WC2010 Tactics Discussion - Group E - Cameroon, Denmark, Netherlands, Japan

Thread to discuss tactics for Group E teams.

Please keep the discussion on-topic and specific to the teams in this group.

I hope the Netherlands will reach the last 16, Denmark and Cameroon are the strongest opponents, If the Netherlands win the first match against Denmark, they made a big step for the last 16, if they lose.. everything is possible......

Netherland shall win in this grp

Cameroon are a really interesting side. They don't have any natural wingers, so they end up putting full backs or strikers out wide.

They have some outstanding holding players in Makoun and Song, and Matip will be at their level if he sorts his attitude out. Emana is the only real creative player. I imagine Idrissou will partner Eto'o up front ahead of Webo to give a bit of an outlet because of that.

Being a fan of football, not my nation, I support Holland as I admire the way they play. So obviously I hope they progress and I can see them doing so with relative ease, just look at the attacking options they have with two very good holding midfielders in de Jong and van Bommell (I think he's still playing?).

The real competition will be for 2nd place. Denmark are no mugs and are a physical team, whereas Japan showed today they can put up a fight against stronger teams. Cameroon could be interesting, I highly rate them as a team, but I compare them to Wigan. It depends which team shows up, either the one who puts up a fight against the best and gets results. Or the "Mr Hyde" and just collapse. Of course it also all depends on how Eto'o, Makoun, Song and Emana play.

I expect Holland to go through, with Denmark nicking 2nd place off Cameroon.

Cameroon and Denmark both have very strong spines. I think Eto'o will give Cameroon the advantage, despite Denmark's strong defensive pairing. Agger and Kjaer are the traditional "cover-stopper" partnership, and I'd encourage anybody who wants to see how that partnership works to catch Denmark's matches.

Agger and Kjaer are the traditional "cover-stopper" partnership, and I'd encourage anybody who wants to see how that partnership works to catch Denmark's matches.

Fine specific examples like that, are something I'm hoping people will observe and discuss in these threads

What better way for people to understand certain tactical approaches, player roles and settings, than see them in the flesh, so to speak.

Cameroon and Denmark both have very strong spines. I think Eto'o will give Cameroon the advantage, despite Denmark's strong defensive pairing. Agger and Kjaer are the traditional "cover-stopper" partnership, and I'd encourage anybody who wants to see how that partnership works to catch Denmark's matches.

The thing about Cameroon and more specifically Eto'o is that their dangerman is a player whose real strength is his movement. The reason he was so successful at Barca is that he had some truly great midfielders behind him and he knew if he made a good run, a good pass would pick him out. The reason he has at times struggled to replicate his club from for his country is that Cameroon have no natural playmaker like Xavi or Iniesta or Sneijder at Inter. They play two destructive midfielders in the middle of the park and rely heavily on wing play. But who knows? The way Eto'o has adapted his game largely without complaint to slot into Mourinho's Inter side has really impressed me and it is a possible that that experience has added another side to Eto'o's game which could greaty benefit Cameroon.

As regards for the other teams in the group, my bets to go through are the two European teams. Holland look sound defensively, an area which previously in my eyes they were weak and with players like van Persie, Robben and Sneijder, they could go far in this World Cup. And I like Denmark, they play in a similar way to Holland and I think they will be tactically superior to both Cameroon and Japan, two sides which will work tirelessly but lack sufficient quality to progress.

Holland will probably win this group, but it's going to be really interesting to see who will grab second place.

Being a Dane, I don't have any problems saying that Denmark will go through as no. 2 in the group, BUT as the opener in the group is Holland vs Denmark, anything could happen. Everybody is nervous for such a big game, and while Denmark doesn't have many star players, the tactical abilities, along with a very experienced, well-gelled squad (who for the most part actually play, or have played in Holland) could make a surprise here. If Denmark win the opener, everything is possible...

From a tactical point of view, DK Coach, Morten Olsen will probably try and exploit the fact that the dutch offensive is comprised of mainly individual stars, who all usually have a more or less playmaker role in the clubs. As such, they are very liable to always look for killer balls, OR to try and round a couple of defenders. If DK can 'lure' them into defensive traps, especially on DK's left side, there's great possibilities for quick counters. DK's left defending side Agger/Mtiliga, are supreme ball-carrying defenders, with the ability to make something happen going the other way. Christian Poulsens destroyer abilities vs Van Bommel/Sneijders playmaking skills will be the key in this match...

