If at first you don't succeed, blame the game and try again - A San Marino Youth Challenge 2.0

[Bedese]

Azerbaijan will provide a real challenge, but Andorra and Gibraltar will be easy enough to get past. It's the Nations League that will send the winners into the Euro Playoff, so it's time to apply for the job and see if they want me.

[Bedese]

We're in business. 

[Bedese]

[Bedese]

I'd hoped the league would have jumped up more than that.

[Ceching You Out]

3 hours ago, Jupjamie said:

Not having good youth intakes is part of the challenge, and helps make it so fun IMO. You can't just play your favourite formation and buy an AM to go in your 4-2-3-1 - you might want to play a 4-2-3-1, but if you don't have anyone that can play as a CAM, you'll have to adapt your tactics to fit what you do have. It's a really nice tactical challenge to build a solid system around the pieces you have. When I did this save on FM 15 I didn't write about it on the forums, but I had terrible luck with my intakes - for about 50 years, I didn't get a single striker that was first team quality through an intake - so I had to go strikerless. I'd never done it before and had no idea what to do, but I went to a 4-2-4-0, and using and adapting that was some of the most fun I've ever had on FM. Tactically, this save will stretch and challenge you, and it's absolutely awesome  

This is probably my favorite thing about youth only challenges. It's much easier to pick a formation you like, buy the corresponding best players, and watch it eventually succeed. In this, you don't get the luxury build around what you wish you had; you have to build around what you actually do have. Then a star player comes through and you might have to rethink your entire tactics.

I'm actually going through that process at the moment with my Avenir Beggen team. Our stand-outs have become a GK (easy enough) and a pacy, poor-finishing AMC (not so much). The AMC doesn't fit any of my defined roles -- how do I still capitalize on his skill-set? There's the challenge!

[Bedese]

Pathetic. We got played off the park by Derry City, and it's only some fantastic goalkeeping from Marco Maiani (YP93) and a stunning 25 yard effort from Andrea Ceccoli (YP90) that's sent us through - completely undeservedly.

 

If we play like we did against Derry, this will be real ugly.

[Bedese]

We took the lead inside 5 minutes, when Lonfernini delicately clipped one into the far corner. They hit back after a tidy finish from Petkovic, but we took the lead back moments later when Andrea Ceccoli (YP90) hit a longshot off the post - but that bounced onto the surprised keeper's hands before rebounding back into the goal. Slightly lucky, but we'll take it. They equalised late from a badly defended cross, but 2-2 away is a great result, and we're in with a great chance of getting a result at home.

[Bedese]

Can you say back to back Europa Group Stages for the first time in our history?

 

We started the game on fire, with Gabriele Rondelli (YP94) setting up Marco Casoli (YP97) beautifully twice, and he absolutely leathered the ball home both times. Loving the PPM. They got two in five minutes to turn the game on it's head - at 2-2 at HT, we were facing extra time if there were no more goals. But there were. Gabriele Rondelli (YP94) (who is an absolute star) arrived late at the backpost to tap home a cross, before Marco Casoli (YP97) sealed the deal, converting a penalty for his hatrick after he'd been impeded in the box. Just for good measure, he slammed home into an empty net after a mixup between Partizan's GK and  CB, and we're through to the CL Playoff and another guaranteed Europa group. 

 

To think we nearly blew it against Derry...

[Bedese]

Ooh, we have a rematch from last year. We still won't win (because they're pretty strong), but they were the easiest team we could have been drawn against.

[Bedese]

Absolutely superb! We took the lead early when some fantastic work from Roarie Sonupe (YP100) and Lorenzo Terenzi (YP96) down the right sent Sonupe through, and his cross was powerfully met at the near post by Marco Casoli (YP97). They equalised, but we didn't fold, and limited their chances to mostly harmless pot shots. 1-1 isn't a result that gives us a great shot of going through (I think we'll lose 2-0 or 3-0 away), but I'm really pleased with that performance.

[Bedese]

We're a long way away from competing with sides like these. On the bright side, we scored two, and we're back in the Europa Groups!

