4321 Tactic Oxford to Prem Title in 6 Seasons

[knap]

4321 Attack tactic using LR & ML rather than 4141 AMR & AML

http://files.filefront.com/00V1106APTS4321+Totte8tac/;11956030;/fileinfo.html

[mister_C]

Knap what are the main differences between this last tactic and the original tactic ?

[knap]

Mentality, closing down, push up, quick, narrow, tight marking. Attacking keeping AI under pressure but a more defensive formation than 4141, so should work better with a mid table team rather than the very attacking 4141.

[mister_C]

Ok Knap I'll try it .

[Wijnand fens]

Knap,

is there a difference between counter attack tactic and the SUS tactic!!!! I can't see it.

so what is the difference?

[Moverman98]

I will give this tactic a try.

[Wijnand fens]

Knap can you give the link for the counter attack tactic and the SUS (against 4-2-4) tactic?

I think the links in post 285 for counter and SUS are the same.

[knap]

It's same tactic but SUS has "Man" at end indicating man marking on back 4, also FB runs are rarely.

[Wijnand fens]

It's same tactic but SUS has "Man" at end indicating man marking on back 4, also FB runs are rarely.

thanks mate

[wez007]

I been a member for a good fews year now and rarely post, only when the occasion calls for it.

I've been struggling wih my Leeds team in PL for the last half of the season and was starting to lose my rag, gave your tactic a go and woolah, ten game winning streak.

Top man, fantastic tactic that suits my team down to a tee

[Wijnand fens]

he knap,

with the 106 (standard) tactic, the first 2 seasons I won a lot, now I had a lot of draws, so I switch to counter tactic, I start with this tactic later in the game I switch to the SUS tactic, I'm winning games again.

PS I'm a Top team, cl en seria Winner (season 54 with Salernitana)

Why I had a lot of draws with the 106 tactic? I had a new striker, AMC(right) and new AMC (left) they are young (around 20 ) is that maybe the problem?

thanks

[knap]

Season 54 is that with same team Salernitana?

A change can be helpful and the tactics have only minor changes in set up so can be mixed and matched which gives a Plan B option, although sometimes you just get a clump of poor results.

[Wijnand fens]

Season 54 is that with same team Salernitana?

A change can be helpful and the tactics have only minor changes in set up so can be mixed and matched which gives a Plan B option, although sometimes you just get a clump of poor results.

Yes, 54 seasons with one club

See my special thread about this.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=43319

I change back to 106 tactic, I start with a 6 - 1 win

thanks for the tip

[knap]

Well done that's staying power.

My record with Spurs. The only Spurs players left were Bale and Gunter, the others retired so just did not feel like Spurs anymore. When playing in lower leagues try to get Spurs as Parent so can use players like Danny Rose.

[Moverman98]

The 107 is a very good tactic. Started as Bayern P16 W16 D0 L0

Here are the results

I only have made one change to the tactic. Against HSV I conceded a early goal so I moved the AMC to MC. Now im controlling more in midfield with 3 MCs.

Great tactic

[knap]

Moverman

If you carry on like that I will have to rename tactic!

[Wijnand fens]

The 107 is a very good tactic. Started as Bayern P16 W16 D0 L0

Here are the results

I only have made one change to the tactic. Against HSV I conceded a early goal so I moved the AMC to MC. Now im controlling more in midfield with 3 MCs.

Great tactic

???? the 107 tactic has 1 MC and 2 AMC, how is it possible to get 3 mc's (if you set one amc to mc)? or do I have the wrong tactic?

Or do you seth both AMC to MC?

[AcidBurn]

It must mean he moved both AMCs to MC.

[Moverman98]

Moverman

If you carry on like that I will have to rename tactic!

I think you will have to.

It must mean he moved both AMCs to MC.

Yeah I just moved the AMC to MC.

[YAMS]

Hey Knap,

Hard to know what to say really, been playing FM for ages and trying to get an attacking 4-1-4-1 shape to work where the lone striker is supported but the midfield strength isn't sacrificed and then I stumble across this absolute beauty.

I have tweaked a few things for my own likings but your basic shape and the very very very important back arrows on those two att centre mids remain. I've never seen a tactic like this that can cover roughly 80% of all game situations. You deserve huge credit for this tactic in my opinion.

