FM with Turkish language (worst scenario)

SI, can't you imagine what kind of huge market Turkey is ?!

A population of about 80m, of which more than 70% are younger than 40...

You really must have no brains at all to avoid the Turkish market nowadays...

even if 50% of the market uses pirated versions... you will still sell more than 1m of copies each year (and this is the worst scenario...)

calculation:

1. population (lets say 70m, which really is 80m today, but we are talking about the worst scenario...)

2. men vs women ratio is about 50% = 35m of men

3. more than 70% are younger than 40 = around 24m

4. eliminate 50% of it (little kids) = we still have a potential market of 12m

5. lets say the half of them aren't interested in football/games : we now have 6m remaining...

6. lets now say that 50% of them know how to download pirated games: still 3m of potential customers remaining...

--> do you still think your game will sell more in countries like e.g. Belgium, Holland than it would in Turkey ?!... you must be joking...

I have forgotten to mention the about 10m of Turkish people living in Europe...

Not this again...

You forgot to mention how many of those three million potential customers can speak english and buy the game anyway. I think its a bit too late to make an impassioned plea to have FM11 brought out in Turkish anyway.

I'm not asking anything, just making clear that Turkey is one of the largest markets in Europe

pirated rate in turkey is far worst than 50%.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/10/report-41-percent-of-personal-computing-software-is-pirated/

and not every football fan will be interested in management games.

and not every one will choose FM out of these management games available.

I'm not asking anything, just making clear that Turkey is one of the largest markets in Europe

I'm pretty sure SI already know that.

SI, can't you imagine what kind of huge market Turkey is ?!

A population of about 80m, of which more than 70% are younger than 40...

You really must have no brains at all to avoid the Turkish market nowadays...

even if 50% of the market uses pirated versions... you will still sell more than 1m of copies each year (and this is the worst scenario...)

calculation:

1. population (lets say 70m, which really is 80m today, but we are talking about the worst scenario...)

2. men vs women ratio is about 50% = 35m of men

3. more than 70% are younger than 40 = around 24m

4. eliminate 50% of it (little kids) = we still have a potential market of 12m

5. lets say the half of them aren't interested in football/games : we now have 6m remaining...

6. lets now say that 50% of them know how to download pirated games: still 3m of potential customers remaining...

--> do you still think your game will sell more in countries like e.g. Belgium, Holland than it would in Turkey ?!... you must be joking...

As the SI line is that even in the current situation, with the default game available, the piracy level is too high, and therefore they feel it is not financially viable to produce an official Turkish language version. And considering that EA has only sold 9.7m copies to March across all platforms, quoting 3m potential new customers is crazy.

SI could release a steam only version ? I don't know if this would prevent from any pirating ? Anyway Turkey football fans are a big market since we can see their league and teams in European cups are getting better. I think it would just be fair. Also, I am sure they would be more willing to pay for a game that they can understand 100% and showing some local effort to them.

Anyway Turkey football fans are a big market since we can see their teams in European cups are getting better

Lol really? I remember they used to be seen as fairly tricky opponents in Europe. Don't hear much about them anymore.

Although kudos to the steam idea.

pirated rate in turkey is far worst than 50%.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/10/report-41-percent-of-personal-computing-software-is-pirated/

and not every football fan will be interested in management games.

and not every one will choose FM out of these management games available.

I would take any graph produced by the BSA and Microsoft with a ton of salt. They want to make the problem seem as bad as possible, so they can get governments to spend money on it rather than themselves.

I would take any graph produced by the BSA and Microsoft with a ton of salt. They want to make the problem seem as bad as possible, so they can get governments to spend money on it rather than themselves.

The independent game World of Goo has a piracy rate of about 90% on PC.

http://2dboy.com/2008/11/13/90/

And their test on a "pay what you want" scheme:

http://2dboy.com/2009/10/19/birthday-sale-results/

Basically when given the chance 30% of people bought the game for $0.01 and only 30% of all people pay more than $2.

The independent game World of Goo has a piracy rate of about 90% on PC.

http://2dboy.com/2008/11/13/90/

And their test on a "pay what you want" scheme:

http://2dboy.com/2009/10/19/birthday-sale-results/

Basically when given the chance 30% of people bought the game for $0.01 and only 30% of all people pay more than $2.

Didn't check your link but I don't see the problem ? 30% of people like wasting money ?

Didn't check your link but I don't see the problem ? 30% of people like wasting money ?

That's not wasting money, that's showing the general greed and ungratefulness of the common gamer. They are basically giving you a product, which they've spent a LOT of time on, and you then decide to pay less than $2? Some even paying $0.01.

If anything, you should support developers who trust their user-base like this. I personally can't see how people can pay so little.