[Bedese]

Ajax and BMG will slaughter us, but I wonder if there's points to be had against Plzen...

[Bedese]

These games were always going to be easy. The real challenge is against Azerbaijan. It's a two way race between us and them for the group and the spot in the Euro Playoff - they're definitely favourites, but Andrea Montanari (two hatricks in two isn't bad...) might have that extra firepower that we need to take it.

[Jimbokav1971]

Great results against Partizan and Midtylland. 

[Bedese]

A draw is by no means a bad result (and it was a fair one), but we now need to avoid defeat in Azerbaijan (and have a better GD than them by smashing the other two). It won't be easy.

 

We were dreadful at the back (conceding two to Andorra? Really?) but a +3 GD isn't bad. Here's the table:

 

Our next game is against Azerbaijan. Win, and the title is ours. Draw and all we need to do is not do 4 goals better than us in the last games. Lose, and they win it. Simple enough.

[Bedese]

9 minutes ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

Great results against Partizan and Midtylland. 

Thanks Jimbo! I'm glad this isn't your Partizan team  The Kriss's may have been slightly too strong for us.

[Bedese]

Gutted  

[deltablue]

Great stuff against Partizan

[Bedese]

33 minutes ago, deltablue said:

Great stuff against Partizan

Thanks Delta  

[Bedese]

Devastating. We just didn't turn up for the first 30 minutes, and we were 3 down with us being lucky it was only 3. We clawed two back but just couldn't find that third goalm and we're almost certainly now not going to the Euro Playoff.

[Bedese]

If Ireland qualify for the Euros themselves, we might take their spot in the Playoff? I'm not sure if it'd be us or Moldova, and I don't think Ireland will qualify anyway, but it's the best shot I have.

[BoxToBox]

What's Ireland's situation like in the qualifiers? Are they even a decent team now?

[Bedese]

No points this year, but we did run some teams close.

[Bedese]

34 minutes ago, BoxToBox said:

What's Ireland's situation like in the qualifiers? Are they even a decent team now?

The groups have just been drawn, and here's theirs:

 

Absolutely brutal  I don't see any chance they go through. They're not bad right now, but they're not great. They've made the last two Euros (and came bottom each time), but those were a lot easier qualifying groups. They're 88th in the world and 33rd in Europe, so the chances of them qualifying aren't great.

 

Actually, I've just checked, and both times they qualified were through winning the Playoff after the Nations League. I think our chances are pretty much 0.

[BoxToBox]

Just now, Jupjamie said:

The groups have just been drawn, and here's theirs:

 

Absolutely brutal  I don't see any chance they go through. They're not bad right now, but they're not great. They've made the last two Euros (and came bottom each time), but those were a lot easier qualifying groups. They're 88th in the world and 33rd in Europe, so the chances of them qualifying aren't great.

 

Actually, I've just checked, and both times they qualified were through winning the Playoff after the Nations League. I think our chances are pretty much 0.

Aye, looks like you're well out of luck with that group.

[Bedese]

Youth Intake Day!

He's pretty bad at CB, but I'm desperate, so he's going there and not LB.

[BoxToBox]

Hmm, good work rate, maybe he can do a Mascherano style job at CB for you.

[Bedese]

Season Review!

 

Campionato Sammarinese:

Table

Schedule

Virtus proved a tough nut to crack, but we managed to get past them to lift the title.

Coppa Titano:

Table

Schedule

Yay.

Squad

Key Players:

 

Highest Average Rating:
Emanuele Di Bari (YP102) - 7.60

He's a pretty good winger.

Top Goalscorer:

Marco Casoli (YP97) - 33

He's developed into a really, really good striker.

Manager's Player of the Year:

Gabriele Rondelli (YP94)

The hero.

Aims for Next Season:

 

I doubt we'll make the Europa Groups three years running, so I'll just hope for a damn CB in an intake.

Other teams:

League winners:

Cup winners:

 

How the team in CL Qualifying did: We lost to Midtylland in the Playoff.

