No answer anymore!

[omaroo]

I have really tried to get int this game since getting it but unlike others which I enjoyed, I'm really alienated with fm13.

I'm not gonna blame SI for this, it's my own fault as it seems I'm not as good as others and as good as I thought.

I have tried various tactics, I have read wwfans threads which by the way shows that he is a genius. But after tinkering with tactics, formations, being aggressive in teams talk and usually getting a negative response from the players my team is in the relegation zone and has been thrashed by low level teams.

I hate the amounts of goals being conceded even though I got a solid defense.

No doubt I will be sacked soon but after not playing this game consistently, its coming to a point where I will put it down for good which I really don't want to do.

It's not about winning per se but actually enjoying the game and not being frustrated all the time.

I have no clue what to do ATM.

If anyone has an ideas I'm all ears.

[Guest]

It could be as simple as you have rubbish players, sometimes no matter how good you are you just do not have the quality in your playing staff to avoid relegation.

[omaroo]

It could be as simple as you have rubbish players, sometimes no matter how good you are you just do not have the quality in your playing staff to avoid relegation.

No I have good players as I'm playing with PSG lol.

[Guest]

There is no hope for you

I assume your manager has a high reputation.

[ArsenalFan7]

5 at the back

[omaroo]

There is no hope for you

I assume your manager has a high reputation.

I came in as an ex footballer so I had some rep.

It seems like you said I have no hope.

[omaroo]

5 at the back

Nah gets too defensive as I prefer my team to be aggressive.

Plus I have always played 4 at the back and 5 only when managing teams who came against the big boys.

[jmf1488]

Download a tactic. Use it and study it. Once you see how a successful tactic works, it might lead you in the right direction of creating your own successful tactic.

[Rupal]

Try prayer??

[ArsenalFan7]

Just start as a former international, I did that and it's way quicker to achieve a fun save that way, I get the impression a lot of people believe that gives you instantaneous results but it no way did for me, took me a few seasons to gain big respect, I guess people start lower for a sense of achievement, I just wanted a quick save. Could also try to play a simple save such as developing youth at Barca or splash cash at City. Maybe you're taking it too seriously, I really don't take this very seriously and I have found success with Napoli, albeit with no real challenge in reputation or reaching the job, it's a long term save that I'm having fun on, I don't go in to depth with tactics or anything, I mainly focus on developing players.

[deanpr]

It is 2035 in my game, and I am playing with all conquering Bromley. I started with no rep in BSS. It took years, I don't think there are quick wins in this version.

[wwfan]

As per my usual suggestion, open a thread in the tactics forum explaining what you are trying to do and you'll get lots of help. Everybody with an open mind has managed to turn things around by doing that.

[omaroo]

Just start as a former international, I did that and it's way quicker to achieve a fun save that way, I get the impression a lot of people believe that gives you instantaneous results but it no way did for me, took me a few seasons to gain big respect, I guess people start lower for a sense of achievement, I just wanted a quick save. Could also try to play a simple save such as developing youth at Barca or splash cash at City. Maybe you're taking it too seriously, I really don't take this very seriously and I have found success with Napoli, albeit with no real challenge in reputation or reaching the job, it's a long term save that I'm having fun on, I don't go in to depth with tactics or anything, I mainly focus on developing players.

I am playing as a former international but even then I'm finding it hard.

[omaroo]

As per my usual suggestion, open a thread in the tactics forum explaining what you are trying to do and you'll get lots of help. Everybody with an open mind has managed to turn things around by doing that.

Ok mate I will try to open a thread in tactics but I hope it won't get closed.

[wwfan]

Ok mate I will try to open a thread in tactics but I hope it won't get closed.

As long as it is clear and detailed and we know what you are trying to achieve, it won't be.

[KDR]

FWIW, your tactics can be spot on, but if you get other things wrong it won't matter (by the same token, the cracks in an iffy tactic can be papered over by getting other things right. If your tactic is just bad, you'll get tonked regardless). By which I mean " being aggressive in teams talk and usually getting a negative response from the players my team is in the relegation zone and has been thrashed by low level teams".

It's not all about team talks and stuff like that either. As others have pointed out on other threads, it's more holistic.

Really, you need to put yourself in your players' shoes. You're doing your best to do what the gaffer wants, but you've been unlucky, or the tactic leaves a gap that the opposition keeps exploiting. No player will always do what the boss wants - much depends on his natural mentality and playing instincts - though they'll try to remember and obey (naturally, they'll lapse now and then; even the very best/most disciplined do it).

