The SI Sports Centre - DISCUSSION THREAD

[Cleon]

How do you guys decide when to pause the game? Just randomly or after certain events occur, like losing/winning possession?

I've tried this and it has helped me understand how my team is playing better but most of the time when I pause, I do not see anything significant and I think it maybe because I am pausing the game randomly.

I pause the game when the opposition attacks so I can my players positions and see any possible gaps that might cause a big issue. I pause it when attacking so I can see my players movements and see if the opposition has any flaws I could exploit, i.e space behind fullbacks etc. And I also pause it randomly just to assess everything and see if I can notice anything.

I'll also pause it for certain events like losing possession or if an opponent seems to be attacking a particular style or way. Pausing it during evenets or rewinding just after the event as finished can tell you a lot of how the move happened to begin with.

[Cleon]

I do use lots of them at the same time but i didnt group them, as i prefer to just add them during the match one by one. I still dont watch 3d highlights, i prefer those tiny circles

Edit:

Nice way to beat league leaders

Impressive you seem to know where the goal is. I'm taking it you're finding the EPL quite easy?

[aderow]

Did you win the game? Don't tell me you actually got a result?

Won it 3-1

My new signing Clint Dempsey came on and scored the third

[Cleon]

Won it 3-1

My new signing Clint Dempsey came on and scored the third

No way?!!!!

[Gee_Simpson]

How fast do you guys set the highlight speed slider when watching a match?

[Cleon]

How fast do you guys set the highlight speed slider when watching a match?

When watching only a highlight? Or the actual match? I have the slider on full for highlights but when watching a game only on half way up.

[jojko]

can you upload for me your tactic and trening from your save game?

[Cleon]

can you upload for me your tactic and trening from your save game?

No the tactic is already in the main thread and I've also already posted training schedules I used. I've told you this 4 times already throughout this forum. How about actually reading the thread?

[aderow]

No way?!!!!

He's not played as much as I would have wanted him to, due to in form players, but his 3 goals he's scored for me have all been screamers

Another thing I want to say actually has to do with another issue that I faced recently; making too many changes too quickly.

When Fulham equalised at the beginning of the second half, I grew impatient with the way my players were playing and decided to try and get them to force the issue a bit more. Before I was done making changes, we had already regained the lead.

If I had made those changes earlier, who knows what effect that could have had on my players.

[Cleon]

He's not played as much as I would have wanted him to, due to in form players, but his 3 goals he's scored for me have all been screamers

Another thing I want to say actually has to do with another issue that I faced recently; making too many changes too quickly.

When Fulham equalised at the beginning of the second half, I grew impatient with the way my players were playing and decided to try and get them to force the issue a bit more. Before I was done making changes, we had already regained the lead.

If I had made those changes earlier, who knows what effect that could have had on my players.

Yeah changing too much can be bad. As can changing things when you don't really need to. It's hard to keep an eye on how you are playing and judging if its just bad luck you've gone behind or whether it's down to tactics. I normally give it 10 mins before changing anything though, I don't do kneejerk reactions.

[Gee_Simpson]

When watching only a highlight? Or the actual match? I have the slider on full for highlights but when watching a game only on half way up.

Yeah that's what I meant, cheers.

P.S. How the hell can you see whats happening when the slider is set to full in highlights? Surely it's too fast?

[Cleon]

Yeah that's what I meant, cheers.

P.S. How the hell can you see whats happening when the slider is set to full in highlights? Surely it's too fast?

Not really, plus I don't really need to pay attention to the highlight. I do but I can just pause it if needed on view it back.

[Cleon]

Why, why, why do I carry on when I say I'm quitting. Curiosity got the better of me and I decided to go back to the Swansea save and see how I can do in Europe. I've had nowt but bloody injuries all season to the players I brought in, in the summer . Still doing well but need to win the last group game to advance, now I've got to really focus and concentrate:D

[Karnage94]

The problems of having a small squad (or a squad lacking quality in depth) and a lot of games in a season. If you can get into the knockout rounds then that's a fine achievement in itself

[Guevara]

Hello Cleon.

I never really bothered to use shouts. How vital are they? Am i missing out on alot by not using them? And when do you use them? Do you got like a couple of standard you instantly use when you start a game? Or do you analyze and then put shouts out accordingly?

