WOW - FM16 is tough

Hi All

New convert to 16 from 14 and I've been doing a test save and wow it's such a tough game so far!

I'm finding managing my squad hard too, people get annoyed so easily.

For a mid-low team in Spain is there a shape/ tactic you might recommend, I went with 442 but struggling big time!

4-2-3-1 worked wonders for me in Spain, and liked to control possession and my fullbacks were crucial to my success.

But definitely players get annoyed easy, i remember when i did my first FM16 career, i went to Madrid as a test. Then Jese believes he should be starting ahead of Ronaldo as he believes he is a better player. Dream on lad.

Welcome to FM16.

If you are looking for somewhere to start, take a look at the stickies about creating tactics - there are some great guides in there.

Managing personality & game time expectations is much tougher than you'll be used to as the entire system underwent a major rewrite for FM15, it's important to think about the player's side of any discussion rather than just selecting the optimal response & having the problem go away.

A sound & well thought out transfer strategy is also much more important than it was before FM15 as stacking your squad with the very best players you can afford is no longer the way to go, too many players of equal ability will all want to be starting & that's a near impossible situation to manage.

Thanks guys for the replies, truth is I have spent an entire week reading superb threads and Rashidi etc but I am simply crap at it, tactics is not my strong point at all.

What I would really like for my own enjoyment is a simple plug & play tactic and then focus on transfers / management.

I don't mean an exploitative one but just something decent because as hard as I try, I find it hard & quite boring to be honest to spot things in-play and then make changes.

My question is, which tactic might you recommend?

Also, I know Rashidi does his DNA, how many attributes should you target do you think and do you have universal ones or role ones? It's just I tried that but before I knew it I had a long list and found it hard to break it down.

I just want to play as simply as possible and enjoy the game, I know that might annoy the excellent people who contribute massively but I don't have time for all that hard work, I just want to go away & play and write up my save on a career thread.

What do you guys think? Would appreciate any help because what I don't want to do really is to load up FM14 just because I had success, I want to enjoy FM16

I believe there are some sound plug & play tactics in the download section however the development arc of the ME means that the successful ones are more likely to be exploiting a specific flaw in the ME although that's not always the case, even then you need to pay attention to player attributes & good transfer decisions to ensure you make the most out of any tactic.

Have a look in the download section, I assume it's probably best to start with the more active threads to pick a few tactics & see if there are any that play out in a way that you find enjoyable.

This isn't really the place to be asking for a tactic so if you are looking for one, you should take a look at the Tactics Sharing forum - plenty of stuff in there.

The better threads for downloading a tactic will also discuss the type of players recommended by the author.

However, there is no such thing as "plug and play" any more, there are no tactics you can download which will guarantee success as they may have done in the past. That's not to say you won't find one that will work for you, just managing your expectations .

Start there.

4-2-3-1, it has the best of all worlds. Can be good defensively, can be a very attacking formation, can control possession with it. It is very flexible.

I prefer 4-3-2-1 as a good base system, just need excellent wing backs & hard working MC's to cover the gaps when the wide men bomb forward, I doubt there's much to choose between the two.

Thanks guys, it's just something I always find hard due to the many variablles.

Rashdi's videos are awesome but I don't have his knowledge, wish I did because he seems to spot things so easily and look now at Kingstonian, how has he just lost 2 games!

To be able to play like that must make the game so rewarding.

This isn't really the place to be asking for a tactic so if you are looking for one, you should take a look at the Tactics Sharing forum - plenty of stuff in there.

The better threads for downloading a tactic will also discuss the type of players recommended by the author.

However, there is no such thing as "plug and play" any more, there are no tactics you can download which will guarantee success as they may have done in the past. That's not to say you won't find one that will work for you, just managing your expectations .

Start there.

Thanks and apologies, I just wanted to ask.

I am going to start a test save in FMT to test tactics.

Would you say it's best to focus on role attributes to ensure it enhances the tactic for now?

I can then limit my universal DNA attributes to no more than 3 or 4.

They would be first touch, composure, determination, work rate

FMT is a great place to test tactics, as you always have 100% tactical familiarity.

