Trying to re-create Simeone's Atletico.

Firstly let me provide you with a back story, I am no tactical genius but I know enough. In fact the tactical side of the game is probably the thing that I love most about football.

I've struggled to implement my half hearted ideas onto FM since, hmm about FM13.

So a few nights ago I decided to buckle down and do some reading about tactics. I umm'd and ahh'd about what I prefer. Do I want to play possession based and press high up? Or do I want to sit back, keep a solid shape and frustrate my opponents?

I decided I loved how Atletico played, and the fact they managed to win the title in a league with Barca and Real...I just found that to be such a breath of fresh air. The fact they didn't need to buy their way to the Championship, instead relying on the genius of Diego Simeone (who was in fact one of my favourite players as a kid). Most of you know about him and his Atletico sides so theres no need to go into that too deep.

I decided to try and re-create Simeone's Atletico in FM15, the key word their is try. So don't flame me if I've got it completely wrong!

I did some research on websites that Cleon has linked at the top of the page. Reading about some of the Atletico games and how they set up and approach the tactical side of things.

The team I decided to use was Monaco, I thought getting away from England would be a challenge as well as broaden my knowledge of other leagues. I chose Monaco because of their excellent youth set up, the fact that PSG are dominant in the French League so it'd be a challenge to dethrone them.

From what I gathered, Atletico play a 442. However they sit quite narrow, and rely on a solid structure to defend, rather than pressing high up the pitch. Although at times in certain games they have pushed high up the pitch. They love to tackle, and tackle with intent.

They attack at a high tempo, getting the ball to their 'wide' players and strikers as fast as they can.

That's a brief run down of what I think the tactic is.

This is what I've come up with so far:

PI's: I have both full backs with 'get further forward'. This is to provide a bit of width, without taking too much away from the defensive shape (hopefully).

I have the left sided CM (A) with dribble more. This is because I'm training Ocampos to play there, and using his dribbling abilities on the break could be effective, as well as adding a bit of variety to the attacks.

I have the F9 with close down more.

So that's what I have so far, it started off as a flat 4-4-2 with wide midfielders, then defensive wingers. But I couldn't get it to how I wanted it. So this is what I've come up with so far, it's still very much a work in progress. In the one game I played away at PSG I drew 1-1, should have won it. I was happy with how much it limited PSG in attack, and offered a bit going forward.

I'm very much open to suggestions and would love to discuss more!

Are you looking to re-create their philosophy rather than their tactics? I guess so based on the formation you've posted anyway.

Anyway, if you're looking to re-create their philosophy and style, I would suggest having a few different formations with subtle differences and buying players that can play in a lot of positions. Players like Koke will play as a winger in one game, a playmaker in another, a hardworking BBM in another etc. which puts into perspective how drilled all of Athletico's players are when it comes to their defensive tactics. I always got the feeling that the players are free to do whatever they want going forward, but they are very, very disciplined defensively.

I realise I haven't really given any suggestions other than make more formations and buy versatile players so apologies for that!

Firstly let me provide you with a back story, I am no tactical genius but I know enough. In fact the tactical side of the game is probably the thing that I love most about football.

I've struggled to implement my half hearted ideas onto FM since, hmm about FM13.

So a few nights ago I decided to buckle down and do some reading about tactics. I umm'd and ahh'd about what I prefer. Do I want to play possession based and press high up? Or do I want to sit back, keep a solid shape and frustrate my opponents?

I decided I loved how Atletico played, and the fact they managed to win the title in a league with Barca and Real...I just found that to be such a breath of fresh air. The fact they didn't need to buy their way to the Championship, instead relying on the genius of Diego Simeone (who was in fact one of my favourite players as a kid). Most of you know about him and his Atletico sides so theres no need to go into that too deep.

I decided to try and re-create Simeone's Atletico in FM15, the key word their is try. So don't flame me if I've got it completely wrong!

I did some research on websites that Cleon has linked at the top of the page. Reading about some of the Atletico games and how they set up and approach the tactical side of things.

The team I decided to use was Monaco, I thought getting away from England would be a challenge as well as broaden my knowledge of other leagues. I chose Monaco because of their excellent youth set up, the fact that PSG are dominant in the French League so it'd be a challenge to dethrone them.

From what I gathered, Atletico play a 442. However they sit quite narrow, and rely on a solid structure to defend, rather than pressing high up the pitch. Although at times in certain games they have pushed high up the pitch. They love to tackle, and tackle with intent.