But still, Holland WILL be favourites for this match, and this is perhaps the factor that gives the Danes the biggest chance of getting something out of it...

I agree with rune_star.

I am Dane and I believe that the first match will tell who will win this group.

My bet is on a 1-1 draw and then Denmark will end as no. 1 with Holland as 2nd.

As a Dutchie, I hope The Netherlands will win, but I do see some issues for our Manager, Van Marwijk. Our best line is our attack, but who to choose? Because of our easy group in qualifing nobody noticed that Van Marwijk has some real choices to make.

As a striker Van Persie was out. During qualifying both Huntelaar and Kuyt failed. Judging by our Mexico win, Van Persie seems our first choice.

The for the three place behind the strikers, there are 3 options with big consequenses. Will he go for the big 3: Robben, Van der Vaart and Snijder or will he sacrifice one to play Kuyt, who will make a bit more balance with his defensive work.

One choice relating to this is, were to play Robben? As a classic Left Winger or in his new role as Inside Forward? Going for Robben on the left, it's more likely that Kuyt will play and Sneijder and Van der Vaart will have to battle it out for central playmaker spot.

Robben on the right will more likely mean that Van der Vaart will play on the left, like he has (sometimes) played at Madrid. Van Marwijk seems to like Kuyt, so I don't think it will be an automatic choice for Robben/Snijder/Van der Vaart... This issue could be the "usual Dutch issue" we always seem to have with a big tournament coming around. Hopefully the team will be bigger than the individual ego's. Especially Snijder's

One other issue is who will play next to Mathijssen in Central Defense. Normally Ooijer will play there, but he has been dodgy lately and lost his position at PSV (who refused to renew his contract). Jonny Heitinga seems a likely replacement.

As to the group, it will be tight. The results for The Netherlands will depend on the first match and on keeping our players fit. Van Marwijk has been carefull with Robben, Snijder and Van Persie. Hopefully it will work.

The thing about Cameroon and more specifically Eto'o is that their dangerman is a player whose real strength is his movement. The reason he was so successful at Barca is that he had some truly great midfielders behind him and he knew if he made a good run, a good pass would pick him out. The reason he has at times struggled to replicate his club from for his country is that Cameroon have no natural playmaker like Xavi or Iniesta or Sneijder at Inter. They play two destructive midfielders in the middle of the park and rely heavily on wing play. But who knows? The way Eto'o has adapted his game largely without complaint to slot into Mourinho's Inter side has really impressed me and it is a possible that that experience has added another side to Eto'o's game which could greaty benefit Cameroon.

Emana is a very clever player, though obviously not as good as Sneijder or Xavi, but I feel he should be good enough to feed Eto'o.

If Cameroon play with a diamond midfield or 4-3-1-2, Emana will be at the tip, with licence to roam. He has great movement. His job will be to receive passes from the defensive and wide midfielders and play in Eto'o, or win the second ball himself after Idrissou wins the first. If they play a kind of warped 4-3-3, he'll probably have to cover the right flank from midfield with someone like Webo covering the left. Idrissou isn't mobile enough to take a wide role, nor is he potent enough for Cameroon to rely on him ahead of Eto'o.

Well, from the DK perspective, Mathijssen and Heitinga seems a reasonable pair.

I'm thinking the Danes believe this to be the weakest spot in the Dutch team, and especially Jon Dahl Thomasson might find chances if it'll be Mathijssen/Heitinga which is the pair that've played the fewest amount of matches together? Jon Dahl, although not being as young and accelerant(?) as before, has loads of experience and his key attribute has always been worldclass off the ball movement, so with Bendtner on top doing the shoving and pushing, Jon Dahl quietly sneaks into position ;-) That is if Morten Olsen chooses to play Bendtner up front and Jon Dahl in the no. 10 spot in the hole, instead of choosing a 3 man midfield with Christian Poulsen as DMC and two flat MC's :-S

In any case it'll be interesting... a tie would be a great result as any loosing team will have a hard time passing trough I guess...

I hope that Cameroun will opt for the 4-3-3. The Agger/Kjær combo have proven to handle one striker formations superbly, and even better so because Cameroun as mentioned earlier, don't have any 'genuine' wingers... It'll be a lot harder if Cameroun go for a solid mid instead. They have a real strong physical presence in midfield, and I think they would just overpower the danes.

