The Santos Experience

[jimbobBRFC]

I'll be getting around to the 442 next

I look forward to it

[Guest]

Interesting read. I play FM dedicated in Brazil mostly so il bookmark this

[tomadeira08]

I have noticed how the new team reports has made me think about the opposition formations I am facing a lot more.

Like I mentioned in another post, I was playing HSV last night. Just a quick look you noticed that they have been conceding many but scoring many too.

But I have found the assist table so handy. Just a quick look at that and I knew where I needed to focus on cutting off the supply. Playing against a standard 4-4-2 12 out of 19 goals came from the winger supply. Although my 4-2-3-1 naturally had the advantage through the middle for attacking process. But managed to mute there wiongers with some tactical instructions despite my rubbish full backs.

Much more useful then previous team scouting reports.

[Sammie B]

No I don't change anything except long shots for all players. I do however change the strategy depending on the type of game and if I'm favourites or if I think a team ia dangerous.

do you turn long shots on everyone to rarely? dont change anyones passing to short?

[Cleon]

do you turn long shots on everyone to rarely? dont change anyones passing to short?

Everyone rarely for long shots yeah and no other changes unless stated

[Sammie B]

Everyone rarely for long shots yeah and no other changes unless stated

Thanks! Working a right treat at the moment, defensively and attacking wise!

[Cleon]

Thanks! Working a right treat at the moment, defensively and attacking wise!

You using the same tactic I posted then? Who you using it with?

[Sammie B]

You using the same tactic I posted then? Who you using it with?

Not exactly, but similar. Cover/stopper at back and trequartista up top, part from that is the same. Im Arsenal, just need to tighten up on set pieces letting a few in (surprise, surprise)

[Cleon]

Not exactly, but similar. Cover/stopper at back and trequartista up top, part from that is the same. Im Arsenal, just need to tighten up on set pieces letting a few in (surprise, surprise)

So exact same then, as that's what I use:D

[Sammie B]

So exact same then, as that's what I use:D

Wahaaay any idea how to tighten up from set plays? will do match preparation on it once formation familarity is full

[CortoMaltese]

using your formation with bolton the only change i have made is the striker from trequartista to poacher and it's working excellent.

do you change strategy against bigger clubs like Man UTD/City or Chelsea?

[Hellas2]

Hi Cleon, fantastic thread!

Can I just confirm a few things I am slightly confused about

- Do you use your custom shouts every game at the start or as a reaction to what is happening on the pitch e.g. against a side that are hard to break down or one over running the middle

- You say against the 4222 that you increase the width to maximum and set the exploit the flanks shout, I take it this is what you do before starting the match on realisation the opposition are set up as such

- Is there any particular reason for using a Stopper / Cover CB partnership on your 442 but both set up as Defenders in the 451/433?

Looking forward to hearing how you set up to take on other systems

[Cleon]

Hi Cleon, fantastic thread!

Can I just confirm a few things I am slightly confused about

Thanks, I'll try and answer any question I can

Do you use your custom shouts every game at the start or as a reaction to what is happening on the pitch e.g. against a side that are hard to break down or one over running the middle

Aye I only use them in reaction to how a game is going. I normally give 10-15 in game minute time . Then after that you can normally tell if you need to change things or not.

- You say against the 4222 that you increase the width to maximum and set the exploit the flanks shout, I take it this is what you do before starting the match on realisation the opposition are set up as such

I do yeah

- Is there any particular reason for using a Stopper / Cover CB partnership on your 442 but both set up as Defenders in the 451/433?

The 451/433 will probably end up the same, it's just that I've used the 442 a lot more so its a lot more developed long term.

[Hellas2]

Thanks Cleon

Im currently managing in Italy with Juventus and trying to implement a similar sort of 442 to you but changing the roles of the front two a bit sometimes pushing one back into the AMC position (for a 4411) with some success

[Colorado]

Great thread, interesting to see how you fare in Brazil. Best league to play FM imo.

[john1]

Really enjoy reading this. KIU Cleon!

[aderow]

Nice to see you making something special out of the 442

You seem to have everything under control as far as your team is concerned.

The one thing that I always seem to lose control of is my squad size. Right now I've got something like 4-5 world class playmakers in my first team. And in my youth side, I think I've unknowingly amassed a group of 9 strikers with 2.5-3 star potential.

