An Exploration Into Diego Simeone's Counter-Attacking 442

In a time dominated by passing and possession one man is making defending and playing direct cool again. That man is Diego Simeone. He's taken his Atletico Madrid team to joint top of La Liga with Barcelona despite having to sell his best players every year. And how has he done this? By playing a direct, counter-attacking 442.

For further reading on Simeone's tactic this blog is quite interesting... http://thinkfootball.co.uk/archives/12364

The purpose at this thread will be to look at how to set up an effective Counter-Attacking tactic but also the squad building that goes with it as I think a lot of people (including myself) don't think about that aspect of playing in certain styles enough. Now i'm not the best at tactics but can make a decent attacking one. A defensive one, on the other hand, is a whole other kettle of fish and much harder from my experience. The common symptoms for me are not being able to break down poor teams and getting completely over-run by the better teams. So, with the help of the community, i'm going to have a bash at doing 2 things i've never done successfully. A defensive tactic and a 442 at the same time.

There are certain goals I have for this which is where it'll get really tricky. Firstly, although possession is not important, Atletico are averaging 45% this season so I don't want to be getting 30% on a regular basis. Another major thing is that I read they have the least amount of shots against them, so again, don't want to be seeing matches where i have 30 shots against on a regular basis.

I've had a few trial and error attempts to get a starting template and have come up with this so far:

So the instructions that i'm starting with are pretty obvious really. You have to choose Hassle and Direct Passing. And from what i've seen and read they try to the ball out wide a lot so Clear Ball to Flanks should do that. Then there's Be More Disciplined, it is a defensive tactic after all.

My instinct was to go Rigid. Everyone has specific jobs and swapping positions is not encouraged. I'll stick with wwfans guide for now though and 2 Specialist roles means Fluid. I suppose Fluid will encourage my Wingers to track back too so that might be a good choice actually.

The keeper and back four are pretty straight forward. Supporting fullbacks are a must. Defense must be put first and having a marauding wingback wont do at all. I was tempted to make them Limited fullbacks just because i've never tried them but supporting will do to start.

2 DM's. One's a DLP(D) who will spray balls to the wings or over the top. The other is a no non-sense DM(D). Their main job is to protect the defense and win the ball.

The wide players were tricky. They're kind of the playmakers but there's no option for playmaker in this postion and further up the field they wouldn't track back enough and protect the FB's. Alternatively, I'm not sure about wide midfielders as they might not offer enough creativity. I've compromised with W(S). I'm hoping that they track back to defend by also play through-balls and cross the ball.

Up front I was trying to think of how to define the Villa/Costa Partnership. I'm not sure how to define them but Villa plays deeper so I've chosen CF(S) for that role. Costa is the main goal threat so i've gone with AF(A) for that role.

So that's all she wrote so far. Only thing left to do is play a few games and see how it pans out. I'll report back my findings after 5 or so games and see what went right and/or wrong and try to think of a way to improve it.

Any and all feedback/advice/abuse is welcome as i'm really not very good at this sort of thing.

So after playing five games without making any changes other than trying to play my best team here are the results:

Without going any deeper than looking at the results it's clear that it's very defensively sound. 7 goals scored and just one conceded. The goal conceded was a penalty too that shouldn't have been given.

So let's look at the positives i've picked up on so far first:

• The counter attacks are deadly - 4 of the 7 goals we scored were counters. The other 3 were all against Stoke incidentally which were a cross, a penalty and a corner. All from the right wing.
  
• Teams are finding it almost impossible to score against us - Man City scored a penality and Man Utd should have got a goal to be fair but other than that there were no real chances against us.
  
• It's effective against team much better than us.
  

Ok, so now the negatives:

• We should have thrashed Viktoria Plzen but only really created one decent chance. They were obviously parking the bus and we lacked imagination or movement to break them down.
  
• There's a pattern to how we're scoring goals. Counters through the middle or crosses from the right. There's not enough variety and if I can't counter the team i'm playing then I'm 100% relying on a right wing cross to find it's target.
  
• Ball retention is very poor. I know i'm not too concerned with possession but over the 5 games we averaged 39% Possession and 68% Pass Completion. Neither of those stats are quite good enough. If we don't have the ball we can't score. It again goes to highlight the over reliance on counters.
  
• Seeing a bit too much long ball football as opposed to direct. There's a fine line between the two and at the minute our defenders are crossing it.
  

How to improve things

Well the two biggest issues for me at the moment are distribution from the GK and back four can be, at times, terrible. In the Stoke game Begovic had a 23.8% pass completion! The defenders are hit and miss really. One match they pass well and the next they're poor.

My other issue at the minute is the 2 DM's. They're too static when we're in possession and don't support the attack enough. Unfortunately I can tell them to get further forward.

In this picture you can see us on the attack which they raced up with but then stopped dead like they'd hit a brick wall as soon as they got this point. I want them to move to roughly where the arrow points when we're in attack and then drop back to DM's when we lose the ball. Perhaps if I made the DM(D) and DM(S) that would help.

