Syrup & Honey - A tactical discussion

[Cleon]

I actually did use a sweeper for a while, cant remember why I changed though. I think its because I actually didn't have a sweeper in my squad and little things like that bug me

I'm surprised noone else has picked up on the arrows, as they do actually give you other options

[lam]

Hi,

I have played three games without OI's.

THe first one was a little worrying as i went 2-0 down by the first half, i then checked what was happening and it turns out that i had accidentaly put a striker as my central defender and the player that made two assists opposite number was injured (i was watchin stats to much and not the game). i rememedied that and won 3-2.

The other games were also clearly won by myself, which is not a surprise as this tactic has been working well anyway, but the goals were scored by my striker and wingers, which was something that i couldnt get to happen.

THerefore i would recomend highly that you do not issue OI's !!!!

The only worry with this is that when you look at the stats throughout the game, there are players where you think you should man mark and close down. I choose not to in these three games and won well. I will try this next time and see what happens.

Cleon - in relation to the above statement, can you please advise that if you generally do not employ OI's, how do you then deal with a player that is clearly running havoc?

Would you then consider an OI on him, or would you ensure that his opposite number is more defencive?

cheers

Lee

[Cleon]

You'll probably think I'm speaking crap here, but honestly if someone is running havoc I tend to leave them. I stick to my own game plan as much as I can because I know changing something ever so slightly changes the way I play. So id rather stick to my guns and have a bit of ye olde faith

Although sometimes I may manmark if my players are good enough and someone is having a blinder against me. But that is very rare.

[lam]

It is interesting how the game works...... for so long, we all (well ... not all, but most) have been trying to counter the AI. But it seems that this will work well.

I obviously had a problem with my striker playing in defence and with my neutral MC, but one that was fixed, their playmaker was out of the game with no specific instructions against him.

In the two other games that i played, there was no one single player that had an outstanding game, therefore i was unable to monitor it.

However, i am sure at some point this will happen and then i can see what happens when i do nothing. but judging by the sounds of it, it doesnt seem to hurt you to much!!!

My player ratings are still a little lower than what you alluded to with your players..... no doubt i have to tweak slightly. But i am happy to stick with it the way it is right now until i get more familiar with it.

Cheers

[Yahaii]

Just watched your pkm against Chelsea, and im just wondering is this the same game I play cause your striker Stancu is not marked what so ever, Alex seems to man mark the winger and Terry the other one. Im not seeing any of this in my game the AI always play a barrow on one mc and my striker dosent get any room to move in and im finding it very hard to creat chances.

Is this standard in your game, that your striker is unmarked like that? If so the AI managers in EPL must be very crappy...

[Cleon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Yahaii:

Just watched your pkm against Chelsea, and im just wondering is this the same game I play cause your striker Stancu is not marked what so ever, Alex seems to man mark the winger and Terry the other one. Im not seeing any of this in my game the AI always play a barrow on one mc and my striker dosent get any room to move in and im finding it very hard to creat chances.

Is this standard in your game, that your striker is unmarked like that? If so the AI managers in EPL must be very crappy... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its same regardless of league or who manager is. If your not getting this, then its a fault in your set up.

[Smoothiebaloo]

Cleon.. You said you gave specific players, specific tweakings because of their skills.. Who are these players that you have made this tactic for?

[eltjon]

cleon, can you post your tactic please ?!?!

[Cleon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Smoothiebaloo:

Cleon.. You said you gave specific players, specific tweakings because of their skills.. Who are these players that you have made this tactic for? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

All of them.

elton john - no

[Uncle_Sam]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

You'll probably think I'm speaking crap here, but honestly if someone is running havoc I tend to leave them. I stick to my own game plan as much as I can because I know changing something ever so slightly changes the way I play. So id rather stick to my guns and have a bit of ye olde faith

Although sometimes I may manmark if my players are good enough and someone is having a blinder against me. But that is very rare. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>It's interesting you say you man mark if your players are good enough, I read in the manual that man marking is easier for the players. Do you find this to be inaccurate?

