Target Man ideas

[Marc.Foster050]

After managing a few clubs around Europe I have come back to England in charge of Bournemouth in 2031. Got a fantastic regen who I was trying to buy at Milan and now glad I didn't. He's a striker who is 6ft5. has 15+ all attributes you would associate with a target man. One of the best players in the league and is playing for mid to low table Bournemouth so I am trying to build my team around getting the best out of him. Trouble is I haven't been able to get a target man system to work at all this year.

Has anyone had any success playing with a target man in FM17? if so what type of system was this using? was it as a lone striker with players around him or was it in a front two with someone just running off him? Did you have to set PI's to make him play like a target man when he wasn't classed as one? All that seems to happen is he gets a ball lumped to him and no one supporting. even with mixed passing.

 

Sorry I appreciate its quite an open question but I'm lost so looking for a few options to see what would suit me best or maybe something I've missed. Also I don't have a set way of playing with this club yet so far so open to any ideas really.

[herne79]

Why stick with Target Man if you're having problems?  Just as an option to consider, how about using a different role such as the Deep Lying Forward instead?

Just because a player "looks" like a TM doesn't mean to say you have to use him as such.  Of course if you want to use a TM then fair enough and ignore this post .

[wereldbol]

i had some success with what i call a 'mobile target man': a target man on support with roam from position and move into channels active. this made him chest down the ball in all areas of attack and made sure i had plenty of different players running off him: a winger, an attacking midfielder or even a wing back. 

[Nozzer]

I play 3-5-2.  Higher Tempo, More Closing Down, Exploit the Flanks, Mixed Passing, Pass into Space

GK (D)

RWB (A)

CD (D)

CD (D)

CD (D)

LWB (A)

 

Anchor Man (D)

B2B (S)

B2B (S)

 

TM (S)

AF (A)

 

I haven’t played the above at PL level though but it had worked for me at a number of different clubs, it isn’t overly attacking but there is plenty of support for the TM (S) coming from behind and someone running forward to create space for him / make a passing option

 

[Marc.Foster050]

10 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Why stick with Target Man if you're having problems?  Just as an option to consider, how about using a different role such as the Deep Lying Forward instead?

Just because a player "looks" like a TM doesn't mean to say you have to use him as such.  Of course if you want to use a TM then fair enough and ignore this post .

I don't necessarily need him to be classed as a target man I just wanted him to play like one as he has all the right characteristics (apart from 17+ acc and speed). I just want him to be making a nuisance of himself to the centre backs and bringing other players in the game. staying pretty central for crosses as he wins everything in the air etc. If I could do that with another role that would be brilliant as could bring a different option but I just can't get him to not be isolated and if he does get support he seems to be the one crossing it which isn't what you want from your giant cf. If I was to say put a pi of hold up ball and and less risky passes so he kept the ball until he had the right option would a DLF then get himself into the box to get onto the end of the cross when the ball made its way out wide?

 

14 minutes ago, wereldbol said:

i had some success with what i call a 'mobile target man': a target man on support with roam from position and move into channels active. this made him chest down the ball in all areas of attack and made sure i had plenty of different players running off him: a winger, an attacking midfielder or even a wing back. 

I did think about trying to make him mobile but as above he just ended up crossing it when he went to mobile which was becoming a bit frustrating. Did yours manage to get himself into the box at all?

 

15 minutes ago, Nozzer said:

I play 3-5-2.  Higher Tempo, More Closing Down, Exploit the Flanks, Mixed Passing, Pass into Space

GK (D)

RWB (A)

CD (D)

CD (D)

CD (D)

LWB (A)

 

Anchor Man (D)

B2B (S)

B2B (S)

 

TM (S)

AF (A)

 

I haven’t played the above at PL level though but it had worked for me at a number of different clubs, it isn’t overly attacking but there is plenty of support for the TM (S) coming from behind and someone running forward to create space for him / make a passing option

 

Like this way of playing usually. Always try and get a 3 man defence going at some point. Do you find the TM flicks it onto the AF a lot with this role? As I do love the idea of a Janker/Baros style front two if I could get it to work. Very hard to play against when done correctly!