Love this tactic, awesome stuff.

[knap]

YAMS

If you let me know tweaks I can try to incorporate in tactic.

Final MU table just using 4141 no other tactics or tweaking.

[mister_C]

YAMS

Tell us your improvements to this tactic (if you want of course ), we can make this tactic the best tactic for fm 2008 (i believe already is, but it can be more improved) .

[YAMS]

Knap/mister C,

First off i've slowed down the tempo and shortened the passing. Both are on 5 now. The best bit about the 4-1-4-1 was the control that a very good def mid player could bring to the match, playing this slower tempo allows this.

Width is up to 15, time wasting to 5 and def line to 8. I play this 4-3-2-1 as my normal formation with a 4-1-4-1 shape when needing to go more defensive.

Changed corner routines to my liking, dont use the cheat. Also altered full backs forward runs to occasional abd centre backs passing to mixed (10) rather than 5 for the rest of the team. Left and right mid are on attacking mentality (15) with forward runs on occasioanal, frd arrows remain. Att mids on attacking mentality (15) forward runs often.

Everything else is the same I think.

One thing I will say about this tactic is that you need the correctly skilled players for it to work. The single centre forward skills are very important. Strength, jumping, creativity and pace are a must as the ball has to be held up. I would throw in dribbling as a good skill as well, more important than finishing. No point in having high finishing and none of the other above skills as the guy will never create himself a chance.

So a strong, tall target striker is better than a pacy, small striker for certain. Although a combination of power and pace is ideal. Think Drogba or Berbatov in the modern game as examples.

Another important player is the def mid. This guy has to have tackling, passing, stamina, work rate and the very important decisions. He will be the quaterback, distributing the ball often.

Wingers need creativity, dribbling, passing and crossing, their roles are normal for any wide player.

The two att mids need passing, creativity, finishing and composure. These guys will get alot of chances if your centre forward is holding the ball up well. Pace is quite nice as well here but as you should 'control' the game more often than not passing and creativity are the more important skills.

Im doing alot more work on this formation Knap, currently running it with Weymouth in the Championship so as you can see im already punching above my weight. Firmly of the opinion that any formation will look great with the big clubs, its at this level that a tactic proves it worth.

Haven't a clue how to host tactics but i'll happily keep posting my mods to it to help development.

[knap]

YAMS

If you look at the 106pt tactic you will find these settings. The 107pt tactic is a style change for top teams to push up and dominate. The 106pt tactic works well in spells with long farrows as circumstances demand rather than a AMR and AML. However I can rerun test with your settings.

Can you let me know your corner set up and goals from corners. I use my FM07 set up on all tactics to test on a comparable basis and it only usually provides a good return from corners especially if you take into account the number of corners compared to AI.

Host files at Filefront (free) When you Browse for file go into the Documents SI Tactics directory.

Screensots is Alt F9 which opens a screenshot directory. Go to Image shack and link via Documents directory.

Can you also give a overview of Weymouth team.

I test with the old Spurs squad so Berbs is the TM, however tactic also works with Rooney as TM.

[mister_C]

Knap

Off-topic: Which is the best of the Kimz tactics for you ?

[Phille023]

Knap, first of all i love ur tactic. These are without a doubt the best i've used in FM2008.

I usually use the defend tactic with my Everton squad because that seems to work best so far and i'm currently first in the EPL. However I seem to have 1 problem, my strikers aren't scoring or performing as well as they should be. I've got Vaughan, Pazzini and Chamakh. They all seem to have trouble scoring goals and most of the time they have a rating of 6. Its a little frustrating to me because my other team members are performing verry good with 7 and lots of 8 and scoring goals but the striker seems to have trouble doing that... Any ideas what i could do or what i'm doing wrong here?

[knap]

Defend is a bit of an untested tactic so pleased its working for you. As you are top of EPL I would be loathe to change tactics at this stage but 106pt may be a better option.

With the strikers have you checked for any man management issues. I've used Stancu before and he felt pressure of leading line so maybe a bit of encouragement will help.

Is this 1st season?