How the teams in Europa Qualifying did: We got nil points in the group. Juvenes Dogana lost 5-0 to Cork from Ireland, Domagnano lost 5-0 to Rapid Wien and Cosmos lost 2-1 to Dila from Georgia.

 

San Marino National Team:

2066 Results --------------- 2067 Results

That loss to Azerbaijan really hurts  

Player Watch:

Andrea Montanari - He's now 30, and I think we've wasted our best chance at qualifying for a long time.

Ashley Turpin (YP88) - That's his best season yet for Boro.

[Bedese]

[Bedese]

Why is the league still falling?  

[Bedese]

Well, that's quite the testimonial  

[Bedese]

Again, I rested most of my starters for the second leg.

 

The worst possible draw  

[Bedese]

We're a long way off competing with them, but man is Marco Casoli (YP97) fun to watch. He's got a little pace, a little power, and a damn good shot.

[Bedese]

[Bedese]

[BoxToBox]

That was a kick in the grundies, alright, what a horrible draw.

[Bedese]

3 minutes ago, BoxToBox said:

That was a kick in the grundies, alright, what a horrible draw.

It happens. Time to move on and hope for better luck next year  

[BoxToBox]

Better luck and some kind of lanky lad you can throw in defence.

[Bedese]

Youth Intake Day!

I've decided to lower my standards for tags, so that's the only reason I'm tagging anyone this intake.

 

He could be a decent depth CM.

 

 

Good news: He's a CB. Bad news: He's small, he's slow, his mentals suck, his technicals aren't fantastic, he has an absolutely suicidal PPM, his personality is terrible and his haircut makes me want to punch him in the face.

 

It's still early, but it's really not looking like the HOYD's personality is having much - if any - impact on the players personalities. A fairly ambitious HOYD, and by far the most common personality outside of balanced is unambitious. Not great.

[The_Gato_In_Goal]

32 minutes ago, Jupjamie said:

He's small, he's slow, he has an absolutely suicidal PPM

I feel like this is going to be a reoccurring theme now.

[Bedese]

8 minutes ago, The_Gato_In_Goal said:

I feel like this is going to be a reoccurring theme now.

 

[BoxToBox]

5'11 at 16 isn't terrible, though, could hit 6'1, maybe 6'2 at a stretch....

[sherwinriga]

6 hours ago, Jupjamie said:

 

Well, since I'm back, I was amazed about heading better in the Euro Nations League, but sadly, they were tried on the losses to Celtic and bricking Everton. Of course, both Marco Dela Valle and Danny Clampin are now playing basketball in the alternate world, instead of joining politics. I hope I don't want to see wasted players to retire soon.

One question, seeing that there's no RWB players, did you manage the youth intakes going high as usual like Matteo Forcellini and Dario Guidone?

[Bedese]

8 hours ago, BoxToBox said:

5'11 at 16 isn't terrible, though, could hit 6'1, maybe 6'2 at a stretch....

He'll definitely get over 6'0, and his jumping and strength aren't horrible to be fair. It's just everything else  

[Bedese]

3 hours ago, sherwinriga said:

Well, since I'm back, I was amazed about heading better in the Euro Nations League, but sadly, they were tried on the losses to Celtic and bricking Everton. Of course, both Marco Dela Valle and Danny Clampin are now playing basketball in the alternate world, instead of joining politics. I hope I don't want to see wasted players to retire soon.

One question, seeing that there's no RWB players, did you manage the youth intakes going high as usual like Matteo Forcellini and Dario Guidone?

Sorry, Sherwin, I'm not sure what you're asking.

[Jimbokav1971]

18 hours ago, Jupjamie said:

Youth Intake Day!

Good news: He's a CB. Bad news: He's small, he's slow, his mentals suck, his technicals aren't fantastic, he has an absolutely suicidal PPM, his personality is terrible and his haircut makes me want to punch him in the face.

I don't think this bloke is "that" bad. 

1. Yes he has a negative personality, but it's also one that you are easily able to change. You don't have to make this guy more professional, (well ok you do but that's a separate problem), all you have to do is make him more determined, and I'm sure you have plenty of defenders able to do that. 