I wish I had more brazilian youngsters....

[Cleon]

Nice to see you making something special out of the 442

You seem to have everything under control as far as your team is concerned.

The one thing that I always seem to lose control of is my squad size. Right now I've got something like 4-5 world class playmakers in my first team. And in my youth side, I think I've unknowingly amassed a group of 9 strikers with 2.5-3 star potential.

I wish I had more brazilian youngsters....

Who you playing as? I was just reading a post by you in GD, how spooky is that

I've not forgot about the thread, I will update just had a very hectic week that's all

[aderow]

Who you playing as? I was just reading a post by you in GD, how spooky is that

I've not forgot about the thread, I will update just had a very hectic week that's all

I'm manchester united (as always). That might change whenever I eventually pick up FM12. Lol that is a little spooky

Its all good mate. We all have busy weeks mate.

We all look forward to your next update

[dz47]

Cleon, you’ll probably get around to addressing this when you have some time to add more content to this thread, but I’m finding FM 11 incredibly frustrating at the moment compared to fm10 (as I mentioned before....I’m a bit behind the FM times!). The three main differences I’ve noticed in the ME are; pass rates of MC’s (seems much harder to get 50+ passes per game from main playmaker); very poor finishing even from good positions/good players (not just hitting it straight at the keeper, but blazing it wildly into the stands from all angles); and bizarre behaviour from wide players (either trying to shoot from crazy angles or getting to the byline, stop running, wait a little bit, and then very gently ‘tap’ the ball into the defender!). I’m sure there are ways to combat these issues and get a good system going, so I’m trying to ‘keep the faith’!

So anyway, my plan is to adopt your 451/433 formation (playing as Arsenal) and then hang out in this thread annoying you (and others) with questions until I get a tactic that works, so that I can finally get onto an enjoyable and long-term save (no pressure mind you!).

So just to get me started, are you able to tell me in the 451/433 if you have the deep lying playmaker or advanced playmaker set as the designated PM, or do you have none? If you could answer the same questions for TM (selection, set to) it’d be very much appreciated! Cheers in advance.

[Cleon]

Cleon, you’ll probably get around to addressing this when you have some time to add more content to this thread, but I’m finding FM 11 incredibly frustrating at the moment compared to fm10 (as I mentioned before....I’m a bit behind the FM times!). The three main differences I’ve noticed in the ME are; pass rates of MC’s (seems much harder to get 50+ passes per game from main playmaker); very poor finishing even from good positions/good players (not just hitting it straight at the keeper, but blazing it wildly into the stands from all angles); and bizarre behaviour from wide players (either trying to shoot from crazy angles or getting to the byline, stop running, wait a little bit, and then very gently ‘tap’ the ball into the defender!). I’m sure there are ways to combat these issues and get a good system going, so I’m trying to ‘keep the faith’!

So anyway, my plan is to adopt your 451/433 formation (playing as Arsenal) and then hang out in this thread annoying you (and others) with questions until I get a tactic that works, so that I can finally get onto an enjoyable and long-term save (no pressure mind you!).

So just to get me started, are you able to tell me in the 451/433 if you have the deep lying playmaker or advanced playmaker set as the designated PM, or do you have none? If you could answer the same questions for TM (selection, set to) it’d be very much appreciated! Cheers in advance.

I don't use a TM, its a Treq not a TM in the screenshots

And the Treq is the playmaker.

[dz47]

Ok but now I'm a bit confused as the screen shot of the 451 at the top of the thread shows the fc as an advanced fwd does it not? If that has changed since are there any of the other roles that are different to that original screen shot?

[Cleon]

Sorry I was on about the 442 hahaha. Nah everything is as it is in the screenshots . In the 451 the DLP is the main playmaker and I don't use a TM

[dz47]

Cool. seeing as you have had such a busy week I'll let you off just this once! even though you don't have a designated tm, how do you supply set? mixed or to feet?

Also, do you think it would make much difference if I set the PM to the advanced playmaker? The reason I ask is I was planning on buying Vidal to play the deep pm role as he would add more defensive stability (and he is a good passer and has decent creativity) and then play Fabregas as the advanced PM? Cheers.

[Cleon]

Cool. seeing as you have had such a busy week I'll let you off just this once! even though you don't have a designated tm, how do you supply set? mixed or to feet?