They attack at a high tempo, getting the ball to their 'wide' players and strikers as fast as they can.

That's a brief run down of what I think the tactic is.

This is what I've come up with so far:

PI's: I have both full backs with 'get further forward'. This is to provide a bit of width, without taking too much away from the defensive shape (hopefully).

I have the left sided CM (A) with dribble more. This is because I'm training Ocampos to play there, and using his dribbling abilities on the break could be effective, as well as adding a bit of variety to the attacks.

I have the F9 with close down more.

So that's what I have so far, it started off as a flat 4-4-2 with wide midfielders, then defensive wingers. But I couldn't get it to how I wanted it. So this is what I've come up with so far, it's still very much a work in progress. In the one game I played away at PSG I drew 1-1, should have won it. I was happy with how much it limited PSG in attack, and offered a bit going forward.

I'm very much open to suggestions and would love to discuss more!

Did you try using wide playmakers?

I tried to replicate Atletico last year but couldn't because I couldnt get a player to behave like Koke out wide, now with the Wide Playmaker role that should be easier. Arda turan does play as a winger at times but I feel he would still be a wide playmaker, with dribble more perhaps and an attacking duty. As for the midfield, I would try maybe using 2DMs rather and CMs for that extra defensive stability.

This thread is getting on a bit, but could be handy:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/377131-An-Exploration-Into-Diego-Simeone-s-Counter-Attacking-442?highlight=Simeone

Thanks for the replies all.

It kinda makes sense to make a number of tactics with subtle differences, because it seems that even during the game they can just ramp up the pressing for a period of time, before dropping back into a solid shape, pressing in certain areas.

I haven't tried wide playmakers actually, that might be an idea. I just read and saw that they like to play narrow, so I put 3 guys in the CM spot which would obviously make me more narrow, and I can instruct them to move out a little wider?

Thanks for that link, I remember going through that last year I think!

Having watched a bit of Athletico this season, i would say the shape is not as narrow as you have it. I would also say Simeone has started to use 4411 a lot more (he already did a bit in previous years when often the second striker was replaced by Raul Garcia pleying just off). This year it has mostly been Manduzic with Griezmann just in behind, or Torres with Griezmann. Sometimes even Arda has played in the hole.

Your initial setup of one of the strikers using the "F9" might actually replicate it well (i still disagree with the principle of an F9 in a 2 striker setup! but in game terms, it might implement exactly what you are looking for)

The one thing that struck me in both legs of the recent Barca cup tie, was just how deep the entire team defended. For large periods, Torres and Griezmann were both at least 10 yards inside their own half, with the 2 banks of 4 behind them. The entire team was compressed well into their own half. Almost an ultra low block. The converse of using high press to squeeze space. They can get away with it because they have pace and strength in attacking areas, and some players who can pick a pass.

Its a very difficult setup to replicate with any side other than them, because they are simply filled with the right player types. Be interested to see how Monaco do, since in principle i would have thought they have more "flair" type players?

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/418501-Emulating-Diego-Simeone-The-Only-Way-is-Up

I made a tactic that should help you out on this in the past. Also theres a tactic that is called "Box" or something along those lines. I think that tactic does well to emulate Cholo.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/418501-Emulating-Diego-Simeone-The-Only-Way-is-Up

I made a tactic that should help you out on this in the past. Also theres a tactic that is called "Box" or something along those lines. I think that tactic does well to emulate Cholo.

Im sorry, that might well be a very good tactic but it really is not how Athletico play.

Poacher is the laziest forward role, Simeone never has time for a lazy role. THe forwards work tirelessly (Manduzic and Costa are very physical hard workers).

Simeone's wide men are never as far up the pitch as you have them. They often double up with the fullbacks to defend.

Control and push higher up is not really his approach either.

Having watched a bit of Athletico this season, i would say the shape is not as narrow as you have it. I would also say Simeone has started to use 4411 a lot more (he already did a bit in previous years when often the second striker was replaced by Raul Garcia pleying just off). This year it has mostly been Manduzic with Griezmann just in behind, or Torres with Griezmann. Sometimes even Arda has played in the hole.

