League Editor: Any Thoughts On Scottish League System

If I've put this in the wrong place I apologise.

Basically I'm looking for some advice form fellow Scottish FM players/Scottish football enthusiasts/those good at geography. I'm excited about the league editor with FM and having pre-ordered the game I'm planning to scrap the current Scottish league system and hope to replace it with an 18 team Scottish First Division and an 18 team Scottish Second Division, with a non-league regional setup similar to the continent (and the Blue Square Conference).

Obviously I have no idea if the regional system will work in terms of promotion and relegation until I try it, but...is there anybody else who has thought of this and has an idea of the best way to impliment it? I'm not particularly great at geography and the only way I can think to try to do it would be to duplicate the Highland Leagues and some of the junior leagues and dump some of the Second/Third Division teams in the closest fit.

If I've put this in the wrong place I apologise.

Basically I'm looking for some advice form fellow Scottish FM players/Scottish football enthusiasts/those good at geography. I'm excited about the league editor with FM and having pre-ordered the game I'm planning to scrap the current Scottish league system and hope to replace it with an 18 team Scottish First Division and an 18 team Scottish Second Division, with a non-league regional setup similar to the continent (and the Blue Square Conference).

Obviously I have no idea if the regional system will work in terms of promotion and relegation until I try it, but...is there anybody else who has thought of this and has an idea of the best way to impliment it? I'm not particularly great at geography and the only way I can think to try to do it would be to duplicate the Highland Leagues and some of the junior leagues and dump some of the Second/Third Division teams in the closest fit.

Sounds a pretty good idea - in fact it's exactly what I'm planning on doing. Regionally, you could have a pretty good breakdown using the Highland League, South of Scotland League, etc. Using an 18 team basis for the two top tiers will make it fairly easy to place the excess from the original Third Division in the new regional set up.

Personally, I would go for 16 teams in each league as it makes it a wee bit more interesting. I'm planning on 16 team, bottom 2 teams relegated and a playoff for the third relegation place spot.

Best way to do it if workable is draw a line across from the Firth of Tay in the East to the West Coast. Any club North of that line is Northern. I would then draw line from the border of West Lothian and Lanarkshire (just west of Fauldhouse - even use Harthill) connecting the line you have between the Tay to the Border. Anything on the East side is East, anything on the West side is West.

I doubt it will be that complex though...

will you be using both the Highland League, South of Scotland League, etc and junior leagues in the new system.??

I'm thinking of merging the top 4 leagues into two 20 team leagues (minus 2 teams from the 3rd division) and then perhaps another couple of leagues with the best of the non league sides. I really don't know much about the lower tiers other than the Highland league though, so I'm not too sure on what to do below that yet. Perhaps some sort of playoff between the winners of the leagues below to play for a single promotion place to the 2nd tier if that is even possible with the editor.

I too am doing a Scottish revamp, I have the Premier League with 18 teams (2 relagated) Div 1 with 22 teams (2 Promoted & 3 relagated), Div 2 with 22 teams (3 Promoted and 1 relagated) then a pyramid system for the non league teams rather like the english league.

Its interesting, revamping the scottish league has been mentioned in many threads before, perhaps the SFA should sit up and take note.

SFA are powerless to do anything to be honest. The SFL are the ones that need to take note. But they won't. Although it is not helped that the Junior League Teams mainly have no willingness to join the SFA (which is required to be part of the SFL).

SFA are powerless to do anything to be honest. The SFL are the ones that need to take note. But they won't. Although it is not helped that the Junior League Teams mainly have no willingness to join the SFA (which is required to be part of the SFL).

Well said, here, here! Now, where do I find the correct form for nominating you for next president of the SFL?

On a more genuine note, is it not slightly ironic that people will probably come up with a better, more workable, more competitive system that is more practical and entertaining than those in power in Scottish football ever will?

The latest blog features an interview with SI's chief Scottish non-league researcher, who's already nearly completed his edited league system. He's posting in the Editors' forum too.

