Private chats too unreasonable?

So i have taken over a new club in the championship and theres is a player on 46.5k per week and way past his peak, therefore i transfer list him before he sucks the club dry, he complains i have a private chat and tell him we cant afford to keep him, he asks me if im trying to make things worse.... im actually trying to save the club from debt and alls he wants to do is put the club in debt depsite the fact hes told the fans hes being forced out of the club, surely if he cared about the club he would understand that we cnt afford to keep him on a wage like that....

Hes unwilling to accept mutual termination too.

I get the feeling with player interactions that the lack of discipline is terrible. The way some players react is horrendous, fair enough some real life players have shocking attitudes but in general most know that the gaffer is the one who calls the shots! I've found in FM that players dictate things to you, even the younger players and you end up at their feet.

The lack of repsect from players towards the manager in interaction is poor, the Man Utd team in real life know Fergie is in charge and wouldn't dare show disrespect or ignorance towards him. This is the same with the majority of managers regardless of how long they have been at a club. The manager is in charge! The players in FM seem to call the shots and during player interactions it seems the manager has no respect whatsoever.

People react differntly, maybe if you put yourself in the person you are talking too.

"Hi boss, what do you want to talk about?"

"OK so you want to get rid of me, after all I have done for you and this club?"

Inside he feels he can offer much more, doent feel past his peak or doesnt want to admit it.

You are also removing his livelihood, the one thing he knows how to do well and at a place he loves...

On a slightly related topic I've had players talk to me about wanting to leave the club but when I transfer list them they moan an complain about being forced out of the club.

People react differntly, maybe if you put yourself in the person you are talking too.

"Hi boss, what do you want to talk about?"

"OK so you want to get rid of me, after all I have done for you and this club?"

Inside he feels he can offer much more, doent feel past his peak or doesnt want to admit it.

You are also removing his livelihood, the one thing he knows how to do well and at a place he loves...

If he doesnt leave the club will enter financial difficulty, whats more important? He can still play for another club for less money if hes being realistic and wants to play he should realise hes declining and would have to make that choice instead of trying to ruin a club. Now he feels alienated and wont talk to me, childish.

If he doesnt leave the club will enter financial difficulty, whats more important? He can still play for another club for less money if hes being realistic and wants to play he should realise hes declining and would have to make that choice instead of trying to ruin a club. Now he feels alienated and wont talk to me, childish.

thats not his fault or his problem, the club offered him a contact, he wants to get paid for that contract, nothing wrong with that, and nothing childish about that.

Are you joking? Hes telling th fans im forcing him out, the fans would want him out if he was going to wreck the club, my point is if he cared about the club he would leave which he claims he does, obviously there would be spoilt brats who wouldnt care but he is contradicting himself

You are forcing him out!! Again it is not his fault the club gave him that contact, and it is not his fault the club is struggling because of his contract, its the clubs problem to work around, your have come in a tried to kick him out the door just so you can try and save money, you would be running a very very fine line with the PFA in that situation, and would probably get the club into a lot of trouble. Just because you care about a club does not mean your going to easily walk away from a £45k a week contract, not at the end of your career.

Your missing the point, if he didnt care then he shoud say it but he said he loves the club and fans in real life if that was true he would understand the problems hes causing, furthermore i can categorically say that the PFA would have no say over a clubs decision to transfer list someone over financial difficulties.

I understand what your saying, my point is that hes contradicting himself, there should be more options as replies, like "thats not my problem i dont care about the club they should have thought about that before they signed me" then i would be like alteast everyone knows where they stand

I understand what your saying, my point is that hes contradicting himself, there should be more options as replies, like "thats not my problem i dont care about the club they should have thought about that before they signed me" then i would be like alteast everyone knows where they stand

Not exactly how your first post put it... I think you should either offer him a contract at a lower wage or just find other ways to save money. He has a contract and the right for it to be honoured, I would not like it if my boss spoke to me like you have done to your player and I WOULD feel like I am being forced out!

Alls i said to him was the club cant afford to keep him, calmly, i have been honest their is nothing wrong with how i have spoken to him, the problem is he went to the press an i had to reitererate we cant keep him, the options i had too select where not very helpful, hence the problems with private chat, and i cant offer him a lower contract now because hes just ignoring me.

Sorry for not being EXACT...

Another example of bad interaction, a guy wants to go i said he can go in the next window he said he cant wait that long so my only options are "im the boss" and "your being unprofessionial" or lets leave it for now.... i cant even say "ok"

the only response i've ever recevied is 'are you trying to make things worse?'.

doesn't matter what i say.

