Does FM need a facelift?

[DivineOne]

Originally posted by Box:

In this day and age I think most serious PC gamers have a PC capable of running half decent graphics. Besides, we aren't talking having the game turn into crysis, jsut a little more appealing and inspiring. The fact that FM will currently play on my work PC which is 8 years old says that FM is way behind in terms of hardware requirements anyway!

But you're talking only about the UI, right? That would be possible, but not necessary.

I'm talking about 3D matches. And even if it were possible. You can't possibly decently translate the stats into actions in the field. It would be quite impossible to make it even look like the match you want. Some day, some day ...

[DivineOne]

Originally posted by DivineOne:

But you're talking only about the UI, right? That would be possible, but not necessary. for me

[Kazza]

Hi

When I got involved in this very good exchange of ideas, debate etc I was after a makeover (ala Trinny & Susan); I did not want FM to:

*Go FIFA 3D - not that interested

*Lose gameplay for looks - not interested

I think most of us have decent PC's and we are not after as Box said "Crysis type graphics".

Yes continue to improve match engine and get the reputation right as well as better media/coach interaction and so on.

But that should not prevent FM having a fresh coat of paint, a few neat new shiny baubles (as long as they add and not detract). I really do think that FM has to move forward, it cannot/should not imho stay as is.

Now I also realise that I have not put any concrete ideas forward though I would like to hear from SI about whether or not the "suggestion" of a makeover is viable/desirable/imminent!

Keep the debate flowing...

[FrostyTheBush]

I don't know if anyone really knows how a development house works, but there are seperate teams working on UI/graphical assets and gameplay, surely they collaberate, but working on one will not negatively impact the work on the other.

Most people here are assuming that people want a 3D view ala FIFA 08, not the case, it's the way ChampMan does it that would be preferred, the game looks alot more involved, and would just be a step forward for the presentation of the game.

[pelicanstuff]

Originally posted by Box:

This SI what is holding FM back - SI are scared to implement a better graphical user interface because they are affraid of the backlash from the stuff old die hards who again look upon FM's competitors with contempt rather than looking at the best features and thinking;-

"wow, if SI done that bit in FM it would awesome and it would probably even work!"

Frankly I find the UI in most of these other games completely unntuitive. It would be like changing from the menue that made sense in Word 2003 and before to the completely random but flashy looking ones in Word 2007. It might just be because I've been playing FM since it was CM1 with the fake players, and extremely heavily since CM2 italia, but there you go. The diehards make up a significant proportion of the fan/money base, and to alienate them would be suicidal.

[Kriss]

Honestly though they have probably finished development already and are just bug hunting and the like

Which illustrates your knowledge perfectly, you know zilch!

[Box]

Frankly I find the UI in most of these other games completely unntuitive. It would be like changing from the menue that made sense in Word 2003 and before to the completely random but flashy looking ones in Word 2007. It might just be because I've been playing FM since it was CM1 with the fake players, and extremely heavily since CM2 italia, but there you go. The diehards make up a significant proportion of the fan/money base, and to alienate them would be suicidal.

The interface is so much more different that that of the interface of the old CM series. In fact the old series was closer to having a better GUI than the new one. At least there was a "home" the give you a nice graphical layout of all the different areas of the game (the screen that had the big menu boxes on). Reverting back to that approach would be great but obviously bringin it upto date and make it more appealing, I don't want to go into specifics of how, because I'm not imaginative enough to do so and some kids on this forum take ideas far too literally.

Again, as I've already said, the current Skin system and layout works fine, I'm just saying perhaps it's time they take a different approach because we are getting to the stage where we should really be able to have both an appealing and inspiring GUI as well as the traditional playable FM engine. All that is needed/wanted is something to make you feel part of the football world and remind you what a football pitch or stadium actually looks like! lol

I think people on this thread are getting bogged down with the specifics, the guy who posted initially was just banding ideas around, and the fact is he's right. There's no reason SI shouldn't be looking to make the game more graphical, as well as adding new features and tweaking old ones to make them work.

After 16 years of focusing on the game play/data element, I think it's time they brushed up on the weakest chink in the FM armour - the graphics!