In terms of your DNA attributes, there are no right or wrong answers here - it entirely depends on how you want to go about setting up your club. Rashidi is good at covering that aspect, and I suspect you've taken his lead there already, in which case you have a great starting point.

Just take your time, think about your role selection and exactly which attributes (other than your DNA) would enhance and compliment those roles. And don't overlook PPMs and the default PIs for each role.

I never use PPM's, I really don't understand them, are there certain ones for certain roles or does it not work like that? What do you mean don't overlook PI's?

See I have way too many questions all the time, on FM14 I tended to pick a tactic and play and then really enjoy it as I focused on player development & finances.

I want to do the same on 16 too

It's simply a question of taking your time and reading what things do to help you pull together a tactical system - don't just throw a bunch of tactical settings together and hope they work.

For example on PIs - when you choose a player role, go into the Player Instructions and see what settings have been made by default - it'll help you understand how your players will actually behave on the pitch.

Anyway, you've made a good start already by reading some guides, following Rashidi and using FMT to test things. Carry on from there - or, as you say, take something from the download section.

I would say its more balanced, which might make it tougher if you relied on unbalanced things in previous versions. I think in FM14 possession tactics were really strong, it was just a matter of time till you scored and counter attacking was weak so was low risk style.

I would not recommend 4231 as a good balanced formation, too many people get it wrong and unbalanced. Just look at all the topics we get on here about it.

A formation on its own is not "easy", its just your defensive positioning so needs to fit your defensive plan.

If you want a shielding type of defence then 4141, 433 DM Wide and 4231 Deep Wide are good formations to get started with.

If you want more pressing type of defence then 451, 4411, 4321 Wide are good formations to get started with.

Remember to try to make a cohesive game plan where your attacking style fits your defensive. If your wanting to counter attack and draw opponents out to attack in behind them, is a high pressing defensive strategy going to help or hinder that?

This is me going on holiday from day one not doing anything letting the assistant do everything including choice in tactics etc. Side predicted to fight against relegation.

The problem I have with the downlaods is that I haven't seen one that isn't as aggressive every minute of the season every opponent as any AI man / team in the game's world else is only when going desperately overload in its role setup, ie. when it desperately pushes for another goal. Wing backs on both flanks covered for by a single anchor man at best, and there's an alarming number of no holding players at all, that is every single player is on attack or support duty. All it does take is an AI man dropping off and prefering to play with multiple central forwards who don't track back much and wait for the clearance, and there's soft goals against it in there right there (even if it's the dead last -- space gifted is space gifted). Additionally the lack of midfielders staying deep means there's no outlet for ball retention (back passes can only be played if there's players back) resulting in forced additionally (weak) finishes, and every missed shot in FM can result in players getting frustrated which can produce knock-ons on conversion rates (none of the benefitial kind).

SI should improve the assistants alongside the AI though, plus have more elaborate match plans in there for style perhaps so that they're actually more oftenly tried by those who don't like to micromanage. I'd like that "punishment" spoken above to happen not by "random chance", which is parts of what is causing the randomly frustration by downloads, but by AI intelligence able to spot if there's just a lack or no holding players at all like, in all fairness, no team in football has and certainly not by default. Therefore I'd advice anyone currently personally to at least try the assistants as they're in the game and focus on getting better by bettering squads, doing solid man management and/or at least get to grip with the bare basics.

Thanks everyone, I think I am going to give it a go myself, I have chosen Aston Villa as my test subject and decided I want to play on the counter with this shape (no instructions yet)

As a starting point what do you think?

I'm not sure what shouts/ppm's/pi's could help me though, what do you think?

This is me going on holiday letting the assistant do everything. Side predicted to fight against relegation.

The problem I have with the downlaods is that I haven't seen one that isn't as aggressive every minute of the season every opponent as any AI man / team in the game's world else is only when going desperately overload in its role setup, ie. when it desperately pushes for another goal. Wing backs on both flanks covered for by a single anchor man at best, and there's an alarming number of no holding players at all. All it does take is an AI man dropping off and prefering to play with multiple central forwards who don't track back much and wait for the clearance, and there's soft goals against it in there right there (even if it's the dead last -- space gifted is space gifted).