2. He's short, but he's not as short as the bloke who went on to be brilliant earlier in the thread. I would say that rather than a lack of jumping being an issue, (which is what a lack of height suggests), that the real issue is that not only is he really slow, his acceleration is also absolutely terrible.

3. Look at what he can do, (within his remit), and try and ignore what he can't do. 

Heading 10.

Marking 11.

Tackling 7. 

The first 2 are great for a 16yo and are especially great for a (SMR) 16yo. Tackling isn't great, but then again, if you look at his limitations, what is he likely to be doing? Is tackling on an equal footing with winning headers and making interceptions? No, it's absolutely not. 

Your average centre-half, (so I'm not talking about extremes of high or low lines here), will make many more interceptions and headers in a game than he will tackles, so tackling should therefore be classed as a less important attribute. If you don't believe me, (or you just want to look for yourself), go to your last game played and look at your player stats. Now look at your centre-backs and compare tackles, headers and interceptions. I would expect to see both interceptions and headers approx. 3x that of tackles, (very vague estimate by the way). 

So this tells me his technical's are better than good. He's got some ability to pass the ball, (which might just save you while you get rid of that PPM), but all in all I think that's not a bad start. 

Let's do physicals next because they are easier. If you had to pick just 2 for a centre-half, you would probably pick jumping and strength... ok. Let me re-word that. If "I" had to pick 2 physical attributes for a centre half I would pick jumping and strength.  They just happen to be your guys best physical attributes. Yes pace, (lack thereof), is an issue, but I can think of a great many slow centre-backs who are great. I can't think of many centre-backs who are great who are not at least decent in the air. You have a set number of attribute points and so far, (technicals and physicals), what attributes this player has is being used in the correct areas. 

Lastly we have Mentals. This is hard because by their very nature, new youth players often struggle with mentals more than other attributes. What would I like a centre-back to have? 

Anticipation, Bravery, Concentration, Decisions, Determination, Positioning, Teamwork.

It's almost as if we created a tick-list of his better mental attributes, (but missed off aggression), which can also be decent in the correct circumstances. 

8, 10, 10, 10, 4, 7, 13.

The 4 that stands out is determination, and if you can tutor that out of him then you basically have a short-cut to a decent determination figure, (so it can be ignored as a problem that you know is going to be resolved. 

Honestly, this bloke is slow, (the acceleration bothers me more than the pace), but that's about it. Everything else can be resolved quite easily. I don't read every post in your thread but I do look at every post regarding your Youth Intake and I honestly this this bloke will be decent for you. Not brilliant, but certainly decent. 

[Edit]

The other thing is that height in itself doesn't actually do anything. It's simply an indication as to where a players relative strengths, (or weaknesses), might lie. 

A tall player will generally be better at jumping/heading/strength than first touch/dribbling and pace, but it certainly doesn't mean he can't be quicker than he can jump. Nor does it mean that you can't have 6'4" great technique wingers. It's just an indication of relative ability. (Relative to their own attributes). It's good to look at, but some of my players that I assumed were small, (or tall), have actually turned out to be the opposite when I have taken the time to look. 

[Bedese]

Thank you Jimbo. Superb post 

 

Determination is a problem that every single one of our players has. Only one starter has 10+ determination (Emanuel De Bari (YP102).) The average is about 7. Any time someone comes in with high determination, they get dragged down by the squad's average determination and regress close to the mean. It's something I've only just started to try and fix by signing terrible youth prospects as long as they have high determination, and not signing ones with 2* PA (and bad starting stats) if their determination is poor. Hopefully, it'll have an effect soon. The squad's personality is highly ambitious, so it's just the determination that we need to fix.

[Jimbokav1971]

43 minutes ago, Jupjamie said:

Determination is a problem that every single one of our players has. Only one starter has 10+ determination (Emanuel De Bari (YP102).) The average is about 7. Any time someone comes in with high determination, they get dragged down by the squad's average determination and regress close to the mean. It's something I've only just started to try and fix by signing terrible youth prospects as long as they have high determination, and not signing ones with 2* PA (and bad starting stats) if their determination is poor. Hopefully, it'll have an effect soon. The squad's personality is highly ambitious, so it's just the determination that we need to fix.