[Nozzer]

3 minutes ago, Marc.Foster050 said:

Like this way of playing usually. Always try and get a 3 man defence going at some point. Do you find the TM flicks it onto the AF a lot with this role? As I do love the idea of a Janker/Baros style front two if I could get it to work. Very hard to play against when done correctly!

I try to keep my tactics and formations quite simple, the 352 offers a lot of flexibility during games if my initial set up isn't working.  My TM doesn't set up a great amount of goals with headed flick ons but he is almost always involved in goals whether it be taking part in the actual move receiving and giving the ball or attracting players to him which allows others to be free.

I think if I just looked at his stats at the end of each season I wouldn't get the full picture as he may not have enough assists or key passes but he is often the pass before the assist etc.

I also find having him on support allows a decent amount of room for the AF to run into in behind him.

[VinceLombardi]

Not tons of experience with TM, but I use DLF(s) a lot. I also emphasize physical attributes and am looking for a player to bully and physically dominate the opposing CD.

I can count on him getting physical with the CD and be happy playing balls in the air or to his feet, assuming he has the attributes. I also don't have any issue with him getting forward and putting the ball in the net. I'll have him with about 15-20 goals & 15-20 assists at the end of most seasons. He rarely leads either catergory, but is typically top 3 in both.

The only PI I give him are close down much more and tackle harder so he extends his physical game to defensive side. He picks up a few fouls and cards because of it, but its almost never in a dangerous spot. 

[ajsr1982]

This is based purely on observation, but here are the issues I see with the use of the TM.

First of all, we know that having a TM means that the rest of the team are more likely to look for him 'early'. That is, defenders and midfielders will go long towards him. Let's put that in the back pocket for now.

We also need to consider the point at which players will make forward runs. If we're looking for a supporting (third man) run for the TM to lay off to, or flick on to, I think you want your third man run to take place either just before, or maybe just after (ie, while the ball is in flight) the long pass is played up to the TM. Your third man run might be a CM trying to get on the end of it, or an IF/AF bending a run inside a full back.

The point I'm making is that it's a speculative run. Personally, I don't see too much of this, even from players with attack duties. Maybe it's because I tend to play at lower levels and the Off The Ball attribute is generally lower. My observations though are that a CM/A, for example, won't burst forward until the players ahead of him have possession. That's too late to get the TM to feed him in the way we might expect a 'traditional' TM to do. Likewise, I don't see the AF making a run 'in case' the TM wins the header.

All that means it's very hard to get your TM to work in a Mark Hately/Emile Heskey fashion, in my opinion. Feeding him with plenty of crosses to get on the end of things in the area is a good option, but for supporting play, I think you want to get the ball into his feet and have players making runs off him once he's got hold of the ball. That means you probably need a slightly slower build up play than the TM duty, with its ball attracting properties, allows.

Normally I'll go for a modified DLF, or DF, depending on whether I want the player in question to keep it simple or not.

[Marc.Foster050]

15 minutes ago, VinceLombardi said:

Not tons of experience with TM, but I use DLF(s) a lot. I also emphasize physical attributes and am looking for a player to bully and physically dominate the opposing CD.

I can count on him getting physical with the CD and be happy playing balls in the air or to his feet, assuming he has the attributes. I also don't have any issue with him getting forward and putting the ball in the net. I'll have him with about 15-20 goals & 15-20 assists at the end of most seasons. He rarely leads either catergory, but is typically top 3 in both.

The only PI I give him are close down much more and tackle harder so he extends his physical game to defensive side. He picks up a few fouls and cards because of it, but its almost never in a dangerous spot. 

This definitely sounds like the way to go. Love the idea of closing down and tackling harder, want the defenders to know they've had a battle at the end of it adds to the physicality he can bring to the game as well! Will be giving that a go.

 

14 minutes ago, ajsr1982 said:

This is based purely on observation, but here are the issues I see with the use of the TM.

First of all, we know that having a TM means that the rest of the team are more likely to look for him 'early'. That is, defenders and midfielders will go long towards him. Let's put that in the back pocket for now.

We also need to consider the point at which players will make forward runs. If we're looking for a supporting (third man) run for the TM to lay off to, or flick on to, I think you want your third man run to take place either just before, or maybe just after (ie, while the ball is in flight) the long pass is played up to the TM. Your third man run might be a CM trying to get on the end of it, or an IF/AF bending a run inside a full back.