[onimkron]

I started a game with Roma, and have been using this framework as it's a nice change from the 442 diamond I always use. The team itself adapts well with the formation, as they have wing-backs and wingers with great attacking stats, and Esposito who's good enough to cross the ball in. Plus, an awesome striker

I like the football the team is playing, as most of the time my wing-backs are able to cross the ball in to a packed penalty area. Being able to play 3 large CB's has been good for defending set pieces as well. I'd like to try and get my midfield players more into the game though (one attacking, one slightly defending). I think I've set them both to 'through balls = often'.

Granted, Roma already has a pretty strong side at the start, so I kind of expected them to do well in the league anyway, but I love the way they're playing at the moment.

[eltjon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Smoothiebaloo:

Cleon.. You said you gave specific players, specific tweakings because of their skills.. Who are these players that you have made this tactic for? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

All of them.

elton john - no </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

elton john is your brother....I am not insulted you!!

[lam]

Cleon,

In relation to Yahaii's comment, do you find that your striker is not marked well in most games?

Although this tactic is winning for me, i find that the FB's pick up my wings and one of the two DC's pick up my striker. its a very rare case that he is not marked !

Lee

[Cleon]

Whats his OTB stat?

[lam]

there are three that i use. one has 20 and the other two have 17.

[lam]

Im assuming,you meant my striker?

[Dirty_ACE]

I must be blind as I can't find the pkm of the Chelsea game. I've looked through the entire thread twice and couldn't find it. Any help?

[lam]

DA,

The link was in another post, which gave us a small insight into this tactic prior to Cleon starting this post.

This is the link to the file:

http://files.filefront.com/Sheff+Utd+v+Chelsearar/;9995424;/fileinfo.html

This is the link to the post (which is also worth reading)

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1519717/m/1882093493

Lee

[Smoothiebaloo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Smoothiebaloo:

Cleon.. You said you gave specific players, specific tweakings because of their skills.. Who are these players that you have made this tactic for? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

All of them.

elton john - no </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who is the player you made the tactic for to play (L)DC?

Who is the player you made the tactic for to play ©DC?

Who is the player you made the tactic for to play ®DC? etc etc etc

[Cleon]

I get the best out of every single player, whats hard to understand? thats why most settings are different. It was set up for all 11 players...

[bluenose1]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Yahaii:

Just watched your pkm against Chelsea, and im just wondering is this the same game I play cause your striker Stancu is not marked what so ever, Alex seems to man mark the winger and Terry the other one. Im not seeing any of this in my game the AI always play a barrow on one mc and my striker dosent get any room to move in and im finding it very hard to creat chances.

Is this standard in your game, that your striker is unmarked like that? If so the AI managers in EPL must be very crappy... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its same regardless of league or who manager is. If your not getting this, then its a fault in your set up. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is because Avram Grant likes his centre backs to man mark (if you look at his profile his preferred marking system is 'man')

so when the wingers adopt STright and STleft positions the STcentre is left free as the two CBs pick up the wingers - this the main advantage to using this three pronged attack - the ST will be left wide open in space.

however when your playing against a manager who uses Zonal marking it becomes harder to exploit the defenders in the same way

it still happens its just less obvious as when you are facing two CBS who man mark

[LorDJm]

Cleon claims that every opposition he plays the defenders man mark his wingers though

[Smoothiebaloo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

I get the best out of every single player, whats hard to understand? thats why most settings are different. It was set up for all 11 players... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who are these players?

Who is your (L)DC, ©DC, ®DC etc etc etc?

[Cleon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Smoothiebaloo:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

I get the best out of every single player, whats hard to understand? thats why most settings are different. It was set up for all 11 players... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who are these players?

Who is your (L)DC, ©DC, ®DC etc etc etc? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Omg look at the screenshots I list the team, and you can work out from that who the first team is. Seriously, whats it matter? I've told everything thats needed to know. I dont want this thread to turn into a player one, as id be a hypocrite then as I have a go at people for posting too much about players.