SI should improve the assistants alongside the AI though, plus have more elaborate match plans in there for style perhaps so that they're actually more oftenly tried by those who don't like to micromanage. I'd like that "punishment" spoken above to happen not by "random chance", which is parts of what is causing the randomly frustration by downloads, but by AI intelligence able to spot if there's just a lack or no holding players at all like, in all fairness, no team in football has and certainly not by default. Therefore I'd advice anyone currently personally to at least try the assistants as they're in the game and focus on getting better by bettering squads and/or at least get to grip with the bare basics.

What tactic did you use for this holiday period? Sorry, not sure what point you are making. I'm not sure what you mean about assistants?

Yeah sorry it was Cleons thread which gave me the idea, sorry I should have referenced him, I want to use it as a starting block.

For shouts I am thinking:

Play Out of Defense / Work Ball Into Box

The latter more so because I want to be sure our chances count

@Analog - what do you mean by standard play?

I've played 2 games so far, 2 losses but we did well, all goals against were:

1 pen

1 corner

2 crosses

I decided to show onto weaker foot their wingers and it seemed to work

What other changes would you suggest?

I am very happy though with how we keep the ball, I know it doesn't mean much if we lost but that's a good starting block.

It's cool mate, I appreciate it, what might be considered standard? I like the idea of a counter system so wanted to give this a go, we just got a good point against Man Utd!

What combinations of shouts would people consider with this system in the following scenarios:

1) Looking for a goal

2) Shut up shop

I am going to try and squad build based on the attributes Cleon talked about so it would be:

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[TD=class: xl63]Dribbling[/TD]

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[TD=class: xl63]First Touch[/TD]

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[TD=class: xl63]Technique[/TD]

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[TD=class: xl63][/TD]

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[TD=class: xl63]Aggression[/TD]

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[TD=class: xl63]Bravery[/TD]

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[TD=class: xl63]Off The Ball[/TD]

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[TD=class: xl63]Work Rate[/TD]

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[TD=class: xl63]Teamwork[/TD]

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[TD=class: xl63][/TD]

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[TD=class: xl63]Pace[/TD]

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[TD=class: xl63]Acceleration[/TD]

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[TD=class: xl63]Stamina[/TD]

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[TD=class: xl63]Strength[/TD]

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Another thing guys, how would you judge a tactic?

-Results only?

-Amount of clear cuts?

All cleon was doing in that guide was showing how to create counter attacks by drawing opponent to committing players forward but what about when a counter attack isn't on, whats your plan?

Do you want to still get the ball forward quickly and try to create something before they get organized? This will result in less of the ball so you will need to be confident of your defensive strengths to defend for longer periods. Might want an attacking duty or two to encourage more forward play.

Do you want to try and keep the ball and try to draw opponents out and play around there press? This would give your defence a rest but you'll need to add attributes like Passing / Composure / Decision to your requirements. Maybe a playmaker role such as DLP-D instead of A-D to create from deep.

There isn't a set "must score" or "shut up shop" instructions, it depends what your team can do. Some will shut up shop by keeping the ball more, others will just hoof it long and keep 11 men behind the ball. Some will switch to "must score" by playing quicker or more direct, others will allow more roaming / creativity, etc etc

Judge your tactic on what you see and what you expect.

It is not only Cleon or Rashidi who have good knowledge of the game. I would recommend you try Der FM's You Tube Channel he has some great content and ideas.

Woah, slow down there Flash, you're pinging around like a pinball.

You only wrote this a couple of hours ago and now you want some sort of hybrid between copying Cleon's counter attacking thread and fast transitions with lots of DNA thrown in for good measure.

What I would really like for my own enjoyment is a simple plug & play tactic and then focus on transfers / management.

This is why it's really really important to think things through before jumping in at the deep end. As I said above, there is no such thing any more as a plug and play tactic. However, there are some popular tactics for download which you can always try out if you really want to focus on management - the better authors of downloadable tactics will even provide recommended attributes for players.

You also mention counter attacking. Wanting to play counter attacking football is fine, but you need to remember it is a very specific type of football and (in FM terms) a very specific tactical setup. If that is what you want to do, then go for it - but don't just copy Cleon's setup as 1) it probably won't work for you and 2) you won't understand it. Take the time to read through that thread and really try to see the principles involved that Cleon is trying to get across.