So you trudge in at half-time. You're one good player in a team of good players, playing for a big club, but things aren't working and you're losing at home to some two-bob lot you know you should be hammering. Naturally, your morale is down, and if this is the latest game in a run of bad results, your confidence is shot.

The gaffer storms in. He's steaming, tearing strips off of everybody.

How do you feel? How are you going to react?

If it's been a bad half in an otherwise good run, it might get you up for the fight. If you're already struggling, it's going to demoralize you even further. Your lack of confidence becomes nerves. Nervousness turns to fear - no one likes to be bawled out by the boss. So all these good players play 10, 20, 30 per cent within themselves. They don't want the ball. They don't express themselves even if ordered to do so by the manager and coaching staff. And you'd be sitting there thinking 'You're meant to know how we feel, boss. After all, weren't you also a top division/international player?'

No player wants to get relegated. To a player at a top team, it'd be the end of the world just finding himself in that situation. Chances are it's way beyond anything he's experienced before (in his footballing life, probably).

Get the psychology right, and a bunch of apparent no-hopers can work wonders. Get it wrong, and even Messi would look a chump.

Put yourself in the players' shoes. If you're feeling pressure, they will be too. Take it off them (manage it ). Examine the tactics. Are you getting the best out of them? Are they playing to their true strengths? If morale is low, put an arm around them (if they need it; some players won't so get to know them).

Sure, they're just names, stats and algorithms as far as things go...but you have to imagine that you're their real manager (which is the lie we all tell ourselves every time we load up) and these are the real players (in a way, they are) and treat them as you would an actual human being.

It's what I try to do, anyway, and morale at my clubs always tends to be good-superb no matter what (with occasional individual or collective dips that are usually sorted out in very short order).

Sorry for the long post.

[wwfan]

Sorry for the long post.

Don't be. It was excellent.

[omaroo]

FWIW, your tactics can be spot on, but if you get other things wrong it won't matter (by the same token, the cracks in an iffy tactic can be papered over by getting other things right. If your tactic is just bad, you'll get tonked regardless). By which I mean " being aggressive in teams talk and usually getting a negative response from the players my team is in the relegation zone and has been thrashed by low level teams".

It's not all about team talks and stuff like that either. As others have pointed out on other threads, it's more holistic.

Really, you need to put yourself in your players' shoes. You're doing your best to do what the gaffer wants, but you've been unlucky, or the tactic leaves a gap that the opposition keeps exploiting. No player will always do what the boss wants - much depends on his natural mentality and playing instincts - though they'll try to remember and obey (naturally, they'll lapse now and then; even the very best/most disciplined do it).

So you trudge in at half-time. You're one good player in a team of good players, playing for a big club, but things aren't working and you're losing at home to some two-bob lot you know you should be hammering. Naturally, your morale is down, and if this is the latest game in a run of bad results, your confidence is shot.

The gaffer storms in. He's steaming, tearing strips off of everybody.

How do you feel? How are you going to react?

If it's been a bad half in an otherwise good run, it might get you up for the fight. If you're already struggling, it's going to demoralize you even further. Your lack of confidence becomes nerves. Nervousness turns to fear - no one likes to be bawled out by the boss. So all these good players play 10, 20, 30 per cent within themselves. They don't want the ball. They don't express themselves even if ordered to do so by the manager and coaching staff. And you'd be sitting there thinking 'You're meant to know how we feel, boss. After all, weren't you also a top division/international player?'

No player wants to get relegated. To a player at a top team, it'd be the end of the world just finding himself in that situation. Chances are it's way beyond anything he's experienced before (in his footballing life, probably).

Get the psychology right, and a bunch of apparent no-hopers can work wonders. Get it wrong, and even Messi would look a chump.

Put yourself in the players' shoes. If you're feeling pressure, they will be too. Take it off them (manage it ). Examine the tactics. Are you getting the best out of them? Are they playing to their true strengths? If morale is low, put an arm around them (if they need it; some players won't so get to know them).

Sure, they're just names, stats and algorithms as far as things go...but you have to imagine that you're their real manager (which is the lie we all tell ourselves every time we load up) and these are the real players (in a way, they are) and treat them as you would an actual human being.

It's what I try to do, anyway, and morale at my clubs always tends to be good-superb no matter what (with occasional individual or collective dips that are usually sorted out in very short order).

Sorry for the long post.

What you say makes sense especially in this version.

It seems you have to be precise and more importantly imagine that you are actually managing and try to be simple and effective as possible.

But it isn't as easy as it seems.

[KDR]

What you say makes sense especially in this version.

It seems you have to be precise and more importantly imagine that you are actually managing and try to be simple and effective as possible.

But it isn't as easy as it seems.