Seems good, come post it in the editors hideaway we don't bite, honest. Also are you going to put Celtic and Rangers in the English leagues?

Thanks very much for the replies. Some of the advice given here is exactly what I was looking for.

I don't know about anyone else but personally I intend to keep Rangers and Celtic in the SPL. I'd also intend to raise the league standards slightly to stop some of the better players in the SPL sides outwith the Old Firm joining League One sides, and maybe raise the reputation of most Scottish sides. Not drastically mind, but a little.

Toying with the idea of an inter-nations cup involving Scotland and England, though I'm not sure.

Bring back the Texaco Cup!

is that not cricket?

On a more genuine note, is it not slightly ironic that people will probably come up with a better, more workable, more competitive system that is more practical and entertaining than those in power in Scottish football ever will?

is that not cricket?

This one... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texaco_Cup

Sounds a great idea to me, the only problem would come when relegating teams from the second division. If three teams from round Glasgow were to go down which one would be put up to the Highland league? I'm sure a way could be worked out though.

That's what I'm unsure of, carln1000. I'm not sure how it works in the Conference in England either. I don't know if the game would just bump a West of Scotland team into the Highland League to make up the numbers, or if it would run uneven leagues, or...crash. :S

Sounds a great idea to me, the only problem would come when relegating teams from the second division. If three teams from round Glasgow were to go down which one would be put up to the Highland league? I'm sure a way could be worked out though.

Perhaps none of them. If a team in another of the feeder leagues was more northern, then they would go to that league instead. Sometimes we see similar happening now with the BS North and South. Teams get switched between leagues because of their geographical appropriateness to one of the divisions compared to one of the relegated clubs.

Edit: On a related note, I don't actually know if FM addresses the geographical relevance of clubs to particular divisions anyway. Can't say I've paid much attention in FM09. I know the game used to just bung clubs anywhere so the BS N/S ended up looking strange, but don't know if it's fixed.

I'm planning to restructure the Scottish League in a similar way to yourself.

20 team Division One - Current SPL and top eight First Division

Play each team twice.

3 Foreigner rule.

Squad size of 24, maximum 7 foreigners registered.

3 teams relegated

22 team Division Two - Bottom 2 First Division and remaining 20 Division Two and Three teams

Play each team twice

3 foreigner rule.

Squad size of 24, maximum 7 foreigners registered.

2 teams automatically promoted

3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th teams in playoff for last promotion spot.

4 teams relegated.

4*14 team leagues, north, south, east, west

Play each twice. top from each league relegated

Pyramid system beyond that.

Scottish Cup, all Junior and senior teams involved

Straight knock out, replay, et and penalties if required

League Cup

4 new teams play-off in qualification round, winners enter group stage.

8 groups of 5, teams play 2 home games and 2 away a-la-uefa cup last year.

top 2 teams qualify for last 16

2 legged knock out until final.

Final game, one off game, extra time, penalties.

3 foreigner rule.

24 players registered.

Think the geographical thing would make it messed up after a while, but still think the system would be more interesting, allow for more youth development and more exciting competitions.

I doubt they will to be honest. It's only workable on FM because you don't need any agreement from anyone - just make the changes and away you go. As well as that some of the proposals I've seen on here are really daft. The SPL with 18 teams so there's a huge amount of meaningless games come January - no thanks!

And you don't think that playing each other up to 4 times a year in the league is at all repetitive? Players in the SPL must be sick of the sight of each other.:confused:

does anyone think or know if it would be possible to create a kind of english-scottish cup?

examples scrapping both scottish and english league cups and adding a new cup between the 2 countries

or would this create problems within both leagues fixtures?

does anyone think or know if it would be possible to create a kind of english-scottish cup?

examples scrapping both scottish and english league cups and adding a new cup between the 2 countries

or would this create problems within both leagues fixtures?

I'm pretty sure that it was mentioned in the blog that cross-national cups could be created, so in theory a Scottish-English league cup should be able to be made.