@BaYa: We have talked this issue a lot here: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/221875-Please-help-Do-you-have-Turkish-language

We are right, SI are right; so there seems no possible way to solve this issue. SI are right about piracy, we are right about how piracy will go down but no one is trying to take the first step. And the more we insist the more they hate us and this issue.

We have to wait whether 10k buyers or SI take a step. Even we cannot reach 10k, SI will be Turkish in 2 or 3 years anyway. Because Turkish language has entered a lot of games and soon every game will have

That's not wasting money, that's showing the general greed and ungratefulness of the common gamer. They are basically giving you a product, which they've spent a LOT of time on, and you then decide to pay less than $2? Some even paying $0.01.

If anything, you should support developers who trust their user-base like this. I personally can't see how people can pay so little.

That is easy to say from the 5th country by GDP per capita. That is why OP's worst scenario is wrong - Turkey is big, but its people aren't wealthy enough, hence the high piracy rate. No offence, I'm your equally poor neighbour.

@BaYa: We have talked this issue a lot here: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/221875-Please-help-Do-you-have-Turkish-language

We are right, SI are right; so there seems no possible way to solve this issue. SI are right about piracy, we are right about how piracy will go down but no one is trying to take the first step. And the more we insist the more they hate us and this issue.

We have to wait whether 10k buyers or SI take a step. Even we cannot reach 10k, SI will be Turkish in 2 or 3 years anyway. Because Turkish language has entered a lot of games and soon every game will have

Could you provide examples of games that have included Turkish, their sales before the Turkish language was implemented and after it was put in?

SI, can't you imagine what kind of huge market Turkey is ?!

A population of about 80m, of which more than 70% are younger than 40...

You really must have no brains at all to avoid the Turkish market nowadays...

even if 50% of the market uses pirated versions... you will still sell more than 1m of copies each year (and this is the worst scenario...)

calculation:

1. population (lets say 70m, which really is 80m today, but we are talking about the worst scenario...)

2. men vs women ratio is about 50% = 35m of men

3. more than 70% are younger than 40 = around 24m

4. eliminate 50% of it (little kids) = we still have a potential market of 12m

5. lets say the half of them aren't interested in football/games : we now have 6m remaining...

6. lets now say that 50% of them know how to download pirated games: still 3m of potential customers remaining...

--> do you still think your game will sell more in countries like e.g. Belgium, Holland than it would in Turkey ?!... you must be joking...

Using population to justify anything is ridiculously flawed - look at what is happening in China!

As I said before, it costs X to create a Turkish language pack and release it with the game, and clearly SI don't feel that the potential sales gained by having the Turkish language (call this Y) are enough to counterbalance X: X>Y

Since software has very little afteruse (i.e. a song can be released on an album, rereleased in a compilation, licensed in a video game or film, etc.), software companies have no choice but to be more cut-throat when it comes to software, more so with a small company like SI. Everything costs money!

Talking about potential customers therefore really makes no sense. SI should of course look to tap the Turkish market but it costs money and if it's not going to pay off, what's the point?

Could you provide examples of games that have included Turkish, their sales before the Turkish language was implemented and after it was put in?

Although it is a bit extreme example Championship manager did this, but I can give clear examples after Gran Turismo 5, Kill Zone 3 and expecially Pro Evolution Soccer 2011. There are hundreds who tell they can only afford to buy a legal copy if the game includes Turkish language itself.

I can give clear examples after Gran Turismo 5, Kill Zone 3 and expecially Pro Evolution Soccer 2011.

Go on then, give some examples of how sales increased, people saying they would buy a turkish game isn't proof.

Go on then, give some examples of how sales increased, people saying they would buy a turkish game isn't proof.

How can I know how many copies Championship Manager sold? The companies do not give numbers as Sigames.

Still it is obvious that Championship Manager is sold a lot, because even in the first day of release, stores could not match the demands and they had to order more copies.

I know people's worlds are not reliable source but even the quarter of them buy the game still it will duplicate the sales at least.

I do not want to insist too much more but just want to show the point you defend is wrong.

Using population to justify anything is ridiculously flawed - look at what is happening in China!

As I said before, it costs X to create a Turkish language pack and release it with the game, and clearly SI don't feel that the potential sales gained by having the Turkish language (call this Y) are enough to counterbalance X: X>Y

Since software has very little afteruse (i.e. a song can be released on an album, rereleased in a compilation, licensed in a video game or film, etc.), software companies have no choice but to be more cut-throat when it comes to software, more so with a small company like SI. Everything costs money!

Talking about potential customers therefore really makes no sense. SI should of course look to tap the Turkish market but it costs money and if it's not going to pay off, what's the point?