No, and what works once might not work again - or at least not in quite the same way. Just as IRL, there are a lot of variables. Previous form, fitness, morale and overall happiness play their part, but if you know your player and read the game situation well enough, it should work out. Sometimes it won't, no matter how accurately you've read the situation - just as, IRL, you have managers who make all the right calls, but for some reason the team just doesn't get the result. Basically, sometimes things just go wrong: your luck's out and everything seems to hit the woodwork, your brilliant striker will fluff a sitter, your best passer will look about as good as a Sunday league clogger, and so on.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of it (I know I've suffered at the hands of the generally-good-but-sometimes-wonky ME, or at least get yanked out of the game by odd-looking representations of things), FM isn't just a football game; it is/has become a football simulator. We all know it's not perfect, but nothing ever will be - RL football is too complex (not in tactics, etc, but in the "general randomness of reality" that affects everything and everyone). So yeah, keep things simple, don't confuse the players; treat them as you'd treat players IRL (and how you'd want to be treated as a player); and above all else, know that, sometimes, things will just go horribly wrong (see the o.g. vid on my career thread for an example of that!)

This is getting pretty long again, but whether you d/l a tactic or develop your own, if you bear all this in mind I'm sure you won't go far wrong, so good luck and enjoy the game.

Oh, and @wwfan: Cheers.

[podunkboy]

...fluff a sitter,...

I once fluffed a sitter, my wife wouldn't let her watch the kids after that.

On topic, that "randomness of reality" - no one's seen one of their players crumble to the turf with a coronary or stroke, have they? I mean, they haven't implemented fatalities, right?

[JimbobWWFC]

Just as IRL, there are a lot of variables. Previous form, fitness, morale and overall happiness play their part

Not only that, but these same variables also apply to the opposition too, which obviously impacts how your team fares on matchdays

[ragnarokflame]

from what you said it seems likely you are going to be playing with a high and wide formation, trying to play "aggressively" . this may be why you are conceding a lot with good players.

i would suggest unticking the defensive line box to reset the slider to standard (if you have changed it) and play with a width of slightly under half way. while it might not be how you want to play, it may help you diagnose if this is the issue and work towards getting it right bit by bit.

a common mistake of which i was often guilty of is trying to play this way, high defence, lots of width, wingbacks bombing on, short passing, high tempo, etc, etc, when in reality this is quite difficult to pull off.

hope that helps, but i would agree that the tactics forum will almost certianly be able to give you a hand.

[ArsenalFan7]

I find tactics to have minimal impact, I would agree that morale is the biggest factor, I've little idea other than the basics in what I am doing so when I start messing around with advanced options it's just my perception of what's right, I don't actually know if I am doing it right, I have a set bunch of shouts I throw at teams depending on their teams weakness and that's all really. I don't mix it up much, in the league I use the same formation or a very slight change but I get similar results. I mainly just experiment these days.

I remember a good guide I read once which included some basic tactics used by real life managers, it also explained stuff such as shouts and how they should be used, was very helpful. But I do not know the name..

[omaroo]

No, and what works once might not work again - or at least not in quite the same way. Just as IRL, there are a lot of variables. Previous form, fitness, morale and overall happiness play their part, but if you know your player and read the game situation well enough, it should work out. Sometimes it won't, no matter how accurately you've read the situation - just as, IRL, you have managers who make all the right calls, but for some reason the team just doesn't get the result. Basically, sometimes things just go wrong: your luck's out and everything seems to hit the woodwork, your brilliant striker will fluff a sitter, your best passer will look about as good as a Sunday league clogger, and so on.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of it (I know I've suffered at the hands of the generally-good-but-sometimes-wonky ME, or at least get yanked out of the game by odd-looking representations of things), FM isn't just a football game; it is/has become a football simulator. We all know it's not perfect, but nothing ever will be - RL football is too complex (not in tactics, etc, but in the "general randomness of reality" that affects everything and everyone). So yeah, keep things simple, don't confuse the players; treat them as you'd treat players IRL (and how you'd want to be treated as a player); and above all else, know that, sometimes, things will just go horribly wrong (see the o.g. vid on my career thread for an example of that!)

This is getting pretty long again, but whether you d/l a tactic or develop your own, if you bear all this in mind I'm sure you won't go far wrong, so good luck and enjoy the game.

Oh, and @wwfan: Cheers.

Thanks appreciate it.

I havent enjoyed FM13 as other versions, but hope with the advice given I can enjoy this more complex simulator.

I will be honest been playing since FM06, kinda feel embarrassed when asking for help lol.

