Teaser Thread No 1: Managerial Type and Mentality Systems

[Mitja]

-I would tend to give a player with a free role a higer creative freedom setting, if that's what you mean.

-Try it and see. To me, that would be far too many. I would use 4 maximum, but I've not tried it. So, please, try it and come back with your findings.

-The 4-4-2 tactics we have all have a forward who drops back. In the other tactics we created the same applies. There is an FCd and an FCa. The FCd will drop back and play "in the hole", while the attacking player looks to go on ahead of him.

The FCd is a link player. When you get the tactics, you'll see what I mean. We'll also be covering player roles in future installments.

- well yes that's logical- to give him more CF.

but that wasn't my question, i was thinking does the free role attribute (every player has/had it, but we don't see it) metter (influences how well he will play as FR) when we assign that player. was the free role attribute removed maybe? it would be a good thing to do imo.

- i will try using free role with both wingers, both strikers and MCa in my attacking tactic (442)

- i'm experimenting (sort of) with 4411. here's my mentality system for standard tactic (tweaked global):

GK: 10

DC: 10

FB: 12

CMd: 10

CMa: 12

Win: 12

AM: 14

FC: 12

what kind of manager this set-up makes me?

[wwfan]

It's close to our Lippi system. We're actually hoping that, post-release, people will be inspired to develop their own mentality systems and name/model them after a well-know manager.

Who do you think it resembles?

[Golden_Team]

Mitja

What is yours instruction for MCa? and MCd?

FWR-often or mixed? and CF? Normal or high?

[Mitja]

It's close to our Lippi system. We're actually hoping that, post-release, people will be inspired to develop their own mentality systems and name/model them after a well-know manager.

Who do you think it resembles?

well...ehmmm, me!!

maybe ferguson, he likes his full-backs to be very high up, with wingers having the freedom to roam. also scholes and carrick (when playing together) look to me as quite equal in their roles (i might be wrong) - in FM terms they would both be on mixed forward runs. rooney playing in the hole, but i'm not sure if his mentality should be tweaked, with free role of course and high CrFr.

maybe this set-up would represent it better:

Gk: 10

DC: 10

FB: 14

MC: 10

Wi: 14

Fd: 10

Fa: 12

[Mitja]

Mitja

What is yours instruction for MCa? and MCd?

FWR-often or mixed? and CF? Normal or high?

MCa: team, FWR often in attacking tactics, mixed in standard

Mcd: team-2, hold position

but i didn't play anything nearly enough to take me seriously.

i'm still dwelling if i should start with global mentality system and tweak from there or to start with tweaked one. i guess i'll go with global.

[Millie]

but that wasn't my question, i was thinking does the free role attribute (every player has/had it, but we don't see it) metter (influences how well he will play as FR) when we assign that player. was the free role attribute removed maybe? it would be a good thing to do imo.

I don't use the editors or scout tools so I have no idea who has a good rating for it or not. One would assume, if it's still in the game, that it would make a difference. But since I can't see it (and don't want to see it ) all of our tactics are based on what the game allows you to see.

I'm sure it's best to give FRs to the players who can play it well - that makes logical sense. But, like I say, I've not done any experiments on it whatsoever because I've never gone looking for it.

[moj]

This is pathetic, can someone please upload these on a site like sendspace.com or megaupload.com, I don't want to register at FM-Britain.

[afeckingname]

This is pathetic, can someone please upload these on a site like sendspace.com or megaupload.com, I don't want to register at FM-Britain.

I dont really feel comfortable uploading it without permission from wwfan or millie

[tomsaxton]

Which striker drops deep in this tactic?

[El_Cid]

Which striker drops deep in this tactic?

those are one striker tactics, i believe

[Mitja]

Which striker drops deep in this tactic?

the one with less forward runs set.

[tomsaxton]

they're both mixed

[Finknottle]

wwfan/Millie, I am of the Maurinho persuasion. I wish to use the mentalities example , above, for my defensive tactic. My standard and attacking mentalities will be one or two clicks higher than the defensive one, for each tactic. I am thinking in terms of a global system for players creative freedom and using the highest click of "little" for all three tactic sets. Would this work or would it be a non starter, in your opinion, or anyone else's for that matter. Kind regards.

[Rob_]

Enjoyed the read but too bad it comes down to the following:

GK: 7

DCd: 6

DC: 8

FB: 10

MCd: 9

ML/R: 11

MCa: 12

FC: 13

Love the theory and the discussions but not the numbers.

Looking forward to creating a tactic for Tottenham when I get the game as I only briefly touched the demo. The idea of giving more freedom to the players when better quality comes in as the game progresses is very enticing.

[blueglobefootball123]

I must be doing someting wrong, I am playing a 4-4-2 with player setting based on what I have read and my Birmingham team are proudly sitting in 21st place

Oh well I shall keep trying

[Purefun]

So your are going to post a full thread on tactics on the day of release. Will it be in the morning of the 14th? Only want to know because i'm taking the day off and i'm going to heavily rely on that thread and for me personally it would be very helpfull if it was already in the morning.

I suck big time on tactics.