Lets say i'm using your tactic, when should i use these shouts? Also thank you very much for you're work.

Looking at you're post about 'em now but as i have never used them i feel pretty clueless... Where to start?

Also i wonder, how much of a performance decrease is it that the tactic for instance is only 50-60% fluid in all areas?

[Cleon]

The problems of having a small squad (or a squad lacking quality in depth) and a lot of games in a season. If you can get into the knockout rounds then that's a fine achievement in itself

That's what got me curious, the small budget and small team. I knew it would be a challenge but I was avoiding it as I wanted to play 'casual' for a while. Looks like that lasted about 2 games before I loaded the Swansea one to carry it on haha. I liked the challenge of the obstacles in my way

[Cleon]

Hello Cleon.

I never really bothered to use shouts. How vital are they? Am i missing out on alot by not using them? And when do you use them? Do you got like a couple of standard you instantly use when you start a game? Or do you analyze and then put shouts out accordingly?

Lets say i'm using your tactic, when should i use these shouts? Also thank you very much for you're work.

Looking at you're post about 'em now but as i have never used them i feel pretty clueless... Where to start?

Also i wonder, how much of a performance decrease is it that the tactic for instance is only 50-60% fluid in all areas?

Well if you've read the 'First 15 minutes' bit of the thread then you'd see how I set up.

As for the shouts, well you use them when you need to. If you read through them and familiarise yourself with them, then you'll know what situations you can use them in. Then when you face certain formations or in certain scenarios then you'll use them to your advantage (hopefully).

If you use the TC and don't use shouts then you're only playing the game 50% of what's available for you tactically wise.

[Karnage94]

That's what got me curious, the small budget and small team. I knew it would be a challenge but I was avoiding it as I wanted to play 'casual' for a while. Looks like that lasted about 2 games before I loaded the Swansea one to carry it on haha. I liked the challenge of the obstacles in my way

I have a Man United save kicking about. I've only got half way through the second season on that because I just get bored of how easy it is. I know I won't stop the Tenerife game until winning gets boring. That'll be a while yet because of the horrible amount of money that gets brought into the club, therefore a restriction on the players I can bring in (usually free transfers). Getting into the Champions League would be a massive help to finances. I think I'm right in saying you get around £6million just for getting into the group stage. That would be comfortably more than what the club makes over the entire year. So for now, each game is a bit tricky. I like the challenge but I still want it to be fun and a game.

[Guevara]

Yeah i understand that fact. But how game breaking can they be? I have had some very decent results without using them at all. E.g winning the prem with Swansea (like yourself) and taken them to the quarter finals in the Champions League the second season.

But are they that vital that they can totally change a match?

[Cleon]

I have a Man United save kicking about. I've only got half way through the second season on that because I just get bored of how easy it is. I know I won't stop the Tenerife game until winning gets boring. That'll be a while yet because of the horrible amount of money that gets brought into the club, therefore a restriction on the players I can bring in (usually free transfers). Getting into the Champions League would be a massive help to finances. I think I'm right in saying you get around £6million just for getting into the group stage. That would be comfortably more than what the club makes over the entire year. So for now, each game is a bit tricky. I like the challenge but I still want it to be fun and a game.

I think I got between £6.5 - £8.5 million for getting into the group stages. The you get money for wins and draws too. It's helped my finances massivley and allowed me £31 mill for transfers. Spent that on like 3 players though. Which isn't much when you need a new full team haha.

I'm bored of playing 4-1-2-2-1 though, I want to change to something more interesting. Might mix it up half way through season no idea to what though.

[Cleon]

Yeah i understand that fact. But how game breaking can they be? I have had some very decent results without using them at all. E.g winning the prem with Swansea (like yourself) and taken them to the quarter finals in the Champions League the second season.

But are they that vital that they can totally change a match?

They can be the difference between winning and losing.

Put it this way, they'll be the reason I win the Champions League this season;)

[Guevara]

Haha that would be a VERY impressive feat! Genuinly best of luck!!