Also, i'm not sure the striker combination is right. When the CF(S) get's the ball and runs at the defense he can run out of options pretty quick. The AF is high up and the wingers stay out wide and no one is moving up from the middle. Seeing as all my assist are coming from the right wing maybe I can get the Left Winger to cut inside and take up a position behind the AF.

Very interesting start mate I will follow!

Have you thought about maybe setting one of the DMs at the CM strata? Could add your midfield an attacking dimension while keeping things still fairly defensive minded.

Anything I do to that centre midfield seems to make me instantly more leaky. Even just changing one them to support. I didn't notice but I had told both wingers to get forward more and now i've taken that off things look a lot more like they should to me.

Have you tried making your DMd into a BWM which could be Support or would he end up being a bit too much of a loose cannon for you. As a BWMs he would support the attack more.

Interesting. I'm using a 442 counter tactic with Anderlecht and so far it's not working out great.

This could be an interesting thread. In my current Plymouth save I've got a good, fairly bog standard, 442 working pretty well for me. However, when I come up against a better team or one playing a pretty attacking formation (hello Dag & Red with your unorthodox 4123 formation) it tends to come unstuck and I would like a more defensive formation to use.

I was looking at the 442 with 2 DMs as I dont really have the strikers to be able to play a 451/41221 or similar. Have you got a striker that is suited to the DLF-S or F9 position, or one that could be trained to get the Comes Deep PPM. Then you'd be playing a sort of ersatz 4231 and it might help fill that gap you're seeing without affecting your defensive stability.

Edit: Actually after reading the article you linked, is it worth trying to see if you can get your two wingers to Sit Narrower and let your two full backs be more attacking? Maybe change the DMs to an Anchorman and DLP-D so they sit and are able to cover any gaps your fullbacks might leave? Then you would have a sort of ersatz 4222 Box.

Yes, ersatz is my word of the day.

Personally I would change the DLP to a DM or Anchor Man.

You dont want your defenders looking for a playmaker in the middle, you want the first ball to be a simple pass out wide to one of your wingers.

I would forget about trying to get your DM's to contribute to the attack aswell, unless they are really quick its unlikely they'll be able to cover the distance.

I agree with the post above, try and get your fullbacks involved they usually have pace to burn.

"Wide players position themselves like wingers, but play like playmakers" - Would a Wide Midfielder work better than a Winger, then? The wingers would dribble a lot less then and may look to perform more 'playmaking' duties.

I've been waiting for a thread like this for ages! I love watching Simoene's Atleti, but have never really tried to recreate it in FM 14. Subscribed to the thread and will be more than happy to test!

Have you tried making your DMd into a BWM which could be Support or would he end up being a bit too much of a loose cannon for you. As a BWMs he would support the attack more.

I did think about that but even as a DM(D) he's running around like mad. I'd be a bit concerned about leaving gaps in front of the defense. I might give it a try at some point though to see.

Interesting. I'm using a 442 counter tactic with Anderlecht and so far it's not working out great.

I do find counter tactics really hard to work. I think having the right players is key more so than most other styles.

This could be an interesting thread. In my current Plymouth save I've got a good, fairly bog standard, 442 working pretty well for me. However, when I come up against a better team or one playing a pretty attacking formation (hello Dag & Red with your unorthodox 4123 formation) it tends to come unstuck and I would like a more defensive formation to use.

I was looking at the 442 with 2 DMs as I dont really have the strikers to be able to play a 451/41221 or similar. Have you got a striker that is suited to the DLF-S or F9 position, or one that could be trained to get the Comes Deep PPM. Then you'd be playing a sort of ersatz 4231 and it might help fill that gap you're seeing without affecting your defensive stability.

Edit: Actually after reading the article you linked, is it worth trying to see if you can get your two wingers to Sit Narrower and let your two full backs be more attacking? Maybe change the DMs to an Anchorman and DLP-D so they sit and are able to cover any gaps your fullbacks might leave? Then you would have a sort of ersatz 4222 Box.

Yes, ersatz is my word of the day.

It is very box like with the way the wingers sit narrow. I'm getting joy using an out and out winger on the right but I think it'd be more true to Atletico's tactic to have the wide men tucking in and almost playing like a box 4222.

Personally I would change the DLP to a DM or Anchor Man.

You dont want your defenders looking for a playmaker in the middle, you want the first ball to be a simple pass out wide to one of your wingers.

I would forget about trying to get your DM's to contribute to the attack too much aswell, unless they are really quick its unlikely they'll be able to cover the distance.

I agree with the post above, try and get your fullbacks involved they usually have pace to burn.

I think there is potential for getting my FB's involved more going forward. Especially when I'm playing against team that sit deep.

Looking at the screenshot, its not the best counter attacking opportunity.

There are 4 defenders behind the ball and another 5 in close proximity, even if Orsic beats the 2 men and gets a cross in Xisco has to beat another 2 men to the ball.

You need to draw the opposition out more so you can outnumber the defence or at least get into one on one situations.

I would drop the direct passing, and play shorter in your own half.

