help me win in the league for the first time in 5 different saves with argyle

[green and white barmy army]

Things are so bad that I have yet to complete 1 whole season as have not won a single league game. I've started 5 saves with Plymouth and they've all ended with me being sacked with out winning 1 league game, I'm starting to find this game virtually unplayable. I cant seem to get the best out of graham Carey, I'm leaking goals from all over the pitch, I'm not scoring many goals either, I'm watching the matches with extensive highlights and from the data analyst camera to see if there's anything blindingly obvious but nothing sticks out, I've tried numerous formations, being attacking and defensive but nothing has worked. Someone please help me, I've attached some screen shots which hopefully are viewable.

[herne79]

Tough gig at Argyle.  Newly promoted and favourites for relegation, iffy squad and not much money.  Bigger clubs will see you as easy prey and come at you.

And therein perhaps lies some things to take advantage of.

1)  Your own expectations.  All you need do season one is survive.  Then think about consolidation in season 2 and perhaps more from season 3 onwards.  Take the long term view.

2)  Other clubs expectations.  A small club just promoted and favourites to get relegated will be seen as an opportunity for bigger clubs to get easy points.

3)  Risk.  This is what it all boils down to really.  Teams may play quite attacking and open against you (ie., in a quite risky fashion) but that in turn can leave themselves open at the back where you could take advantage.  Play tight in a low risk fashion yourself, perhaps hoping to hit them with fast counter attacks.  It won't always work due to the difference in quality of sides you play against, but remember 1) above and your own expectations.

So, from the 3 systems you posted above, playing with either the Attacking or Overload mentality as you have been is asking for trouble.  They are both very high risk strategies and you'll simply be overpowered and out played by other teams.  But your third system will have possibilities.  It's a naturally deep formation with lots of players back to help defend.  The Mentality is probably good (you could also try the Counter mentality at times) but your roles and duties I think could use a little work.  At present you have 8 players with a defend duty (Defensive Mentality + Auto duty actually equates to a defend duty) which is perhaps too cautious.  Two playmakers in central midfield is also perhaps too much.

If you check the pinned thread at the top of the forum labelled "Please Read", look at the guides section.  In there you'll find an article all about counter attacking and it could be just what you need (don't just copy the tactic in there though).  But again, remember your own expectations - don't get carried away, just pick up points where you can and avoid the drop.

And one final thought on Carey.  Yeh he's probably your best player but don't get too focussed on him.  If you do, what happens if he gets injured?  Think about your team's balance as a whole and how it can all fit together.  Don't just go with "it's Carey's best role therefore I must use it".  At Argyle you have lots of players who can play in multiple positions and roles which is great when you need to find cover for players who might be out injured, but not so great if you expect them to play a rather specific role for someone.

[chrislaz]

Hi – sorry to hear you’re struggling. You’ve actually prompted me to attempt an Argyle save (been putting it off all season), so I’ll see if I can help…

It’s a tough challenge taking on Argyle this season. The players (on the whole) aren’t really good enough for League 1 – Carey, Matthews, Threlkeld and Church being the possible exceptions. I had hoped that some of the squad might’ve got a slight improvement in their stats during the latest DB update – we are 6^th in the league after all!

A few general pointers… first of all, we’re predicted to finish 24^th, which suggests that Argyle will start as underdogs in most games (for now at least). Therefore, you need to factor this into your tactical set-up. You could, in theory, set your team up to be attacking in the hope that you’ll catch opponents off-guard and exploit gaps at the back, however I’m not sure the squad has the attacking talent to pull this off. I’d therefore suggest a more conservative approach and try and grind out results by relying on counter-attacks and your set-pieces (not too dissimilar to Argyle’s actual approach this season). As for Carey, I wouldn’t focus too heavily on building a tactic around him – concentrate on getting the right tactic/shape established first and see how the team performs. If the team is performing well, it stands to reason that he will be a major part in this success!

In terms of the approaches you’ve taken so far, the overriding observation is that you don’t seem to have a clear idea of how you want your team to play. Get this sorted and then think about your base formation, mentality and shape (this post by @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! is really good and helped me to get my head around these aspects). As I mentioned above, Argyle are overwhelming favourites for relegation, so an expansive, attacking approach might be tricky. Also, have a look at the Team Report to see where your squad compares to the rest of the league and identify your strengths and weaknesses. You can then tailor your tactical approach accordingly. These are the things I’ve identified in my save:

Positives

• High Teamwork / Determination / Work Rate – be more disciplined?
• High Fitness – Lower risk of injury, can keep a small-ish squad?
• Good Jumping / Heading – whipped crosses?
• Decent Goalkeepers – better chance of keeping clean sheets!