Also guys, what do you find the most effective corner set up? Personally i have basicly been hammering in goals by having a target man set to receive balls on foot, and corners to near post. If your striker then is pacey and has good acceleration he very often get first on the ball. (cause the corner will then be aimed at his feet) He then simply takes the ball down and hammers it in the back of the net.

[Cleon]

I leave corners default as I don't want to find a routine that spoils the fun of the game or makes the amount you score unrealistic.

[Karnage94]

I think I got between £6.5 - £8.5 million for getting into the group stages. The you get money for wins and draws too. It's helped my finances massivley and allowed me £31 mill for transfers. Spent that on like 3 players though. Which isn't much when you need a new full team haha.

I'm bored of playing 4-1-2-2-1 though, I want to change to something more interesting. Might mix it up half way through season no idea to what though.

Oooh. Money . That sounds like a potential title push amount of money there I'd love to see a 3-4-1-2 if that gives you any ideas. Or a 4-3-1-2. Either way, something that feels a bit... Italian. No idea why but would like to see something like that. I won't faff about with my save until I have all set up the way I want

[Coentrao]

Coming a bit late but i didn't know that the conditioning schedules made such a big difference, they get to 100% match fitness in only 3 or 4 friendlies while with normal schedules it took them 7 or 8 friendlies and i'm only playing them 45 minutes each half.

[Cleon]

Coming a bit late but i didn't know that the conditioning schedules made such a big difference, they get to 100% match fitness in only 3 or 4 friendlies while with normal schedules it took them 7 or 8 friendlies and i'm only playing them 45 minutes each half.

Yups

It also puts them in better standing towards the end of the season. You tend to get less injuries overall and players stay fitter longer once the season starts.

[Guevara]

Looking at your Swansea save now Cleon, and it look really good. But you got two pretty (in my eyes) clear defeats versus Liverpool. Coincidence, or do you struggle versus them?

[Cleon]

Looking at your Swansea save now Cleon, and it look really good. But you got two pretty (in my eyes) clear defeats versus Liverpool. Coincidence, or do you struggle versus them?

1 was cup and was half first team and half reserves.

The league one wasn't a clear defeat as such as they had quite a few long range efforts. But that was just bad luck on this day as I couldn't sub the tired players as the bench was full of tired players. I'd just entered April and to be at the top all season was taking it's toll on the team as a whole. Especially as I tried to play the same 11.

[mitjamvp]

Impressive you seem to know where the goal is. I'm taking it you're finding the EPL quite easy?

well its easier mostly because of your help

Another thing is that premiership is by far better league then german but teams rarely use Inside forwards to their full potential. I cant say i have seen a player to perform as good as Gotze or Shurrle in any english team. Marking opponents IFs always seems to be the hardest task even if they are slow. One missed tackle and defence is in trouble.

[tomtuck01]

I leave corners default as I don't want to find a routine that spoils the fun of the game or makes the amount you score unrealistic.

You could just play them short like I do? It doesn't bring alot of goals/too few goals, just means you keep some times the ball, and some times it is put in the box once it is played short. Goals either come or they don't - just like with real life real corners I suppose.

By the way, like your bit on the use of "Shouts". Only recently started using them myself and my god do they make a difference.

[Cleon]

well its easier mostly because of your help

Another thing is that premiership is by far better league then german but teams rarely use Inside forwards to their full potential. I cant say i have seen a player to perform as good as Gotze or Shurrle in any english team. Marking opponents IFs always seems to be the hardest task even if they are slow. One missed tackle and defence is in trouble.

Yeah I noticed this a while back. Only Man Utd really use them and Man City with the 4231 wide and the narrow 4231 that City use. I'm not a fan of managing in England, I prefer the continent where teams are more broad in their use of other formations. It's why I love Brazil.

[Cleon]

You could just play them short like I do? It doesn't bring alot of goals/too few goals, just means you keep some times the ball, and some times it is put in the box once it is played short. Goals either come or they don't - just like with real life real corners I suppose.

By the way, like your bit on the use of "Shouts". Only recently started using them myself and my god do they make a difference.

I've not really thought of playing them short, be a great way of keeping possession though and rebuilding a slow attack. Cheers for the tip, I'll try it out

Not used to people giving me ideas so cheers

Which shouts have you been using Tom? Is this in your Swansea game?