[Phille023]

They don't have any issues that i know of its my 4th season now

[knap]

Long time since I've used defend but there are no fwd runs on FBs and MC which may give a supply and support issue if AI are now more defensive.

If you wish to keep deeper DL with Defend tactic, then increase FWD runs to normal for FBs and MC and if still using Long farrows, try short to give more control in middle of park.

[YAMS]

Hey knap,

Only downloaded your 1.1 I think, wasn't aware of the others. Corner wise I go far post and put my two centre halves on stand on far post. Centre Forward is stand by keeper or whatever its called.

I'll look into putting some stuff up when i've played a little more. Incidentlly im on FM2007. Not sure that matters too much although some of you may say it's easier? Im not sure, never got into 2008 and I have loads of pretty graphics (And I mean loads.....) built into 2007, would have been shame to lose them.

[knap]

YAMS

Post 285 for main set. A bonus if they work on FM07 as well.

Phille

The defend tactic works fine but I will try a few tweaks. You could try forward with Fwd runs often and rwb often as this tweak tends to work with Torres.

[tarkovsky]

Why would you want to use Geniescout? Doesn't it ruin the game?

If only Joe Kinnear and Ramos had it, they wouldn't be in the ****.

[zaq12]

hi knap,

i'm currently using your 106pts4321 with my Spurs squad.

I've looked your fantastic result with Spurs.

i'm currently 5th with good win on MU at home but away seem to have some problem to score.

hereafter you'll find my team:

gk-robinson

lb-bale

rb-hutton

cb-woodgate

cb-kaboul

lc-gilberto

rc-jenas

mc-zokora

amcleft-boateng

amcright-van den vaart

fc-berbatov

please could you give me some advise?

maybe my player are not right for this tactic?

[knap]

Zag

You need a few players to fill in gaps but if away form poor, try 102pt counter attack for difficult away games or change if under pressure during a match.

gk-robinson

lb-bale

rb-hutton

cb-

cb-

lc-

rc-

mc-

amcleft-

amcright-van den vaart

fc-berbatov

The obvious players are

Samba (covers RB as well)

King ? Woodgate backup

Eduardo (Botafogo) a must LB/DM/LC/AM/ML

Barnes

Fernandez

Asharvin

Guilherme AM/FC

Otherwise it will be a mid table team (if only) so 5th would be a good position.

[zaq12]

thanks knap for youa advice.

i use king but actually is injured.

please could you explain better how do you perform your holiday test?

do you set up the best formation and tick "use the same tactic" and "use the same formation"?

also is it possible to see some screenshot from your Spurs 9 titles's consecutive?

thanks for your help.

[knap]

This was probably the best team

Lloris

Richards

Breno

Sakho

Bale

Veloso

VDBorre

VDVaart

Guilherme

Fernandez

Berbs

[zaq12]

please could tell me on "the best 11" the exact position for each player?

i mean ,for example do you use guillerme as FC or amc?

thanks

[Che1974]

I was using kimz tactic for a while, it is a monster with great players, but with good to average players it is very erratic, and you concede a lot of goals. I have taken in interest in knap's work as he used kimz tactic as a base, and used the mentality and creative freedom ideas.

Now, i started an umemployed career running Argentina, England, Spain and Italy leagues.

I got a job with Belgrano in the Argentine 2nd division, and went unbeaten for a whole season finishing top, using knap's 106 and 107 tactics. However i must point out my team was fairly decent and predicted to finish high is the league. I then was offered the job of Estudanties, who were predicted to finish 7th.

I continued with the tactics as before but found many games i was failing to create chances. So i decided to make my own tweaked versions of knap's very good tactic, and since then i have won the league twice, went unbeaten for a whole season and won the copa suda america (I think its called that) and i was robbed in the copa libatadores semi final agains't America MEX.

The tactics are good, i built up some good records including; 42 games unbeaten and 8 clean sheets in a row, which for FM 08 i think is pretty good.

There are 3 versions home, away and shut up shop. only use SUS with 15 minutes left maximum, i have found it very effective at stopping the AI and i nearly always nick another goal.

If anyone wants to try these, tweaks, i will be testing them further, as i have now quit my post at Estudanties, i have a World Class reputation so i am waiting for a job offer form Europe so i will report back. I don't really now how to upload tactics so a little help if anyone is interested.