It's been said that DK is a physical team but i completely disagree. The danes have a hardworking side who can run and run, but they're particularly strong in terms of muscles ;-) Bendtner is a large fella, but he's 'just' tall... He's no Drogba! Poulsen is not a huge man like Yaya Toure, but he' a bit more clever in his play. And that can be said about the majority of the danish side...

For the first time in a world cup, the danish team is almost completely without world star players. There's quite a few old timers, and there's a strong backbone in players like Agger, Kjær, Poulsen and Bendtner. But it's an extremely tactically gifted side, and the qualification was secured from tactical cleverness more than from individual performances. The danish players are very disciplined and all players can think for themselves! The last part might seem obvious, but I think you know what I mean.

So judging from the way DK handled Senegal in the last test before flying of to South Africa, I'm not so worried about the Cameroun game, as I am about the Japan game! It's really not an easy opponent to judge! With all the quarrel with their coach, their ludicrous ambitions (semi finals as a minimum) and up and down performances, they are the unknown factor in this group. I think all other teams are a bit uneasy about that game actually...

Can anyone say something about how the japanese play? Do they have a 'framework' they stick to like Holland and Denmark (4-3-3), or do they shift about from game to game? Do they play possesion one-touch football or a counter-like 'we-run-faster-than-you' football???

I live in Holland..

I hope they will qualify for the next stage..

We have enough quality players..

Form and teamtalks on the matchday will be the deciding factor just like in fm2010

Paul Le Guen the Cameroon manager is said to opt for a 433, this is logical in the midfield given that we are probably the nation with the highest number of defensive midfielders. However from an attacking perspective this is worrying as Cameroon has no real wingers and like someone mentioned above, tend to try to fit strikers into those slots (with mixed results). I'd have opted for a 4312 with Emana just behind a front two (Eto'o and Idrissou), with 3 MCs (Eyong, Song, Makoun), a back four of Assou Ekoto, Bassong, Mbia, Geremi and Kameni in goal.

I'm currently in Cameroon and the whole nation is quite skeptical about our chances and everyone realises our best chances are beating Japan and DK. If we make it past the group stages, "anything can happen".

But general sentiment is LeGuen is gonna mess all up. Fingers crossed.

I hope, for Cameroon's sake, that any 4-3-3 they play looks like this:

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc97/SCIAG/CamTac.jpg

That gives Emana less freedom than ideal, but it retains the pair of defensive midfielders and the strike pairing.

This is one of the most interesting groups for me. All the teams have the capability to qualify for the last 16.

The Nederlands of course look the most likely to top the group - given their attacking talents. Robben, Van Persie and Sneijder could tear even the best of defences apart and don't forget some of their other talent such as Van der Vaart and also Ibrahim Afellay of PSV who impressed against Mexico, giving a nice assist for Van Persie.

Outside of them it really is wide open in terms of the nation's reputations - but I fancy Japan. I watched them against England yesterday and whilst the English were admittedly poor; Japan passed the ball brilliantly. Players like Endo, Honda and Okubo were really impressive. Denmark and Cameroon are also both good side of course, on their day.

Looking forward to this group.

I hope, for Cameroon's sake, that any 4-3-3 they play looks like this:

That gives Emana less freedom than ideal, but it retains the pair of defensive midfielders and the strike pairing.

That's an interesting one, but he'll likely go for a traditional 433 with Song sitting in front of the back four, Eto'o (FR) switching with Webo (FC) and Idrissou on the left. The jury is still out as to R Song's place in the defence, with many believing that Mbia should replace him, given his exceptional form with Marseille this season at that position. Don't forget there's N'Koulou as well (a LeGuen favourite). This will be interesting in any case.

I'm looking forward to seeing Mbia's stats in FM11.

Well, again from the danish perspective, I'd be good with webo on the wing in a classic 4-3-3 formation. Admitted, I don't know him THAT well but I've been told he's a bit like Rommedahl for the danes... meaning he's fast as hell, but that's about it ;-)

Cameroun has one of the strongest central midfields, at least in terms of muscles and condition and a player like Emana can really do well going forward also...

Anybody's got some info on the japanese? It's not like we're scouting for the other teams you know ;-)

Was wondering about the Netherlands. IMHO they seem pretty set to play in a 4-2-3-1 formation. Who will be you guy's pick for the 3 to play behind Van Persie? What about Van Bommel's partner in center midfield? imo it's possible to go Robben - VDV - Kuyt and Sneijder - Van Bommel with Sneijder as a DLP, but does that leave them too frail defensively? The other options are de Zeeuw, Schaars and de Jong while Afellay, Eljerio Elia, Babel are possibles on the wings. Also who will be your first choice back 4? Van Bronckhorst is set at LB, but what about the other 3 positions? They don't seem to have real world class quality at the back, which might hamper their progress if they fail to dominate possession and score goals.