The point I'm making is that it's a speculative run. Personally, I don't see too much of this, even from players with attack duties. Maybe it's because I tend to play at lower levels and the Off The Ball attribute is generally lower. My observations though are that a CM/A, for example, won't burst forward until the players ahead of him have possession. That's too late to get the TM to feed him in the way we might expect a 'traditional' TM to do. Likewise, I don't see the AF making a run 'in case' the TM wins the header.

All that means it's very hard to get your TM to work in a Mark Hately/Emile Heskey fashion, in my opinion. Feeding him with plenty of crosses to get on the end of things in the area is a good option, but for supporting play, I think you want to get the ball into his feet and have players making runs off him once he's got hold of the ball. That means you probably need a slightly slower build up play than the TM duty, with its ball attracting properties, allows.

Normally I'll go for a modified DLF, or DF, depending on whether I want the player in question to keep it simple or not.

start of this is exactly the problem I have no matter how I set up the team or what instructions I give them as soon as you put a TM in defenders just hoof it. Becomes very frustrating. Especially when as you say its too early for anyone to realistically be anywhere near him. I don't mind the long ball up to him just when the shape is set and he has options when he receives the ball. As above I am definitely thinking give up on the TM role and try and adapt another one like DLF to play like one with out the need to hoof it all the time. Hopefully it works as I don't want to give up on the big physical forward that puts himself about a bit.

[jorgvandervloed]

@Marc.Foster050

You obviously have a star-player who you want to excel, but i think the first question should be what exactly do you want him to do? Do you want him to score the goals? or set up the goals?

When you've answered that question, you also know if you want to use him as a lone-forward or with a partner-striker. 

Generally, I would say using a targetman is more associated with a a system that gets the ball forward fast from deep. So a tactic that sits deeper and soaks up the pressure. 

[Marc.Foster050]

4 minutes ago, jorgvandervloed said:

@Marc.Foster050

You obviously have a star-player who you want to excel, but i think the first question should be what exactly do you want him to do? Do you want him to score the goals? or set up the goals?

When you've answered that question, you also know if you want to use him as a lone-forward or with a partner-striker. 

Generally, I would say using a targetman is more associated with a a system that gets the ball forward fast from deep. So a tactic that sits deeper and soaks up the pressure. 

that is something I can not tell you . I have started the season now and I'm 5 games in. Played 3 out of the top 4 already and got 5 points so I'm pretty happy with the player getting 5 goals (hasn't scored in the last two but they have been against the best two in the league)

 

I've decided my main formation is 4-4-1-1 with the big man being a CF(S) with an AP(A) behind him and two WM(A) out wide. I thought this would mean he could use his size in the right areas and my wide players would get lots of crosses in. What has actually happened with all but one of his goals is the AP has played the ball into him and he's rolled the defender and smashed it in. Not exactly what I had in mind but whatever works for him I'm happy with as still playing to strengths.

 

Another thing that I've liked is my plan b of a 3-5-1-1 where I pack the middle and try to get runners from midfield with the main man as a TM(S). This worked very well going forward I've actually got a goal from the B2B going beyond the big fella and getting on the end of a flick on. but has its defensive frailties I am ironing out.  

[Cal585]

On 24/07/2017 at 23:41, herne79 said:

Just as an option to consider, how about using a different role such as the Deep Lying Forward instead?

Just wanted to ask about this, as it's something I've seen suggested a fair bit around the place as a good Target Man without the ball-magnet attributes. However, I've always been a little put off by the More Risky Passes that is inbuilt into DLF(s), as a lot of Target Men that I've considered have been big and powerful but not exactly the most technically gifted. Likewise maybe a DF(s) would make a reasonable alternative as well but many seem to be slow, with poor aggression/bravery and poor tacklers.

Is this just me overthinking the PIs or is it something that it is important to be aware of?

[Bigmonkey79]

4~3~3

Fbl a

Dc d

Dc d

Fbr a

Bwm s

Dlp d flat with bwm's

Bwm s

Ifl a

Tm s

Ifr a

 

Set if to play narrow, defend deeper, mixed passing. Do not pass into space, retain possesion, play as high a tempo as you feel the quality of your team allows. No use smashing balls back to front if players are not gifted enough to take the ball down and play more intricate stuff in final third.