[omaroo]

I find tactics to have minimal impact, I would agree that morale is the biggest factor, I've little idea other than the basics in what I am doing so when I start messing around with advanced options it's just my perception of what's right, I don't actually know if I am doing it right, I have a set bunch of shouts I throw at teams depending on their teams weakness and that's all really. I don't mix it up much, in the league I use the same formation or a very slight change but I get similar results. I mainly just experiment these days.

I remember a good guide I read once which included some basic tactics used by real life managers, it also explained stuff such as shouts and how they should be used, was very helpful. But I do not know the name..

I have just used tactics since playing FM years ago and was very successful, never have used shouts and dont think I will as I wouldnt know when to use them or which ones would work in the situation.

Always have prefered using tactics on its own.

[ArsenalFan7]

http://www.fm-britain.co.uk/tactics-ebooks/tactical-theorems-10/

i did think wwfan had a part in it, it is very helpful.

[omaroo]

http://www.fm-britain.co.uk/tactics-ebooks/tactical-theorems-10/

i did think wwfan had a part in it, it is very helpful.

I might read some of it to see if it helps, but I rather get advice to and use that. Plus I just want to enjoy the game, I really dont feel like reading a book will help me immensely.

Its a long book to take in everything, I assume people who read the book become great at the game.

No surprise wwfan has a role in the book, he is a tactical genius.

Thanks for the links btw.

[santy001]

It's been a rather simple approach for me, but as my team gets better (technically) and I introduce players who are less physical I slow the tempo down more. When I start at a team I tend to go for fast, physical players who can just get the job done so possession starts out at the lower 40's in most games, quick tempo, high pressure system. As better players come in gradually reduce the tempo and you start to see their technical abilities shine through, give a few players who are capable a bit more creative freedom. Still I tend to restrict it largely and keep the high pressure game when we don't have the ball, but just allow my team to play a mixed passing game at a very slow tempo.

Players can avoid one, two or even three tackles at times and bring opposition players right out of their position leaving teams exposed. My 3 man midfield of Isco, Rasmus Elm & Bender just behind them are excellent at this with short passes between them and patience on the ball.

[wwfan]

The key to tactics is about getting players to do what they are good at and adjusting your base tactic to the situation by employing logical shouts. That's all I do nowadays. The more you mess around beyond that, the more likely you'll struggle.

[KDR]

Thanks appreciate it.

I havent enjoyed FM13 as other versions, but hope with the advice given I can enjoy this more complex simulator.

I will be honest been playing since FM06, kinda feel embarrassed when asking for help lol.

To be equally honest, this is the first version of the game where I haven't ended up switching back to the 'Classic' tactics view. I couldn't get things to work any other way on previous versions. On FM13...I won't say it was easy, but it seemed to be a better match for whatever knowledge I'd picked up from playing. Even then, I'm not one of the tactical guru types who can do no wrong.

Just to show my age, I've been playing since the first CM...and I was already an adult when that came out!

As for the shouts...if you don't know the effect they'll have, you're best off not using them for now. Give them a try in pre-season friendlies and take time to suss them out eventually, though, because they are useful (well, sometimes; other times, players seem to amble around having taken no notice. It gives a taste of how Fabio must have felt when he was England manager ).

[omaroo]

The key to tactics is about getting players to do what they are good at and adjusting your base tactic to the situation by employing logical shouts. That's all I do nowadays. The more you mess around beyond that, the more likely you'll struggle.

But what if I dont want to use shouts, I have tried in the past and have never been comfortable using it, as it can be too many options.

I have always just used tactics and tinkered with them and had success without using shouts.

Is it bad I dont use shouts like you and others?

[omaroo]

To be equally honest, this is the first version of the game where I haven't ended up switching back to the 'Classic' tactics view. I couldn't get things to work any other way on previous versions. On FM13...I won't say it was easy, but it seemed to be a better match for whatever knowledge I'd picked up from playing. Even then, I'm not one of the tactical guru types who can do no wrong.

Just to show my age, I've been playing since the first CM...and I was already an adult when that came out!

As for the shouts...if you don't know the effect they'll have, you're best off not using them for now. Give them a try in pre-season friendlies and take time to suss them out eventually, though, because they are useful (well, sometimes; other times, players seem to amble around having taken no notice. It gives a taste of how Fabio must have felt when he was England manager ).

I assume you are using the TC?

I was in the same boat as you just using "classic" tactics for many versions and just using sliders, changing it and having success.

But in this game Im used to TC now as I used to in FM12 as well.

Thats the thing I didnt have issues in FM games when i didnt use shouts, so if I dont use them in this one surely it wont matter would it?

[wwfan]

But what if I dont want to use shouts, I have tried in the past and have never been comfortable using it, as it can be too many options.