Was wondering about the Netherlands. IMHO they seem pretty set to play in a 4-2-3-1 formation. Who will be you guy's pick for the 3 to play behind Van Persie? What about Van Bommel's partner in center midfield? imo it's possible to go Robben - VDV - Kuyt and Sneijder - Van Bommel with Sneijder as a DLP, but does that leave them too frail defensively? The other options are de Zeeuw, Schaars and de Jong while Afellay, Eljerio Elia, Babel are possibles on the wings. Also who will be your first choice back 4? Van Bronckhorst is set at LB, but what about the other 3 positions? They don't seem to have real world class quality at the back, which might hamper their progress if they fail to dominate possession and score goals.

Van Bommel will be partnered by De Jong (Man City), our Hard Man I think De Zeeuw is first back up, Schaars second (unless he wants a lefty).

I would go for Van der Vaart (AML) - Snijder (AMC) and Robben (AMR), but I think Van Marwijk might go for Kuyt, Robben on the left and Van der Vaart out. Affelay will be first back up/

Defense will be Van Bronckhorst - Mathijssen - Heitinga (or Ooijer) - Van der Wiel.

Also, I think the Dutch defense is underrated. Our last couple of campagnes defense has been solid. We lost to Russia (European Championship) because the whole team failed, not because of defensive errors.

That's an interesting one, but he'll likely go for a traditional 433 with Song sitting in front of the back four, Eto'o (FR) switching with Webo (FC) and Idrissou on the left. The jury is still out as to R Song's place in the defence, with many believing that Mbia should replace him, given his exceptional form with Marseille this season at that position. Don't forget there's N'Koulou as well (a LeGuen favourite). This will be interesting in any case.

I'm looking forward to seeing Mbia's stats in FM11.

I would have put N'Koulou in that side, but he wasn't in the default squad, so I couldn't be bothered to call him up (unlike with Eto'o and Emana, who I needed to illustrate my point). I want to see Rigobert and N'Koulou in there, but it will probably be Mbia and N'Koulou.

Van Bommel will be partnered by De Jong (Man City), our Hard Man I think De Zeeuw is first back up, Schaars second (unless he wants a lefty).

I would go for Van der Vaart (AML) - Snijder (AMC) and Robben (AMR), but I think Van Marwijk might go for Kuyt, Robben on the left and Van der Vaart out. Affelay will be first back up/

Defense will be Van Bronckhorst - Mathijssen - Heitinga (or Ooijer) - Van der Wiel.

Also, I think the Dutch defense is underrated. Our last couple of campagnes defense has been solid. We lost to Russia (European Championship) because the whole team failed, not because of defensive errors.

I suppose what I was trying to say was there is no real household name in the defense compared to the offense. However they are a well settled, deeply experienced defensive unit with de Jong and van Bommel screening in front of the back four and sometimes that works out to be better than having more individual quality, especially in defence. Have always been a big fan of Dutch football, especially after their exciting display at Euro 2008. Should be one of the dark horses of the tournament

4-1 to Holland against Ghana last night...

I'm impressed that the Dutch manages to grab 4 goals in a match where they never really got going, only in bursts... :-S

With that display in mind, and also the performances of the Danes (DK-AUS 0-1) and Cameroun (CAM-POR 1-3), it seems Oranje is definately the group winner in 3 weeks time... Didn't see the Cameroun game, but the Danes were absolutely unimpressive, whereas at least the Dutch offensive looked mighty sharp.

Still, all teams are in final buildup/test phase, so we shouldn't put too much emphasis on theses matches. I know the Denmark tried out a couple of new players in a slightly modified formation (Christian Erikssen playing from start in the no 10 spot as well as other changes).

How about the Dutch? Did they try anything new?

Also, what's your opinion about the new Jabulani ball? I'm hearing more and more reports from players complaining about it. I know they do that before every world cup, but this years edition is supposedly even more 'supermarket-plastic-ball' like... And from yesterday's match, it DOES look a bit funny when floating :-S

4-1 to Holland against Ghana last night...

How about the Dutch? Did they try anything new?