I would also suggest dropping the Hassle the Opponents shout and set the front 4 with roles where they can press more, your defence should be solid if the initial press fails.

Koke is definitely a wide midfielder when he plays out wide. He's not a winger. Turan could be either a winger or wide midfielder. He seems like a 10 type.

Also what's the point of having two DMs on defend? You might aswell but the DLP on support.

As far as squad building goes, pace is the answer.

Your full backs, wingers and advanced forward should all have at least 16-17 for pace, stamina is useful aswell as they'll be running up and down the pitch all match.

Matic is a mental powerhouse but he has no pace and 9 for stamina, I bet he finishes some matches with less than 50% in the tank.

Also WhoScored is a good site for getting an idea of a teams style based on the stats.

http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/63

Atletico Madrid Characteristics

+ Strengths Counter attacks Very Strong

Attacking down the wings Very Strong

Creating chances using through balls Very Strong

Creating scoring chances Very Strong

Finishing scoring chances Very Strong

Stealing the ball from the opposition Very Strong

Defending set pieces Strong

Atletico Madrid Style

Take a lot of shots

Attack through the middle

Control the game in the opposition's half

Attempt through balls often

Short passes

Consistent first eleven

Looking at the screenshot, its not the best counter attacking opportunity.

There are 4 defenders behind the ball and another 5 in close proximity, even if Orsic beats the 2 men and gets a cross in Xisco has to beat another 2 men to the ball.

You need to draw the opposition out more so you can outnumber the defence or at least get into one on one situations.

I would drop the direct passing, and play shorter in your own half.

I would also suggest dropping the Hassle the Opponents shout and set the front 4 with roles where they can press more, your defence should be solid if the initial press fails.

Dropping the pressing and passing kind of goes against what i'm trying to do. Plus whenever i've tried a counter tactic before without the pressing I get torn apart.

Koke is definitely a wide midfielder when he plays out wide. He's not a winger. Turan could be either a winger or wide midfielder. He seems like a 10 type.

Also what's the point of having two DMs on defend? You might aswell but the DLP on support.

I've changed one of the wide players to WM(S) with sits narrow and gets further forward instructions. I agree about Turan too. How would you define Villa/Costa?

As far as squad building goes, pace is the answer.

Your full backs, wingers and advanced forward should all have at least 16-17 for pace, stamina is useful aswell as they'll be running up and down the pitch all match.

Matic is a mental powerhouse but he has no pace and 9 for stamina, I bet he finishes some matches with less than 50% in the tank.

Yeah, pace and stamina are a given for countering. Matic is fantastic for me but usually needs to get subbed which is a shame. I'm going to try and have a look at what people have been doing in matches a lot to try and build a better picture of what type of players I need in each postition.

So i've been making a few adjustments and the tactic has now evolved slightly into something a bit more potent in attack which helps against weaker teams but things are still very tight at the back when we face the bigger teams. It's looking like this now:

I've made a few changes to what I had from before. The DLP(D) is now an A(D) after the advice that a playmaker might stop balls being played to the wings as much I kept an eye on this. I more noticed balls being played back by the wingers rather than trying to play a striker in so that's why that got changed.

The striker force has now been changed to a DLF(S) and CF(A). I wasn't too happy about the way it was before and I feel with this it might create more clear chances as they are both creative types as opposed to just the one creative forward I had before.

As i'd mentioned, a lot of my goals were being created by the right winger so I thought I'd let him be more attacking and it's working a treat so far with 10 of my last 16 goals being created from this flank. Corners might count towards that too but still, it's by far my most creative area.

The downside is that my left flank isn't creating much. I'm really not sure what to do here. My idea was to play a playmaker here (Belhanda) and give him the instructions above to try and make him cut inside and slide through-balls to the strikers ahead of him but that's not happening at all. It's an area I really need to think about how to make the most of as at the minute i'm relying far too much on my right winger.

Overall though things are going well. After 10 games this season I've won 8 drawn 1 lost 1 so i'm on the right track I think.

Found this very very interesting. I am tempted to try out a 4-4-2 variation. Probably with Arsenal, but I think I will be trying to follow how Pellagrini is setting Man City out.

Looking forward to further updates and analysis!

Found this very very interesting. I am tempted to try out a 4-4-2 variation. Probably with Arsenal, but I think I will be trying to follow how Pellagrini is setting Man City out.

Looking forward to further updates and analysis!

Thanks. It's not that different from Man City really in terms of shape and roles. Man City just seem a more adventurous, possession based version.

I've almost got it finished, just want to play a full season with it to really see it's strengths and weaknesses. I'll try to post something soon.

Thanks. It's not that different from Man City really in terms of shape and roles. Man City just seem a more adventurous, possession based version.

I've almost got it finished, just want to play a full season with it to really see it's strengths and weaknesses. I'll try to post something soon.

Yeah it will be similar. Probably use the same shape, I do feel a little limited by the role options in the MR/ML slots though. Will be fun though, will let you know how I get on.