'i'm the boss'

'i dont see a future for you'

'dont be unprofessional'

i'd rather say 'you'll get your chance to play in the coming weeks' but that option isn't always availalbe.

Seems like its not that chats are unreasonable, its that the options we want are not always available.

I understand in the heat of the moment its not always easy to convey the message you want. I too understand that the "right" option is not always available, it was mentioned a long time ago in FM11 for team talks.

I think there has to be a balance to help the engine work out whats going on but sometimes it backs us, the user, into a corner!

So i have taken over a new club in the championship and theres is a player on 46.5k per week and way past his peak, therefore i transfer list him before he sucks the club dry, he complains i have a private chat and tell him we cant afford to keep him, he asks me if im trying to make things worse.... im actually trying to save the club from debt and alls he wants to do is put the club in debt depsite the fact hes told the fans hes being forced out of the club, surely if he cared about the club he would understand that we cnt afford to keep him on a wage like that....

Hes unwilling to accept mutual termination too.

Two words....Jimmy Bullard!!!

Seems like its not that chats are unreasonable, its that the options we want are not always available.

I understand in the heat of the moment its not always easy to convey the message you want. I too understand that the "right" option is not always available, it was mentioned a long time ago in FM11 for team talks.

I think there has to be a balance to help the engine work out whats going on but sometimes it backs us, the user, into a corner!

This, i agree with!

Well, Winston Bogarde didn't want to leave Chelsea a couple of years ago when they tried to get rid of him because of his ridiculous salary. So he played year in year out in their reserves because he wanted to serve out his contract (read get the money he was promised)

Although I don't like this behaviour, he was right that they offered him the contract so had to live with the consequences.

By the way, Bogarde is my all time favorite player so I don't understand why Chelsea would get rid of him in the first place.

Mancini's just come out and said the same thing about Wayne Bridge - he can't understand why he wants to stay at the club in the reserves instead of playing regularly. I don't think the reaction is that bad in the case above. It's not unreasonable for the player to think he's being victimised. There will be other players that could be sold instead of him and if he's on such a bumper contract so late in his career he probably wants to see it out since he won't get a better deal elsewhere.

Player interaction in it's current state is atrocious. As has been said, players are ridiculously insubordinate and it seems far worse in FM12 than in FM11, which is no mean feat because it was pretty bad in FM11.

I get that some players have egos and need to be pampered, but a lot of the time there is simply no way to make them happy with a decision you've made, whatever you say will lead to a bad response in so many situations.

I've heard some suggestions that your repuation matters, but I have a continental repuation and most of my club has me listed under favourite persons, but I still find it impossible to explain tough decisions to players in a way that makes them okay with it.

What's even more bizarre is when a player has played particularly well and you tell him so, he can actually get angry at you saying that you must have a different idea as to what constitutes a good performance (typically he will have played at 8+ and scored, it makes no difference).

Player interactions and press conferences are two areas where it is abundantly clear that I am playing a computer game as they ruin any immersion due to how daft and unpredictable the responses are.

Mancini's just come out and said the same thing about Wayne Bridge - he can't understand why he wants to stay at the club in the reserves instead of playing regularly. I don't think the reaction is that bad in the case above. It's not unreasonable for the player to think he's being victimised. There will be other players that could be sold instead of him and if he's on such a bumper contract so late in his career he probably wants to see it out since he won't get a better deal elsewhere.

The point im making is i know he would be dissapointed but i would appreciate it if the conversation was able to go as far as me not being happy about having to list him, a way of trying to avoid a bad relationship but it gets to the point so fast that you cant say anything nice to them, or atleast a little less damaging, i dont want to be cold with them, and youre right about bridge but he hasnt came out and said he loves the club and fans and is not happy about being listed and that, but he is sitting on the wage. My hands are tied because of the financial difficulties, therefore he should still be upset yes, but he should have a little understanding that its not a personal attack, im trying to save the club, the options to explain that enough just are not there.

Player interaction in it's current state is atrocious. As has been said, players are ridiculously insubordinate and it seems far worse in FM12 than in FM11, which is no mean feat because it was pretty bad in FM11.

I get that some players have egos and need to be pampered, but a lot of the time there is simply no way to make them happy with a decision you've made, whatever you say will lead to a bad response in so many situations.

I've heard some suggestions that your repuation matters, but I have a continental repuation and most of my club has me listed under favourite persons, but I still find it impossible to explain tough decisions to players in a way that makes them okay with it.