2nd and 3rd Goalies were given playtime (Resulting in the debut of a 39-year old, the oldest international debutant ever in the Dutch squad, probably one of the older guys ever in the whole world.)

Afellay got a start, whilst Van der Vaart is the favourite on his position (And emphasized that by making a storming run as substitute, although Afellay was very good as well.) Kuyt was on so to preserve the Mr. Glass Robben.

Defence had a few shuffles, with this being a likely start (Bronckhorst, Heitinga, Mathijssen and Van der Wiel) Although the full/wing backs are still up for grabs.

I have confidence in this team, I'm sure they have a high chance of winning the group, I think Denmark will finish second, though Cameroon is ofcourse likely to challenge them to it.

Quite interested in the Netherlands and how they will set themselves up. They are most likely to play 4-2-3-1 shape, is that right?

Who will be in the three and what roles will they play in FM terms? Sneijder as AM I presume - advanced playmaker maybe?

Quite interested in the Netherlands and how they will set themselves up. They are most likely to play 4-2-3-1 shape, is that right?

Who will be in the three and what roles will they play in FM terms? Sneijder as AM I presume - advanced playmaker maybe?

4-2-3-1 indeed. Van Marwijk will have a 20 in FM for tactical consistency. His goal has been to create a tactical frame in which each player knows what to do for each position. 4-2-3-1 is all he ever played.

The three is still undecided. Last nighht Affelay did well, but Snijder, Van der Vaart, Robben and Kuyt have an advantage. Considering that Van Marwijk, the manager, doesn't change a lot, I think Affelay will not start. Maybe the problem gets solved because Robben seems to be injured. A sore hip.

Snijder or Van der Vaart will be the AMC. Kuyt or Robben on the right. Van der Vaart or Robben on the left.

Despite the 3-1 scoreline to Portugal last night, I thought Cameroon looked very dangerous on the counter-attack. Neither side played particularly well but the pace and stamina of the Cameroon side and the way they were organised looked like they could a very effective counter-attacking side.

On the other hand their defence looked very vulnerable to basic throughballs from the centre of the pitch.

4-2-3-1 indeed. Van Marwijk will have a 20 in FM for tactical consistency. His goal has been to create a tactical frame in which each player knows what to do for each position. 4-2-3-1 is all he ever played.

The three is still undecided. Last nighht Affelay did well, but Snijder, Van der Vaart, Robben and Kuyt have an advantage. Considering that Van Marwijk, the manager, doesn't change a lot, I think Affelay will not start. Maybe the problem gets solved because Robben seems to be injured. A sore hip.

Snijder or Van der Vaart will be the AMC. Kuyt or Robben on the right. Van der Vaart or Robben on the left.

So what roles then for the three behind the striker Argamas?

Just seen this article on the Netherlands - http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/06/02/holland-world-cup-2010-tactics/

Just seen this article on the Netherlands - http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/06/02/holland-world-cup-2010-tactics/

Good read that. As I read it I kept thinking I was reading an article about Arsenal, the described strengths and weaknesses and even the shape of the Dutch side seeming so like Wengers recent teams.

When you look at the shape of the team and the players it is difficult to avoid drawing comparisons with Mourinho's Inter in Europe this season. Mourinho fielded his side like a genuine weapon and made the last three games of the tournament look simple. However Mourinho's success was premised on resolute and almost rediculous defensive play coupled to brutal counter-attacking play that exploited each of the later opponents in detail. Will the Dutch side do that? Because as the article says, their defence looks a bit suspect and if you are camping in the opponents half and trying to play your way through their packed penalty box you cannot afford to be anything other than completely dominant at the back, or your are going to concede and likely lose.

I think one of the fascinating aspects of the World Cup is the "favourites" tag that is going to affect how teams play against you, yet it is luck of the draw really whether you have a solid defence, a quality attack, a competitive midfield. Teams are very likely to be wary of the Dutch, sit deep and defend against them, encouraging the Dutch forward and then exposing them on the counter.

Sjneider could really be the key man for the Dutch this year. I would be inclined to protect that defence, and allow the front three to play how they wish which means Sjneider as the link-up man would be the most important player on the pitch no matter who the Dutch are playing. He is definately in a hot streak of form at the minute, so protecting the defence and having him link up the defence to that potent looking attack looks to me like a very sensible approach.

So what roles then for the three behind the striker Argamas?