Looking forward to hearing how the season goes

Yeah it will be similar. Probably use the same shape, I do feel a little limited by the role options in the MR/ML slots though. Will be fun though, will let you know how I get on.

Looking forward to hearing how the season goes

I don't think I've seen anyone try Pellegrini's tactics yet so will be interesting. I'd be tempted to try it as a 424 with an AP(S) in the Nasri role and WB(A) bombing past him. W(S) and FB(A) on the other side to get the Navas/Zabaleta combination. I'm not sure how to describe the front two.

I don't think I've seen anyone try Pellegrini's tactics yet so will be interesting. I'd be tempted to try it as a 424 with an AP(S) in the Nasri role and WB(A) bombing past him. W(S) and FB(A) on the other side to get the Navas/Zabaleta combination. I'm not sure how to describe the front two.

Yeah I was thinking along those lines. To be honest I imagine I will end up putting my own spin on it a little bit to suit players and my tastes. But a AP was deffo something I was looking at, was thinking of going slightly asymmetric and just having an MR on the right as a W(a) from that spot.

All ideas right now, need to get them down onto canvas!

What are your thoughts on using the Halfback as one of the DM roles? This would allow your other DM to have a bit more license to get forward and perhaps one of your wing backs to be more attacking. However I guess you lose that nice defensive box (DC-DC-DM-DM) shape. Something I am considering testing anyway.

A half back may work but Atleti don't use a player in the half back role. That being said, although this thread is trying to replicate Atleti, it would be great if you tried out a half back and report how it goes.

I am going to be doing a full analysis of Atleti in the near future and will report back when it is finished. This will be very detailed and will hopefully allow for successful recreation in Football Manager.

I have only covered some of Atleti's defensive aspects in my analysis so far. It is clear that Atleti look to control the central vertical zone with a narrow 4-4-2 out of possession, which becomes very compact with little space between the lines, making it hard to play through them.

The team are a collective unit with attackers defending etc which would suggest 'very fluid', but 'fluid' would be more suitable as only 5(ish) players attack. With a 'counter' mentality, the team instructions I would use would be: hassle opponents, drop deeper, much higher tempo and short passing.

The full backs should definitely have 'press more' as a player instruction, even with hassle opponents as a team instruction. It would be interesting to experiment with 'tight marking' as a player instruction on the full backs. The centre backs are aggressive on the first ball but do not have a stopper-cover partnership, so 'tackle harder' could be used as a player instruction.

I think the player in the Costa role should be a defensive forward with the instructions 'move into channels' and 'roam from position'. The player in the Villa role should be an advanced forward with the instruction 'move into channels'. Both strikers, when the ball is won in wide areas especially, peel wide (into the channels) and look to receive the ball in a wide position before driving infield to shoot.

I am still unsure about whether to use CMs or DMs, and which roles would replicate real life.

I have only covered some of Atleti's defensive aspects in my analysis so far. It is clear that Atleti look to control the central vertical zone with a narrow 4-4-2 out of possession, which becomes very compact with little space between the lines, making it hard to play through them.

The team are a collective unit with attackers defending etc which would suggest 'very fluid', but 'fluid' would be more suitable as only 5(ish) players attack. With a 'counter' mentality, the team instructions I would use would be: hassle opponents, drop deeper, much higher tempo and short passing.

The full backs should definitely have 'press more' as a player instruction, even with hassle opponents as a team instruction. It would be interesting to experiment with 'tight marking' as a player instruction on the full backs. The centre backs are aggressive on the first ball but do not have a stopper-cover partnership, so 'tackle harder' could be used as a player instruction.

I think the player in the Costa role should be a defensive forward with the instructions 'move into channels' and 'roam from position'. The player in the Villa role should be an advanced forward with the instruction 'move into channels'. Both strikers, when the ball is won in wide areas especially, peel wide (into the channels) and look to receive the ball in a wide position before driving infield to shoot.

I am still unsure about whether to use CMs or DMs, and which roles would replicate real life.

This all sounds good. I've tried to make a Atletico style 442 but I just couldn't get it right. I won the League with 95 points! It just looked nothing like Atletico and I could never get it to counter.

How would you describe the wide players? They sort of defend like WM's but move very central in attack. Koke especially I think.

I think the best way to get them to perform like they attack is to put them in the AMR/AML strata and give them an advanced playmaker role with 'sit narrow' and 'cut inside with ball'. This, however, may be detrimental to recreating how they defend so should be experimented with.

OR

Play them as wide midfielders with 'sit narrow', 'cut inside with ball' and maybe 'get further forward'.

I've finished the defensive organisation part of my analysis but still have offensive organisation, defensive transition, offensive transition and set pieces to cover yet. It would be so much better if pressing traps could be set up in FM. The pressing side of Football Manager lacks depth and is unrealistic but we'll just have to make do with what it offers us.

As part of my analysis of the defensive side, it is noticeable that Atleti create pressing traps in wide areas. They show players wide, so I am going to try and do this with OIs and 'show onto foot'. Will update progress.

