FM20 - Crossing on the move

[Fabregas_04]

Someone please tell me there is a way to get wingers/full backs etc to actually put the ball in the box while on the move. I mean through balls are pretty rare and effectively pointless anyway since world class strikers ping it straight at the blind limbless keeper 95% of the time so I'm basically forced to play and win via crosses. My player beats his man or collects a pass that has taken his marker out and instead of putting it across the box while moving they constantly stop, wait, get tackled/thump it off the now recovered defender's legs. Is this curable or has the ME been deliberately knackered to stop teams scoring "excessively"?

[FMunderachiever]

Only thing you can do is "hit early crosses". Doubt itll actually help you achieve what you want though.

[Fabregas_04]

I always thought that involved hitting the crosses from deeper, which like you say isn't what I'm after. 

[Fabregas_04]

They've taken real world stats and made the ME conform to those numbers rather than create a ME that actually represents football and the way it is played and therefore stripped out the ability to be innovative or "new" tactically.

[Experienced Defender]

If you really want to get any meaningful help and advice, then please post a screenshot of your tactic in the first place. The ME works nicely when a tactic is designed sensibly and logically (i.e. without tactical overkill and contradictions). And when your style of play is clearly defined and suits your players.

[Manutd1999]

Of course having a coherant tactic is going to improve results overall, but this specific issue seems to happen regardless of the roles/duties/formation. 

If you watch the whole game its even more noticeable/infuriating. The wide player beats his man, stops, waits for the defender to catch up then thumps a 'cross' straight at him. 

So the question is, is there any combination of TI's/PI's that avoid this? I've not found any yet... 

 

 

[Fabregas_04]

Trying to palm this off as a lack of tactical coherence is ridiculous. Tactical issues or not, footballers are not computers that stop working when the 1s and 0s don't line up properly and if they're in a position to quickly roll the ball across the box to an unmarked team mate for a tap in you would expect him to do it more often than not regardless of whether I've told them to cross from there, or what tempo I'm playing, or if they're to work it into the box blah blah blah. Things happen in football that aren't tactical that should just be common sense, the ME should be able to portray that.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Fabregas_04

[crusadertsar]

2 hours ago, rossenori said:

some tactical genius here is going to tell you that your player doesn't have high enough teamwork attribute. but no matter how high the guy's teamwork/decision/vision attribute is, whether or not he has look for pass rather than attempt to score, the player just shoots 9/10 instead of laying it off for a tap in. 

 

I'm sure @Rashidi or @Experienced Defendercan educate us soon on how it's a none issue. And we Just need the right players and set them up correctly with roles and instructions. Crossing is not really my cup of tea tactically as I find it's a very low success strategy compared to central passing plays. But I'm curious to hear how they would set up an ideal tactic to maximize crosses and make them more successful.

Edited July 11, 2020 by crusadertsar

[Experienced Defender]

3 hours ago, Fabregas_04 said:

Trying to palm this off as a lack of tactical coherence is ridiculous. Tactical issues or not, footballers are not computers that stop working when the 1s and 0s don't line up properly and if they're in a position to quickly roll the ball across the box to an unmarked team mate for a tap in you would expect him to do it more often than not regardless of whether I've told them to cross from there, or what tempo I'm playing, or if they're to work it into the box blah blah blah. Things happen in football that aren't tactical that should just be common sense, the ME should be able to portray that.

 

4 hours ago, rossenori said:

no bro it's your tactic /s

 

3 hours ago, rossenori said:

some tactical genius here is going to tell you that your player doesn't have high enough teamwork attribute. but no matter how high the guy's teamwork/decision/vision attribute is, whether or not he has look for pass rather than attempt to score, the player just shoots 9/10 instead of laying it off for a tap in. 

 

Well, given that the OP insists it's not about the tactic while refusing to even post his tactic for analysis - plus another person (rossoneri) posting in a clearly non-constructive manner - I don't see any reason why this topic should remain in the tactical section of the forum. I am therefore moving it to GD.

In case this continues to develop in a wrong direction, the topic may well end up locked. 

[crusadertsar]

@Experienced Defender So no advise on how to make crossing more viable via instructions or player choices I guess? I'm not saying I believe its a ME issues but thought this could turn into a more constructive thread on helping those who want to use crossing better. 

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by crusadertsar

[Experienced Defender]

40 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

@Experienced Defender So no advise on how to make crossing more viable via instructions or player choices I guess? I'm not saying I believe its a ME issues but thought this could turn into a more constructive thread on helping those who want to use crossing better. 

 

This was not started by the OP as a thread about general tactical principles, but about his complaint over crossing in relation to his/her tactic(s) specifically. But as you can see, the OP does not really want help and advice, so there is no reason for me or anyone to waste our time trying to help someone who obviously just wants to moan about the ME and nothing else. 