[kolobok]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Omg look at the screenshots I list the team, and you can work out from that who the first team is. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To be fair, the screenshot with teamstats does not load up at least on my PC, though I remeber seeing it yesterday. Anyway, you are right - it does not matter because each user has differnt squad and should figure out strengths and weaknesses from there.

[lam]

Cleon,

Where was your post that shows your players stats? I thought it was in this post, but i can not find it, i also check the 'riding your luck' post and its not there either.

I think it would be something uesfull to post here for everyone. I know i wouldnt mind comparing like for like.

Cheers

[lam]

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/5834/doingwell3pi9.jpg' alt='doingwell3pi9.jpg'>

As you can see, i am doing well with this tactic.

Thought i would post just so people can see how well it works.

Lee

[lam]

sorry, re-sized to the wrong size.

that last one shows that i am unbeaten in 21 EPL games.

Lee

[eltjon]

Someone can post tactics please?

[lam]

Eltjon,

The tactics are all on the original screen.

Can you see the pictures?

The only things that are not on there are tempo, DL, TW and width.

Set these to highest normal to start (apart from TW) then adjust accordingly in game.

Lee

[Smoothiebaloo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

Omg look at the screenshots I list the team, and you can work out from that who the first team is. Seriously, whats it matter? I've told everything thats needed to know. I dont want this thread to turn into a player one, as id be a hypocrite then as I have a go at people for posting too much about players. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am just wondering how you get the best out of your players. But I don't know who the players are. From your reaction(s) I will stop asking about this, as I don't want to get myself carded because of it.

Hmmmm.. Good luck making tactics

[eltjon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lam:

Eltjon,

The tactics are all on the original screen.

Can you see the pictures?

The only things that are not on there are tempo, DL, TW and width.

Set these to highest normal to start (apart from TW) then adjust accordingly in game.

Lee </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is expensive car, but with that SKIN unable to understand how best to set them ... is a simple request, I do not think I asked ver much, it's just that I can not understand the exact settings. There is nothing post .... sorry if I disturbed

(google traducer)

thank you for the answer lam

[Dirty_ACE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lam:

DA,

The link was in another post, which gave us a small insight into this tactic prior to Cleon starting this post.

This is the link to the file:

http://files.filefront.com/Sheff+Utd+v+Chelsearar/;9995424;/fileinfo.html

This is the link to the post (which is also worth reading)

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1519717/m/1882093493

Lee </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks lam. Took a look at the match. Pretty impressive Cleon. On a different day you could have lost big but at the same time you could have won even bigger had Stancu converted at least half of his chances.

You've inspired me to create my own version of a tactic with a very similar shape. The only exceptions in mine is that I'm using fullbacks with shor farrows, a DMC instead of a third CB, and one of my CMs has a short curved in farrow to go right behind the lone ST. I think this makes it a bit more aggressive which I should be able to pull off considering I'm playing with a big club.

A couple questions though:

1. You mention that the tactic is narrow in because you have wingers that constantly cut in instead of stretching out the opposition. However, in the settings the width is on the highest notch of normal. Am I missing something here? Doesn't sound like it's narrow really.

2. I really like how you set up your right side of the team different from your left side. I understand you did this because of the type of players you have but is there more to this approach? I imagine this kind of set up unbalances the play for the opposition. However, what if you had much better players. Lets say both of your fullbacks were capable of going forward equally well. In that case would you recommend setting up your team in a matter that enables both FBs to attack and then setting up the wingers accordingly to accommodate the FBs?

[Cleon]

1) I didnt list any team instructions as far as I recall. But I do play narrow.