While you are still new to the game and wanting to get stuck into the action, you may find that downloading something (for now at least) may be the way to go while you get used to the other management aspects. Then perhaps move into the tactical side of things once you have got to grips with that?

There's a lot of new stuff, so have a think about what you want to do .

This isn't a criticism as I appreciate people's input but when people say just watch etc but that's my weakness, I find that hard because I don't have a checklist but the game seems overly difficult. I'm not a tactical expert, I just want to enjoy the game but focus on squad management / transfers rather than tactics.

With so many variables it's so hard.

Not sure what to do, I don't want to download tactics but I may well have to

PS -DNA is not something new to me, I did it on FM14 and it's really enjoyable to build a squad based on a universal attribute group.

My own skill in been able to do that is the stumbling block, I am not good at tactics at all.

Which key attributes would you look for?

This is what I struggle with

My own skill in been able to do that is the stumbling block, I am not good at tactics at all.

Which key attributes would you look for?

This is what I struggle with

Getting a little confused/concerned here. You've been pulling together an attributes / DNA spreadsheet:

I don't see this discussed that much so I just wanted to introduce on how I manage things, so first up what I do for all my squads is create two tiers of filters of attributes, you can call this my club DNA if you like

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/459422-Squad-Management-Ideas-Spreadsheet.

Further, from Rashidi's Bust the Net thread:

God this thread is superb, read it all from start to end whilst making notes, made some transfers to suit key attributes and already seen huge improvements!

I'm getting some mixed messages here. On the one hand you say you're not good at tactics and unsure about attributes/DNA, yet on the other hand you're making huge improvements and have created a spreadsheet to track key attributes and DNA.

Yes it was on FM14, anyone can pull together some attributes they want players to have - that's easy

Creating a tactic and then looking for things to change isn't - no need to get confused, it's simple

I might load up FM14 tbh

Yes it was on FM14, anyone can pull together some attributes they want players to have - that's easy

Creating a tactic and then looking for things to change isn't - no need to get confused, it's simple

FM16 is easy, frustrating, but easy.

Ask yourself how do I want my team to play? for me it's all about possession, the other team can't score if I have the ball. So my tactic created with that in mind, Control with lower tempo works nicely, I will also choose close down more, not much more as I tend to find players out of position. I then set filters which for each position, something like you have done with your spreadsheet, and but when funds become available. I'm very stubborn if the players I have don't meet the attributes required then they are sold, simple as that.

Thanks for your reply mate, do you think it is? I am probably putting too much pressure on myself, only bought the game a few days ago.

Any chance you could share your tactic?

So by position do you simply use the highlighted attributes as given in the game to pick your players and do it that way?

Thanks for your reply mate, do you think it is? I am probably putting too much pressure on myself, only bought the game a few days ago.

Any chance you could share your tactic?

So by position do you simply use the highlighted attributes as given in the game to pick your players and do it that way?

Why don't you start by playing with an 'easy' team such as Barcelona/Bayern/Real Madrid to familiarise yourself with concept of tactics. e.g mentalities and team instructions.

My tactic? it's a 4-1-2-3 wide with lower tempo, play out of defence and close down more selected.

Attribute wise I search using the ingame attributes highlighted for each role but with work rate select if not all ready. I like my players to work hard.

Yes it was on FM14, anyone can pull together some attributes they want players to have - that's easy

Creating a tactic and then looking for things to change isn't - no need to get confused, it's simple

ok, then the best piece of advice I can give is if you were fine with it on FM14, just apply the same principles to FM16. The UI has changed, the ME has evolved, but the same core principles and methods remain.

ok, then the best piece of advice I can give is if you were fine with it on FM14, just apply the same principles to FM16. The UI has changed, the ME has evolved, but the same core principles and methods remain.

This this and more this.

I have actually had the same fall back tactic from FM14 beta. It worked awesome on 14. Awesome on 15 and is awesome on 16. I use it as plug n play but it bores me to death. Now in between the community challenge I'm trying to get a rafa benitez approach going.