Well, the link is a great analysis. The thing is that Robben has only played as an inside forward with Bayern Munich. The current Dutch systems does not deploy a real inside role. Normally Holland play 2 real wingers and a playmaker/attacking central midfielder. That is also why I think Van Marwijk will not choose for it. Like I said he is very consistent and perhaps conservative.

Like SFraser said, Van Persie plays in his Arsenal role, but maybe a bit more with his back towards the goal then at Arsenal. For all I know. This does mean that there is room for the midfield to go forward, deeper than the striker. Usually this is the AMC, but sometimes Robben from the left. Euro 2008 against France and Italy was a main example.

Kuyt plays as a double role: winger/striker/right back. His job is to assist the midfield and defense too.

Good read that. As I read it I kept thinking I was reading an article about Arsenal, the described strengths and weaknesses and even the shape of the Dutch side seeming so like Wengers recent teams.

When you look at the shape of the team and the players it is difficult to avoid drawing comparisons with Mourinho's Inter in Europe this season. Mourinho fielded his side like a genuine weapon and made the last three games of the tournament look simple. However Mourinho's success was premised on resolute and almost rediculous defensive play coupled to brutal counter-attacking play that exploited each of the later opponents in detail. Will the Dutch side do that? Because as the article says, their defence looks a bit suspect and if you are camping in the opponents half and trying to play your way through their packed penalty box you cannot afford to be anything other than completely dominant at the back, or your are going to concede and likely lose.

I think one of the fascinating aspects of the World Cup is the "favourites" tag that is going to affect how teams play against you, yet it is luck of the draw really whether you have a solid defence, a quality attack, a competitive midfield. Teams are very likely to be wary of the Dutch, sit deep and defend against them, encouraging the Dutch forward and then exposing them on the counter.

Sjneider could really be the key man for the Dutch this year. I would be inclined to protect that defence, and allow the front three to play how they wish which means Sjneider as the link-up man would be the most important player on the pitch no matter who the Dutch are playing. He is definately in a hot streak of form at the minute, so protecting the defence and having him link up the defence to that potent looking attack looks to me like a very sensible approach.

My main man would rather be Mark van Bommel, for the reasons you mentioned. He is the our most important man on midfield, protecting defense and starting attack. He's a winner and like a lot of people many find him annoying because of his mentality on the pitch. A real German we say in Holland . His father in law btw is Manager Van Marwijk

If Snijders isn't fit (which he hasn't always been at Inter, a lot of small injuries), Van der Vaart can play there too. He is a bit of a different player, more one between the lines, then a real playmaker. Snijder is hothead, and there are concerns about his private life. He's going to marry a (semi) celeb from Holland with a lot of press, etc. People worry about that kind of things: is a teamplayer? Can he accept being a sub?

Thanks for that Argamas.

Hmmm... I'd go with a flat bands of 4 4-2-3-1. Van Bommel as an anchor man, de Jong DM support, Robben at AML Winger attack, Sneijder AMC Advance Playmaker attack, Kuyt AMR Defensive Winger support, Van Persie complete forward support.

If Kuyt is omitted then Robben shifts to AMR Inside forward attack. Personally I would then shift Sneijder to AML as Advance Playmaker attack and put VDV at AMC advance playmaker support instead.

Personally I think the big difference between VDV & Snijder is that VDV is brilliant in positioning himself, using space, anticipating, where as Snijder is a better passer, playmaker. Because of that I think Snijder will play in a central role.

After the Ghana game the Dutch Press said that Affelay could be a surprise package. He was always PSV's best player but failed to impress at the national team. There were doubt about his mental toughness, but he has impressed the most in training camp.

People also think that Van Marwijk will leave VDV out of the team opting for Kuyt. However VDV impressed against Ghana with a goal and assist and gaining a penalty. People are also worrying the "Big four" debate could be another disrupter for Holland...

Saturday Holland will play Hungary, that might give some more cluess about the line up.

Unlcuky that Cameroon had to be drawn against two tough euro giants. Denmark are probably similar talent wise, but I can see them choking Cameroon and winning by the odd goal. The match between Holland and Cameroon will be interesting though, Holland are a naturally attacking team, and Cameroon might need something from the match.

It will be intresting to see next saturday what van Marwijk will do. In that match the last pieces before the World cup will be fit together. The only pieces to be decided on will be Robben: plays he left or right and who will complete the attacking 4: Kuyt, Affelay or van der Vaart.