I have only covered some of Atleti's defensive aspects in my analysis so far. It is clear that Atleti look to control the central vertical zone with a narrow 4-4-2 out of possession, which becomes very compact with little space between the lines, making it hard to play through them.

The team are a collective unit with attackers defending etc which would suggest 'very fluid', but 'fluid' would be more suitable as only 5(ish) players attack. With a 'counter' mentality, the team instructions I would use would be: hassle opponents, drop deeper, much higher tempo and short passing.

The full backs should definitely have 'press more' as a player instruction, even with hassle opponents as a team instruction. It would be interesting to experiment with 'tight marking' as a player instruction on the full backs. The centre backs are aggressive on the first ball but do not have a stopper-cover partnership, so 'tackle harder' could be used as a player instruction.

I think the player in the Costa role should be a defensive forward with the instructions 'move into channels' and 'roam from position'. The player in the Villa role should be an advanced forward with the instruction 'move into channels'. Both strikers, when the ball is won in wide areas especially, peel wide (into the channels) and look to receive the ball in a wide position before driving infield to shoot.

I am still unsure about whether to use CMs or DMs, and which roles would replicate real life.

how does your team retain any defensive narrow shape with hassle opponents' drawing them out of position all over the place?

how does your team retain any defensive narrow shape with hassle opponents' drawing them out of position all over the place?

Well, that's the problem with FM - Pressing is so, so vague. Lacks any design, very unrealistic. I am hoping there will be a lot more in-depth features in tactics in the next FM.

Reading this thread gave me the will to try and a make successful 4-4-2. Been strulgling a lot with the more standard 4-4-2 (and to be honest, with the game overall xD) and seing this has lead me to try Simeone's variation with. So read a lot about how they play (first time doing this since my fm years of playing xD) and decided to give it go with, well, Atl Madrid:

-From my interpretation, Atleti uses two central midfielders;

-Their wide players are more narrower and act pretty much as two central midfielders, with one of them being allowed to go forward;

-Fullbacks don't compromise much on attack duties, although Felipe gets forward sometimes;

-They play a somewhat "counter football" but they don't just sit there waitting for opposition to give them the ball and make a striking counter, they have really nice possession;

-Ball circulates a lot in the midfield;

-The two forwards often appear on the wings when the team counters.

So, having these in mind, i choose this tactic to go with:

Having the two center mids set to defend i expect them both to be the no-nonsense midfielders: they're mostly their to cover up the all midfield. I don't expect them to contribute much with the offensive part of the system (of course this can change from game to game) so i've set them to fewer risky passes. This allows you to have two not-so-great passing players maintaining possesion, switching the ball with it each other. I have Mario Suarez and Fernando (bought from porto) who just do this briliantly.

The wide midfielders don't replicate what i wanted tho. I've set them to sit narrower and to cut inside but they always seem to be too wide. On the other this works 'cause it stretches the opposition and gives us more time to play trough the middle.

The forwards are making their job, although they're not appearing on the flanks when we go to counter as much as i wanted. But my wide midfielders really force them to appear there sometimes, so i guess for now it will have to go as we have it.

I've only played two officials games: 2-1 win against Valencia away (we were on top of them, they score from a corner (typical xD), we kept to be on top of them without me changing a single thing and we eventually got the win)

The other was against Barça at home: we managed to get a 1-0 win playing with ten men since 57min. David Villa made me smile with a goal at 75min We pretty much overpowered them as you can see from here:

I changed my aproach a bit on these game tho: Diego Costa became a defensive forward (and he was sent off and Villa took this role), my fullbacks were both on support and went with counter instead of standard; Team instructions were: droop deeper, play narrower, pass into space and be more disciplined

One thing very important is that in these two game we had fairly good possession (41% agains barcelona with 10 men isn' bad i think) so possession is rather important with replicating the Simeone's 4-4-2. But i really think the key are the 2 central midfielders: work rate, team work, positioning, stamina all at 15 or higher and pace at least at 12/13 for one of them and 14/15 for the other. If you have the money i really advice you to go and buy Fernando. He has all this and even has "plays short simple passes" as PPM xD Perfect, just perfect

Nice to see a few people trying this. It's virtually impossible to get right on FM i think though. After watching them against Valencia tonight I think there are some things that I don't agree with that i've read in articles about them.

These are the things I noticed:

Fullbacks provide Width. Fillipe in particular seemed to play like a WB(A) overlapping Koke frequently. Juanfran got forward a lot too but not as much.

Turan at RM and Costa seem to almost have free roles. Both popping up all over the pitch when in possession.

They play out of defense at a low tempo but switch the tempo up when they see a weaknesses. Maybe Direct passing or even normal passing with play out of defense shout would do this.

They are hugely reliant on Costa dropping deep and running at the defense. I think without the right player in this role the tactic could fail to make chances.

The defending is really difficult to describe and I've no luck getting CM's to act like Atletico's do dropping deep a bit like the halfback role but in a CM position. The team seems to keep shape really well and sit compact not letting anything go through the middle but as soon there's an opportunity to win the ball then the press very intensely. I don't think this will be possible on FM though so i'm at a loss to decide what to do there.