What's even more bizarre is when a player has played particularly well and you tell him so, he can actually get angry at you saying that you must have a different idea as to what constitutes a good performance (typically he will have played at 8+ and scored, it makes no difference).

Player interactions and press conferences are two areas where it is abundantly clear that I am playing a computer game as they ruin any immersion due to how daft and unpredictable the responses are.

I have this probelm too, many times, as well as teem meetings, i will say to them when we are going good, we've been doing well keep up the good work, and then a main player will tell me im being unreasonable and the team will be demotivated :S

I find personal chats a treacherous ordeal. I agree with the poster above that the amount of rudeness and lack of discipline by pretty much every player who has had a private chat with me is obscene. And that's not because I initiate the heated discussion. Most of my first comments are said with a calm tone, because I think that's how people should be spoken to. In pretty much every situation I get back-chatted to, looked down upon and left feeling like it was a complete waste of time, like dog muck upon their shoe. Needless to say most of the players who treat me badly, leave the club not long after.

And as Vilks mentioned above:

What's even more bizarre is when a player has played particularly well and you tell him so, he can actually get angry at you saying that you must have a different idea as to what constitutes a good performance

That is correct. Another example of trying to do something right, using the correct tone, and yet they respond badly to praise. It's happening to me on a consistent basis. At least in FM2011, players would actually accept praise, instead of being stuck up big heads.

I'm not sure whether I'm constructing private chats wrongly or anything, but they seem in the players favour at present. Either that or the footballing world is full of prima-dona's...oh hang on...

Inside he feels he can offer much more, doent feel past his peak or doesnt want to admit it.

You are also removing his livelihood, the one thing he knows how to do well and at a place he loves...

With all due respect....

Why do people keep responding to threads such as this with these sort of replies?

Are you seriously suggesting that the game is coded to make players think along these logical lines, like they genuinely have a thought process beyond the set of responses?

To me it just seems like a cop-out for something that is quite clearly poorly implemented, much like the entire interaction part of the game.

It's the same for the useless transfer system. You can't give away a world class player for free, then come on here to complain but are met with responses that seem to indicate a whole series of behind-the-scenes thinking on the AI's part is going on, when in reality it's simply not a good system and doesn't work.

So i have taken over a new club in the championship and theres is a player on 46.5k per week and way past his peak, therefore i transfer list him before he sucks the club dry, he complains i have a private chat and tell him we cant afford to keep him, he asks me if im trying to make things worse.... im actually trying to save the club from debt and alls he wants to do is put the club in debt depsite the fact hes told the fans hes being forced out of the club, surely if he cared about the club he would understand that we cnt afford to keep him on a wage like that....

Hes unwilling to accept mutual termination too.

Sounds about right to me. This happened to Derby after their disastrous Premier League season. So many terrible players ended up just being paid to leave including [but not limited to] Claude Davis and Roy Carroll.

With all due respect....

Why do people keep responding to threads such as this with these sort of replies?

Are you seriously suggesting that the game is coded to make players think along these logical lines, like they genuinely have a thought process beyond the set of responses?

To me it just seems like a cop-out for something that is quite clearly poorly implemented, much like the entire interaction part of the game.

It's the same for the useless transfer system. You can't give away a world class player for free, then come on here to complain but are met with responses that seem to indicate a whole series of behind-the-scenes thinking on the AI's part is going on, when in reality it's simply not a good system and doesn't work.

It's just giving you a reason why it isn't easy to do so. People on here rarely consider how huge the wages their giving out are some times.

As for this guy, why would he leave. He has a contract and a wage and he has every right to stay and pick up a wage. Quite frankly he probably doesn't care about what happens to the club long term, but he does care if he has to give up his huge wage. It would be far less realistic if he just went; "Oh yeah, that's chill, I'll give up the last 2 (or however long) years of my contract for you cause you're so nice. Who cares that this would be around £4.8 million over those 2 years, I just think the smile I'd see on your face is worth it!" Nah, that's far more realistic isn't it.

Another thing, people always complain: "I transfer listed my World Class player and nobody wants him!!!" There are a few questioned I'd ask:

1. If they're really World Class why do you want to get rid of them?

2. How much are they on?

3. Have they actually done anything to show they're world class in the last few years?

4. How old are they?

Why do I ask these questions? Because they've obvious reasons why teams wouldn't touch them!

1. If they really are so World Class someone would come after them, but I highly doubt you're transfer listing a 28 year old Ronaldo or Messi now are you?

2. If they're on north of £100k a week (£1.2 million a year) then there aren't too many clubs going around that could actually afford them. More importantly if you care so much to get them off your wage bill then there really shouldn't be a guarantee that someone else wants your reserves on their trumped up salary!