2) Id love to have 2 attacking wingbacks as well as my wingers. The stronger the team, the more attacking you can be

[Cleon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Smoothiebaloo:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

Omg look at the screenshots I list the team, and you can work out from that who the first team is. Seriously, whats it matter? I've told everything thats needed to know. I dont want this thread to turn into a player one, as id be a hypocrite then as I have a go at people for posting too much about players. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am just wondering how you get the best out of your players. But I don't know who the players are. From your reaction(s) I will stop asking about this, as I don't want to get myself carded because of it.

Hmmmm.. Good luck making tactics </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did post the link above but its not working atm, although it was when I created the post. So my humble apoligies for being abrupt, I didnt know the link was down. So please forgive my ignorance

I'll try and reupload over the weekend

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Someone can post tactics please? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I dont want that happening, I want to create discussion.

Smoothiebaloo again my apoligies, I feel quite bad now

[Cleon]

In fact the stats are working again, imageshack must have been playing up scroll back to first page and its the 6th post down

[Dirty_ACE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

1) I didnt list any team instructions as far as I recall. But I do play narrow.

2) Id love to have 2 attacking wingbacks as well as my wingers. The stronger the team, the more attacking you can be </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're right, you didn't mention team instructions. It was someone else who said something. Sorry for misunderstanding. Is it possible to play wider with success using this kind of formation?

I did set up my team in a more aggressive style, so both of my FBs venture forward. So far some great success. Just beat Chelsea 6-2 in Community Shield. What I've also noticed is that having mixed long shots on the striker is better then not having any. Even though he's not great at them he puts the ball away much better because the keeper will often come out to meet him 1-on-1 and he'll just lob him or shoot it from 15-20 yards with some curve on the ball. In fact before I did this I noticed him running a bit too much with the ball and it would get taken away by the GK. I think I a similar thing happen to Stancu in your pkm game vs Chelsea.

[lam]

It was me that mentioned the normal/wide play. Apologies for that I misinterpreted a post.

This may very well explain why i can not get my wingers and striker doing as well as Cleon has.

My team are strong so they make up the difference in goals, but it would be nice to replicate. I will narrow it up and see what happens.

I agree with the comment on about 'the stronger your team, the more attacking you can be' and i think that sometimes if you are not you are inviting trouble.

I have two bogie teams (Portsmouth and Reading), both of whom with the standard settings i can not seem to win. I always go 2-0 down and then go very attacking and come back to a 2-2 all draw.

I just played Reading now and added two clicks in mentality to all players bar DC's and keeper and i won 3-0 and controled the play.

I will over the course of the next few games slowly add 1 click every 2 games or so (dependant on team playing) and see what that results in.

Lee

[Dirty_ACE]

You and me are in the same boat lam. I'm having trouble not necessarily replicating but trying to even somewhat closely resemble the kind of play Cleon has described his team to be doing.

Since I'm playing with Arsenal I have two very good fullbacks, so both are going forward often and as a result I set up the AML and AMR as more like strikers than wingers, however, I can't seem to get any kind of linking between them and the lone striker or with the rest of the midfield. I'm watching all matches in full but on higher speed and what I'm observing is that my team is often playing a very ugly style. Half the time there are long passes from CBs or fullbacks that the attackers just can't control or just let the ball bounce off of them or they do get the ball and just stand there thinking while a player from the other team runs up to them and takes the ball away. I know it has something to do with creative freedom and mentality which I've tried to tweak but to no avail, they still do it and so there's barely any kind of build up or fluid play going on.

I feel kind of stupid for having so much trouble trying to get a team as talented as Arsenal to play well.

[lam]

Cleon,

I hope you do not mind me posting the following, but i think people are struggling with some of the pictures.

I want to try and help as i love this tactic. Its the best i have played so far. It has all the key positions that i love and they do what i want them to do. I can not beleive that this does not have as many posts as it should. Probably because there is no downloadable tactic (which i agree with personally)

Below are the click settings for the players. Please note that the middle is considered 11 so start in the middle and then click left or right accordingly.