[Fabregas_04]

No, if my tactics repeatedly allow my wide players to get behind the defence and into a position to deliver a killer cross then why would this be a tactical problem? The fact the player takes about 3 seconds of standing still to come to the conclusion a cross is indeed the correct course of action is fairly obviously a ME problem.

 

If you're so confident it's a tactical issue please advise on what could possibly be causing such a delay in delivering the obvious ball.

[crusadertsar]

8 minutes ago, Fabregas_04 said:

No, if my tactics repeatedly allow my wide players to get behind the defence and into a position to deliver a killer cross then why would this be a tactical problem? The fact the player takes about 3 seconds of standing still to come to the conclusion a cross is indeed the correct course of action is fairly obviously a ME problem.

 

If you're so confident it's a tactical issue please advise on what could possibly be causing such a delay in delivering the obvious ball.

Just post a pic of your tactic so he can have something to go with otherwise he will just ignore you I'm afraid. If you put your tactic and it seems balanced then we can see what suggestions to make

 

[HUNT3R]

36 minutes ago, rossenori said:

I've posted on this same issue with my tactic with no fix, so have others. 

If you want actual help, it's best to post what you're doing so we have a starting point. Then it's important to state what issues you have. In the last tactic, you've asked the players to reduce their tendency to cross, so they will do just that.

This goes for everyone. Just having a rant blows off some steam, it seems. It doesn't solve anything though. Analyse your setup or if you ask for advice, provide information. That's obviously not to say it's definitely you that's at fault, but at least it can start the problem solving process.

 

[Experienced Defender]

33 minutes ago, rossenori said:

 

 

 

45 minutes ago, rossenori said:

I've posted on this same issue with my tactic with no fix, so have others

You posted it in another person's thread, who actually complained about too much crosses (not too few or being blocked).

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, Fabregas_04 said:

If you're so confident it's a tactical issue

It was not me claiming anything. I did not say it's either a tactical issue or a ME issue. You are the one making bold claims instead.

All I did was asking for a screenshot of your tactic, so that we could analyze it and see if it makes sense and if there are any obvious issues (overkill, contradiction, imbalance etc.). Because only when we make sure your tactic itself is well-designed and suits your players, a discussion about the ME possibly being a problem can come into play. Otherwise, it's nothing more than pointless rant. 

[Experienced Defender]

1 minute ago, rossenori said:

you leave no room for discussing if there is indeed an issue with the ME or coding if every time someone brings up an issue everyones just like "its your tactic"

Did I say it's his/her tactic? Absolutely not. Which I already explained in the comment just above: 

 

1 minute ago, Experienced Defender said:

It was not me claiming anything. I did not say it's either a tactical issue or a ME issue. You are the one making bold claims instead.

All I did was asking for a screenshot of your tactic, so that we could analyze it and see if it makes sense and if there are any obvious issues (overkill, contradiction, imbalance etc.). Because only when we make sure your tactic itself is well-designed and suits your players, a discussion about the ME possibly being a problem can come into play. Otherwise, it's nothing more than pointless rant. 

 

[HUNT3R]

3 minutes ago, rossenori said:

its not about tendency to cross, you're not even reading what the problem is. what can people to do to their tactic to avoid this from happening? crosses not making the past the first defender. 

In the last tactic, you asked your players to cross rarely. Not often. Not sometimes. Rarely. So they are literally going to look for other options before deciding to cross. YOU told them to.

I am talking about this one: 

 

You have no one who crosses often. Everyone is set to sometimes or rarely. Then, through TIs, you ask them to reduce crosses even more. They aren't looking to cross. They have a lowered Tempo to take even more time to look for something other than a cross. That's the very last option, so obviously, when they do cross, there's someone there who may block it.

For the second time - not saying it's purely tactical, but you claim to have posted about having the same issue and in your case with this tactic, it definitely is.

[HUNT3R]

6 minutes ago, rossenori said:

did you even read what i needed help with in that tactic? it's not even a post about crossing.... i had difficulty controlling long shots in that tactic not crossing. 

 

Ok. So to be very specific - where did you post exactly about this issue?

 

 

[HUNT3R]

This happened a couple of seconds ago. Is this what you mean OP?

[HUNT3R]

4 minutes ago, GoldenGoal said:

what are the instructions that are making my fullbacks wait before crossing

They're weighing up options before crossing, obviously. They haven't been told to cross often, just sometimes, so they do look for other options too.

[GoldenGoal]

4 minutos atrás, crusadertsar disse:

Why are you using presets? They are not made for your team. Just a general suggestions and honestly most of them use an overkill of instructions. Don't use any instructions at all. For crossing all you need is positive mentality with fast tempo maybe and a big target man set to attack at the top.

Default presets should be reasonable to use and not have overkill instructions otherwise this is something worth raising as a bug as the game is misleading the player.