For the Danish team, the strength really lies in a good spine through the centre of the team. With Sørensen in goal, Kjær/Agger in defense and Daniel Jensen and Poulsen in midfield, we have a very good defensive core to the team that won't be easy to break down for anyone. The fullbacks are decent enough as well, the problem is in the attacking positions.

Grønkjær, Martin Jørgensen, Rommedahl and Tomasson have about 380 caps between them, but they seem almost ancient by now. Ten years ago at the start of Morten Olsen's reign we lived off of their pace and trickery, but that's long ago now. The failure to qualify in 2006 and 2008 was simply the Danish team failing to cope with the already diminishing power of those players and the failure of the swashbuckling style that served us so well in the early 2000's.

Now, Rommedahl still has some pace and Tomasson is still one of the best at off the ball movement, but apart from that we only really have our tactical nous and Bendtner, and well... It's a story of night and day, really. When Bendtner is at his best he can change matches, both scoring and creating goals with a powerful style that is hard for any defense to come up against. When at his worst all he seems to do is pass the ball to the opposition, fall over a lot and squander gilt-edged chances, while looking obtuse... Which Bendtner shows up will go a long way in deciding how far Denmark is gonna go in SA.

Spot on!

DK can no longer rely on the decisiveness of said players. Grønkjær, Martin Jørgensen, Rommedahl and Tomasson, still have a role to play however, as all of them (bar Rommedahl) are very intelligent players, that to a certain degree make up for their lack of pace, with clever positioning and passing. It is a problem however, that DK doesn't have more speed up front than is the case.

With Olsen hanging on to the classic 4-3-3 with genuine wingers, you absolutely need some pace and sadly none of the younger players in the squad can help out in this department. Kahlenberg is another tactically clever player, and Christian Eriksen and Enevoldsen are completely new to this level and while skilled (both play in Holland) none of these posses the necessary pace.

the Danish team is in other words more dependant than ever on Morten Olsens tactical whizz, and the players' experience and tactical discipline. Like dane0 said, DK can't rely on Bendtner who has the ability to set the world on fire, or look like a hungover teenager...

But still, I have great confidence in Olsen as a tactical mastermind, and we've proven over the last decade or so, that we have one the most disciplined, tactically clever squads out there, or we wouldn't have qualified against such opposition, with so many injuries... DK was the team that used the highest number of players for their qualifying campaign because of injuries... So I'm looking forward to see what trickery Olsen comes up with for the Holland game. You can bet he has a surprising trick up his sleeve, and if the Dutch offensive is just a little bit off because of nerves (or internal quarrels ;-), then DK has more than just a chance...

I expect Holland to win this group, because I support them, as Estonia hasn't (and, to be honest, has a very small chance to ever) reached to WC.

But I really like Denmark because I happened to see their games in qualification group against Sweden and Portugal and they are real fighters, very determined bunch of players. They have very pacey wingers and can hurt you in counter attacks, especially against dominating team like Holland. And they also have great target man in Bendtner, if he uses at least half of his chances.

As Ajax fan I expect good games from Rommedahl and hope that Christian Eriksen, new 17yo talent will be getting at least some playing time.

Cameroon - another team that has one Ajax player (Eyong Enoh) but otherwise I expect them to battle with Japan for 3rd place. Eto'o hasn't been so superior this season, they lack a bit of depth and experience in this level and qualification from this group would be achievement itself for them.

Japan - I really haven't followed Japanese football after WC 1994 and after that their J-League started to improve quickly so many of their players are home-based. Keisuke Honda is the only familiar name and perhaps Nakamura too. But they shall not be underestimated and I think that good team effort is what they should look for to get some points in this group.

Netherlands once again excellent... Their attack just rip opponents to shreads..

They still worry me defensively though, against some of the top strikers and attacking teams they will struggle.

Robben could be out btw. Injured his hamstring.

Robben will probably miss the WC or at least the group stages, lets hope it isn't as bad as it looks though.

To be honest though, I rather have one of the attackers out with an injurie (even though it's robben who, with the possible exception of van persie is the best we have) than a defender. I haven't been impressed with the defense so far in the three practice matches. The subs for the defense are miles behind the first choice players, so one injurie there and you can say goodbey your (small) chance of winning the cup.

As it is now I think when the Dutch reach the Knockout stages it will be a matter of outscoring the opposition.