DC:

Mentality : 5

Creative : 1

Passing : 15 (although i have lowered)

Closing D : 5

F Runs : Rare

RWB : Rare

Long Shot : Rare

TTB's : Rare

Cross B : Rare

Crs from : Deep

Cross Aim : Mixed

Marking : Zonal (I use Man)

Tight M : No

WBR (Offensive One)

Mentality : 14

Creative : 5

Passing : 7

Closing D : 11

F Runs : Often

RWB : Often

Long Shot : Rare

TTB's : Rare

Cross B : Often

Crs from : Byline (I use Mixed)

Cross Aim : Mixed

Marking : Man

Tight M : Yes

WBL (Defensive One)

Mentality : 11

Creative : 5

Passing : 10 (i think)

Closing D : 11

F Runs : Mixed

RWB : Mixed

Long Shot : Rare

TTB's : Rare

Cross B : Rare (I use mixed)

Crs from : Mixed

Cross Aim : Mixed

Marking : Man

Tight M : Yes

MCR (attacking one)

Mentality : 15

Creative : 14

Passing : 11

Closing D : 13

F Runs : Often

RWB : Often

Long Shot : Mixed

TTB's : Often

Cross B : Rare

Crs from : Mixed

Cross Aim : Mixed

Marking : Zone

Tight M : No

MCL (Nuetral one/your choice)

Mentality : 12

Creative : 10

Passing : 18

Closing D : 14

F Runs : Mixed

RWB : Mixed

Long Shot : Mixed

TTB's : Often

Cross B : Rare

Crs from : Mixed

Cross Aim : Mixed

Marking : Zone

Tight M : No

Wing R (Scoring one)

Mentality : 15

Creative : 13

Passing : 11

Closing D : 15

F Runs : Often

RWB : Often

Long Shot : Rare

TTB's : Rare

Cross B : Rare

Crs from : Byline

Cross Aim : Mixed

Marking : Zone

Tight M : No

Wing L (Crossing/Assist)

Mentality : 14

Creative : 11

Passing : 11

Closing D : 15

F Runs : Often

RWB : Often

Long Shot : Rare

TTB's : Rare

Cross B : Often

Crs from : Byline

Cross Aim : Mixed

Marking : Zone

Tight M : No

FC

Mentality : 20

Creative : 7

Passing : 7

Closing D : 12/13

F Runs : Mixed

RWB : Mixed

Long Shot : Rare

TTB's : Rare

Cross B : Rare

Crs from : Deep

Cross Aim : Mixed

Marking : Zone

Tight M : No

I missed out tackling. DC's, WB's and MC(Neutral) on normal. MCA, Wing, FC on soft.

I'll take the liberty here of saying (and again, hoping i do not offend Cleon), but as many questions as i have asked, i finally got the point on page 2 of this thread. Its about your players. These settings are the way they are as it gets his players to do what they want within their abilities.

Have a look at the settings before you change them, have a look at you players and see if they can do what you have told them to do.

Your right WB cant run with ball, well do not tell him to do so.

Your Right wing has very low finishing but good crossing, consider change the method of attack from left wing to right wing..... if you do this, then consider the WB's. The left one is more defensive therefore should not clash with your left wing, however if your left wing is now running in to score goals, will that create a to larger gap between them.

As Cleon stated, this tactic was designed to get the best out of each player, which is why he has been reluctant to comment on the setup (and probably why i will now be in his bad books for posting the above0.

The above are the default start. I team is close to this now, but has different clicks here and there. I am unbeaten in 24 EPL games.

Lee

[Dirty_ACE]

Thanks for posting your setup Lee. I think I'll have to go back and look again at my players and perhaps re-do some of their instructions.

[lam]

DA,

Please note that this is not 'my' setup. This is Cleons original setup (or very close to it).

Mine is slightly diffferent (not alot though), which is where, i beleive, Cleon is coming from.

THis is 'his' setup, you will need your own. Look at your players and see if this works with them or if you can get more out of them.

In relation to your post before my post.