Negatives

• Poor Passing – More Direct?
• Poor Stamina – Close Less?
• Poor Tackling – Stay on Feet?
• Poor Decisions – Highly Structured / Be More Disciplined?
• Poor Shooting – sign another striker?

Turning to my own approach, below is what I’m going to start with. It may need some tweaking as I go through the season. The basic plan is to remain solid defensively, use the creative talents of Carey and Lameiras on the break and get Sarcevic forward to support Taylor.

  

Mentality: Counter. As above, I’m not expected to win many games, so a lower mentality is necessary.

Shape: Highly Structured. My squad has low attributes for decision-making, so I want them to prioritise their assigned roles. I will then use player roles/mentality to define how I want each player to function.

Base formation: 4-1-4-1. Lends itself to a counter-attacking mentality, based around keeping men behind the ball whilst giving opportunities to attack in wide areas when possible.

Team Instructions: I’m a fan of “less is more” here, however I may tweak these as the games unfold. For now, I’m going to start with 3 TIs, which suit the system I am playing and the strengths/weaknesses of my squad (see above).

Player roles/mentality: most players on defend or support duty, reflecting my low-medium risk approach. One of my central midfielders has an attack duty (probably Sarcevic) as I need to get someone forward to work off my TM.

Player instructions:

• GK – take long kicks
• Defenders – none
• DMC – fewer risky passes
• MR – none, but Carey has personalised PIs of “get further forward” and “roam from position”
• MCR – shoot less often, dribble less
• MCL – move into channels
• ML – none, but Carey has the same PIs as above if I play him on the left
• SC – move into channels

I hope this helps. I'll try and post some updates as I go through my save. I'm not expecting miracles, but I'm hoping I can hold my own against some of the weaker teams in the division and slowly start to climb the league. Good luck!!

 

 

[green and white barmy army]

Thanks for the replies, the attacking and overload tatics were only used when chasing games as I usually concede quite early, 1 big positive I have only just found in the last couple of minutes is theres a sell on clause for an ex player that can be sold and will improve the transfer budget by 1.5 million at least. I will have anther look at the defensive formation as I believe that will probably be my best hope.

[Old Scouser Tommy]

I love a challenge. I'm going to start a new save with Argyle and see what's what. I'll let you know how I get on and see if I can be of any help.

[Old Scouser Tommy]

So I started a save with Argyle and went with this system to start with. Don't have much time at the moment but I've just finished pre-season so after 2 or 3 games into the season I'll post some results.

[sporadicsmiles]

On 3/4/2018 at 15:09, green and white barmy army said:

Thanks for the replies, the attacking and overload tatics were only used when chasing games as I usually concede quite early, 1 big positive I have only just found in the last couple of minutes is theres a sell on clause for an ex player that can be sold and will improve the transfer budget by 1.5 million at least. I will have anther look at the defensive formation as I believe that will probably be my best hope.

The important thing to remember is that you can set up a tactic to be defensively solid (as a 4141 should be) but still carry a significant goal threat. If teams are going to attack you, you need to work out how best to exploit the space they leave you. Normally, this will involve having players who have roles that see them get forward in attacks, and who have attributes to do so. When I am trying to take advantage of the counter, I will try to play the fastest players I have up front. It also can pay to put players in good positions from defensive set pieces, to aid your counter attacking.

[FMunderachiever]

I dont know who plays for Plymouth or how they would fit together without looking more closely

However, i did have a great save on fm17 as AFC Wimbledon who id rate as a similar type standard to Plymouth.

 

What helped me achieve promotion to the championship in that save at the first time of asking and consolidate in the championship, was identifying a forward with extreme pace. Even if his finishing wasnt great, he would get in position to score.

 

I then used pass into space, hit early crosses, and go route one and the players started launching balls into the channels and over the top where invariably, he would beat the defense. It was Lyle Taylor.

 

I think on THIS version, the long through ball seems to be a weapon, so id look for getting in on goal in as few passes as possible, presumably you dont have too many good passers anyway so i think this would work.

 

Ive also found if playing a front 2, a target man and defensive forward combo is particularly effective, as the defensive forward closes down the loose ball and can act as a player in the build up.

 

Then use intensity as the main weapon, raining in crosses non stop until the ball breaks for you.

 

YES, its ugly, but it can be very effective.

[FMunderachiever]

Im loading plymouth now. Tactics to follow when settled

 

First impressions are the squad is useful. I think we can do something.

[FMunderachiever]

Just done pre season and August, and its been a solid start so far:

4 league games 7 points isnt a bad return, but its been frustrating. Opening day away at Peterborough, we were down to 10 men after just 4 minutes. Miller the right back sent off for a two footed challenge. He was fined a weeks wages afterwards and rightly so for being a plonker.