I'm pretty sure that it was mentioned in the blog that cross-national cups could be created, so in theory a Scottish-English league cup should be able to be made.

Yeah, it'll be possible

The FIRST thing in editor I do is scrap the Scottish league system and rebuild it from top down.

I dont think that Scotland is strong enough to have a system which would allow a gateway between pro/semi-pro leagues so its full time pro or you're not in.

12/10 teams leagues arent competitive enough, and as there are 42 teams thats enough for 3 18 team divisions with the bottom being a developement/feeder league with new clubs. Plus some clubs will merge to make bigger clubs to go in the top 2 divisions.

I have loads of ideas bouncing around up-stairs so cant wait to play the game, just know that the league will be set-up to improve the national side, it might even be a joint league with Wales & Ireland in aswell...

I'm going to gatecrash this thread a little as it has got me quite inspired and excited for the new game!!!!

I haven't been on the forums at all since FM 2009 came out as the crushing negativity became boring but have

just finished reading the blogs on the mirror website and was particularly excited by the editor and particularly

the possibilities for the scottish leagues.

There was a couple of interviews with testers who had made changes to the scottish league system and stumbling across

this thread has really got loads of ideas floating around.

I agree with joey6 and I don't think Scottish football can sustain a gateway between junior and pro football and I'm not

particularly inspired by non-league football.

I really believe Scotland should have a top tier that has the support to be able to produce a good standard of footballer for the national team with the odd star

aswell as many teams as possible progressing in europe.

ie. our champions should always be guaranteed to start the CL in the group stages

runners up being in with a realistic chance of qualifying

and as many teams as possible in the europa group satges and being in with a shout of progressing

This means a good standard of all SPL teams and leagues below with players who can step up and provide a good learning ground for young players from the

SPL through feeder clubs and loans.

Therefore I'm thinking

SFL Div 1

league of 20

SPL teams from 08/09 season + St. johnstone, partick thistle, dunfermline, dundee, QoS, Greenock morton, ross county, airdrie

no split

play each team home and away

3 relegated

max squad 24

I'm toying with the different options for no. of homegrown players but i'm not comfortable with a cap on foreigners.

SFL Div 2

league of 22

play each other home and away

clyde, raith, ayr, brechin, peterhead, stirling, east fife, arbroath, alloa, queens park,stranraer

+ div 3 teams from 08/09 + livingston.

2 promoted automatically

playoff between 3,4,5,6 for 3rd spot

I have never had the know how or bravery to play with the editor. i will get involved on the new game but

it sounds like I will be able to get an "off the shelf" version and take advantage of someone else's hard work too

this post has been a bit rambling but this thread really got me thinking of ways of making scottish football as strong as possible

I'm going to try to incorporate my plan for how the non-league should link to the SFL if it were to stay in its current format irl. If possible (though they should really adopt this irl), I'll have it so the winners of the Highland League, East of Scotland League and South of Scotland League go into a play-off with the last placed team in the SFL and the winner gets into the Scottish Third Division the next season.

I've thought up a new structure now, involving England and Scotland with a simplified way of constructing a pyramid - no regionals until level 8. Going by club reputations this fits pretty well:

Level 1 EPL

Level 2 Championship

Level 3 SPL/SFL Div 1

Level 4 League One

Level 5 League Two

Level 6 SFL Divs 2/3

Level 7 BSP

Level 8 (A) BSS BSN (B) Scottish Juniors (highest rep) © Highland

Level 9 (A) Nthn Prem Prem, Sthn Prem, Isthmian Prem

(B) East Scot Prem/Div 1, South Scot + some Juniors, more Juniors

© Caledonian + other amateur Scottish

Level 10 (A) 3 English divisions below L9 (selected on basis of names and familiarity to me)

(B) 3 divisions of Scottish Juniors (inc. few from Rothesay’s league)

© this is my pride - real teams not in the database which I shall create, and where I start:

3 divisions of amateur Scottish sides from the Highlands and Islands, such as from Skye and Caithness.

