What am I doing wrong?

I would fill you in with a long back story but I'm too frustrated with this to bother.

When it gets to the big stage, i.e. CL finals/Cup finals my team who have gone the whole season unbeaten (conceding zero goals in the cup) suddenly go 2-0 down inside 10 minutes in the final, and no matter what I tried I couldn't claw anything back from the game.

All of a sudden the tactics and team talks I'd been using all season (started from scratch myself, nothing fancy) which had been working suddenly turned to nothing.

It has happened in a number of other finals so its not just one game.

So I ask, what is it that I'm doing wrong?

Why can't I win against opponents similar to my rep in big games?

I didn't want to come on here and call the game rubbish because I know its something that I'm not doing right.

Any thoughts please?

Thanks

P.S: I'm not new to FM but FM11 is the only one I've been reasonably persistent with, 2 seasons with Birmingham finishing 13th and then 10th, so you can see I'm not a mastermind at the game as when designing the tactics I'm still learning.

Players can struggle on the big stage. Where more pressure is on. Also what sort of teamtalks do you use. I used to always use one. But after reading threads on this forum and help from people. I've found that the one I was using wasn't the best. So I now use two or three possible options. Players also get used to teamtalks. If they start to get used to teamtalks it may not have the desired effect which is previously has done. So therefore changing your teamtalks occasionally can be better.

As for your tactics. The same thing can be said. With FM11, what I have found is that if you only have one tactic things can suddenly go wrong. It's happened with all my saves from Forest to Blackpool. I don't think the game learns them as such but other managers get to know the way you play and can set out to stop your ability to win. I now have two tactics where possible so that I can change when I start to have trouble.

Ok, thanks. I think I've heard about a thread somewhere on here about team talks, I'll go digging for it!

The tactics tip is helpful, cheers. It's just frustrating to get so far and then just capitulate in the final!

By the way you describe it I was wondering if you were Arsenal for a minute there

Hahahah! Almost! I was Barca, quit after only winning the league. Ironically, Arsenal just offered me their job as Wenger took Barca!

When I'm managing a big successful club the only team-talk I use in cup-finals, regardless of stature, is "I expect the trophy!"

anything else is useless, fire the players up and they'll come out firing (but I think it's the AI that did that... 2 goals in how long?)

My squad tend to respond fairly well to "No Pressure" or something along that line, especially after a few defeats. It's like when a striker is on a scoring drought, it turns into a mental block as much as anything. You've just got to grin and bear it until you can make the breakthrough.

I lost 4 FA Cup finals in 6 seasons. Painful, every one of them. When I finally got 5th time lucky, I won it two years on the trot. It seems a mental thing to instill that winning mentality in your players without forcing them to choke.

My squad tend to respond fairly well to "No Pressure" or something along that line,

Yeah.. it seems to be the mantra in this game..to keep the lads happy by not expecting too much.

Apart from that the effect of team talks is so inconsistent in impact. The whole shebang has as much cred as a prayer wheel as far as I'm concerned.

I'm going giddy having to replay fixtures to get the players to perform to the level I feel is appropriate, considering the opposition, recent form etc.

Often though I give up, and on match day just take the day off, and check the result when I come back.

Pretty much always..my team plays so much better !

Another thing..I find if my team is playing well, get a good start, a great goal etc. later in the same match I'll lose a key player with a long term injury, or a red card.

I mean..what's that ?? An attempt to keep "balance"in the game or somesuch ?

Sheesh !

FM2011 is a disaster, compared to FM2010..and should be patched to to the rafters.

Or you could try being a good manager...

Or you could try being a good manager...

Oh come on !

It makes not a jot of difference. Everything is so random it's an insult to gamers. That's why I invoked the "prayer wheel" analogue.

FM2011 really does feel like a naive reboot. After FM2010 I was so looking forward to more progress, but it's gone back by 2 or 3 years with the old vicious AI.

In general, if you stop treating team talks as something to be solved with a set formula, things will improve.

Thanks for all your help, I'm going to try and mix up team talks and tactics more often now! I took the Le Arse job and hopefully I can win a trophy for them!

Without wanting to affect the thread. I'm sure the OP didn't want his thread to be starting to critiscise the game. So personally I wouldn't post unless you have any advice for the OP.

Without wanting to affect the thread. I'm sure the OP didn't want his thread to be starting to critiscise the game. So personally I wouldn't post unless you have any advice for the OP.

Agreed but I ignored that and stuck to the positives!

My squad tend to respond fairly well to "No Pressure" or something along that line, especially after a few defeats. It's like when a striker is on a scoring drought, it turns into a mental block as much as anything. You've just got to grin and bear it until you can make the breakthrough.

I lost 4 FA Cup finals in 6 seasons. Painful, every one of them. When I finally got 5th time lucky, I won it two years on the trot. It seems a mental thing to instill that winning mentality in your players without forcing them to choke.