The game against Scunthorpe we played really well. Went in at half time two up, and dominated almost all the game. They nabbed a goal just after half time but we were still dominant, and then a rare instance of a direct free kick being scored meant Scunthorpe took a point on 88 mins.

A good confidence boosting win away to Exeter in the checkatrade with a changed team was nice, and im particularly happy with 3 clean sheets so far. Not too upset about losing in the Carabao cup away at Ipswich. Always a tall order.

Im using a variation of my two segundo volante tactic with some different player instructions, and its a bit early to tell whether the tactic is optimal:

 

 

[green and white barmy army]

thanks for the replies and good luck with your argyle saves, I've started again and I haven't scored a goal in the first 5 games probably cause I've only registered about 2 shot on target to my knowledge, I've conceded 8, I know I'm **** at  fm but even this is bad. Here is my form and current formation I'm playing with.

 

[Rashidi]

@green and white barmy army Nice handle :-)

@herne79 Makes a good point. When you want to create a defensive strategy to survive you need to consider how mentality and shape affect what you do. Your initial system was barmy as far I could tell. Overload/fluid basically tells the whole team to get off its butts and think only of attacking. It will affect how they use the flanks, how they close down, how they pass and how they move off the ball. Everything will be geared towards getting the ball up quickly, and it tells EVERYONE to do this.

Here is where shape comes into play. Shape well it basically helps you affect groups of players and this works with your mentality in general and where these players are on the pitch. If you choose a structured shape, the attacking duties in the final third are the only barmy lot. The support duties will get involved, but they won't do so early in your own half. Here is where we start asking "Which support duty joins the barmy army?"

So if you have an attacking shadow striker, you don't want him to be on his own, well here you could tell one of your wingers who is on support to go on an attacking duty. This way when the ball quickly transitions from defence to attack, that winger does his level best to make sure he's one of those up in front with the barmy lot.  See how we have used duty to influence who switches on in attack? 

Lets take a look at your latest tactic now. Applying what I have listed earlier:

Your overall positions indicate that this is a relative defensive formation to begin with. Regardless of mentality, its gonna take some effort to get the ball up, and a lot will rest on the AP in the middle and the 3 front men to, hold up the ball or do something with it. With that in mind how can we influence things?

Standard/Control (Structured) Turn one winger to attack and other to support, unleash one wingback on attack. You can either be attacking down one flank from a deep defensive transition or you could go down the other flank when you camp

Standard(fluid) : Here you will see more players getting involved in transitions, however now we have the issue, is the team good enough, to keep the ball? Do you need to use PIs to get the lads to keep it simple? If they aren't? You may need to go all Brian Clough with them.

 

[green and white barmy army]

@Rashidi sorry I didn't make it clear that overload tactic wasn't my primary tactic for starting matches but because I kept conceding goals it was the tactic I had to use to try and get back into the matches, slight improvement I have managed to score 1 goal and win 1 game but that was against Exeter in the checkatrade cup, the defensive formations is me trying to make argyle hard to beat and to stop conceding so many goals especially as I'm up against it in league 1.

[Rien102]

As @Rashidi said, one of the big question about the fluid system is the ability to keep the ball.  I had success with that tactivc before but i used a Structured mentality, hoofing the ball in front as fast as possible.  Maybe a combination Poacher/Wingers?  As for the "Close down more" shout, it means that the shape of tour defensive formation is gonna get wrecked fast when the opponen is playing around your box, and especially for the CDs, it will create holes.  Why not keep the closing down more only for your DMs andmaybe the CM too and keep the shape of the back line to protect the box?

[FMunderachiever]

31 minutes ago, green and white barmy army said:

@Rashidi sorry I didn't make it clear that overload tactic wasn't my primary tactic for starting matches but because I kept conceding goals it was the tactic I had to use to try and get back into the matches, slight improvement I have managed to score 1 goal and win 1 game but that was against Exeter in the checkatrade cup, the defensive formations is me trying to make argyle hard to beat and to stop conceding so many goals especially as I'm up against it in league 1.

September update will follow today and will look to move into october.

I quite like this squad its useful. I like that you have some versatile players within it. I also think the back 4 is actually a good back 4, its just lacking some depth.

One attribute the squad seems to lack however is pace, and thats something ill look to change as the game develops.

Hang in there on your save, its a tough start. Playing Peterborough away, Charlton, a championship team in the carabao cup depending who it is, its easy for the heads to drop early. Im absolutely sure you will register wins very soon and get the green army up towards mid table

[FMunderachiever]

36 minutes ago, green and white barmy army said:

@Rashidi sorry I didn't make it clear that overload tactic wasn't my primary tactic for starting matches but because I kept conceding goals it was the tactic I had to use to try and get back into the matches, slight improvement I have managed to score 1 goal and win 1 game but that was against Exeter in the checkatrade cup, the defensive formations is me trying to make argyle hard to beat and to stop conceding so many goals especially as I'm up against it in league 1.

