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31 "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn"

About Manutd1999

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  1. Of course having a coherant tactic is going to improve results overall, but this specific issue seems to happen regardless of the roles/duties/formation. If you watch the whole game its even more noticeable/infuriating. The wide player beats his man, stops, waits for the defender to catch up then thumps a 'cross' straight at him. So the question is, is there any combination of TI's/PI's that avoid this? I've not found any yet...
  2. Awesome thread, great work I'm particularly interested in your 'magic' AMC role. I've really struggled to get use an AMC effectively, as have a lot of other people this year. I've tried very similar ideas to you (eg, a 'simple' AM-S with lots of PIs) but found he rarely gets involved in the build up, mainly just passing out wide or backwards Any ideas on what makes this role work well in your system? Attacking mentality (not something I've tried yet)? Other central midfielders tending to move into wide areas to create space?
  3. I think there are a few key things to remember when trying to recreate United 07-09: - The team that played in the 2008 champions league final was NOT representative of the way United typically played. It was a team put together for that specific game - The starting 11 and formation was rotated almost constantly, making it hard to define a particular version to try and re-create - The tactics changed markedly depending on the opposition. At home in premier league, the team usually dominated possession and always looked to attack. Away in Europe, the team was actually quite defensive, mainly playing on the counter There wasn't really a "first-choice" 11 or even a consistent formation, but this is probably the closest you can get? As for the roles and duties, maybe something like this? Trying to get the front 3 to roam freely and swap positions like Rooney/Ronaldo/Tevez did so frequently could be very difficult to re-create. DLF-S PF-A IF-A WM-S RPM-S DM-S CWB-S CD-X CD-C FB-S GK-D One other aspect of that United team which would be fun to try is Ji-Sung Park's role in big games. Essentially have a 'free' player who's only job is to tightly mark and press the oppositions key man. to do this though you would have to sacrifice one of the front-3 from the formation above (for United it was was often Tevez, with Rooney moving to wide left and Giggs/Anderson/Hargreaves playing more centrally)
  4. Maybe that's where a "willingness to obey instructions" attribute would be useful.
  5. Exactly, maybe it's the PPMs that would be better to change, not the roles. In my mind the current PPM setup is unrealistic. Take "Brings ball out of defence" as an example. IMO this should actually be an attribute (either a new one or maybe it's already covered by a combination of existing attributes) which relates to how good a player is at bringing the ball out if asked, and a PI which gives the manager the option of asking him to do it. In FM, the PPMs tend to modify and even override TIs/PIs, which is unrealistic IMO. If Setien says to Pique before the game "look, I know you're good with your feet but today I want you to stay in position" he would, in all likelihood, obey this instruction. In FM unfortunately it's not that clear cut.
  6. 100% agree. The interaction between PIs, TIs, "under the hood" coding, PPMs is unclear. I'm not sure anyone (probably SI included) really understands it I'd have completely generic roles and then some examples to show to implement particular types of role. But crucially these wouldn't have an extra coding, simply an example selection of PIs. This might also be a way of introducing more complex player movements and swaps (e.g. midfielders covering for fullbacks, overlapping centre-backs) which aren't really possible at the moment. Added to that, I'd remove the current PPM setup, which is over-powered and unrealistic IMO. They could be replaced by a combination of attrbutes and expanded PI's. Eg, "dictates tempo" would be replaced with an attribute (i.e. how good he is at dictating the tempo) and there would be PI option to ask him to do it. If you still wanted to bring player personalities into it there could even be a separate "willingness to obey instructions" attribute.
  7. In general I think you are right. It's been acknowledged by SI that the current ME has significant issues with central play. In particular, I too have noted players in the AMC slot (regardless of role) see very little of the ball and if they get it, they pass either out wide or backwards. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's more difficult than it should be, as evidenced by the number of similar threads on here.... However, the issues seem less pronounced if you move your number 10 into midfield (if possible). A player attacking from deep seems to receive more of the ball and in turn is a more creative threat. So instead of a 4-3-1-2, maybe make it a 4-1-3-2, with the AMC moved in it the central CM position? Obviously there maybe other changes as well, I'm sure others will be along to help with the details of your tactic.