Also, do you think it would make much difference if I set the PM to the advanced playmaker? The reason I ask is I was planning on buying Vidal to play the deep pm role as he would add more defensive stability (and he is a good passer and has decent creativity) and then play Fabregas as the advanced PM? Cheers.

I'm getting married Saturday, so busy as hell lol

I just leave the supply set to whatever the default it, I've not touched it.

Well you have a DMC so you don't need more defensive cover, if you make the central players more defensive then the whole shape wont work as well. The DMC player should be fine if he has the right stats. The two MC's work really well together and sometimes the AP is the more creative outlet due to the DLP passing the ball to him higher up the field. If you changed that to the AP then that wouldn't happen as often.

[dz47]

Good luck to you then...though it will no doubt mean less FM-time for you;) So would you maybe instead look to use something like Fabregas (DLP) and nasri (APM), or even Wilshere (DLP) and Fabregas (APM). Those would both be pretty attacking set ups.

[Cleon]

Good luck to you then...though it will no doubt mean less FM-time for you;) So would you maybe instead look to use something like Fabregas (DLP) and nasri (APM), or even Wilshere (DLP) and Fabregas (APM). Those would both be pretty attacking set ups.

Use the better distributer of the ball as the DLP, so go for decisions, teamwork, passing, anticipation, flair, creativity, first touch, technique, composure.

Use the player who as the above stats better overall

[Morphiushell]

Hi Cleon,

I am playing as Rangers and wanted to know when I pick my formation should I change each position to match what the assistant manager says each players best suited to or should I make a formation that is balanced and put the players in that formation as best I can then buy better players who can play those positions later.

If this is the case then would it not be best to use the games standard formations as they will most likely be very balanced.

[Cleon]

Hi Cleon,

I am playing as Rangers and wanted to know when I pick my formation should I change each position to match what the assistant manager says each players best suited to or should I make a formation that is balanced and put the players in that formation as best I can then buy better players who can play those positions later.

If this is the case then would it not be best to use the games standard formations as they will most likely be very balanced.

Play the style you want to play. You can listen to the assistant and do it that way but then like you mentioned it might not be very balanced depending on the roles. Start off with the standard shape you want to play, then watch a few games on full and see how players play when you give them different roles.

[dz47]

Well, that would be Fabregas, hands down! Final question for the night...promise! What's the rationale for the counter strategy? Do you always play this way or alter it match by match? I just played my first friendly with the 451 against Shrewsbury (League 2) and won 5-0. Scoreline was nothing particularly special against a much weaker side, but a couple of interesting things did happen. I had 65% possession and 88% pass completion. Fabregas (DLP) completed 28/31 passes in 45 minutes. Due to the counter strategy, he played very deep and the vast majority of his passes were 'possession' based, with a large number of these played backwards to the defensive five. Basically he dictated play from deep. I also had 15 shots (much less than in my previous games with other tactics) and while only 6 of these were on target and 2 CCC, I scored 5 goals. There was a good mix of goals as well; one 2nd effort after a corner; a nice lob over the keeper from RVP (FC); a smart finish from walcott (AML) after running onto a through ball from RVP; a curling shot from the edge of the box from Arshavin (AMR); and the last one where Chamakh (FC) got into the box to get onto the end of a nice cross from Lansbury. I know it's only the first game, but these are the kind of goals I was struggling to score previously. So, so far, so good. I'm guessing that the lower tempo of the 'counter' strategy is leading to less scoring chances, but better quality chances. I'll keep persisting and updating. Thanks for your help so far Cleon, and best of luck with the wedding

[Cleon]

Well, that would be Fabregas, hands down! Final question for the night...promise! What's the rationale for the counter strategy? Do you always play this way or alter it match by match? I just played my first friendly with the 451 against Shrewsbury (League 2) and won 5-0. Scoreline was nothing particularly special against a much weaker side, but a couple of interesting things did happen. I had 65% possession and 88% pass completion. Fabregas (DLP) completed 28/31 passes in 45 minutes. Due to the counter strategy, he played very deep and the vast majority of his passes were 'possession' based, with a large number of these played backwards to the defensive five. Basically he dictated play from deep. I also had 15 shots (much less than in my previous games with other tactics) and while only 6 of these were on target and 2 CCC, I scored 5 goals. There was a good mix of goals as well; one 2nd effort after a corner; a nice lob over the keeper from RVP (FC); a smart finish from walcott (AML) after running onto a through ball from RVP; a curling shot from the edge of the box from Arshavin (AMR); and the last one where Chamakh (FC) got into the box to get onto the end of a nice cross from Lansbury. I know it's only the first game, but these are the kind of goals I was struggling to score previously. So, so far, so good. I'm guessing that the lower tempo of the 'counter' strategy is leading to less scoring chances, but better quality chances. I'll keep persisting and updating. Thanks for your help so far Cleon, and best of luck with the wedding

I like to break fast especially if you have pace in the squad. I've scored a bucket load of goals by playing on the counter.