Set pi for bwm to mirror as many of b2b role as you can without loosing their dynamism.(brutality). Early mouriniho chelsea is your blueprint if the tm can also "play".  Expect to split the goals evenly between tm and if's . Your if's have to carry a goal threat. I look for pace,otb, finishing,first touch and dribbling. Retrained strikers do a good job. Filter in scouting menu to show goals scored to check pedegree.

Against significantly better teams drop fb and if to s not a. But change tm to A instead of S. Leaves him isolated...... but you are playing against much better teams. Play counter. my tm is expected to get involved in play once in each attack. Recieve direct passes to turn and shoot or feed the inside forwards. If that attack fails 2nd phase is wide ball to fb where by now if and tm are in box. Watch that your dlp d can tackle and anticipate with sound positioning or you will see your 2cb being countered regularly. Get the dlp to stay on his feet. It will buy you enough time for your fullbacks to recover and aid the cb's. 

 

Another poster mentioned not playing him as a tm, Defensive forward support offers more in attack than youd think provided the if's contribute to the pressing. Dont send him off chasing the opposition back like on his own. He'll be knackered and unsuccessful. Playing front three pressing hard an d two bwm joining gives opposition a headache. With the dlp on close down less/ much less he gets plenty of high balls to head away from your cb pairing too.

Ive never been able to get tm to work in a front two though

[Bigmonkey79]

In theory tm s should work well with ss bombing on frm deep.  Tm would need to be activley mobile to drag the dc around for the ss to run into that space. 4411 works better than 4231 for me in that instance. Get the wingers to stay wide drawing opposition fb wide to leave 2cb against your tm and ss

[ham_aka_stam]

On 27/07/2017 at 07:01, Cal585 said:

Just wanted to ask about this, as it's something I've seen suggested a fair bit around the place as a good Target Man without the ball-magnet attributes. However, I've always been a little put off by the More Risky Passes that is inbuilt into DLF(s), as a lot of Target Men that I've considered have been big and powerful but not exactly the most technically gifted. Likewise maybe a DF(s) would make a reasonable alternative as well but many seem to be slow, with poor aggression/bravery and poor tacklers.

Is this just me overthinking the PIs or is it something that it is important to be aware of?

With a Support mentality, depending on your team settings, he'll be quite cautious, and that setting is to encourage him to turn and look for runners with through balls/flick ons.  IMO that's quite an important part of being a target man.  The cautiousness of his mentality won't mean he's spraying passes around willynilly, this'll be for goal-scoring opportunities or on the counter predominantly.

I'd argue a targetman with poor bravery isn't worth the punt, you need him to be getting stuck into some rough challenges and making a nuisance of himself.

[Marc.Foster050]

46 minutes ago, ham_aka_stam said:

I'd argue a targetman with poor bravery isn't worth the punt, you need him to be getting stuck into some rough challenges and making a nuisance of himself.

Second this. Had a couple of attempts at trying to get a target man working in a system. The first attempt the player was 6ft5 had strength, heading, finishing, passing and quite a few mental stats above 14 but his bravery was around 6-7 if I recall correctly. A lot of highlights showed the ball being punted to him and him just backing off and not even trying to win it in the air. Not saying 100% it was down to his bravery but must of had some form of influence on it. Very Frustrating

[Cal585]

2 hours ago, ham_aka_stam said:

With a Support mentality, depending on your team settings, he'll be quite cautious, and that setting is to encourage him to turn and look for runners with through balls/flick ons.  IMO that's quite an important part of being a target man.  The cautiousness of his mentality won't mean he's spraying passes around willynilly, this'll be for goal-scoring opportunities or on the counter predominantly.

I'd argue a targetman with poor bravery isn't worth the punt, you need him to be getting stuck into some rough challenges and making a nuisance of himself.

That's a fair point that I hadn't thought about with bravery. I'm not quite sure what I was thinking though as the two players I had in mind have high and okay bravery and aggression. I think it was the acceleration/technique/passing that had me hesitant about the other roles. Technique will be a problem regardless but I might trial the others for a bit to see how they work.