[Themistofelis]

SI (as proved in latest releases) wants to make a hard game even harder , this for me and other casual players is like a kick in the teeth , there are simply too many variables totally out of your control , too many hidden parameters to take into account .

IMO what new fm needs is a change of mentality by it's developers.

[FrostyTheBush]

Originally posted by Kriss:

Which illustrates your knowledge perfectly, you know zilch!

Thanks for the insult. Maybe I was wrong in what I said, but I was recalling what a developer said, maybe it was more akin to the feature list/develpment plan being finished, so new ideas wouldn't be implemented until the next installment.

To the OP, these are the type of things you mean correct?

http://img132.imageshack.us/my.php?image=attributesak4.jpg

http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=matchflowlj8.jpg

http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=overviewoy4.jpg

These all showcase better presentation of the data that is already given by the game, but is alot easier to digest, which in effect frees up your time to do other thing ie playing the game and not stat hunting, or whatever.

All these UI mock-ups were made by another user on the forums, StanPetrov, not me.

[Mravac Kid]

That looks pretty good.

But I don't like that kind of empty-space usage, without much information. In fact, I'd rather have a list of several players in each of those categories than a pic of one player with a big number on it. In fact, that's one of the things I dislike about FM as it is, it names one player as the opposition's key man, but the opposition usually has at least 3 people who are a danger.

[Super Bladesman]

Originally posted by FrostyTheBush:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kriss:

Which illustrates your knowledge perfectly, you know zilch!

Thanks for the insult. Maybe I was wrong in what I said, but I was recalling what a developer said, maybe it was more akin to the feature list/develpment plan being finished, so new ideas wouldn't be implemented until the next installment.

To the OP, these are the type of things you mean correct?

http://img132.imageshack.us/my.php?image=attributesak4.jpg

http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=matchflowlj8.jpg

http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=overviewoy4.jpg

These all showcase better presentation of the data that is already given by the game, but is alot easier to digest, which in effect frees up your time to do other thing ie playing the game and not stat hunting, or whatever.

All these UI mock-ups were made by another user on the forums, StanPetrov, not me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some really interest ideas there Frosty, good work. I like the idea of having the option to use the faces more, but you'd need the text name as well. Definitely something to think of though.

[shwan]

Originally posted by backpackant:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ryan,,,:

I played cm3 and cm00/01. Unaware that the creators of cm had changed to FM I bought both cm2006 and cm2007. On 2007 they had pro-zone. What is the point! I never used it once! It's a load of crap to me!

The only thing better is the matches are in 3D, other than that they're crap!

Their "3d" is ice skating cluedo pieces and adds nothing at all to the game play.

with so many decent-to-excellent skins made by fans, why not put half a dozen of them on the disk as options and keep everyone happy?

Like the idea. Seem to remember a couple of skins being available in 01/02. Or that might just have been fonts. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

totaly disagree,

in 2d match u can't see and know if player using his head or is he doing some tricks with his chest or he is heading the ball or using his legs

CM engine show a bit more, but FIFA 3d show more about that,

and the AI is keeping improving, remember AI for FIFAM is not same as FIFA although based on it, and u forge that AI is not easy task and FIFAM is only 6 years old, and CM only 4 years old .

both games are in right way

[shwan]

Originally posted by Box:

I think people are getting too concerned and distracted with how poor FIFA manager's gameplay is, and assuming that those nice graphics and nice GUI that do that. It's fair to say EA have invested more into them than the gameplay it's self, which is why the game is so bad, but it has to be said the game is visually stunning.

What we want is SI to look towards applying that kind of standard and having more involving and inspiring graphical interfaces and imagery. Like it or not, that is where the future of the genre lies.

We arent presented with an option of sacraficing gameplay for good visuals - FM ALREADY has the gameplay! They should now look at making the data easier to digest and more appealing, dare I say it, even impressive!

u have to see out side the box, Box

FIFAM new AI is only become indepdnat of FIFA since 2 years, and it is still underhard work, and need more AI details than 2d, as u have to deal with player using thier chest or tht part of legs ..etc, somthing 2d DEV don't deal with, but reasltic wise, the first option if perfect, it gonna be more realstic.

then u forget that most of FIFAM users were some peopel who swiched from FM,

and games start to outsell FM in other coutnreis outside UK, i know they do in germany and spain, when they topped the sales, and in aslt voting 50% of german users were using iit for text version only not even 3d.

so sure there is more in that game than just 3d.

and FM started to impleemnt many of thier new ideas too, so sure they are creative enough to push thier game further. and i feel FM should do the same, they need to be brave, like BF or BGS are doing for FIFAM or CM. not let the initiative as it happening now in hand of others, then we copy from them.