I'll try to make a tactic in FM for the dutch team, since this is in the tactics forum

A question to the Danish or those that have seen matches of them, how is Eriksen doing. As an Ajax fan I'm rather interested in his development.

Eriksen is doing fine. Think most danes would like to see more of him. He would look good behind Bendtner if Jon Dahl doesnt start performing.

So far the whole team has performed horribly in the friendlies producing literally 1-2 semi chances per game! Very poor passing, control (due to the new adidas ball apparantly) and offensive creativity.

I think there is a very good chance of seeing Eriksen in the coming matches as he is definately one of the more technically gifted players who is able to control the light ball, unlike Jon Dahl, Rommedahl, Søren Larsen who seem to be suffering with it. Also several midfielders like Daniel Jensen and Kahlenberg look very poor due to their lacking match practice.

The Danes are entering the world cup with NO confidence what so ever, after the last two training matches against Australia and the host, South Africa both ending with 0-1 defeats...

The result of those matches would be irrelevant if the team had played ok, but this is definately not the case... Right now people in Denmark are fairly confident that the team will NOT have a chance of passing through the group stage.

Eriksen has only played very little (to the dismay of the entire press corps), and it's difficult to see whether he can cut it at this level or if it's too soon for him. There's no question however that he's one for the future...

The Danes are now hoping that their almost two week stay in the thin air in the heights of their camp in South Africa will give them an advantage over the Dutch, who've only recently arrived to SA...

I wouldn't put too much stock in Denmark's latest two matches against Australia and South Africa. Though I'd rather watch paint dry than watch those two games ever again, we should never really have expected much from them to begin with.

It's clear the players were scared of getting injured and they hardly made any forward runs when in possession. Add to that the new ball that everyone hates, playing at high altitudes, and being annoyed by those vuvuzelas all throughout the game, and you've got a recipe for some poor performances.

The Holland game will be a whole different kettle of fish. It looks like Sørensen, Bendtner, and Kjær will be fit to play, and with those players ready, we actually have five players in our squad of the highest caliber when you include Agger and C. Poulsen. Not many teams can say that. We also have the underrated Jacobsen on the right back who is very good defensively, a hard working Jacob Poulsen in midfield who can both attack and defend, and intelligent, technically gifted Kahlenberg creating chances for us.

I very much expect Olsen to approach the Holland game the same way he did the away game against Portugal, which is to say very defensively. Even if he prefers attacking, he's shrewd enough to set up a strong defense when he has to.

In the first half of the Portugal game, Denmark showed some of the best defending I had seen in a long time, and I think they'll play like that against Holland too. I predict a good result for Denmark who will probably look like this:

Sørensen

Jacobsen Kjær Agger Mtiliga

Rommedahl C. Poulsen J. Poulsen Kahlenberg

Tomasson Bendtner

Kahlenberg and Rommedahl will be preferred instead of Grønkjær and Enevoldsen because of their better defensive work. Same reason applies to Tomasson, no matter who would replace him.

Unlike most Danes, I'm actually quite optimistic about the Danish chances at the WC. We have a good squad and one of the best and most experienced coaches in the game, and Robben's likely absence only increases our chances. And let's not forget: we were crap leading up to WC98 too and look what happened then:-)

A nice tactical write-up on the Dutch here (and it's not from ZonalMarking.net!):

http://timhi.wordpress.com/2010/06/09/dutch-world-cup2010/

Good article, it's how I see the dutch team myself.

I'll try to translate that into Fm talk. Note that I'm not a tactical genius, so I may get this all wrong and I'd like to hear peoples opinions

First, team instructions:

Philosophy: very Fluid

Starting strategy: Control

passing style: short

Creative Freedom: more expresive

Closing down: press more

Tackling: default

Marking: zonal

Crossing: default

Roaming: more roaming

Player roles

GK: sweeper keeper, defend (he will help out where he can, but won't get to adventurous

DL: Full Back, suport (will stay in defense mostly, goes forward when he sees oportunities, van Bronkhorst got 2 assist that way against Hungary)

DR: wingback,attack

CD: defenders, defend

MCl: Bal winning midfielder, defend

MCr: bal winning midfielder, suport

AMC: Attacking midfielder, suport

AML Advanced playmaker. suport

AMR: inside forward, suport

ST: COmplete forward, suport

No playmaker selected, no target man selected.

AMC/L/R,ST should all have move into chanels + roaming

Each role will probably need to be tweaked here and there but this is the basic version as I see it. I'll try and test it in the next few days.