We need to talk about Shadow Strikers

[TrainInVain]

It's time for the talk that you never wanted to have. You're 13, your dad has called upstairs for you, he didn't realise you're actually on the stairs, he's here now so you may as well have this talk on the stairs, this is awkward, we're both sat down, on the stairs, why here?, it doesn't matter, it's started. 

 

Who wants to have a go at answering these mysteries of the universe:

 

1.      What are the drawbacks of Shadow Strikers? Surely if a SS in the AM strata scores loads and also help midfield gain a small bit of possession...why would you ever play two out and out forwards?

 

2.      Irrespective of playing style or team instructions, which is the best forward to partner a AM position SS with? The forward and SS play off each other as a pair in relative isolation so there’s less need to factor in other players- surely the SS has a preferred foil?

 

I'm Chelmsford City trying to recreate Conte's 3-4-3 (wish me luck) using wing backs. They're not set as CWB's, they're non-league players, know your limits. If you ask them to spend 90 minutes bombing up and down the touchline they'll be a wheezing, spluttering hot mess after about the 60th minute. So they're standard wing backs. Behind my front three of a DLF(s); SS(a) and AP(a) are two MC's- a BWD(d) and DLP(s). 

 

GK(being a goalie)

CD(d)

CD(c)

CD(d)

WBR(au)

WBL(au)

BWM(d)

DLP(s)

AP(a)

SS(a)

DLP(s)

 

One day, when I get up to the giddy heights of League One and I end up with someone similar to that fat chap who used to play up front for Bristol City (Lee someone?), I'd like to have the most decadent possible tactic. It’s what League One needs. I’d like to play a Trequartista alongside my SS, both behind the forward, with the Trequartista taking the place of the AP in the tactic above. There's no point in having a Trequartista now as asking your average non-league Ronaldinho to play one in place is a big enough gamble; asking them to play everywhere is just asking for trouble.

 

3.      I'm assuming that once I switch the AP(a) to a Trequartista(being amazing) there will be acres of space behind the front three. Herds of wildebeest sweeping across the plains. My AP who was half interested in tracking back is now a Trequartista completely disinterested in tracking back, nonchalantly strolling about the D waiting for someone else to recover possession, and both central midfielders are sitting deep. How to remedy this and fill that gap behind the front three- if there even is one?

 

All thoughts are welcome and actively encouraged.

[lemeuresnew]

47 minutes ago, TrainInVain said:

 What are the drawbacks of Shadow Strikers? Surely if a SS in the AM strata scores loads and also help midfield gain a small bit of possession...why would you ever play two out and out forwards?

depends on your squad, prefered style etc. i find if a team are playing deep 2 up front with good movement obviously makes more space than 1. a ss that doesnt have any space to attack obviously isnt as effective as one that does

49 minutes ago, TrainInVain said:

 Irrespective of playing style or team instructions, which is the best forward to partner a AM position SS with? The forward and SS play off each other as a pair in relative isolation so there’s less need to factor in other players- surely the SS has a preferred foil?

again, depends on your players and who you are playing. i would disagree that they are relatively isolated. no player in my teams are, as we are a team! for instance, yours isnt isolated as he has an ap next to him. this means that having a forward in front of him dropping too far back is ineffective usually, as they are playing in the same areas of the pitch. i would prefer my forward to be a real forward, staying forward. maybe floating into the wings to stretch things a bit

56 minutes ago, TrainInVain said:

to remedy this and fill that gap behind the front three- if there even is one?

how about putting the tranq in the forward position? if you keep your ss, it would create more room for him to attack similar to what i mentioned above. it isnt a role i usually use, but i would imagine it is an ideal role to play in front of a ss, maybe switching the ap to an am to keep some balance? i think having 2 attacking players behind a striker will naturally be hard to balance in any situation, are you not finding the gap behind them difficult already?

[m_fenton]

Lee Trundle.