I have always just used tactics and tinkered with them and had success without using shouts.

Is it bad I dont use shouts like you and others?

It's not bad, just limiting. You don't have to know what sliders the shouts move. You just have to be logical and think football. Some shouts suit physical teams, some technical teams. Some shouts help with wet weather and poor pitches, others with dry weather and good pitches. Some shouts help you open up and others to stop the opposition playing. Some help you patch up holes in your formation and others to exploit holes in the opposition formation.

[peleJunior]

It's not bad, just limiting. You don't have to know what sliders the shouts move. You just have to be logical and think football. Some shouts suit physical teams, some technical teams. Some shouts help with wet weather and poor pitches, others with dry weather and good pitches. Some shouts help you open up and others to stop the opposition playing. Some help you patch up holes in your formation and others to exploit holes in the opposition formation.

And all of them depend on what kind of players you have. They are not a magical formula.

[omaroo]

It's not bad, just limiting. You don't have to know what sliders the shouts move. You just have to be logical and think football. Some shouts suit physical teams, some technical teams. Some shouts help with wet weather and poor pitches, others with dry weather and good pitches. Some shouts help you open up and others to stop the opposition playing. Some help you patch up holes in your formation and others to exploit holes in the opposition formation.

So the success I had on previous FM games, was that a fluke? As in those I didnt use shouts.

I have read shouts are a big deal and you can have success and enjoy the game without them as I did.

Like I said there are TOO many shouts so can be confusing which one to use, when to use and if its at the right time.

[peleJunior]

So the success I had on previous FM games, was that a fluke? As in those I didnt use shouts.

I have read shouts are a big deal and you can have success and enjoy the game without them as I did.

Like I said there are TOO many shouts so can be confusing which one to use, when to use and if its at the right time.

They are hardly confusing if you watch football with a keen eye and understand the simplist dynamics of the game. Most people are fans of football, and like and believe punditry but have very little understanding of even the most fundamental ideas of football like creating space and defending space. These people are the one's who can't grasp simple concepts like exploit the middle or the flanks and even worse are too lazy to pause the game after they use the shout have a look at what is has done to there original tactic.

[omaroo]

They are hardly confusing if you watch football with a keen eye and understand the simplist dynamics of the game. Most people are fans of football, and like and believe punditry but have very little understanding of even the most fundamental ideas of football like creating space and defending space. These people are the one's who can't grasp simple concepts like exploit the middle or the flanks and even worse are too lazy to pause the game after they use the shout have a look at what is has done to there original tactic.

Mate I'm not expert. I watch football and I can't grasp some of the things going on. I struggle with things like this in terms of understanding.

I'm not football expert like you, wwfan or others nor am I lazy I have stated I never used shouts but still had success in past fm games but not the current one, which I don't understand how?

Was I lucky, or was using basic, simple tactics not including shouts enough.

[Guest]

It's nothing that you've done, the ME is just a lot more robust compared to previous incarnations & it does require a greater understanding of football tactics than in the past.

Thankfully the help is there, the mods & some of the more experienced posters in the tactics forum offer a wealth of information if you're willing to listen.

[omaroo]

Ye that's why I had success in previous version due to basic knowledge and because of the exploits and flaws in previous ME.

I agree the current ME needs better understanding to achieve things, and I'm willing to apply more simplicitly to my tactics instead of doing alot of things at once. But are shouts a must to get instant results and to get success? Does everyone use them?

[Guest]

Shouts are not needed from the start of a match, anyone who tells you otherwise probably doesn't truly understand the tactical side of FM, I only employ shouts as the match progresses & even then it is rare for me to do so.

[ArsenalFan7]

You don't need shouts at all. The only time I bother to use them now is in the really big games, the ones I might actually lose unless I try.

However as I was developing Napoli, shouts may have helped my side go that extra bit further at times. Now I'm just too lazy.

[omaroo]

Shouts are not needed from the start of a match, anyone who tells you otherwise probably doesn't truly understand the tactical side of FM, I only employ shouts as the match progresses & even then it is rare for me to do so.

Ye I just rely on my tactics throughout the match, I have never used shouts pre match or during the match in an fm version.

If it makes me not as good as others then fine, but I really don't favour shouts and don't believe it can have a big impact on a match.

Thanks for your help.

[omaroo]

You don't need shouts at all. The only time I bother to use them now is in the really big games, the ones I might actually lose unless I try.

However as I was developing Napoli, shouts may have helped my side go that extra bit further at times. Now I'm just too lazy.

Ye, but in big games I assume tinkering with tactics during the match if need be would be enough.