3. I always hear this with people mentioning that this player has been rotting in the reserves... Then I think to myself: "Would I go out of my way and spend good money for a player who hasn't played a professional match in half a year? Would I pay for a player who is nothing but a reserve for another club who are about the same level as me? Why do they want rid if he's so good?" Of course the answers here are no unless they are quite young, that is, as long as their wages aren't stupidly high.

4. Who wants a 31 year old injury prone has been who's on £200k a week? You don't of course, that's why you're selling them. Of course you don't want them to go that badly, or you'd offer them for free or maybe even release them.

That's strange, for the moment I managed to make the players hold their horses when talking to them. For example, I approached one of my defenders to teach a younger one, he said that they don't get along very well, I told him with an assertive tone to screw personal feelings and teach him for God's sake (Well, not with those words ), he accepted, talked to the other and accepted without objections.

I had only one case with a player wanting to play more often, I told him I'd loan him so he has more playing time and he replies saying he doesn't want a loan but to just go and things went on but no case, he mad

With all due respect....

Why do people keep responding to threads such as this with these sort of replies?

Are you seriously suggesting that the game is coded to make players think along these logical lines, like they genuinely have a thought process beyond the set of responses?

To me it just seems like a cop-out for something that is quite clearly poorly implemented.

I always try and play the game given to me, sometimes this means rationalising some situations. Yes things can be improved but when it comes down to it I have to play the game I have right now.

I have always seen it the same for a golf course, its not the courses fault I found it hard or found the most impossible place to attack a certain green from, the course is the same for everyone and is as hard as it is, I just have to find a way to beat it and enjoy the process of doing that.

It's just giving you a reason why it isn't easy to do so. People on here rarely consider how huge the wages their giving out are some times.

As for this guy, why would he leave. He has a contract and a wage and he has every right to stay and pick up a wage. Quite frankly he probably doesn't care about what happens to the club long term, but he does care if he has to give up his huge wage. It would be far less realistic if he just went; "Oh yeah, that's chill, I'll give up the last 2 (or however long) years of my contract for you cause you're so nice. Who cares that this would be around £4.8 million over those 2 years, I just think the smile I'd see on your face is worth it!" Nah, that's far more realistic isn't it.

Another thing, people always complain: "I transfer listed my World Class player and nobody wants him!!!" There are a few questioned I'd ask:

1. If they're really World Class why do you want to get rid of them?

2. How much are they on?

3. Have they actually done anything to show they're world class in the last few years?

4. How old are they?

Why do I ask these questions? Because they've obvious reasons why teams wouldn't touch them!

1. If they really are so World Class someone would come after them, but I highly doubt you're transfer listing a 28 year old Ronaldo or Messi now are you?

2. If they're on north of £100k a week (£1.2 million a year) then there aren't too many clubs going around that could actually afford them. More importantly if you care so much to get them off your wage bill then there really shouldn't be a guarantee that someone else wants your reserves on their trumped up salary!

3. I always hear this with people mentioning that this player has been rotting in the reserves... Then I think to myself: "Would I go out of my way and spend good money for a player who hasn't played a professional match in half a year? Would I pay for a player who is nothing but a reserve for another club who are about the same level as me? Why do they want rid if he's so good?" Of course the answers here are no unless they are quite young, that is, as long as their wages aren't stupidly high.

4. Who wants a 31 year old injury prone has been who's on £200k a week? You don't of course, that's why you're selling them. Of course you don't want them to go that badly, or you'd offer them for free or maybe even release them.

For the 15th time, i understand that might happen, but he is contradicting himself by saying he loves the club and fans and is being forced out when if he doesnt leave he will cause the club to go into financial crisis, if he just said he doesnt care about the club then fair enoug, but the conversations are not civilised enough, i wanted to explain we cant afford him, thats not alienating him, he doesnt have to leave it would help if he did, ovb he has the right to hus contract but hes contradicitng himself by saying he cares about the ckub, and im not alienating him, we simply cant afford him, which leads me to another thing:

Why is it that every club a takeover are in a financial mess, ot seems like no AI managers take finances into consideration when offering wages, i dont eve know how the teams i dont take over survive, there a clubs in the championship who where relegated 4 seasones ago with a 400k per week wage budget, how have they sirvived this long when theyre losing 2 million pound a month in the chmapionship??

And another thing, i told a player i would loan him out, he said ok, i offer him to loan he gets offes from to clubs in the same league tht i accpeted and he rejects them both, he calls that a broken promise.... :S