I'm happy to answer any questions you have

[dz47]

Well you have a DMC so you don't need more defensive cover, if you make the central players more defensive then the whole shape wont work as well. The DMC player should be fine if he has the right stats. The two MC's work really well together and sometimes the AP is the more creative outlet due to the DLP passing the ball to him higher up the field. If you changed that to the AP then that wouldn't happen as often.

Hi Cleon, just been thinking some more about your comments on this bit, and how I would like to see my team play. When I said I was looking to get Vidal to play DLP and provide more defensive stability, I didn’t mean a defensive role as such. I have used him a bit in FM11 and I see him as probably the most complete midfielder in the game (that can be bought at the start at least....I know there are more ‘elite’ CM’s). He is very good on the ball, very mobile and aggressive, quite good mentals (and probably some room for development), and an excellent tackler. He also has quite useful PPM’s. The ability to make an excellent tackle (on top of the more attacking attributes) is what keeps my mind coming back to him. When I have used him previously I constantly see him win important balls in the middle, which he can then lay on to more attacking players. Given the pressing, counter attack game that I would be playing with your set up, I would have thought that would be a real asset to the team overall, and it is something that no-one else in my starting squad is capable of. This could then allow Cesc to play the more advanced role. Obviously this would mean he wouldn’t make as many passes, but he would make more attacking passes and would regularly be in the right place to play the killer final ball. This is something he is far more capable of than any other player in my team. Nasri (who I would probably use as the advanced PM otherwise) is very technical and capable, but the ‘killer ball’ is not really his bread and butter.

Anyway, I appreciate your thoughts on this. I understand what you say in terms of this set up playing differently to what you have described in your Santos set up. But I guess my question is (now that I have hopefully explained my overall thinking better!) would you see the ‘positives’ of my suggested set up making up for the ‘negatives’ that you have previously highlighted? Cheers.

[Cleon]

Hi Cleon, just been thinking some more about your comments on this bit, and how I would like to see my team play. When I said I was looking to get Vidal to play DLP and provide more defensive stability, I didn’t mean a defensive role as such. I have used him a bit in FM11 and I see him as probably the most complete midfielder in the game (that can be bought at the start at least....I know there are more ‘elite’ CM’s). He is very good on the ball, very mobile and aggressive, quite good mentals (and probably some room for development), and an excellent tackler. He also has quite useful PPM’s. The ability to make an excellent tackle (on top of the more attacking attributes) is what keeps my mind coming back to him. When I have used him previously I constantly see him win important balls in the middle, which he can then lay on to more attacking players. Given the pressing, counter attack game that I would be playing with your set up, I would have thought that would be a real asset to the team overall, and it is something that no-one else in my starting squad is capable of. This could then allow Cesc to play the more advanced role. Obviously this would mean he wouldn’t make as many passes, but he would make more attacking passes and would regularly be in the right place to play the killer final ball. This is something he is far more capable of than any other player in my team. Nasri (who I would probably use as the advanced PM otherwise) is very technical and capable, but the ‘killer ball’ is not really his bread and butter.

Anyway, I appreciate your thoughts on this. I understand what you say in terms of this set up playing differently to what you have described in your Santos set up. But I guess my question is (now that I have hopefully explained my overall thinking better!) would you see the ‘positives’ of my suggested set up making up for the ‘negatives’ that you have previously highlighted? Cheers.

I see the positives yeah but I'd rather still play someone with the required attributes to dictate the pace of the game from deep. Having defensive attributes are a added bonus but Vidal lacks the team work attribute. And seeing as the DLP is all about playing other people in Vidal just seems the wrong choice for me. I'm not saying he can't do the role effective as he can. But he'll be a lot more selfish than someone else who is a team player.