So all English and Scottish teams begin in separate divisions, but with 4 promoted and relegated from each division (and 8 relegations from BSP as lowest non-regional division), we should see a fair amount of mixing soon enough (with Rangers and Celtic bombing up the ladder). Meanwhile, will I ever break free of the Hi'lands and do a Bonnie Prince Charlie??

I've thought up a new structure now, involving England and Scotland with a simplified way of constructing a pyramid - no regionals until level 8. Going by club reputations this fits pretty well:

Level 1 EPL

Level 2 Championship

Level 3 SPL/SFL Div 1

Level 4 League One

Level 5 League Two

Level 6 SFL Divs 2/3

Level 7 BSP

Level 8 (A) BSS BSN (B) Scottish Juniors (highest rep) © Highland

Level 9 (A) Nthn Prem Prem, Sthn Prem, Isthmian Prem

(B) East Scot Prem/Div 1, South Scot + some Juniors, more Juniors

© Caledonian + other amateur Scottish

Level 10 (A) 3 English divisions below L9 (selected on basis of names and familiarity to me)

(B) 3 divisions of Scottish Juniors (inc. few from Rothesay’s league)

© this is my pride - real teams not in the database which I shall create, and where I start:

3 divisions of amateur Scottish sides from the Highlands and Islands, such as from Skye and Caithness.

So all English and Scottish teams begin in separate divisions, but with 4 promoted and relegated from each division (and 8 relegations from BSP as lowest non-regional division), we should see a fair amount of mixing soon enough (with Rangers and Celtic bombing up the ladder). Meanwhile, will I ever break free of the Hi'lands and do a Bonnie Prince Charlie??

i think this is a good idea, hope it goes well

i think i am planning re creating the whole of the scottish set up aswell. not sure how i am going to go about it, but just know that Tain thistle will be in it somewhere, as this is the team i play for, and the only team outside of the 3rd division to have Real Players ( or so i think, as i dont recognize any other players in the game from lower tiered scottish clubs )

i think i am planning re creating the whole of the scottish set up aswell. not sure how i am going to go about it, but just know that Tain thistle will be in it somewhere, as this is the team i play for, and the only team outside of the 3rd division to have Real Players ( or so i think, as i dont recognize any other players in the game from lower tiered scottish clubs )

Dude, really

You'll be in my game for sure. Please let me know who you are. And hey, do you agree with Niall's ratings for you?

I'm assuming Niall and the Scottish non-league researcher are working hard to include many more real players, at least from the Highland league. I've got lots of data off the internet to add real names - no idea re. ratings of course. I'm dead excited!!

That's what I'm unsure of, carln1000. I'm not sure how it works in the Conference in England either. I don't know if the game would just bump a West of Scotland team into the Highland League to make up the numbers, or if it would run uneven leagues, or...crash. :S

if all the relegated teams from the conference in England were from London then the teams closest to the North in the existing South league would be bumped into the North league, and the London teams would all go into the South division. IIRC.

What about all the Junior clubs

I think this is how I'm going to go about it...

Pro

Scottish Super League - 18 teams - 2 down - Champions (Premiers) are winners of top 8 play-offs, team that finish top of the league are Minor Premiers.

Scottish National League One - 20 teams - 2 up 2 down

Scottish National League Two - 20 teams - 2 up - none down.

League Restrictions;

- Salary Cap - 50% of income upto a total to be decided later

- Quota & Squad Size - minimum of 25 players to start each season, atleast 8 must have been trained in Scotland, 4 from the clubs academy.

---------------------------------------

Semi-Pro

Scottish Premiership - 20 teams - None up, 3 down

Scottish Regional Leagues (3) - 10 teams, 1 up from each. None down.

---------------------------------------

Junior

Scottish U21 Championship;

- Division A

- Division B

- Division C

- Division D

- Division E

Every Pro & Semi-Pro team has their U21's and they are split into equal leagues.

I feel a change from U18's to U21's would benefit the Scottish football league because of the extra time to develop in academy football.