[Kriss]

quote:

Originally posted by Kriss:

Which illustrates your knowledge perfectly, you know zilch!

Thanks for the insult. Maybe I was wrong in what I said, but I was recalling what a developer said, maybe it was more akin to the feature list/develpment plan being finished, so new ideas wouldn't be implemented until the next installment.

The insult was thoroughly deserved because your comment couldn't have been wider of the mark

They've been working hard for a long time on FM09 and will be right up till a few days before release.

To redesign the presentational graphics is a huge task, it could be prettied up but the excellent skinners already provide plenty of good alternatives.

There are also at least two user made sound packs which are really good.

I quite like the examples but they are just a rearrangement of what's already there basically.

Certainly wouldn't have a problem with that sort of change.

Who knows, it may be happening as we speak

[Kriss]

but FIFA 3d show more about that,

Except it doesn't they are pre made sequences replayed, not intuitive movement based on the ME.

When that arrives 3D becomes the medium, it's not about to happen.

[Ter]

They've been working hard for a long time on FM09 and will be right up till a few days before release.

Even though we'll still be working hard a few days before the release, it's a bit late to change anything then as the game will either already be at stores or in distribution centres

To redesign the presentational graphics is a huge task, it could be prettied up but the excellent skinners already provide plenty of good alternatives.

It certainly is a massive task and it's not something that just involves putting a new skin on there. There is a lot of design time and coding time involved as well. There shouldn't be the excuse of there being lots of skins in the community as well as we should be working hard to make the game look as good as it can, and that is what we're aiming for. It's a nice bonus and a good alternative for people to have community skins to download as well and long may it continue.

[pelicanstuff]

Originally posted by Mravac Kid:

That looks pretty good.

But I don't like that kind of empty-space usage, without much information. In fact, I'd rather have a list of several players in each of those categories than a pic of one player with a big number on it. In fact, that's one of the things I dislike about FM as it is, it names one player as the opposition's key man, but the opposition usually has at least 3 people who are a danger.

I agree with some of this.

Also, having player faces up without names like in some of those mock-ups might work well for bigger clubs, but do you really expect people to have to learn to recognize every lower league player as well?

I didn't like the split news at all in 08, to be honest - it's one of the reasons I don't play it anymore. As it is, I generally find the menus well organised and efficient in their use of space, and it rarely takes me any more than 3 seconds to get to any given screen.

[Myros]

Originally posted by Kriss:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">but FIFA 3d show more about that,

Except it doesn't they are pre made sequences replayed, not intuitive movement based on the ME.

When that arrives 3D becomes the medium, it's not about to happen. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

FIFA doesnt have 'pre made sequences' in its 3d engine, it's all real time processing based on team and player skills/stats.

Not as detailed as the processing for FM of course, but it's getting there.

M

[shwan]

Originally posted by Myros:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kriss:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">but FIFA 3d show more about that,

Except it doesn't they are pre made sequences replayed, not intuitive movement based on the ME.

When that arrives 3D becomes the medium, it's not about to happen. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

FIFA doesnt have 'pre made sequences' in its 3d engine, it's all real time processing based on team and player skills/stats.

Not as detailed as the processing for FM of course, but it's getting there.

M </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

100% spot on

[pelicanstuff]

Originally posted by shwan:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Myros:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kriss:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">but FIFA 3d show more about that,

Except it doesn't they are pre made sequences replayed, not intuitive movement based on the ME.

When that arrives 3D becomes the medium, it's not about to happen. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

FIFA doesnt have 'pre made sequences' in its 3d engine, it's all real time processing based on team and player skills/stats.

Not as detailed as the processing for FM of course, but it's getting there.

M </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

100% spot on </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

but there's quite a limited number of animations. The engine is constrained by those.