This tactic has fast tempo and the fullbacks are still waiting before crossing. The "positive" mentality has no statement about crossing in its description; it actually states that players are more patient with the ball.

2 minutos atrás, HUNT3R disse:

They're weighing up options before crossing, obviously. They haven't been told to cross often, just sometimes, so they do look for other options too.

Ok, looks like I'll have to set every player with cross often otherwise they will just wait for the defender to catch up. I'll do the proposed adjustments and see what happens.

[HUNT3R]

1 minute ago, GoldenGoal said:

Ok, looks like I'll have to set every player with cross often otherwise they will just wait for the defender to catch up. I'll do the proposed adjustments and see what happens.

If you want them to cross more often than they are, it's an idea to ask them to cross more often, yes.

[GoldenGoal]

Agora, HUNT3R disse:

If you want them to cross more often than they are, it's an idea to ask them to cross more often, yes.

It shouldn't have to be this black and white. Players should be intelligent enough to make use of the free space they have and cross the ball before waiting for the opponents to catch up.

[crusadertsar]

6 minutes ago, GoldenGoal said:

Default presets should be reasonable to use and not have overkill instructions otherwise this is something worth raising as a bug as the game is misleading the player.

This tactic has fast tempo and the fullbacks are still waiting before crossing. The "positive" mentality has no statement about crossing in its description; it actually states that players are more patient with the ball.

Ok, looks like I'll have to set every player with cross often otherwise they will just wait for the defender to catch up. I'll do the proposed adjustments and see what happens.

Positive mentality is a good starting point is the reason I suggested. It's not too attacking where you are rushing your attack but at least have your wingers give the rest of your players time to advance before launching the crosses. It's just a suggestion, try with least instructions possible and you might be pleasantly surprised.

Edited July 11, 2020 by crusadertsar

[HUNT3R]

https://i.gyazo.com/3e2df7652061a69707009f41e7e9cedc.gif

The last two matches and the two better chances. It's possible.

The first one, the player is asked to cross less often. He still beats his man and crosses. Again. It is all about the setup. Specifics would help, if you're not bothered to analyse your own issues. Specific instructions, matches, etc.

[GoldenGoal]

6 minutos atrás, HUNT3R disse:

https://i.gyazo.com/3e2df7652061a69707009f41e7e9cedc.gif

The last two matches and the two better chances. It's possible.

The first one, the player is asked to cross less often. He still beats his man and crosses. Again. It is all about the setup. Specifics would help, if you're not bothered to analyse your own issues. Specific instructions, matches, etc.

The situation is usually very different from that one. The player usually receives a through ball and is alone on the whole wing, yet they still wait for the opponent to reach them.

[HUNT3R]

7 minutes ago, GoldenGoal said:

The situation is usually very different from that one. The player usually receives a through ball and is alone on the whole wing, yet they still wait for the opponent to reach them.

I posted 2 situations. But like I said, we need actual context, if we're being specific. I'm trying to ask questions and show examples. If you can be specific, maybe someone can help. Remember, we're in GD. More info certainly helps. The tactical section with as much info as possible, is certainly better. Maybe there are things you can do to make your setup better. Maybe there are some ME issues that prevent certain things. Like I've shown - it IS possible.

[GoldenGoal]

14 minutos atrás, HUNT3R disse:

I posted 2 situations. But like I said, we need actual context, if we're being specific. I'm trying to ask questions and show examples. If you can be specific, maybe someone can help. Remember, we're in GD. More info certainly helps. The tactical section with as much info as possible, is certainly better. Maybe there are things you can do to make your setup better. Maybe there are some ME issues that prevent certain things. Like I've shown - it IS possible.

Hard to go to tactics discussion when players can hardly agree on things. You said I needed to be specific and set "Cross more often" for players to actually cross without waiting while crusaderstar said players are intelligent enough for fullbacks to overlap naturally without needing the overlap instructions.

[HUNT3R]

1 minute ago, GoldenGoal said:

Hard to go to tactics discussion when players can hardly agree on things. You said I needed to be specific and set "Cross more often" for players to actually cross without waiting while crusaderstar said players are intelligent enough for fullbacks to overlap naturally without needing the overlap instructions.

They're obviously different topics though. The overlap instructions affect things like Hold Up Ball for wide players and individual mentality, as well as forward runs. Actually setting Cross more often, asks players to cross more often.

[Experienced Defender]

Since this developed into a discussion about a tactic that is not the OP's, I have to lock the thread (temporarily at least) to prevent it from being completely hijacked.

@GoldenGoal I'll gladly share my thoughts and potential advice on your tactic, but you first have to start a separate thread and not here but in the tactical forum 

[Experienced Defender]

@Fabregas_04 The thread is unlocked again, so the discussion can resume (if you are still interested in solving your issue)