Also, i put my base tactic up in previous post, but not my team instructions.

I can see your base tactic, but perhaps if we can see your team instructions then there may be some tweaks that can help.

Are you also using any individual player instructions?

[green and white barmy army]

ok so slight update although still not good, I've drawn a few games now and have won 1 league game, I've uploaded my TI's this time, I don't tend to use many as I'm am only playing league 1 so don't want to overload the players with too many instructions, I'm still playing with the previous formation but now learn to try different player roles during a match.

 

 

[FMunderachiever]

September done, and its been a really poor month sadly. A return of just 7 points from 7 league games has dropped us back into the pack and away from the playoffs:

September started with a comfortable 3-0 win over MK Dons, but the worrying performances were Walsall and Doncaster. The 3-0 Doncaster win did flatter them a little as we made chances, but Walsall gave us the run around and it simply wasnt acceptable.

Performances DID improve however. We played well albeit in defeat at Wigan, and really should have beaten Bristol Rovers, but Carey unfortunately went off injured and we missed two late chances through Sarcevic and Grant.

Its meant we are 16th in the table:

Im still going with my 433/451 hybrid for now, albeit with player instructions for the centrebacks not to look long early, and for the two segundo volante's to look for a pass rather than shooting.

 

Also, with the absence of Carey, i am debating whether to tweak the formation or go like for like by playing Sarcevic in his role.

The lack of pace is really telling i think within the group and its something that in transfer windows moving forward MUST be addressed.

Despite this, Simon Church has scored 7 league goals for me, a very good return for the journeyman and i think the addition of a defensive forward into the team is a good one.

 

[FMunderachiever]

October is done now, and the issue is consistency. On our day, we are capable of playing some beautiful football. But we are also capable of lapses in concentration, sloppy play, and a lack of clinical finishing.

7 League points picked up in the month, a month that started with a defeat to Chelsea U23s in the Checkatrade, but not a terminal issue, as a win vs Yeovil will send us comfortably through, and id have taken that at the start of the competition:

Chelsea U23s had too much for us on the day. I made too many changes to the side, so ill take the blame. Shrewsbury did hand us a beating, no complaints there either. But the other 4 games, i had tweaked the formation and we had played some good football. Blackburn are top, but we defended resolutely, and although we didnt offer much going forward, we were good value for a point at Ewood.

Away to AFC Wimbledon, we were good. Wasteful in front of goal however and it cost us in the end, going down by the odd goal. But the Fleetwood and Rochdale wins were both excellent. Particularly the Rochdale win. The 3-2 scoreline looks close, but in reality we dominated the game and Rochdales 2nd goal was late into injury time in the 2nd half, a consolation goal.

All that has left us 14th in the table which is a useful position. Its safe, but id like to see us kick on:

The tactic ive switched to does look pretty unusual, and ive been fiddling around with it, still looking for the optimal balance:

Although it looks weird, its essentially a back 5. Fox drops into the centre back position as a half back. I like him in this role, he comes deep and can initiate moves from this position. the two centre backs are pretty solid, but could be improved upon. Ive used player instructions on both, to attempt less risky passes.

The two segundo volante's are set to close down more. Essentially, the ball goes forward, Churchy battles for it, and then the segundo's get in and around the 2nd ball and we play from there. Initially, the wing backs were a little more pushed on. Now they just deliver long angled balls forward into space.

The formation im using now seems to benefit Carey too, hes getting some decent assists and goals himself now.

The team instructions are designed to get the lads playing balls into open spaces quickly, and we get onto the 2nd ball. Its pragmatic football. The deep sitting defence counters our lack of pace. Get stuck in gets us "up and at em".

Green and White Barmy Army, please keep updating your progress. Im loving managing this team!! i usually only manage in the top leagues, and i didnt know Plymouths players but i even followed their real life result today, 1-1 with Fleetwood, the loanee youngster from West Ham scored the goal i think? I remember you had a decent team a while back though with the likes of Buszaky, Halmosi, Paul Wotton is on my staff on the game and he used to smack his penalties. Larrieu in goal i think too.

[green and white barmy army]

unfortunately I don't think I'm going to last long on this save as the first rumours of discontent from the dressing room are starting to appear and I cant buy a league win and at the time of writing this I'm getting run ragged by Fleetwood, if I do get sacked I will start another save with argyle as I'm determined to play at least 1 whole season with them. 