Some games my DC's hit 90% passing, when this is the case i leave them well alone. In other games I am lucky if i get 50% from them. One thing i find is that this then determines my overall possession in the game. However, as Cleon stated, you need to tweak in game. Generally i will lower their passing to mixed (11) and this solves the issues, but i guess there are other tihings you could try.

As recently pointed out by Cleon he plays narrow. Ensure you are trying this.

I am often tempted to make my left WB the same as my right as i have two strong ones. However, as mentioned in a previous post this will throw the balance of the team out. In my opinion, you have done the right thing by changing your WBL to attacking and moving your Wing L to a more of a striker, however, the wing L is key to getting good balls into the box, you may have now lost that and unless you have good headers they may not get onto the cross from your WBL. I find that my WingL doesnt always put crosses in, he will play good balls into the box on the floor also.

As Cleon stated recently and i have slowly discovered (to slowly if you ask me!!!!), if you have a strong team, you CAN go more attacking. I have found however, that you NEED to go more attacking, as indicated in one of my previous posts.

I think the DL is a key point here and generally speaking i stick with Cleons setup, highest normal. But again, ask Cleon stated, you need to adjust in game too. If i find that they are getting nowhere near my box with long balls or through balls then i will slowly increase this until one or two balls get through or round the defence and then at that point i pull it back one notch. This can often lead to being two clicks into 'push up' with weak or slow teams. A general guide to this is to look at the pace and OTB of the striker, but also check their wingers especially so if they play them in the AML or AMR position.

Equally so, knowing when to pull it back a little is important. However, i rarely go lower than Mid Normal (11).

I do not beleive that this formation relies on 'build up play'. This formation/tactic utilises a fast direct attack to players that are moving around alot and pulling the oppo defence out of positon. Its certainly not pretty. I rarely see the slow build up play from DC to MCD to MCA who then runs a little opening a gap to the winger who then puts a lovely cross to the far post to the other winger when then taps it down to my FC who taps it in.........

I have yet to try it with a narrow setup which i am now going to do, ill play a few games and report back on whats happening with the front three setup.

Cleon - if you have managed to read this far and not got bored, I still can not see the stats post. I thought i was right having seen it at some point and was glad that you mentioned the link was down as i thought i was going mad !!! Any chance of posting another?

Lee

[lam]

After all of that. I take back my last statement about mentality.

I used teh standard setup and was running the game so i added just one click to all players bar the DC's. I conceded two goals in 20 mins and had just one shot on goal. I was already 3-0 up, so this wasnt a major issue, but i then reverted back to the standard mentality (ie one click back) and scored a further three goals and they had no more attempts.

So.... i have no idea how to read this, apart from as Cleon said. you 'CAN' be more attacking. Just be carefull when you choose to be !!!!

[nick1408]

as i have a sweeper in my squad i have chosen for away games to pull the middle def into a sweeper possie with a farrow into his old position. seems to be working well for me

[nick1408]

i do have a question. is it best to set your ground to narrow since you play narrow or set it to wide then play narrow to leave space around you?

[lam]

was wondering the same myself. I do not know the answer to this. I guess we'll have to wait for someone that does.

Lee

[eltjon]

ok boys, i understand all, but i can't understand the Team Instruction....can you help me?!

[Ezzz]

Sorry if this question isn't exactly about your formation.

As you are setting individual instructions according to your players(If I understood it correctly).

My question is how do you set the individual passing? Do you use their passing ability?(Decision making,...)

Do you look at the passing stats after the game to determine if the settings are correct? Lets say a player(a MC) is getting passing stats of 15 completed/35 made passes.

Now if the formation gives about 3 free players to pass to (close to him). Would you give the player shorter passing?

And if the only way to pass to players(because the teammates are too far) is direct(long) pass. Would you make the passing more direct? Or would you change the other teammates instructions to give the passer more options?

Thank you.

[Dirty_ACE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lam:

After all of that. I take back my last statement about mentality.