[JacketB]

Thanks for all the work guys! I have modified your the tactics from your pack to form a 4-4-1-1 formation for my Valencia game. Do you have an ETA for your work on 4-4-1-1 tactics as although my defence is much stronger and my possession is better I am struggling to create a lot of chances or play attractive football and would like to see how your are developing the formation.

[wwfan]

4-4-2 Download Link

[Millie]

This is pathetic, can someone please upload these on a site like sendspace.com or megaupload.com, I don't want to register at FM-Britain.

4-4-2 Download Link

It's sorted now. In future, though, instead of the insulting comments could you please read the thread - wwfan had said he was getting the issue sorted for you, all it required was a little patience.

Which striker drops deep in this tactic?

The one with the lower mentality, lower creative freedom.

wwfan/Millie, I am of the Maurinho persuasion. I wish to use the mentalities example , above, for my defensive tactic. My standard and attacking mentalities will be one or two clicks higher than the defensive one, for each tactic. I am thinking in terms of a global system for players creative freedom and using the highest click of "little" for all three tactic sets. Would this work or would it be a non starter, in your opinion, or anyone else's for that matter. Kind regards.

What you're suggesting using mentality seems pretty logical, though I would perhaps have the defensive tactic more defensive than these frameworks. That's personal preference though.

With regards to creative freedom, I would say give it a go. I always used to be global with CF in '08 and '07. However, when the later installments of the guide come out explaining these issues, you might reconsider. Again, it's down to personal preference. It sounds logical and doesn't look like it definitely wouldn't work.

Enjoyed the read but too bad it comes down to the following:

GK: 7

DCd: 6

DC: 8

FB: 10

MCd: 9

ML/R: 11

MCa: 12

FC: 13

Love the theory and the discussions but not the numbers.

Looking forward to creating a tactic for Tottenham when I get the game as I only briefly touched the demo. The idea of giving more freedom to the players when better quality comes in as the game progresses is very enticing.

Unfortunately it seems this is the way the game works. There are another 6 frameworks to be covered in the later guide, some of which are far, far less number based (in that there's a lot less fiddling and clicking), so hopefully one of them will be to your liking. Remember, the only real rules that we've found is that a) the midfield really ought to be "split" to provide movement, attacking potency and defensive potential; and b) that the forwards really ought to be "split" to provide a link between midfield and attack; and c) that the most attacking player shouldn't really be more than 8 clicks away from the most defensive player (otherwise the assman starts moaning).

I must be doing someting wrong, I am playing a 4-4-2 with player setting based on what I have read and my Birmingham team are proudly sitting in 21st place

Oh well I shall keep trying

I would keep trying, but without any more information it's hard to see where you might be going wrong.

So your are going to post a full thread on tactics on the day of release. Will it be in the morning of the 14th? Only want to know because i'm taking the day off and i'm going to heavily rely on that thread and for me personally it would be very helpfull if it was already in the morning.

I suck big time on tactics.

That is the plan. wwfan is in Sydney, I'm in England. I'm sure we'll work out who will be up "earliest" and work out who should post it all up.

[Golden_Team]

ok, i have one question. Why MCa has so litlle CF? For example if i have bfabregas here isn`t i waste his talent?

hope you understand me, sorry for poor english

[Millie]

The MCa is classed as a "support" player in our tactics. We'll come onto what that means in detail later on in the guide.

Suffice to say, if you would rather he were a more attacking player, feel free to up his forward runs and/or creative freedom. Remember that these are meant as default tactics, so if you feel you can get more out of Fabregas (without sacrificing team integrity) by playing him in a different way, go ahead and do it!

You'll notice later on in our 4-5-1 that we do have a midfielder like this, so it might be interesting for you to compare them.

[Mitja]

do you have a system with 2 support MCs in 442? (both set to FwR mixed)

[NUFC-00]

hi wwfan,

firstly, thank you for putting up the link to download the tactics.

I have downloaded and am using 4-4-2 attacking for newcastle. I aint adjusted anything but won 2 games in a row.

but did anything need tweaking or is it to use straight away?

thanks

[Millie]

do you have a system with 2 support MCs in 442? (both set to FwR mixed)

In a 4-4-2? No. There's a reason for this, which makes absolutely no sense until we explain "Defence"-"Support"-"Attack" in a later thread. I'm not saying it won't work, because I believe you could make a tactic very, very effectively with two support MCs. In fact, for a good team it would look awesome. What I would say is that we play a support and a defensive player in a 4-4-2 to stop the midfield getting vacated when the team go on the attack. Having a holding man in there keeps things solid. If you would like to experiment with a support player at MCd, however, I think you can get it to work. I'd love to hear how you get on.

hi wwfan,

firstly, thank you for putting up the link to download the tactics.

I have downloaded and am using 4-4-2 attacking for newcastle. I aint adjusted anything but won 2 games in a row.

but did anything need tweaking or is it to use straight away?

thanks

When I made the 4-4-2, the only changes I made were to make it two or three notches narrower on the "standard" and "attacking" versions, and I dropped Closing Down by two or three notches on everyone in the "attacking" version. But, if it's working "out of the box", so to speak, then don't change a winning formula!