[FMunderachiever]

4 hours ago, green and white barmy army said:

unfortunately I don't think I'm going to last long on this save as the first rumours of discontent from the dressing room are starting to appear and I cant buy a league win and at the time of writing this I'm getting run ragged by Fleetwood, if I do get sacked I will start another save with argyle as I'm determined to play at least 1 whole season with them. 

Keep grafting. It is difficult when theres that "moment" where the morale seems to turn against you and they dont "buy into" what you want to do.

 

Its a really tough team to manage. Youre in at the deep end with them no question. Like Herne said, just survive the first season, keep them up

[FMunderachiever]

5 hours ago, green and white barmy army said:

unfortunately I don't think I'm going to last long on this save as the first rumours of discontent from the dressing room are starting to appear and I cant buy a league win and at the time of writing this I'm getting run ragged by Fleetwood, if I do get sacked I will start another save with argyle as I'm determined to play at least 1 whole season with them. 

I feel like given your username, you are a Plymouth fan but I could be assuming.

Are you trying to emulate the style of play they use in real life and its coming unstuck?

[green and white barmy army]

yeh I am a Plymouth fan, not trying to emulate their style in real life as that would involve keeping clean sheets an that's something I never really been able to do with any success, I'm just trying to find a formation style of play to allow me to stay in league one and try and push on from there.

[FMunderachiever]

27 minutes ago, green and white barmy army said:

yeh I am a Plymouth fan, not trying to emulate their style in real life as that would involve keeping clean sheets an that's something I never really been able to do with any success, I'm just trying to find a formation style of play to allow me to stay in league one and try and push on from there.

Its just a tough club to manage. Staying in league 1 and building from there is a good achievement.

Id say just looking at the tactics youve posted on here, id be a little concerned on your 4123 tactic, youve decided to use early crosses but to one lone striker who likes to come deep. So id imagine he doesnt have much to feed off.

I think 4141 has potential but where id differ slightly is in the central midfield two, id look to get one of them breaking forward and up with your striker and beyond him. Im not sure about using a combination of playmakers for this paternership, i think a central midfielder on attack duty could work well for this.

Ill get November done this afternoon and post my progress up. I like this thread and this team a lot.

[green and white barmy army]

have managed to get a few draws since my last post and just secured a big come from behind win against 1 of my relegation rivals Gillingham, I don't really have a settled formation due to a few injuries which probably doesn't help along with a couple of players moaning about a lack of first team opportunities. But playing with a target man in ryan taylor and simon church as an advanced forward seems to be working in creating more chances.

 

 

[chrislaz]

I love that a thread about Argyle has got so many people interested! Anyway, I promised I'd post an update once I'd got a bit further into my save...

I had a good start to the season, and picked up a couple of good results against Peterborough away and Birmingham in the League Cup. However, I had a few struggles after that and had to start from scratch with my tactical set-up. The result is that I feel like things have turned a corner. We currently sit 7th in the league and are unbeaten in four (including a win away at Wigan where we were 4-0 and missed a penalty for 5-0!!). It's also worth pointing out that Graham Carey got injured in my 4th league match and will be out for around 3 months!

In terms of my tactical approach, I've ended up with three tactics. I don't use masses of TIs or PIs, but I tailor these based on the opposition and how I think they are going to attack me and/or where I can exploit them. For me, this is the key to success with a below-average team - you can't just create a decent tactic and expect to outplay teams like you could if you were Man City or Barcelona. You need to come up with a gameplan of sorts for each opponent. 

These are the options I have for setting my team up:

• A counter-attacking tactic for away matches and/or where we are overwhelming favourites to lose. The approach is based on keeping men behind the ball and using my wide men to get forward and get around my defensive forward.
• Two standard tactics for home games or games where I fancy my chances of winning. The basic 4-4-1-1 is based on getting the ball wide and launching crosses into the box for Ryan Taylor - I've had a bit of success with this, but I'm still not 100% happy with the effect. The 4-2-3-1 is a similar approach, however the wide men play as inside forwards and I push the full-backs on a bit. The crosses are aimed towards the far post, which has resulted in my inside forwards combining well and scoring goals.

Here are screen grabs of each of the tactics:

I've been quite active in the transfer market, mostly to boost my attacking options. I released Te Loeke, Letheren, Grant and Ainsworth on free transfers (which cost a fair bit of my transfer budget) and brought in a few attacking players on loan and one on a permanent deal. The best bit of business has been Kyle McAllister from Derby - who I signed to cover for Carey's injury - he's scored six in five starts and looks to be a great find.

Like I said, it's still early days, but I feel like we've turned a bit of a corner and the Wigan result makes me think this team can be anyone on our day. I still think promotion might be a bit of a tall order, but I'll give it my best shot. I'll try and post another update or two as we go through the season.