Your initial setup of one of the strikers using the "F9" might actually replicate it well (i still disagree with the principle of an F9 in a 2 striker setup! but in game terms, it might implement exactly what you are looking for)

The one thing that struck me in both legs of the recent Barca cup tie, was just how deep the entire team defended. For large periods, Torres and Griezmann were both at least 10 yards inside their own half, with the 2 banks of 4 behind them. The entire team was compressed well into their own half. Almost an ultra low block. The converse of using high press to squeeze space. They can get away with it because they have pace and strength in attacking areas, and some players who can pick a pass.

Its a very difficult setup to replicate with any side other than them, because they are simply filled with the right player types. Be interested to see how Monaco do, since in principle i would have thought they have more "flair" type players?

Thanks for your input mate.

It is a bit narrow and I'm actually going to move back to a 4-4-2, or even a 4-4-1-1 as you suggested, just to provide more layers and dimensions.

You're right though with Monaco having more 'flair' type players, and again you're right with the fact it's hard to replicate with anyone but Atletico themselves!

It's still very much a work in progress so feedback is much appreciated.

I think I might go to a 4-4-1-1 or even a a 4-1-3-1-1. Just to put someone in front of the defence, then in the attacking midfield spot?

I do however think one of the key roles in the Atletico setup, and trying to implement it on FM15, is the Wide Playmaker role, I originally had Ocampos in that role but I don't think he suits it after watching a few games, he's more of a player who wants the ball at his feet to run at defenders. Maybe I might try Moutinho out there, and then use a few enforcers in the CM and DM spots. Then Ocampos on the right as the 'runner'.

Do you think I should use the counter strategy? Or maybe standard with drop deeper? How about mentality, part of me thinks being more fluid will help, but then Simeone has his teams so structured...

I think that the key to replicating Atletico is understudying the basic premises which Simeone brings to the game.

Key is organization. They defend AND attack in a very set and precise manner. All players have role and they stick to it. Simeone is a structured, some might even say a very structured manager. This does not preclude flair and creativity; I think that there are a lot of misconceptions in this regard. In 2013/14 they played a deep narrow 4-4-2 that countered quickly through Costa. This year they play much higher and somewhat wider because until Griezmann broke through/adapted, they didn't have speed guy up top.

Another key change this year has been the use of the the 4-1-2-3 and the 4-1-4-1. Some would say that these are one in the same but they aren't. The 4-1-2-3 is very narrow, almost using 3 true forwards and also very direct. Generally its been used against clubs who use three central defenders, Juventus in the first leg of their CL group and Rayo this past weekend for example. In the latest La Liga match they really pressed hard which can be seen in Griezmann's first goal. Simeone is known a tinkerer and I also think that he chooses team shape based on the players that are available.

So going forward I'd say that Atletico's current 4-4-2 looks something like this:

Standard

Structured

Gk : Moya

WB-r (a): JuanFran

WB-l (a): Ansaldi/Siqueira

CD (d): Miranda/Gimenez

CD (d): Godin/Gimenez

WM-r (a): Arda

B2B (s): Gabi

CM (d): Tiago

WP-l (s): Koke

F9 (s): Garcia early, Griezmann now

TM (s): Mandzukic

Team instructions are situational, variable and evolve during a match. "Get Stuck In", "Exploit the Flanks" and "Higher Tempo" would seem to be standard. "Play Narrower" no longer is though.

Player instructions would follow the above pattern. Saul is a different WP than Koke and Suarez is a different CM (d) than Tiago for example.

These are just some of my observations and not meant stimulate discussion.

So it seems I can't get anything even close to replicate what I want. I get beaten way too easily, give up too many shots, make dumb mistakes that I don't see Sunday leaguers make. It also seems too stagnant with the ball, and too loose and inviting pressure without the ball.

I don't want to give up, but I feel my FM knowledge tactically isn't good enough - even though I've done so much reading my head is going to explode.

So it seems I can't get anything even close to replicate what I want. I get beaten way too easily, give up too many shots, make dumb mistakes that I don't see Sunday leaguers make. It also seems too stagnant with the ball, and too loose and inviting pressure without the ball.

I don't want to give up, but I feel my FM knowledge tactically isn't good enough - even though I've done so much reading my head is going to explode.

I think part of your problem might be the team/players. It is far to often overlooked, but you really need a sytem which your players suit and can flourish in. No matter how "good" you might think your 11 is, if you are trying to make them play in a system which is contrary to their strenghts and even PPMs, it will fail.