That's a tough one and not something I have ever experienced before.

To be honest, although I like determination, I am always so fixated on Professionalism that nothing gets a look in. 

I have a squad of..... 112 players and if I rank them by CA, then I have to go down to the 34th player, (ranked by CA), before I come to a player with a single digit attribute for determination.

I have just looked at this now and lots of the players that have been out on loan for a considerable amount of time have single digit determination scores, but very few of those that have been trained personally by me year on year at the club. 

I suppose it's partly because although it's not a priority, I am still aware that determination might be an issue and I can either just stick them on a regime that includes training determination, or I can tutor them with more determined player. Obviously you don't have the option to tutor because it is a squad problem rather than an individual problem, but have you considered sticking players on training regimes that include determination?

Quote

I can't really put my finger on why, but Krissovic (2024) has immediately become one of my favourite players in the save. I've actually been training him as a Ramdeuter, (I have no intention of asking him to play as one for the record), in order to just get his attribute balance more how I want it

[

Edit] A perfect example of this was a recent post in my own thread where I discussed the training of one of the recent "Kriss" players.

I can't really put my finger on why, but Krissovic (2024) has immediately become one of my favourite players in the save. I've actually been training him as a Ramdeuter, (I have no intention of asking him to play as one for the record), in order to just get his attribute balance more how I want it

GK's. Neither of the GK regimes train Det.

DL & DR. Limited Full Back &Inverted Wing Back regimes both train Det. 

DC.  Sweeper, Libero, Central Defender, Limited Defender & Ball Playing Defender all train determination.

DM. Roaming Playmaker, Regista, Ball Winning Midfielder, Defensive Midfielder & Anchor Man all train determination.

MC. Roaming Playmaker, Box to Box Midfielder, Central Midfielder & Ball Winning Midfielder all train determination.

AMC. Shadow Striker is the only one that trains Det.

AML & AMR. Ramdeuter is the only one that trains Det. 

SC. Complete Forward, Advanced Forward, Tarnet Man &  Defensive Forward all train Det. 

I don't know this for a fact, (and I can't find the thread now), but I don't think that determination is a "weighted" attribute for players in so much as you can have it as high as you want and it still won't use up any of the CA of a player. (I REALLY am not positive about that though so please double check).

Were you aware that some of the regimes trained Det and others didn't?

Which do you tend to use? (Don't get caught up in thinking you have to train your player in the role or even the position that they play in).

Is this something you have considered? 

If this were happening to me I would immediately ban any training regime that didn't train Det, (for outfield players), and just hope that the Det attribute increases quicker than it evaporates as a result of squad pressure. 

What do you think?

Does anyone else know if Det is weighted? (It might be for some positions but not all).

[Bedese]

I think I may have found the thread, which suggests that determination has no impact on a player's overall CA.

 

I think that determination is a big deal for us - not because it impacts player development (because it seems to have little to no effect) but because it determines how hard your team will try even when losing. Considering we're losing a lot, high determination could be the difference between throwing the towel in and scoring a goal to put us back in a tie. 

You know what? I did know that some regimes trained determination and some didn't - I'd just never thought about putting a player on a regime to improve determination. I'd sort of brushed it off as a natural thing they either have or don't have, rather than something that I could consciously work on to improve.

I don't have a 'set' regime that I put each player on based on position - I train them on the regime that I think will help them personally the most, so some of my players have been training determination and some haven't. From the looks of things, judging by your absolutely superb list, it looks like roughly half of them have and half of them haven't. 

Seeing as determination is a big deal for our situation IMO, I agree with you. I'm going to be moving everyone over to a regime that trains determination to try and get the levels up. (I didn't know determination was weighted, btw - very interesting.)

[BoxToBox]

Yup, Determination is an attribute that isn't weighted so can be upped where possible without eating CA.

IIRC, Natural Fitness is too, but there's not much to gain there since it's so hard to train.