A language is made for one FM and then is used for every next FM's. I think cost is definitely not a problem. It looks like FM sanction the Turkish fans.

Also, if SI choose not to release the Turkish language due to pirating issues, why do they release the game in Turkey at all ? Either put the Turkish language, or don't release the game there. I don't think the point otherwise.

The point is that including the language won't make a difference in sales. The people who buy computer games in developing economies are the ones with higher income, due to education, which means they know English.

And SI is a developer, not a publisher/distributor/retailer.

The point is that including the language won't make a difference in sales. The people who buy computer games in developing economies are the ones with higher income, due to education, which means they know English.

And SI is a developer, not a publisher/distributor/retailer.

If so, why Sony has started a huge investment on this? Why Pro Evolution Soccer 2011 will be Turkish? And there are less people complaining about the language issue in Pro Evolution Soccer then Football Manager.

If there are so many Turkish fans, there sure will be a Turkish fansite that will bring out a turkish language pack? I mean there is even one for German and the game isn't even in stores here.

A language is made for one FM and then is used for every next FM's. I think cost is definitely not a problem. It looks like FM sanction the Turkish fans.

Er, no. It costs money to add the language in (programming time), requires maintenance of the files and requires someone to update them whenever there's an error. SI may need to hire a Turkish speaker to maintain it. It also adds to the file size on the disc which will increase writing times (and over millions of copies, it will matter). More things will go wrong if something is added - for example, if Turkish has any weird grammar structures, SI may need to recode some of their strings.

Cost is, quite frankly, an issue.

Also, if SI choose not to release the Turkish language due to pirating issues, why do they release the game in Turkey at all ? Either put the Turkish language, or don't release the game there. I don't think the point otherwise.

Well, if you don't release the game in Turkey, then more people will end up pirating it anyway...

They sell to Turkey because clearly, SI get a decent deal there. Maybe the distributors there are happy to pay SI a large amount to sell there. It's just that it seems that adding Turkish to the game isn't worth the cost.

If so, why Sony has started a huge investment on this? Why Pro Evolution Soccer 2011 will be Turkish? And there are less people complaining about the language issue in Pro Evolution Soccer then Football Manager.

Konami and Sony are much larger companies than SI. Small losses are less of an issue to them. They can afford the piracy hit - they release there in the hope that some will be persuaded to go legal. However, they can absorb the losses a lot better.

In addition, PES is much more popular than Football Manager and will sell more copies.

I do not compare Konami or Sony with Sigames. I gave an example on the investments. You just take my words in the way you want.

I understand the concerns of Sigames but just telling the point you (or si) defend is not right at all. You have nothing to prove that Turkish language will not affect the sales positively. I do not have much either.

@Koki: There is one and I'm in the translation team. This issue became so much problem because SI have plans about adding Turkish language to the game, they have announced that they are looking for people for this. And also they have promise if we sell 10,000 copies then Turkish will be available in the game. I encourage people to buy the legal copy of the game but the main idea is that "If they add Turkish, I will buy; otherwise why should I buy?". Average people can afford 1 games per year in Turkey. They use their choice for other games like PES and FIFA. So they search for a special thing in the other games which will make them to buy. The only thing that Football Manager can make itself puchasable is to adding Turkish language.

I hope I can tell my opinions clearly. I do not want to be misunderstood. I can play the game in English for 10 years and I am not complaining so much, I am just telling the other people's thoughts.

if we sell 10,000 copies then Turkish will be available in the game

There you go then. If that happens you get Turkish. SI have laid down that condition, so it doesn't matter how many complaint threads there are, unless they sell 10,000, they won't release the game in Turkish. Simples.

There you go then. If that happens you get Turkish. SI have laid down that condition, so it doesn't matter how many complaint threads there are, unless they sell 10,000, they won't release the game in Turkish. Simples.

Are you really reading my posts? I was telling the difficulty of reaching 10,000 with reasons. Of course I want 10,000 also but it is nearly impossible.

Well thats too bad isn't it. Yes I am reading your posts, and I'm saying until SI sell 10,000 copies, then the game won't be released with the Turkish language. End of story.

SI, can't you imagine what kind of huge market Turkey is ?!

A population of about 80m, of which more than 70% are younger than 40...

What? That's not right.

As of the 2009 census there were around 73m inhabitants, of which around 66% were between the ages of 15 and 64, not under 40. Your figures are completely skewed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Turkey

Well thats too bad isn't it. Yes I am reading your posts, and I'm saying until SI sell 10,000 copies, then the game won't be released with the Turkish language. End of story.

Calm down kid. We all figuered it out that you don't like Turkey or Turkish. It's okay, we understand, just calm down...