I used teh standard setup and was running the game so i added just one click to all players bar the DC's. I conceded two goals in 20 mins and had just one shot on goal. I was already 3-0 up, so this wasnt a major issue, but i then reverted back to the standard mentality (ie one click back) and scored a further three goals and they had no more attempts.

So.... i have no idea how to read this, apart from as Cleon said. you 'CAN' be more attacking. Just be carefull when you choose to be !!!!

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I imagine you can definitely play more aggressively at home, especially if you're a top team or near top. I just did that against Middlesbrough. I increased the mentality for all my players (except the GK) by 2 notches and ran out 6-0 winners. However, I think that if you do play more attacking you are more likely to give the ball away since you're pushing it up the field more. So if you have the players that can distribute and hold the bold without loosing it then being more aggressive should work for you. This is just my thinking of it though. Maybe Cleon can confirm this.

[lam]

Okay,

let me try and help here, please note however, i am far from an expert and this is about everyones success. Cleon is the expert here and i am sure he will be back at some point to post.

Eltjon.

What is it you do not understand about the team instructions. If you can be a little more specific i might be able to advise.

Ezzz.

The passing settings (IMO) have been setup taking into account both the formation and the players. Most of the players have passing within the mixed range, which actualy makes both of your comments correct. It is my understanding that when playing around the mixed range, you are relying on the players decision making abilities to pick out a pass. This assumption would lead to possibly giving specific instructions to your players and give them a very low 'creative freedom'.

When setting passing, you need to take into account what it is you want your tactic/formation to do. In this particular case the formation and tactic is a fast attacking one, therefore the ball is required to be with the front line promptly, therefore everyone, although capable, does not have short passing. I have tried this and whilst it can work, it does not work as well as the current setup. However, as Cleon has mentioned numerous times, this works for HIS team. I am lucky as it seems to work for mine to. But it will not work for everyone.

I beleive i am correct in this next point (someone with good knowledge will correct me if i am wrong), Direct passing is not necessarily long ball passing or hoofing it upfield. It is a style of play thats gets the ball from wherever it is on the pitch to the front line in the most direct root. This can obviously result in long balls and frequently does so, however you should also see passing through the midfield, but ultimately i beleive you will see perhaps 3 or 4 passes from defence through to the striker.

I would hazard a guess at this stage that your question in relation to low passing %'age is based on your DC's. My DC's can have a terrible passing game and as i mentioned in a previous post, this will then dictate my overall possession. I beleive that with this formation, the defence (at least mine works this way) is extreamly good at disposessing the opposition. If they do this and then hoof it upfield, you simply give possession away time and time again. When this happens i will normaly lower their passing to normal (11) and this increases the teams possession. You will notice less long balls to your striker, and therefore less of a supply. However, the supply was not reliable therefore not much use anyway. the extra possession normally results in more goals.

Another thing you can try with your defence (assuming that this is still the problem) is to have a decent DC that can pass. I have this player as the central DC as for me it seems that he gets most of the passes.

Stats are important, but it does not always mean that the player who's passing % is low is at fault. Your formation may not have enough players around for him to pass to. Your tempo may be to fast, therefore not allowing players to move into open positions to receive the ball. Your tempo may be to slow, resulting in the player being closed down constantly and therefore making rushed passes. You PI's could have been set up for your great MCA, yet he is on the bench (because he has scored 20 goals in 40 straight appearances and you selfishly havnt given him one game off!!!!) and your youth player is now trying to work to instructions that your world class player can just about pull off.

As you can see there are many many reasons why the passing can be low and ironically they are not all related to the passing.

DA.

I think you are right here, i just checked back and the game where i turned it all up was an away game ..... the phrase 'schoolboy error' springs to mind. i will try lifting it again the next time i have a fairly easy home game.

I hope that helps somewhat. As i said, i am no expert. i am just reporting on what i see happening. Strangely this post has allowed me to analyse the game alot closer that what i was able to previously.

Lee