So if your FM14 ideas don't work try researching a team or coach whose style of play you like and try to develop it in game a long term approach it's much rewarding and enjoyable in my experience anyways.

Ps if you can't get it to work you can lay the foundation in a thread and the community here will help you to work on it.

Thank you everyone, I do appreciate it, I suppose I'm looking for shortcuts as I don't want to spend hours on it, I just want to enjoy the game and focus on managing squad/ training, tactics are my least favourite part because I am not good at it.

@Callamity - could you put up your tactic for download if possible?

Yeah it's a good idea to start with a big team but I have two saves Malaga / Villa just to see what might work with them.

I'm not sure if starting as Barca and winning everything would really help.

I'm currently setting up a 4-4-2 with Sparta. I'm planning on using a striker pair of AF/P and DLF/F9. I've chosen this player as an option for the AF/P role, rather than the DLF/F9 role. There's one attribute here that should stand out as to why this player would make a 'bad' DLF/F9. What do you think would happen if I play him in a link up/creative role? (really there are a few attributes that make this player not ideal for link up). This player would actually probably be quite a frustration if I play him that way.

This is what I mean. Whether you are using some plug and play tactic or making up your own system, FM (to steal from Rashidi) is a game of numbers (attributes), and what you see on the pitch and how successful your tactics are all depends on what numbers you plug into the formula of your tactic/system. Using the wrong player in the role can give you the false impression that it's the tactic, when really it's the choice of players you put into that tactic that is the issue.

Appreciate the insight and I like your custom view

His low teamwork as he wouldn't involve others as much

I'm not sure if starting as Barca and winning everything would really help.

I've seen people post of here who have failed with Barca, so just because they are a strong team don't expect to walk the league.

ok, then the best piece of advice I can give is if you were fine with it on FM14, just apply the same principles to FM16. The UI has changed, the ME has evolved, but the same core principles and methods remain.

I might do that actually, could be a good challenge in itself to see if what worked on 14 would on 16

Appreciate your help today and your time in giving me feedback and ideas

I've seen people post of here who have failed with Barca, so just because they are a strong team don't expect to walk the league.

Challenge accepted then, I'll start with Barca then on FMT mode and see what works

I think with so many variables I tend to procrastinate too much and get bogged down too much.

I might just download a few tactics, play with Barca and see how it goes, not ideal as it feels like I've given in but I want to just get on playing a proper save in full fat mode.

I will still have a team ethos though, I like to have a club DNA

Do you watch your matches in Full or Comprehensive highlights?

No I don't, I know people will say you should but I don't have time for all that, I want to plug in a tactic and just play (prefer on commentary), all I want to do is focus on training/development/transfers/ finances.

I'm no tactical expert at all and to be honest I am busy enough however FM Touch is way too arcade for me, I prefer the full fat version but I don't have the patience or knowledge to watch on full and start messing with things as I don't know what I am doing.

So far there are two tactics which play well in FMT - one is from Mr Rosler & one from FM Base called Unleashed v1

FMT and full fat both use exactly the same match engine, so if you've found a couple of tactics that work on FMT there is no technical reason why they wouldn't also work on full fat.

Obviously full fat gives you much more opportunity to mess things up yourself (team talks etc) so watch out for that .

Thanks Herne, yeah I know, I have used the same team talk method for all versions:

Pre-Match - nothing

Half time winning - keep it up

Half time losing - assertive - where is your passion

Full time lost - aggressive

Full time won - well done

Thing is I am now reading some excellent articles and trying to decide on what to do.

I love the idea of Ozil in his Arrigo Sacchi thread and the idea of a very fluid system (total football). This will then mean when squad building you have to be sure to have certain attributes running through your entire team - quite like that sort of thing.

Honestly, you have time for training/development/scouting/transfers/finances, but you don't have 10 - 15 mins to watch a game in Comprehensive to spot where your tactical errors are?

As you can see by most of the previous posts on this thread, FM16 is not plug n play.