 

[FMunderachiever]

Its interesting people are already doing transfer business as the argyle. Ive stayed away from that in the first window at least, so i can have a good look at Plymouths real life squad and make some decisions on where to strengthen as the game goes on.

Just completed November and i am FRUSTRATED!!!!

November results have seen us progress easily in the FA Cup to face Luton in round 2, and in the Checkatrade, as a weakened team negotiated Yeovil but not with the style i was looking for.

The league however has left me MAD. The Northampton town win was a good win and saw a return to the 433 hybrid formation. However, the game against Oxford we took the lead twice, and twice were pegged back through own goals from Miller and Vyner. A terrible way to drop 2 points. Likewise, away at Portsmouth, we looked to attack from the first whistle and unsettle the hosts with our intensity. But a lack of clinical finishing meant we had to settle for a point when really, we should have taken away all 3.

It means that in the month, we have amassed 5 points. Ive made my feelings known to the players that I do NOT think that is acceptable. We are camped in mid table now and not looking good enough for a playoff place. Top half is the aim realistically, but we are NOT showing consistency. Hence being camped in 15th.

The tactic is ever changing with slight modifications:

Ive dropped the two wingbacks into a back 4 rather than a back 5, and changed Fox's role into a playmaker role.

Threlkeld is doing a superb job in midfield, but now Makasi is fit i think he will come in in place of Songo'o or he could drop into the back 4. Threlkeld and Songo'o/Makasi are told to look for the pass as opposed to shooting, and its made us more intricate in the buildup.

Im thinking that Grant needs to play as a winger to supply back post crosses for Carey but its an area of the team im looking to strengthen.

Ideally, a hard working box to box type mifielder with good mentals and physicals, and an attacking left forward would be priorities to strengthen in my side.

I havent given up on the back 5 completely, but we seem to get done by the throughball more in that formation, despite it giving us a little bit more going forward.

[Old Scouser Tommy]

Little update on how the tactic is doing after 5 league games. Seems to be working well. I've changed slightly to a standard mentality from an attacking one.

[FMunderachiever]

18 minutes ago, Old Scouser Tommy said:

Little update on how the tactic is doing after 5 league games. Seems to be working well. I've changed slightly to a standard mentality from an attacking one.

Wow jesus, what a start

What tactic is this with?

[Old Scouser Tommy]

It's the one I posted earlier on in the thread. Nothings changed at all. I go between attacking and standard on occasion depending on the opposition but mostly attacking. I want to give them something to worry about instead of the other way around. Just because I'm expected to go down why should I lie down and defend. I like to take the game to them and it's working.

[FMunderachiever]

31 minutes ago, Old Scouser Tommy said:

It's the one I posted earlier on in the thread. Nothings changed at all. I go between attacking and standard on occasion depending on the opposition but mostly attacking. I want to give them something to worry about instead of the other way around. Just because I'm expected to go down why should I lie down and defend. I like to take the game to them and it's working.

Ive kept the same team so i can manage "plymouth" if that makes sense, the actual plymouth that are playing in real life, but i must say Baningime would be a great signing at that level, and where youve brought in Barjonas is an area i think we are weak too

[Old Scouser Tommy]

I wanted to add a couple of players to help 'make a difference' in the attacking sense so Barjonas and Baptista were available. Baptista has disappointed slightly but it's still early days but he has scored 3 but playing in that wide left area. The inside forward role is one I'm a big fan of and want him to get his fair share of the goals. The Segundo Volante is my favourite role on FM ever I think because it gives defensive stability and an attacking threat. Without the ball he falls back into a defensive position alongside the DM but with an attacking duty gets forward and has 3 goals in 9 games and 3 assists. The DLF which is mainly Church has 10 in 9 in all comps. So far so good. Feel free to try it out on our own save if you want to.

I don't like using too many team instructions and normally stick to 2 or 3. In my Liverpool and Burton saves I have better players so have Play Out Of Defence too. I feel having a smaller amount of instructions gives the play a more natural feel rather than forcing things too much. That's why I don't really use too many playmaker roles. I tries a False 9 with this but it didn't do what I wanted and found him a bit too deep and not on the end f things. Different things work with different players though so it may have worked with someone else just not with what I have available to me.

[green and white barmy army]

I literally feel like this games just takes the ****, as I'm getting thumped by a relegation rival 6-2, do defenders actually work on this game or is it just me? 

[FMunderachiever]

25 minutes ago, green and white barmy army said:

I literally feel like this games just takes the ****, as I'm getting thumped by a relegation rival 6-2, do defenders actually work on this game or is it just me? 

what is your general approach to defending?