Costa has the 'drops deep' PPM on FM. Both Villa & Costa have move into channels also, which probably tries to replicate the way that Atleti play the ball wide to inside on counter attacks.

Agree with your point on full backs, Filipe definitely gets forward more.

Right about the passing but they certainly play a short passing game, not direct. They only go direct if under pressure or want to start a quick counter, which is hard to do in FM. I would say the best way to do this is have 'play out from defence' but don't have 'shorter passing' or 'more direct', because the player roles and duties used lend themselves to a short passing game.

I disagree about the halfback point. They do come very deep to receive possession but they are 100% not half backs. Half backs actually come between centre backs to receive the ball, whereas Atleti's midfield 2 come very deep but not between the CBs. As I can't post screenies, here's how I would line up:

GK-d - Quick throws

FB-a CD-d CD-d FB-a - Full backs' PI: Stay wider, close down more

WM-s DLP-d DLP-d WM-s - WM's PIs: Sit narrower, close down more (if poss) - CM's PIs: Close down more (if poss) - RM: (Roam from position?)

DF-s AF-a - Both PIs: Move into channels - DF PI: Roam from position

Team: Fluid - Defensive

Play out of defence, more disciplined, higher tempo

OR

Same TIs but hassle opponents too. Could experiment with hassle opponents and see if it works better with just PIs or TIs.

Then for opposition instructions: Show every central player wide and every wide player central. E.g. DCR - show onto right foot, MCL - show onto left foot, MR - show onto left foot, DL - show onto right foot.

This could help to recreate Atleti's pressing traps out wide and the way they force wide players to make passes back into the centre where the CMs then press.

Yeah, it's definitely hard to replicate the way of how they play. But you can get close results. The movement of Diego Costa is something i've been tried hard to get (his goal against Valencia p.e). He doesn't appear wide, he is forced to run there because my wide midfielder often puts the ball into that space (since normally no one is there, opposition or my own players) and he will sometimes cut inside and a go to goal (unfortunately my players always seem to take forever to make a shot and he often just wins corners). As far as what the midfielders do, i really think setting them as i have is the closest thing you got. They sit deep but not has deep as half backs/defensive midfielders and when we are attacking they never compromise themselves too much. The ball either goes to one of the wide midfielders or they just pass to each other, waitting for the opposition to open a gap

*one thing i forgot to say: Felipe already has a bunch of PPM's that naturally sent him forward, so putting him as a CWB (A) maybe be too much. As a FB (A) he has worked very well for me, overlaping Koke a bunch of times and providing the width on the the left side we need. And JamieAdams3 those are some really nice advices about OI's, definitely going to try them

Great to see more people trying to replicate Simeone's brilliant tactics!

Currently I'm trying make my Uruguayan Second Division side, Atenas de San Carlos, play like Atletico and I think I'm making good progress.

At the moment my team is set up like this:

These are the player instructions I use:

Central Defenders: Pass It Shorter

Wing Backs: Get Further Forward; Stay Wider; Run Wide With Ball; Tackle Harder

Deep Lying Playmaker: Mark Tighter; Tackle Harder; More Direct Passes

Central Midfielder: Mark Tighter; Tackle Harder

Inside Forwards: Sit Narrower; Hold Position; Mark Tighter; Tackle Harder

Defensive Forward: Move Into Channels; Roam From Position; More Risky Passes

Complete Forward: Move Into Channels; Shoot Less Often

I've given the entire team the instruction to get stuck in and mark tighter to make my team work harder. Because I play Very Rigid and defensive, players won't get dragged out of position to much.

When I don't have the ball, I absolutely love how everyone lines up perfectly behind the ball (because both strikers are on support and my team drops deeper) just like Atletico does IRL.

When the opponent then passes the ball to the flanks, my wide players double up on the guy with the ball and most of the time prevent a cross from coming in the box or win the ball. The Higher Tempo and Exploit The Middle shouts, make my team counter very effectively through the middle, when the ball is won.

Furthermore, the Drill Crosses and Look For Overlap instructions speak for themselves. Obviously, Atletico causes a lot of danger with their wingbacks overlapping their wide midfielders, who drift inside perfectly from the AML/R positions in this tactic.

In the big games, you could set up your right back as a fullback who is a little more defensive minded than his colleague on the left.

For the your player in the Turan-role I think you could also replace the Hold Position instructions with the Roam From Position instruction. I've not done this at the moment because I don't have a good inside forward with a high rating for creativity, but I also don't think he will track back as much then as he does now. Currently, the inside forwards are doing pretty much exactly what I want them to do.

Drifting inside when I have the ball and allowing the Wing Backs to overlap, but also picking up the wide midfielder position when I don't have the ball.