[Gee_Simpson]

Yups

It also puts them in better standing towards the end of the season. You tend to get less injuries overall and players stay fitter longer once the season starts.

Is this with the default Conditioning schedules yeah? Do you use these now for pre season instead of a custom pre season schedule?

[tomtuck01]

I've not really thought of playing them short, be a great way of keeping possession though and rebuilding a slow attack. Cheers for the tip, I'll try it out

Not used to people giving me ideas so cheers

Which shouts have you been using Tom? Is this in your Swansea game?

Haha no problems.

I have a man set to "Lurk outside Area", and if he recieves the ball he will sometimes shoot, look for an opening for a pass into the box, or retain possession by passing backwards/square. Sometimes the man who gets it short shuffles about a bit not knowing what to do, which although annoying at times, is actually quite effective late on in a game if you're wanting to time waste.

As for my shouts I've got two sets, erm, set up;

Defensive - Push Higher Up, Stay On Feet, Hassle Opponents

I use this group if I'm under a bit more pressure. Although with Swansea I've made great strides, against the bigger sides away from home I still concede possession a fair bit, and this group of shouts work quite well. It closes down space, gets amongst the opposition, and of course makes sure the players don't dive into challenges.

Attacking - Play Out Of Defence, Drop Deeper, Pass Into Space, Work Ball Into Box, Retain Possession

A very Barcelona type of grouping I like to think. When I'm on top it slows things down and ensures the team probe for an opening, which, although it goes against the other three shouts in the group, comes from the "Pass Ball Into Space" instruction. It means that when the opportunity arises, the tempo is quickened in a flash by a through ball/forward run by a man off the ball.

--------------

For all I know my thinking behind the shouts could be completely wrong - I mean they are still relatively new to me and I've learnt by trial and error rather than reaing stuff on the forum. But they seem to be working!

[Guevara]

Started a new Swansea game since my previous was on a now (sadly) destroyed computer. Used many of you're principles but created my own tactic, also started getting used to using shouts in the training games. Tactic is not fluid yet, so i suspect my performances will vary greatly.

However just opened the league and meet with Blackburn first game. Uten a very offensive setup of shouts throughout the match and ended up hammering them 6-1! With Gylfi playing absolutly sensational! Lets hope this last!

[dribbler]

thanks for everything you did on shouts Cleon

[Cleon]

Is this with the default Conditioning schedules yeah? Do you use these now for pre season instead of a custom pre season schedule?

Most of the time yeah that's all I use in pre season until every single player is match fit.

[Cleon]

Haha no problems.

I have a man set to "Lurk outside Area", and if he recieves the ball he will sometimes shoot, look for an opening for a pass into the box, or retain possession by passing backwards/square. Sometimes the man who gets it short shuffles about a bit not knowing what to do, which although annoying at times, is actually quite effective late on in a game if you're wanting to time waste.

I've just had a play around with something simliar. I noticed that the AI then begin to close down heavily to try and win the ball back. I only used it for 1 game but my players had a lot of space on the ball and with the right player he could be dangerous doing this. Especially if he has the ability to pick out an accurate pass.

As for my shouts I've got two sets, erm, set up;

Defensive - Push Higher Up, Stay On Feet, Hassle Opponents

I use this group if I'm under a bit more pressure. Although with Swansea I've made great strides, against the bigger sides away from home I still concede possession a fair bit, and this group of shouts work quite well. It closes down space, gets amongst the opposition, and of course makes sure the players don't dive into challenges.

Attacking - Drop Deeper, Pass Into Space, Work Ball Into Box, Retain Possession

A very Barcelona type of grouping I like to think. When I'm on top it slows things down and ensures the team probe for an opening, which, although it goes against the other three shouts in the group, comes from the "Pass Ball Into Space" instruction. It means that when the opportunity arises, the tempo is quickened in a flash by a through ball/forward run by a man off the ball.

--------------

For all I know my thinking behind the shouts could be completely wrong - I mean they are still relatively new to me and I've learnt by trial and error rather than reaing stuff on the forum. But they seem to be working!

I like your shouts as you've done something that isn't considered the 'normal approach' with them. You've tailored them to suit what you want to get out of the match which is great. Judging by these 2 shouts and the reasonings behind why you use them, I'd say you understand full well how the shouts work and how to use them to gain an advantage in certain scenarios.