[herne79]

The Trequartista is far from the work shy fop the in game description says it is.  That has more to do with the selected players' own attributes - especially Determination, Work Rate and (arguably) Aggression.  Give someone with low stats in those areas the TQ role and yeh he probably won't run around much.  Completely different story if he has high attributes.  Case in point - I used Tevez as a TQ at AMC in FM16.  Only my fullbacks did more running each match.

But remember, "high" and "low" are all relative to the level you are playing at.  I've been using a TQ just fine recently in Brazil Série B for example.

[enigmatic]

Drawbacks of shadow strikers? Well the way they play might not suit the strikers you have at your disposal: they don't do the target man thing and need a bit of pace to be effective.  And your strikers probably need retraining to play there (they can do a job without, especially if they're a good fast striker for the level, but their movement appears much better once they're accomplished). And some tactical setups benefit from not having your strikers come to help with the defence, such as the direct counter attacking approach that depends on playing long balls to your quick players sitting on the halfway line.

 

In terms of overall performance, they're immense. A Conte-inspired 3-4-3 with three shadow strikers is pretty much the most overachieving formation on the game, judging from the people that mess about with tactic testing leagues and winning the league with West Brom and Watford's original squads.

[TrainInVain]

I'm absolutely delighted with these responses, I am.

 

But I need to address them over the course of the weekend and not on Friday night.

 

Until then...

 

(Lee Trundle. It's always Lee Trundle.)

[westy8chimp]

In the attacking phase a SS will start deep and run into space. Do you have a midfield setup to play into space? (pass into space TI - vision, passing, decisions etc), do you have pacey SS's capable of running into that space and utilising it? (off the ball, pace etc)

A CF support, DLF or F9 would start slightly more advanced and drop deep. Do you have a midfield setup to run into the space vacated by the F9? CM (a) BBM with get further forward? Inside forward or WMs on attack duty?

CF attack, Poacher and Adv Fwd will stay advanced through the transition. Do you want to play a more rigid style of full backs and/or midfielders supporting and supplying a conventional attack?

 

[craigd84]

On 6/13/2017 at 14:30, herne79 said:

The Trequartista is far from the work shy fop the in game description says it is.  That has more to do with the selected players' own attributes - especially Determination, Work Rate and (arguably) Aggression.  Give someone with low stats in those areas the TQ role and yeh he probably won't run around much.  Completely different story if he has high attributes.  Case in point - I used Tevez as a TQ at AMC in FM16.  Only my fullbacks did more running each match.

But remember, "high" and "low" are all relative to the level you are playing at.  I've been using a TQ just fine recently in Brazil Série B for example.

This i cant second this enough!! If a player has a work rate of 20.. they will work to that level. So a treq with work rate of 20 will say run 5k per game but a treq with work rate of say 10 will run 2.5k 

 

Very basic explanation but stats and directions a very self explanatory.

[KingCanary]

I use a shadow striker in a 4-2-3-1. The one is either a defensive forward or complete forward set to support. This usually allows them to hold up the ball and let the ss run beyond and between defenders. Has worked a treat for me but I find decent players for the ss role hard to come by. 

[westy8chimp]

10 hours ago, KingCanary said:

but I find decent players for the ss role hard to come by

are you looking specifically for players with that role or at least position? I find most strikers & wingers, especially any with pace, dribbling and off the ball, to be perfect. But I am Man City so I guess I have luxury players. My best so far has been Mbappe (season 4 onwards), Aguero, Walcott on a free transfer aged 31, Dybala... Barbosa and G Jesus

[KingCanary]

3 hours ago, westy8chimp said:

are you looking specifically for players with that role or at least position? I find most strikers & wingers, especially any with pace, dribbling and off the ball, to be perfect. But I am Man City so I guess I have luxury players. My best so far has been Mbappe (season 4 onwards), Aguero, Walcott on a free transfer aged 31, Dybala... Barbosa and G Jesus

Yes, it's probably me being a bit narrow and looking for people who have that role in their top three roles. I should probably start looking at retraining strikers or midfielders to do the position.