I don't know how he is on your game but on all my games Vidal has 7 concentration, 9 decisions, 9 off the ball and 6 teamwork. There important attributes for the DLP role. Its nice that he can tackle and win the ball back but thats his secondary role in the tactic. It's more important for me that he can dictate the play of the game and influence it from deep, rather than be someone who can win the ball back.

[dz47]

OK, i think that might be part of the problem you are seeing that I'm not! I'm on 11.3 and Vidal has 16 passing, 17 tackling, 15 concentration, 14 decisions, 16 anticipation, 13 composure, 15 creativity, 15 positioning, 9 off ball, 14 teamwork, & 19 workrate. The only real concern there to me is the off ball, and to a lesser extent teamwork, but i reckon I could get both up a couple of points. I just can't help but think that it would be a bit of a waste to play Fabregas in that role as he will play so deep and most of his passes will likely be backwards/sideways. I should add that my longer term thinking was that Ramsey would eventually take over the DLP role (he is still out with a broken leg in my game) and Wilshere would take on the Adv PM role.

[Cleon]

OK, i think that might be part of the problem you are seeing that I'm not! I'm on 11.3 and Vidal has 16 passing, 17 tackling, 15 concentration, 14 decisions, 16 anticipation, 13 composure, 15 creativity, 15 positioning, 9 off ball, 14 teamwork, & 19 workrate. The only real concern there to me is the off ball, and to a lesser extent teamwork, but i reckon I could get both up a couple of points. I just can't help but think that it would be a bit of a waste to play Fabregas in that role as he will play so deep and most of his passes will likely be backwards/sideways. I should add that my longer term thinking was that Ramsey would eventually take over the DLP role (he is still out with a broken leg in my game) and Wilshere would take on the Adv PM role.

Ahh sorry I didn't realise you was playing FM11 my bad

Remember to take into account any PPM's a player might have though. Doesn't Fabregas have the 'dictate tempo' one? I find that more usefull for a deep player as he can really get hold of a game and decide what pace its played at. Give Vidal a go though and see how it works. You can always swap them around if its not working for you

[dz47]

I just checked my game (wasn't on my computer before) and I had Vidal's stats slightly wrong, he has 12 decisions, 12 composure, 14 concentration, 8 off ball and 15 teamwork. He also has PPM's dictates tempo, comes deep, and plays 1-2's

[Cleon]

I just checked my game (wasn't on my computer before) and I had Vidal's stats slightly wrong, he has 12 decisions, 12 composure, 14 concentration, 8 off ball and 15 teamwork. He also has PPM's dictates tempo, comes deep, and plays 1-2's

Who are you playing as? Because if your a top side then those stats aren't really good. For a mid table side they'd be fine but not top class imo.

[dz47]

I'm Arsenal, and those are some of his worst stats

[Cleon]

I'm Arsenal, and those are some of his worst stats

Yeah but for the role he will be playin he needs them. You might get away with it, but someone more suiting would be a better choice imo

[dz47]

Grrr I thought you might say that Maybe I should stick with Fabregas then. Although M'Vila would probably develop into the role well! Better mental stats, more balanced. While I'm at it, what do you think of Mirko Vucinic for the AML role? Never used him before but has very well rounded technical (16 finishing, 15 passing, 18 dribbling, 18 technique), mental (15 anticipation, 15 composure, 14 concentration, 16 creativity, 17 decisions, 17 off ball) and physical stats (15 pace and acceleration, 18 agility).

[Cleon]

Grrr I thought you might say that Maybe I should stick with Fabregas then. Although M'Vila would probably develop into the role well! Better mental stats, more balanced. While I'm at it, what do you think of Mirko Vucinic for the AML role? Never used him before but has very well rounded technical (16 finishing, 15 passing, 18 dribbling, 18 technique), mental (15 anticipation, 15 composure, 14 concentration, 16 creativity, 17 decisions, 17 off ball) and physical stats (15 pace and acceleration, 18 agility).

Never used him myself but he seems good

[Cleon]

dz47 - Did you try him?

[dz47]

No haven't had a chance to play since. Actually thinking about re-starting and going for a 4231 was Cesc as a tq. Was reading your posts in another thread about getting the am to perform as the main playmaker, and thinking about giving that a go. I think that might suit my squad better and me to play Cesc as main playmaker but a more attacking role. I'll probably still get Vucinic as I reckon he'll thrive off Cesc's creativity! I see from that thread your santos set up seems to have evolved. Will look forward to reading more about that when you get the time. All the best for your wedding too!