[green and white barmy army]

well my 2 cbs are defensive cbs, as their passing is poor so neither can play as a ball playing defender and for the same reason they don't play as a regular cb as apparently they need composure to help maintain possession but they also have mistakes in them which is why I just ask them to clear the ball away. Neither of them are quick so I usually always defend deep. The 2 full backs or wing backs depending on what role I select, I either set them to a defend mentality or support, I've asked them to stay wider in hope of stopping crosses to stop conceding from them or to play narrow and to try and stop any through balls.

[herne79]

22 minutes ago, green and white barmy army said:

I've asked them to stay wider in hope of stopping crosses to stop conceding from them or to play narrow and to try and stop any through balls.

Those are instructions for when you are in possession.

Where are you at the moment?  Still the same system you posted on Saturday?

[green and white barmy army]

I've gone to a straight 442 with carey as a roaming playmaker and that seems to be working better than any other position for him. I cant remember 1 good game Threlkeld has had he literally seems to average low 6s almost every game.

 

 

[FMunderachiever]

On my plymouth save we are bang average and destined for midtable and a summer rethink for season 2.

 

Just on the subject of defending though id say firstly, id consider your overall defensive strategy. How every player in your team not just the back 4 will contribute to stopping goals. What you intend to do with pressing marking shape etc.

 

I perhaps wouldnt choose two defensive centrebacks together as theyll hoof aimlessly....and invite pressure onto you. Just tell your centre backs to pass and not take risks...allow yourself time to reorganise.

 

And sometimes getting beat will happen too. Were managing an average league 1 team. The guys you see stringing 7 wins together....theyre fm geniuses...theyre not the norm.

 

Most people will struggle. Just keep msking small adjustments and plug away

 

Screenshots to follow during this week.

[FMunderachiever]

PAINSTAKING PROGRESS KEEPS FAINT PLAYOFF HOPES ALIVE

There is one game left in January, but i had a good session today and completed December and January (apart from Oldham away, the last game of the month).

At the beginning of the month, things couldnt get much lower. Dumped out of both cups in the space of 3 days, Luton were good value for their win, and nursing an injury list, a weakened team were battered at Fratton Park against Pompey in the Checkatrade. Looking on the positive side of things.....we achieved the boards goals for the checkatrade, and the FA cup was a low priority, although a big moneyspinning tie would have been nice. But managing a thin squad, the extra rest is nice.

At this point, i was going with the 433/451 hybrid formation, with the exception of the game at home vs Walsall where i sent the lads out in a flat 442 system. We had used this system a couple of times this season to modest effect. But this was a game we most certainly SHOULD have won, but blew a 2 goal lead. Performances were largely decent, but i was disappointed with the 0-0 vs Gillingham.

That however may have been the turning point. Rather than abandon the 433 hybrid in favour of a 442, I tweaked the 433 and straight away, there have been 3 very impressive performances. Particularly the win vs Wigan, we were dominant in all areas of the pitch and far more comfortable winners than 2-1 would suggest.

The tweaks are as follows:

First of all, swapping Carey to the left side, and Grant to the right has proved an instant hit. Both look comfortable, and threatening going forwards.

In changing Carey's role, to join up with Chuch more, he has some new PI's. He now sits narrower, and crosses to the back post. This is working VERY nicely. As Carey comes and influences the play inside, he joins up with Threlkeld who is the heartbeat of the team and a very consistent 7.2 performer as the left Segundo Volante, and Sawyer with his PI to stay wider gives a little overlap support to Carey, creating some 2 v 1's down the left side.

A slight change of role for Churchy too, moved from a defensive forward to a deep lying forward. This may need adjustment but he is looking lively.

I had always tended to opt for Songo'o in midfield, but Moses Makasi has really come into his own in January with some good displays.

Team instruction wise, i have lowered the tempo slightly, and made us slightly less direct. I back our ability to create on the ball. Our buildup now is slightly more patient, which is good as too often Church would compete for the long ball without adequate support. The slightly lower tempo has us playing some decent pass and move football in spells.

To support this, a new signing has come in on loan. Zeli Ismael offers competition in the wide positions and pace. Its something i think our side is badly lacking:

 

All this has meant that we are 6 points off the playoffs with 17 league games to go. Its unlikely, but not impossible and we need to hit promotion form to overhaul the points difference.

One thing is for sure, we aint gonna give up until its mathematically impossible. We are fighters.

[FMunderachiever]

2 hours ago, green and white barmy army said:

I've gone to a straight 442 with carey as a roaming playmaker and that seems to be working better than any other position for him. I cant remember 1 good game Threlkeld has had he literally seems to average low 6s almost every game.

 

 

Just looking at this tactic, i think the main issue you might have contributing to the defensive issues, is that your midfield central 2 is not offering your centrebacks much protection. Both players are roaming, which means they could both get caught out of position together.

It might be better to set Ness to a central midfielders role and ask him to hold his position.