Your aproach with the wide midfielders is something worth trying for me, as at the moment i'm not being able to replicate their movement that well. Maybe you can set one of them (or both) to try more riskys passes (if this is possible) to make them similar to Arda Turan. I also started my tactic with DLF(S) and DF(S) but the DF(S) wasn't giving me enough width and i changed him to AF(A) (althought for more thougher games i put him as a defensive forward and works well on this ocassions). As for as fullbacks go, i agree with you that they give more width that what I thought to begin with, althought both my fullbacks have very offensive PPM's and I don't want them to compromise that much to attack, so i set them as fullbacks and, for now, it's working (maybe I'll try to change them against weaker sides to see how it goes)

The only problem at the moment with my wide midfielders occurs when my opponent plays a very defensive back four with their fullbacks staying back all the time. In this situation, the wide players are getting dragged out of position, because they still tend to mark the fullbacks high up the pitch. However this is not causing problems at the moment, I still am a little bit worried about this. What is gonna happen when the oppositions central midfielders start to move into wide areas? Will my central midfielders follow and will I get exposed in the middle then?

Because the wide midfielders are set as IF's they will automatically play more risky passes. They regularly get assists, so that is looking pretty good.

Funny to hear that about your striking partnership... Because I eventually started exactly how you've set them up now (DLF(S) and AF(A)). However, I thought the AF(A) stayed too high up the pitch without possesion, so I changed him to DLF(S) and the left striker to DF(S). I instructed the DF(S) to play more risky passes and made him roam from position together with the instruction to move into channels, in order to create a more fluid strike partnership. I also changed the DLF(S) to CF(S), because I thought this recreated the Diego Costa role better.

So basically my DF(S) is my David Villa and the CF(S) is my Diego Costa.

Here is my analysis of Atletico Madrid's defensive organisation. Please read and share if you enjoy it. Part 2, 3, 4 & 5 to come!

Team Analysis | Atlético Madrid – Part 1: Defensive Organisation

http://t.co/5zoSqK3Rk1

EDIT: It is rather in-depth, so take your time reading it. Now, how are we going to implement this into FM?!

Wow, that is definitely a brilliant analysis! Really looking forward to the next parts!

A really small remark I would want to make, is that I don't really know if you can use the game against Real as an example for the rest of their games. Because of their early lead, they almost solely focused on defending the rest of the game. Therefore I don't really know if this is a very good example.

Overall, the analysis is still a really informative read.

I think the biggest problem with implementing this into FM, is going to be Atléti's pressing. The defensive stages are going to be really hard to recreate.

Thanks a lot!

I see what you mean with the Real Madrid game but when you look how they played, it is no different to how they played against Porto when they won 2-0 last week. They had just 28% possession when going 2-0 up. They have a defensive mentality in near enough every game. They were hardly hanging on for dear life against Real in comparison to other matches; they still managed 12 shots and 11 take-ons after they went 1-0 up. Anyway, it signifies their defensive stability even further if Real had to throw everything at them and still didn't score!

Definitely. I managed to replicate pressing traps in wide areas by doing this:

Took away hassle opponents

TIs: Get stuck in, play narrower

PIs for the full backs (FB-a): Close down more, tight marking

PIs for the CMs (DLP-d): Close down more

OIs: DCR, MCR, ML, DL show onto right foot - DCL, MCL, MR, DR show onto left foot - MR, ML close down always

It replicates them excellently but the only problem is that the CMs come over well too far and often leave big gaps in the middle so perhaps I could use tight marking instead of close down more.

hi JamieAdams3,

Very nice article about atleti´s defensive positioning...a lot of work put in that article, so congrats.

Im also kinda obssesed whit atléti team right know and also would like to see how it can be replicated.

Just one question, the Team Instructions above include the other one in your post? Or this are the only TIs that you use?

Thanks.

@JamieAdams3

I agree I'd read a few articles watched Athletico and set up a tactic very similar to you have. Defensive mentality with Fluid philosophy if definitely the way to go I think, although i'm trying to make it work with the Valencia squad.

DLPs, WMs and a Defensive Forward and Advanced Forward is how I see it, Costa closes down very aggressively IRL.

2nd game beat Barcelona 2-0 with lethal counters and Barca not creating a single CCC. Still playing around with the wide players - one thing that i'm not sure about is crossing. They crossed a lot more with Falcao than they do now but am experimenting with the Cross the Ball Early shout as I think if the fullbacks can so this it will make it more varied going forward.

Still struggling a bit with breaking down the defensive teams but I don't have the right front 2 movement yet as I need to train some PPMs - still top of La Liga after 8 games so we'll see.

Here is what I have:

http://imgur.com/3ccVoxM

PIs:

GK - Quick throws

DR/DL - Close down more, mark tighter

DC - Mark tighter

MR/ML - Cut inside with ball, sit narrower, get further forward

MC - Pass it shorter, close down more, mark tighter

STCL (AF-a) - Move into channels

STCR (DF-s) - Move into channels, roam from position, dribble more

OIs:

Show onto right foot - DCR, DL, MCR, ML

Show onto left foot - DCL, DR, MCL, MR

Close down always - ML, MR, MCL, MCR

I have found with mixed or short passing it's really hard to get the quick counters like you get with Direct Passing, you get more possession but far fewer chances so at the moment i'm playing Direct passing.