In all seriousness, these are base, default tactics. They will need some tweaking, but only to the specfic needs of your individual players and team characteristics.

[Purefun]

Thx for the feedback Millie.

I'll be up bright and early, just in case.

[Mitja]

i played 2 matches with 442 standard, here are my observations.

the tactic is very control minded and cautious. produces nice, slow tempo passing. imo the tactic would be too slow and too defensive to start home matches in PL, without tweaking. i can't coment on metality framework as it is hard to distinguish between 12 and 14 but i noticed high amounts of off sides being called against my team, maybe it's got smth to do with striker's high mentality? i did try to use this tactics with global mentality but i hardly noticed any difference, i'm not saying there isn't.

full backs, unlike MCa, don't offer enough support (what's the difference putting them on no FrR?) but that's more ME issue. strikers would need tweaking to suite their ability and style. marking system is very interesting.

[Mitja]

why is CMd set to HuB in all three systems? i don't get this.

also i noticed full backs' and wingers' passing is much more direct. i'm quite surprised, is it to put early crosses into the box? i think putting them on short passing could improve their interplay a lot, especially in attacking tactics.

[Millie]

We'll get onto passing assumptions at a later date.

The MCd is on HUB so he can hold on to the ball, look around and play it. He's the holding midfield player, so we decided to keep him as a player behind the main attacking players who can recycle the ball and look for the most opportune passing option.

In the attacking tactic, the fullbacks really do become a major part of the game, contributing goals and assists aplenty. In the defensive tactic you'll see very little of them, but then that's deliberate. In the standard, they should be somewhere between the two. The standard tactic will be a lot less attacking than the attacking one, but should offer exactly the kind of controled play you suggested. Try flicking between the three tactics as you need to tighten up and go more attacking.

Btw, the fullbacks should be on mixed FWR in the standard tactic, so I hope that's the case.

[DominicForza]

I have been using the 442 attacking as a template and have had succes. However, I have a problem with fatigue. My players fatigue significantly faster than the AI's players despite have high stamina and natural fitness.

I remember reading somewhere, at some point that the more attacking options you gave players the more they would fatigue. Is this the case? What about the high closing down? I would imagine closing down all over would be very tiring.

Have other experienced this fatigue problem? Have you adjusted with lower closing down (or other tweaks) or are you just soldiering on?

[wwfan]

I have been using the 442 attacking as a template and have had succes. However, I have a problem with fatigue. My players fatigue significantly faster than the AI's players despite have high stamina and natural fitness.

I remember reading somewhere, at some point that the more attacking options you gave players the more they would fatigue. Is this the case? What about the high closing down? I would imagine closing down all over would be very tiring.

Have other experienced this fatigue problem? Have you adjusted with lower closing down (or other tweaks) or are you just soldiering on?

Try narrowing and reducing closing down by three notches. Should help. There is definitely an issue with conditioning that makes playing high pressing tactics difficult for the front five.

[the blue ferret]

GK: 7

DCd: 6

DC: 8

FB: 10

MCd: 9

ML/R: 11

MCa: 12

FC: 13

Being really really dumb,but what do these numbers represent? Are they clicks from the middle or from the left side?

[wwfan]

Being really really dumb,but what do these numbers represent? Are they clicks from the middle or from the left side?

Far left =1 , far right = 20. The frameworks in the OP are just an example in terms of how the numbers are structured. You can start from any position you like.

[DominicForza]

Try narrowing and reducing closing down by three notches. Should help. There is definitely an issue with conditioning that makes playing high pressing tactics difficult for the front five.

Yes, this is pretty much what I have done and it did help. I reduced closing down (although not by x notches...more intuitive per player). I have also narrowed the formation. I must confess I did not think of it in terms of conditioning but to get more runs into the box from the wing. In retrospect I certainly why narrowing should help.

Now I am curious to see how much of an effect reducing closing down and narrowing have in isolation on conditioning.

I am not thrilled with the changes in tactical instructions, but the football on my screen "feels" real.

[wwfan]

The only change is the loss of arrows. Anybody who used them as a key instruction will feel they have lost control, but in reality that control was illusory as the arrows triggered a standard movement no matter where the ball was on the pitch. They were never supposed to be used in the manner many employed them. Some people are very upset about their removal, which is a shame as it makes them lose sight of how much more realistic the football is.

The only thing that has gone is regular lateral movement. Everything else that arrows did in FM08 can be replicated by FWRs and mentality in FM09. Free roles and CF encourage a player to drift. What you cannot do is ensure he always moves into a certain position every time you get the ball. No matter how may people claim this is wrong and managers can do this, I cannot see a single argument that suggests this is a realistic football strategy.

[TheBetterHalf]

What you cannot do is ensure he always moves into a certain position every time you get the ball. No matter how may people claim this is wrong and managers can do this, I cannot see a single argument that suggests this is a realistic football strategy.

Could not agree more. As a manager I could give my players these instructions and maybe get a good result in the first 2 or 3 matches. After that, making the same movements-and only these movements- , teams would with ease pick that up and find a way to counter it.