[green and white barmy army]

I do believe its only a matter of time before I'm sacked, I've got 5 games left after the game I'm currently losing and I'm 3 points adrift with no idea where my next win is coming from, we've been ok scoring goals recently but the defence has been as much use as a chocolate teapot, I've tried playing an bwm in front of the back 4 so then I concede goals from crosses, I then get my fbs or wbs to close down more and I concede through the middle. I think this game hates me lol 

[FMunderachiever]

23 minutes ago, green and white barmy army said:

I do believe its only a matter of time before I'm sacked, I've got 5 games left after the game I'm currently losing and I'm 3 points adrift with no idea where my next win is coming from, we've been ok scoring goals recently but the defence has been as much use as a chocolate teapot, I've tried playing an bwm in front of the back 4 so then I concede goals from crosses, I then get my fbs or wbs to close down more and I concede through the middle. I think this game hates me lol 

Id put a nice little string of wins together then got battered by wimbledon. Its knocked the stuffing out of the lads. Playing only for pride now and mid table

[green and white barmy army]

AAAND its done, relegated and sacked as I lost the dressing room. I did have a minor success with this 4141 formation as I picked up 5 points in 4 games. But that doesn't hide the fact I've conceded 86 goals. So I will be starting again as argyle as I'm determined to do well with them.

 

[FMunderachiever]

14 hours ago, green and white barmy army said:

AAAND its done, relegated and sacked as I lost the dressing room. I did have a minor success with this 4141 formation as I picked up 5 points in 4 games. But that doesn't hide the fact I've conceded 86 goals. So I will be starting again as argyle as I'm determined to do well with them.

 

Im coming towards the end of season 1 and were going to finish around 16th i think.

This is a shame as at one point we were only 2 points off the playoffs but when safe, the players hit the comfort zone and stopped putting in performances. Highly disappointing.

Why not move onto another club naturally to continue your career? Apply for a vacant post and inprove them?

Shall i scout my targets for plymouth season 2 thats the question...

[FMunderachiever]

15 hours ago, green and white barmy army said:

AAAND its done, relegated and sacked as I lost the dressing room. I did have a minor success with this 4141 formation as I picked up 5 points in 4 games. But that doesn't hide the fact I've conceded 86 goals. So I will be starting again as argyle as I'm determined to do well with them.

 

Just IMO but youre not offering your back 4 much protection.

 

Two carrileros together...they could both be out of position at the same time leaving 2 or 3 v 1 vs songoo.

Would you not be better off using your central midfielders AS central midfielders?

 

 

[green and white barmy army]

to be honest it just got to the stage when I was just trying anything to stay up so just trying any combinations to help but it just wasn't meant to be. I have already created another argyle save but if this one doesn't work out then I will carry on and get another job else where, i'd just like to do well with argyle for once.

[FMunderachiever]

On 15/03/2018 at 19:16, green and white barmy army said:

to be honest it just got to the stage when I was just trying anything to stay up so just trying any combinations to help but it just wasn't meant to be. I have already created another argyle save but if this one doesn't work out then I will carry on and get another job else where, i'd just like to do well with argyle for once.

Did you restart?

[green and white barmy army]

yeh I did restart, and its the same problem of conceding goals, I've played the first 3 league matches and conceded 9 goals, the defence just aren't up to the task of league one so need to look for couple of loans maybe, the assists locations seem to be from the left crosses and straight ahead via through balls I'm getting torn to picecs.

 

 

 

[herne79]

1 hour ago, green and white barmy army said:

yeh I did restart, and its the same problem of conceding goals, I've played the first 3 league matches and conceded 9 goals, the defence just aren't up to the task of league one so need to look for couple of loans maybe, the assists locations seem to be from the left crosses and straight ahead via through balls I'm getting torn to picecs

Why such a deep defensive line?  The Counter mentality sets a deep line by default; having a player in the DM position pushes that line deeper; and then you tell them to drop much deeper.  This goes a little beyond inviting pressure to hit teams on the break.

Did you read that article I mentioned above all about counter attacking?  If you did remember that 1) having a playmaker in midfield may hamper your counter attacks as your players may look to pass through him rather than zooming forward on the break; and 2) any instructions you set will be used by your players when you are not counter attacking.  This is because when a counter starts, the AI takes over and makes your team ultra attacking for the duration, ignoring your tactical instructions.

[green and white barmy army]

I'm defending deep cause my defence are slow and if I push them up teams play through me like their Barcelona, but its not working keeping them deep cause I cant stop crosses which is how I appear to be conceding the most goals. I did read the article you mention but may have to go through it again a few more times, I forgot about playing a playmaker when trying to counter. it appears my tactical knowledge is non existent when it comes to fm lol.