It is like asking Real Madrid to play like Barca. Despite having possibly the strongest 1 - 11 in the business, they would not have sucess if they switched to that system, because the strength of their side is in explosive pace and movement.

This concept is amplified even more when you look to create a system which is quite unique and highly demanding like Simeone. Its a phrase i often repeat, but there is a reason that few teams in the world actually play that way. It is not because they dont fancy it (it just won La Liga and almost the CL with a vastly inferior squad and much less resources), its because you need 11 players who all have strengths to fit into this system. Cerci was a great example of this - A wierd type of signing. He does not offer the same qualities that Simeone expects and it is no coincidence that he was sent packing after half a season and (i think) not a single goal or assist.

I know you might not want to be boring and play as Athletico to create this, but maybe give it a try. You might find more success and show that you do actually know what you are doing tactically. I would do it and create both the 442 and the 4411 and rotate them as necessary. Start basic and build from there : )

I think part of your problem might be the team/players. It is far to often overlooked, but you really need a sytem which your players suit and can flourish in. No matter how "good" you might think your 11 is, if you are trying to make them play in a system which is contrary to their strenghts and even PPMs, it will fail.

It is like asking Real Madrid to play like Barca. Despite having possibly the strongest 1 - 11 in the business, they would not have sucess if they switched to that system, because the strength of their side is in explosive pace and movement.

This concept is amplified even more when you look to create a system which is quite unique and highly demanding like Simeone. Its a phrase i often repeat, but there is a reason that few teams in the world actually play that way. It is not because they dont fancy it (it just won La Liga and almost the CL with a vastly inferior squad and much less resources), its because you need 11 players who all have strengths to fit into this system. Cerci was a great example of this - A wierd type of signing. He does not offer the same qualities that Simeone expects and it is no coincidence that he was sent packing after half a season and (i think) not a single goal or assist.

I know you might not want to be boring and play as Athletico to create this, but maybe give it a try. You might find more success and show that you do actually know what you are doing tactically. I would do it and create both the 442 and the 4411 and rotate them as necessary. Start basic and build from there : )

Yeah I am starting to think that too. A lot of it comes down to the fact that you need the right players to play this way and Monaco for the most part, don't.

I've dropped the two CM players into the DM spot, and the player in the F9 spot into an AM spot as an AP. I've also got the ML as a wide playmaker which I'm re-training Moutinho to play in that role as I think he's the perfect one, and sadly the only one in my squad currently able to fit that role. I moved Ocampos to MR as a wide midfielder and trying to use his dribbling abilities.

Just as a follow up to Jambo's observations, I'm going to throw up the elephant in the room here - if you want to create an Athletico Madrid tactic, why not use Athletico Madrid?

In terms of your stated objectives, you'd still be getting away from the English Prem, broadening your knowledge of other leagues, using a team you can use to challenge the dominance of the established "elite" and you would be picking the team that should already be set up for the style you wish to play.

I know you don't always have to pick the same team for which you want to make a recreation tactic, and it can be more of a challenge if you don't, but if you think you are struggling with your chosen team it might be an option .

Yeah I am starting to think that too. A lot of it comes down to the fact that you need the right players to play this way and Monaco for the most part, don't.

I've dropped the two CM players into the DM spot, and the player in the F9 spot into an AM spot as an AP. I've also got the ML as a wide playmaker which I'm re-training Moutinho to play in that role as I think he's the perfect one, and sadly the only one in my squad currently able to fit that role. I moved Ocampos to MR as a wide midfielder and trying to use his dribbling abilities.

The clue is in the first paragraph. I admire your persistence, but you have to read the last line of your first para and then ask why you are continuing to try and make it work with players whom you acknowledge are not suited to it - Thats kinda poor management

u can sign too aggressive players,is the best for replicate the cholo-style: "match to match" , watch the yest match vs FCB

So it seems this is evolving into developing a tactic that's not exactly like Simeone's, but based on the idea of having a solid defensive shape and having versatile players all about teamwork and relying on each other to fulfill their individual roles for the good of the team.

I'm going to continue to develop a tactic using that as my framework.

Update to the progress and development of my tactic.

This is what it looks like:

Instructions:

I have a strict set of player instructions for certain positions, and depending on which players are in those positions.

I am finding this tactic to be quite successful so far, it hasn't conceded at all (6 games). It's pretty fun to watch going forward too, I still think it needs to create more going forward, but I'm not sure if that'll effect how extremely solid it is defensively.