There might be many reasons why your team is losing, but it comes down to the following imo. I might be wrong, but this is what I think:

1. Your team must get used to your tactic.

2. Your team probably doesn't have the right attributes.

3. Your tactic doesn't work for the team you have.

4. Your team is expected to finish last.

If you play in the La Liga/Bundesliga/Premier League with a team likely to be in the bottom half of the table and you implement the wrong or bad "tactic", then your team will likely be relegated. However, if the system you are bringing in and is well thought of and planned out, it shouldn't be hard to do better than the media prediction.

The point I'm trying to make is that Football Manager is a coffee. Championship manager and older versions of FM may have been instant coffee with instant results.

Instead, FM16 is now a carefully roasted coffee. Slowly brewed.

You start with nothing, slowly implementing the style you want your team to play. Season after season you weed out the players that doesn't fit your mould. In order to perform better than expectations and not get sacked, your system must be well implemented and you must have the right players with the right attributes to do so.

Only after creating the perfect cup of espresso... beautiful football in your own terms. So beautiful that you actually enjoy watching your team play... THEN you create the magic like Ozil, Cleon, RTH and Rashidi.

You don't create a winning machine in your first season. You build it over time.

LEEMOD

You can use an Instant Result Skin, so just plug in a tactic get a result and you can focus on what you enjoy.

Honestly, you have time for training/development/scouting/transfers/finances, but you don't have 10 - 15 mins to watch a game in Comprehensive to spot where your tactical errors are?

As you can see by most of the previous posts on this thread, FM16 is not plug n play.

There might be many reasons why your team is losing, but it comes down to the following imo. I might be wrong, but this is what I think:

1. Your team must get used to your tactic.

2. Your team probably doesn't have the right attributes.

3. Your tactic doesn't work for the team you have.

4. Your team is expected to finish last.

If you play in the La Liga/Bundesliga/Premier League with a team likely to be in the bottom half of the table and you implement the wrong or bad "tactic", then your team will likely be relegated. However, if the system you are bringing in and is well thought of and planned out, it shouldn't be hard to do better than the media prediction.

The point I'm trying to make is that Football Manager is a coffee. Championship manager and older versions of FM may have been instant coffee with instant results.

Instead, FM16 is now a carefully roasted coffee. Slowly brewed.

You start with nothing, slowly implementing the style you want your team to play. Season after season you weed out the players that doesn't fit your mould. In order to perform better than expectations and not get sacked, your system must be well implemented and you must have the right players with the right attributes to do so.

Only after creating the perfect cup of espresso... beautiful football in your own terms. So beautiful that you actually enjoy watching your team play... THEN you create the magic like Ozil, Cleon, RTH and Rashidi.

You don't create a winning machine in your first season. You build it over time.

Hi Andre,

Yes of course I have time for those things because it's something I enjoy and have knowledge about, there is no point me sitting there watching a game in full because I don't know what I am looking for so it would be a waste of time, I am however over the next few days going to watch all of Rashid's vidoes again and make some notes to see if I can implement some ideas as he plays the game basically but so well so I hope this helps.

I never claimed it was plug & play and that's a good thing I suppose but for someone like me who simply doesn't know what to look for or how to do it, I would like to focus on the players, in my opinion having player with strong mental/physical attributes can make you do well even with lesser teams however at this juncture I'm not yet sure what shape to use. I like 4312 but also the 442 Ozil talks about in his Sacchi thread.

I certainly don't expect to be winning things in my first year, I like you prefer to build a club, I remember my first major save in FM14 with Stockport, I was sacked after season one then went to Harrogate who I took to the Premiership, it took me about 16 years I think to get there but it was so enjoyable because it was something I had built. My intention is to start lower league but before I do I need to have a clear vision / attributes needed. It's this I can't decide on.

Appreciate your reply

LEEMOD

You can use an Instant Result Skin, so just plug in a tactic get a result and you can focus on what you enjoy.

Cheers Knap, I prefer to use commentary, I prefer it as you can use your imagination, I never liked the dots and the 3D to me seems so old fashioned, I don't play fifa at all not since 1998 but watched a video on it recently, if FM had that sort of play it would be cool however I like to plan/develop pre-season and rush through games on commentary where I'd usually then do a career update thread but at this moment I can't decide on a system never mind a team! I am playing FMT just to test out tactics but I want to try create my own, it's just so hard.

PS - I tried one of your tactics, it was really good.