Just felt i had to give props to knap and also share my success, because i have been looking for a consistant tactic for months, without success, but i feel these tweaked knap tactics are making FM very enjoyable for me at the moment.

Cheers knap.

[AcidBurn]

I found Guilherme plays just average as an AMC not had time to give him a go at FC as my two other strikers are better than him.

[Zigi]

I was using kimz tactic for a while, it is a monster with great players, but with good to average players it is very erratic, and you concede a lot of goals. I have taken in interest in knap's work as he used kimz tactic as a base, and used the mentality and creative freedom ideas.

Now, i started an umemployed career running Argentina, England, Spain and Italy leagues.

I got a job with Belgrano in the Argentine 2nd division, and went unbeaten for a whole season finishing top, using knap's 106 and 107 tactics. However i must point out my team was fairly decent and predicted to finish high is the league. I then was offered the job of Estudanties, who were predicted to finish 7th.

I continued with the tactics as before but found many games i was failing to create chances. So i decided to make my own tweaked versions of knap's very good tactic, and since then i have won the league twice, went unbeaten for a whole season and won the copa suda america (I think its called that) and i was robbed in the copa libatadores semi final agains't America MEX.

The tactics are good, i built up some good records including; 42 games unbeaten and 8 clean sheets in a row, which for FM 08 i think is pretty good.

There are 3 versions home, away and shut up shop. only use SUS with 15 minutes left maximum, i have found it very effective at stopping the AI and i nearly always nick another goal.

If anyone wants to try these, tweaks, i will be testing them further, as i have now quit my post at Estudanties, i have a World Class reputation so i am waiting for a job offer form Europe so i will report back. I don't really now how to upload tactics so a little help if anyone is interested.

Just felt i had to give props to knap and also share my success, because i have been looking for a consistant tactic for months, without success, but i feel these tweaked knap tactics are making FM very enjoyable for me at the moment.

Cheers knap.

Che1974. If you want to share your tweaked tactics with us just upload them on sendspace or filefront ( tac you find on my documents/sports interactive/ football manager 2008/ tactics but previous you have to save tac in your game ).

cheers

[mister_C]

Che1974

May you upload your Knap tweaked tactics for us ? Just go to google and search for rapidshare then upload the tactics file and post the link here in the forum if you want of course .

[zaq12]

hi Knap,

i've just bought some players.

M.fernandez,VDV,eduardo,samba,guillerme and sakho but still remain some problem especially away.

At home i've played 5 with 4 win and 1 drew but away in 5 games no win and 5 lose.

I've tried your counter tactic bust without result.

please i need some help.

thanks

[AcidBurn]

Had alot of success in my current Sunderland game only 2 defeats in the league in 2 seasons. I want to play with two upfront so I am going to give that tactic a try but I have changed the farrows on the CMs to go to AMR and AML instead of all the way up. Will let you know how I get on.

[Che1974]

I will try and upload them when i get home. I want to test them further just to make sure they were not a fluke because i have had so many tactical false dawns. But a key factor for the tactics to work is keeping players moral high and team talks. If you mess either of those up no tactics can save you and i don't think everyone quite understands that it is really crucial.

[johaN']

Hey.

Just have one question.

Do you think your tactic's work on the original game. With no patch?

johaN'

[knap]

zag

Check your PM. These are home and away results from holiday season. Away form is not as good as home as expected

johaN

No idea as only tested on 8.0.2 but if it works on FM07 a good chance it will work as the basic formation is very stable.

AcidBurn

I do have a 442 with 2 AMCs barrowed if you wish to test.

[knap]

I've not live tested but this is a 442 variation

http://files.filefront.com/Knap96PTS442+Tottenh8tac/;11992311;/fileinfo.html

[mister_C]

Knap what tactic did you use to get 106 points with the Spurs in the image you've posted ?

[knap]

The 106pt tactic.

This is an untested 3CB 2ST tactic I set up with Rob.

http://files.filefront.com/RobKnap323299PTS+8tac/;11992522;/fileinfo.html

[knap]

Arsenal live testing using 107tactic, again away form is not a good as home