Still really struggling against teams who play defensively, and conceding a lot of set pieces which is making it tough to get consistent results.

I'll be covering set pieces as part of my analysis so you could even try and replicate that if you want.

I'm going to take away short passing and see if it is detrimental, I'm pretty sure the roles given to the players lend themselves to a shorter passing game anyway.

That looks very good, being 7-0 up in 26th minute

I will definitely try your OI's.

At first, I had Fluidity on very rigid, to create a very organised defense, but I'm currently experimenting with setting it to Fluid or even Very Fluid. I have to say I'm still not very familiar with this setting. Can you explain why you have set it to fluid?

Another thing then... I was wondering how your MC's on support play. Do they protect the defense enough?

To come back at how Atleti play. I agree with you that they play defensive in almost every game, but I must say that I have seen them varying in how radical they are. In the game against Real, they went 1-0 up very early in the game. Therefore, they could sit very deep and focus on defending while at the other end there was more and more space for them to counter.

Against teams in La Liga who are happy with a draw against them, they're pressing a little more. Valencia, last week was a good example I think. Valencia kept a lot of players behind the ball. So there was very little space for Atleti to counter. They only managed to shoot at goal 3 times. In the second half they started to press more and they created a lot more chances.

It was a really poor side I played against in a friendly so it isn't as good as it looks haha!

I used fluid as it means attacking players contribute to attack, defenders contribute to defending, and all players contribute to transition. I used 'more disciplined' with it to decrease creative freedom. With regards the CMs, I'm experimenting with them at the moment. With the defend duty, I found that there was very little support in attacks from the centre.

I agree with the point that they vary their pressing from game to game. However, with your example vs Valencia: Valencia put men behind the ball, forcing Atleti to take more control of possession higher up the pitch. This, in turn, meant that when they lost the ball high up due to having to keep the ball higher up, they pressed immediately in Defensive Transition (the transition from attack to defence). This is known as counterpressing (gegenpressing), which teams such as Bayern, Dortmund & Barcelona have used in the past. This makes it appear like they are initiating a high press but they only press high up when they're in the transition phase. If Valencia were to go and try to control possession higher up, we'd have seen Atletico in a deep shape again. I'll be covering this in my transition piece. I may have worded that in a way that is confusing, if so, ask and I will try and simplify it.

Good to see that you're challenging ideas and watching games! Could do with more of that on the forum.

Haha, already thought that. Still curious what the final score was though..

Okay, thank you. Fluid sounds a lot more realistic then. Think I'm gonna start a new game with Atleti to make things a little easier. I think Atleti's squad might be a little more suitable for the tactic then my Atenas de San Carlos squad is hahaha.

Gegenpressing as an explanation does make a lot of sense indeed. You've actually worded that in brilliant way.

Isn't that also how we've seen Arsenal and Southampton press in Premier League? I had actually noticed teams pressed that way, but I never knew it was called "gegenpressing" and also never noticed Atletico pressed that way. Did they also played that way against Real?

Translating this into FM is going to be hard I believe. I have thought of trying to play like that with Southampton, but never came up with an idea how to do it, so I didn't really gave it a shot. Definitely going to give a shot with Atleti know.

EDIT: About the CM's

Maybe playing them as DLP(S) in the DM spot works?

I'm sure it actually only ended up 8-0. Players were 'uninterested' in the 2nd half.

Hahaha I'll admit that I've never heard of them! Give it a go with Atleti, mate.

Thanks. As for Southampton, read this: http://eplindex.com/45106/southampton-scouting-report.html

As for Arsenal, I wouldn't know as I haven't seen much of them this season. A lot of teams use gegenpressing but it is often disjointed, especially in England. By this I mean that it is often only 1 or 2 players pressing whilst the rest of the team get back in position. The best teams implement it through design, where the whole team squeezes play into a compact area to delay an opposition counter-attack, and if the ball is won this way, it can put teams in a very good position to score as they win the ball back high up the field.

Read my piece on the different types of pressing here to gain a more clear understanding: http://jamieadams3.wordpress.com/2013/10/02/the-importance-of-pressing-in-modern-football-why-the-english-game-must-keep-up/

It will be very hard to put Atleti's system into FM due to the complexity of their pressing. As I have said before, it would be great in future versions if pressing could be designed in the tactical creator. For example, split the pitch into zones and highlight which zones to place the team in when in Defensive Organisation (in Atleti's case, leaving the flanks free). This could go on to create pressing traps etc.

About the CMs, I will give that a shot!

EDIT: About Atleti vs Real, if you watch the goal, it was a result of counterpressing!

I have been using olivermain83's tactic from post #16 with a slight tweak. I have the ML as a simple winger with the same instructions as the MR, and I use the control strategy specially in home games as we have difficulties scoring against teams who play more defensively.

I've had a bit of time away from my save where I was trying to replicate this but there's some serious effort going on in here. I wish I could be that disciplined at analysing teams. Think I might have to give it give it another go now though.