I managed Aberdeen for 8 seasons in FM08, must have plaued the old firm about 30 times and only won like 5 of those games. I made multiple semi finals and quite a few finals (the majority of the times these games were against Rangers or Celtic) and we pretty much just coked every single time. Finally won the league in seasons 7 & 8 and moved to Arsenal. (LOl)

Finally won the league in seasons 7 & 8 and moved to Arsenal. (LOl)

I've just moved to Le Arse too, not the team you want to go to when you can't win any cups eh?

You are not me. Thats what you are doing wrong. Some people have it and some don't.

You need to be special in this game. I am special. Very special

stroke it, don't pull it

thank me later

Without wanting to affect the thread. I'm sure the OP didn't want his thread to be starting to criticise the game. So personally I wouldn't post unless you have any advice for the OP.

I'm afraid that the troubles one has with management in this iteration of our beloved pastime have everything to do with issues which warrant criticism. There's no way you can void this.

The problems are a result of changes which make it harder to play (oppressive even), and a frustrating experience, especially if, in comparison, we enjoyed FM2010, which was the best.

Check these issues..all symptomatic of an over reactive AI, ..Referees, injuries, low, or sometimes no, response to in-match instructions,

matchday team talks which vary in meaning,..etc. And don't get me started on press conferences.

Let's face it such things bear the resemblance of a lottery, in how to choose the appropriate answers.

(Did we really need this stuff in this sort of game ?..it's a drag..)

See ? No matter how one approaches this game this is what we have to deal with, and needs fixing.

By the way..what's the OP ?

The team talks and your tactics could be the problem, as has been said above.

It could also be some hidden stats and the Determination stat that makes you lose the important games:

Big matches is a hidden attribute, your assistant notes if a player either relishes or enjoys the big matches. If he doesn't, the attribute may be low causing your players to underperform in the most important games.

Pressure is also a hidden attribute that could be the cause of this. Naturally, the pressure is higher in a Champions League final in front of 40 000 fans than in a League Cup 3rd round against Wocklesbury in front of 1400. The assistant does not mention anything about this attribute, but you can tell if your players become nervous when you expect things of them.

Determination is a key attribute for many things in FM. In this case it is most relevant in relation to it being instrumental in motivating your players extra when they go under a goal or two. If the Determination attribute is lower than 14, the player may react badly to going a goal down and the attribute is often indicative of strong hidden attributes like those two above.

In addition, I have found that very often, low Current Ability compared to your opposition may be a big problem in some matches - especially cup finals, playoffs and other important matches (like rivals and against the leading teams of the division). Throughout the season, your 2-star or average-ability players can do quite well and you see no difference between your Leading Premier Division striker and your Decent Premier Division striker - both scoring perhaps equally many goals and the same average rating. However, when it really matters, I often experience that I have to rely on the star striker of the two, as the lower CA fellow suddenly plays badly. I believe that in such matches low CA players have a greater chance of "falling through" - their faults and weaknesses finally shows.

Since you play Birmingham in the second season, it is possible that all four things I have mentioned here played into the bad result and performance.

A vote of thanks to Biggusd (really ?) for a very interesting assessment of things in this game.

I've moved through these games, since CM04, without changing my ways of management much. In this one though I've hit the brick wall.

Why that should be so bemuses and frustrates me.

But the issues you raise have intrigued me and I'm grateful for it.

Thanks sunshine !

FYI - OP is Original Poster (the person that started the thread)

Hope it works out for you, FM11 is so much better 10 in my opinion. Philbaby hit the nail on the head when he posted "I've moved through these games, since CM04, without changing my ways of management much." FM was getting boring as you could play the same tactics etc year after year and win everyting with anyone. FM11 has changed everything and has made people learn the game again, really think about what they are doing as opposed to just clicking a tactic and pressing play. You need to see how the other teams play and where their goals come from to see how you need to prepare and set up your tactics.

Unfortunately this leads to alot of people saying that the game is broken etc cause they dont win like they have been used to.

Best of luck OP, let us know if you get on

FYI - OP is Original Poster (the person that started the thread)

FM was getting boring as you could play the same tactics etc year after year and win everyting with anyone. FM11 has changed everything and has made people learn the game again, really think about what they are doing as opposed to just clicking a tactic and pressing play. You need to see how the other teams play and where their goals come from to see how you need to prepare and set up your tactics.

Hmm..Okay..can't argue with that too much..

I was happy enough with the way things were, with incremental changes to tactics or graphic upgrades. However with FM2011 I suddenly feel.. marginalised, even.

Perhaps if we'd been warned or something of the changes that matter, ie, how our ways of playing might be affected, it might have helped.

Usually, when the season fixtures start, I often findthat a grind. I always prefer the preseason, with changing players/staff, and trying out my new team in friendlies. Somehow that's fresher.

As it is I rarely play more than 2 seasons with a club. For that sense of renewal I start up with another club, usually in another country, to see how that goes. Never a top club either, usually a club down a couple of levels, although now, in this version, there's no transfer budget available. That can be fixed by judicious use of the editor however.

Thanks aussieant !