  8. +1 It has been aknowledged that in the current ME that the number of set-piece goals is too high but if there's any ways of reducing t I'm all ears
  9. I think it's time for an update on how this is progressing. Based on people's feedback so far (thanks!), here's the tactic I've gone with: SK-D I want the goalkeeper to be comfortable on the ball but not too reckless, especially as my keepers aren't the best with their feet (yet). More De Gea than Neuer CD/BPD - D PI - stay wider 3x defenders, all on defend duty to keep them together as a unit (also enbaling the offside trap). The one with the best passing attrubtes is given more creative freedom as a BPD. The two wide CB's have the 'Stay Wider' option, encouraging them to act as quasi full-backs in the buid-up phase. The PPM 'Brings ball out of defence' is useful for this as well. DLP-D PI - Take more risks The heartbeat of the side, responsible for running the game from deep. Think Xavi/Scholes/Pirlo etc. SV-S A deeper lying box-to-box midfilder, not doing anything flashy but always in the right place at the right time. Florentio Luis is perfect for this role with his positioning and stamina. CM-A PI - take more risks, dribble more This is the role I had most trouble with. I tried lots options in the AMC position (TRQ/AP/AM) but none had much impact. I suspect this is at least partly due to the ME issues with central play. However, I found a CM-A works better. The deeper starting position means the player sees more of the ball, with lots of PIs to make him more of a creator. WM-S PI - hold position, cross more often The more defensive wide player. I imagine this role to be like Beckham, sitting deep and crossing or switching play with long passes. I need to develop the right player for this though IW-S PI - cross less A more attacking winger. Playing a left-footer as an IW adds great variety - sometimes he cuts inside, sometimes he stays wide. 'Cross less' is used to try and encourage cut-backs and passes in the final third. CF-S The more skillful striker but not exclusively a creator. Vinicius has scored quite a few goals in this role, linking well with the PF-A PF-A A fairly simple role. An out-and-out striker when we have the ball, but hard-working out-of-possession. The tactic is still a work in progress but it's going quite well so far. We tend to dominate possession at home and get around 50% away, with a nice variety of counter-attack and "tiki-taka" goals. Some issues I've noticed: - The CB's are slightly too conservative and often needlessly pass back to the goalkeeper, are there any ways to reduce this? - The CM-A is better now but still not the Iniesta type player I'm looking for. Any ideas how to improve this role? - I'm using 'Defend Wider' to try and counter-act our obvious vunerability on the flanks. Is this appropriate or best left to the default setting? - Any tips on how to adapt for bigger games, especially in Europe? I'm thinking of developing a second, more defensive tactic with reduced defensive line/line of engagement. Essentially the same but more disciplined and counter-attack focused. Playing with Benfica, I've managed to put together an exciting array of young talent. Holding onto the best players is going to be a challenge (Man City are already circling Dias....), but the potential is huge: Dias - already one of the best CB's in the game and club captain. Whether I can hold onto him for long though remains to be seen..... Luis - the perfect SV if he can improve his passing a bit. Hopefully I can keep him for a few more years Tonali - the new Pirlo. A club record signing but hopefully worth the money Grimaldo - a good combination of defensive, attacking and mental attributes makes him a great all-rounder on the left wing Almada - lots of threads about this guy already. Hopefully I can get the CM-A role working properly so he can shine. I also signed David Silva - not exactly young but I couldn't resist when he was available on a free(!) transfer from City. The perfect tutor for Almada and co. Edouard - excellent work rate and finishing make him a good fit for the PF role Arezo - joining in the next transfer window, the plan is to develop him for the CF role alongside Edouard
  10. I was hoping the DLF-A would be the main goal threat. What would you recommend as a runner/scorer, maybe a PF-A? Or change it to DLF-S --- CF-A TRQ-A
  11. Maybe it is better to remove them, I will test it. Generally though, I imagine WBIB more as a deterrent against long shots, not necessarily as the opposite to counter-attacking This sounds good. Maybe less is more. Again, I'll try it and see Serious danger of thread creep here, but most of the time I think Ronaldo was an IF-S on the right-wing. Yes he scored a lot of goals but for Man Utd he was still primarily a wide player and actually provided a lot of assists. Tevez was maybe a CF-S and Rooney a DLF, but they switched positions regularly. The exception to this is in big away games, where Tevez was often sacrificed and Ronaldo played as the main striker. This allowed Park to come into midfield, with Rooney playing on the left.
  12. We have a lot of threads about trying to create 'possession', 'gegenpress' or 'counter attacking' football, but I'm looking for some advice as to how to start to put together more of a hybrid system. Essentially I want my team to counter-attack if the opportunity is there, but recycle possession if there's no space or when starting from a goal-kick. Real-life examples (only the style, not necessarily the formation/roles) would be Man Utd 2007/08, Barcelona's 'MSN' in 2015, maybe even England at the 2018 WC and the current Liverpool side. What kind of team instructions would suit this style? At the moment I'm thinking of combining typical 'possession' TI's (shorter passing, lower tempo) with the counter-attack and pass into space instructions to create variety. Positive mentality Shorter passing Counter Higher defensive line Lower tempo More urgent pressing Pass into space Play out of defence Work ball into the box Roles and duties are still a work in progress. I'm currently thinking about a 3-5-2 or 3-4-3 system with a mobile, fluid front 3 (like Barca's 'MSN' or Rooney/Ronaldo/Tevez), maybe something like this: DLF-A CF-S TRQ-A WM-S WM-S DLP-D BWM-S CD-D CD-D BPD-D SK-D Any advice is much appreciated
  13. I've found a BPD played in a back 3 with the 'Brings ball out of defence' trait will take the ball into midfield if there is sufficient space and can even get into the box occasionally. Not truly overlapping but quite close. Rashidi has a video on this I think. Another option is to move the outside 'centre-backs' into the full-back position. So the defence lines up: FB -------- CD --------- FB Obviously you need defensive midfielders to protect the central areas but it can work quite well against weaker sides.
  14. This is interesting, it's inspired me to do some tests for myself! Maybe something like this for the TIs, I'll see how it goes: - Positive mentality - Much shorter passing - Much lower tempo - WBIB - Play out of defence - Pass into space - Be more expressive "Conventional" wisdom on these forums would say that much lower tempo + much shorter passing is "tactical overkill" but I agree that this probably best describes how tiki-taka is actually played. The key might be having good enough players with exceptional vision/passing ability to unlock defences. I doubt this would work with poor or even average sides. Think of the difference between Spain 2010 and Spain 2018. Both teams played a similar style, but without the once-in-a-generation midfield talents of Xavi/Iniesta et al. the 2018 side lacked the creativity to score enough goals against defensive sides (e.g. Spain v Russia).
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