[Cleon]

No haven't had a chance to play since. Actually thinking about re-starting and going for a 4231 was Cesc as a tq. Was reading your posts in another thread about getting the am to perform as the main playmaker, and thinking about giving that a go. I think that might suit my squad better and me to play Cesc as main playmaker but a more attacking role. I'll probably still get Vucinic as I reckon he'll thrive off Cesc's creativity! I see from that thread your santos set up seems to have evolved. Will look forward to reading more about that when you get the time. All the best for your wedding too!

I've wrote up season one in full and season two now. I will be starting season 3 when back off honeymoon. I don't have time to post it all up now though sadly as that will take about 3 hours just to post all the info up, as its quite large and detailed. I'm using the 4-3-3/4-5-1 hybrid in the 3rd season.

[Aquaplex]

Clean, first of all great threat as usual. I wanted to ask you about your game strategy that you mentioned in one of your prior posts. How do you approach each game strategy wise (ie attacking, control.. etc) based on game odds so so forth? This was something i always had trouble with. Like if i'm starting out attacking at home vs a team the odds say i should beat, do i switch over to control if i go 1-0 or 2-0 and such. Do you ever take weather into consideration? Also if you could further discuss how to exploit various formations if you're using the most common ones yourself like 442/4231/451 (or at least point me to a thread about such a discussion). Thanks again for your yearly in-game threads, they're fantastic.

[Hellas2]

I've wrote up season one in full and season two now. I will be starting season 3 when back off honeymoon. I don't have time to post it all up now though sadly as that will take about 3 hours just to post all the info up, as its quite large and detailed. I'm using the 4-3-3/4-5-1 hybrid in the 3rd season.

Good news about all this!

Where are (will?) the season 1 and 2 updates located?

I had great success using something similar to your 442 with Juventus winning the league and cup double in first season...Dropped the Deep Lying Striker to AMC (Advanced Playmaker) and the CM AP to DLP and it worked a treat with the players at my disposal

[Rykjvk]

Good read this, very interesting indeed.. I've been trying to get a 442 to work, but it's been very inconsistent for me, with my limited tactical knowledge..

Congratulations on marrying Cleon! At least, I trust she did not run out on you in front of the altar?

[Cleon]

Clean, first of all great threat as usual. I wanted to ask you about your game strategy that you mentioned in one of your prior posts. How do you approach each game strategy wise (ie attacking, control.. etc) based on game odds so so forth? This was something i always had trouble with. Like if i'm starting out attacking at home vs a team the odds say i should beat, do i switch over to control if i go 1-0 or 2-0 and such. Do you ever take weather into consideration? Also if you could further discuss how to exploit various formations if you're using the most common ones yourself like 442/4231/451 (or at least point me to a thread about such a discussion). Thanks again for your yearly in-game threads, they're fantastic.

I go into detail about all of this but haven't got time to post it up for atleast 10 days due to going on honeymoon tomorrow

Good news about all this!

Where are (will?) the season 1 and 2 updates located?

I had great success using something similar to your 442 with Juventus winning the league and cup double in first season...Dropped the Deep Lying Striker to AMC (Advanced Playmaker) and the CM AP to DLP and it worked a treat with the players at my disposal

I'll be adding it all up in anew thread and turn this one into the discussion one

Good read this, very interesting indeed.. I've been trying to get a 442 to work, but it's been very inconsistent for me, with my limited tactical knowledge..

Congratulations on marrying Cleon! At least, I trust she did not run out on you in front of the altar?

No he didn't run out on me, sadly hahah (I'm a female btw, dunno why people think I'm a bloke)

[tuffers007]

I go into detail about all of this but haven't got time to post it up for atleast 10 days due to going on honeymoon tomorrow

I'll be adding it all up in anew thread and turn this one into the discussion one

No he didn't run out on me, sadly hahah (I'm a female btw, dunno why people think I'm a bloke)

i have to admit i presumed you were male, finding out your a woman has just sent my respect for you through the roof!!! as i dont think there is enough women in football as it. enjoy your honeymoon and look forward to your season review

[Kamil-S]

I'll be adding it all up in anew thread and turn this one into the discussion one

This one?