Trial and error is the way you learn the most as you know what to rule out and find your own way of dealing with things, which you seem to have done a good job of so far

[Cleon]

Started a new Swansea game since my previous was on a now (sadly) destroyed computer. Used many of you're principles but created my own tactic, also started getting used to using shouts in the training games. Tactic is not fluid yet, so i suspect my performances will vary greatly.

However just opened the league and meet with Blackburn first game. Uten a very offensive setup of shouts throughout the match and ended up hammering them 6-1! With Gylfi playing absolutly sensational! Lets hope this last!

What tactics you using?

thanks for everything you did on shouts Cleon

No worries

[Fabian Jonsson]

I too have decided to abandon the SFraser type system were player instructions are dead set, and only team "shape related" instructions are changed during match, to a system with default roles that are managed via shouts. I decided to make this rather radical change mid-season and I've played 8 games like this so far. The first two games were against Arsenal and City and resulted in a 1-1 draw and a 1-0 loss, then I proceeded to win 5 games in a row comfortably (3-0 or better). Beeing me, I got really cocky and started to make plans to take over the world, only to loose at home to a 10-man Everton. Due to an early red card, they fielded some pretty silly formations like a 5-2-2 with two rather attacking MCs and a 4-3-2 with 3 attacking MCs. Yet somehow I failed miserably to exploit the oceans of space they left me. No matter how I changed things, I couldn't get my team to retain possession for any amount of time. Everton killed me with aggressive and well-timed challanges, and when I tried a more direct, fast, passing style, my players passed the ball straight to the opposition.

Sooo, I guess there's a learning curve to it...

[Cleon]

I too have decided to abandon the SFraser type system were player instructions are dead set, and only team "shape related" instructions are changed during match, to a system with default roles that are managed via shouts. I decided to make this rather radical change mid-season and I've played 8 games like this so far. The first two games were against Arsenal and City and resulted in a 1-1 draw and a 1-0 loss, then I proceeded to win 5 games in a row comfortably (3-0 or better). Beeing me, I got really cocky and started to make plans to take over the world, only to loose at home to a 10-man Everton. Due to an early red card, they fielded some pretty silly formations like a 5-2-2 with two rather attacking MCs and a 4-3-2 with 3 attacking MCs. Yet somehow I failed miserably to exploit the oceans of space they left me. No matter how I changed things, I couldn't get my team to retain possession for any amount of time. Everton killed me with aggressive and well-timed challanges, and when I tried a more direct, fast, passing style, my players passed the ball straight to the opposition.

Sooo, I guess there's a learning curve to it...

It's always hard switching formation mid season as it wont be fluid yet in all areas will it?

What shouts did you use? Did you try pushing higher up to apply more pressure on Everton and foce them back a little?

[Fabian Jonsson]

It's always hard switching formation mid season as it wont be fluid yet in all areas will it?

What shouts did you use? Did you try pushing higher up to apply more pressure on Everton and foce them back a little?

I didn't switch formation, I "only" changed some team instructions and all roles and duties for the entire team (and unticked all ticked boxes)...

Yes, I tried push higher up and it restricted Evertons attacks a little, but it also congested the play even further, allowing them to pressure my players even more.

When I find the time, I'll go back and rewatch the game a see if I can learn something from it. Right when the game was over, I wasn't in the mood for learning...

[Cleon]

I didn't switch formation, I "only" changed some team instructions and all roles and duties for the entire team (and unticked all ticked boxes)...

Yes, I tried push higher up, and it restricted Evertons attacks a little, but it also congested the play even further, allowing them to pressure my players even more.

When I find the time, I'll go back and rewatch the game a see if I can learn something from it. Right when the game was over, I wasn't in the mood for learning...

It'll still not be fluid anymore though due to changing team instructions

What was congested just the middle?

[Fabian Jonsson]

Well, I play a "control" strategy, and they hade a pretty high d-line too, so the "playing area" became rather small. I was rather focused on getting my central midfield to better exploit the space behind their attacking MCs, but maybe in hindsight I should've focused more on hitting through-balls passed their high d-line...?

[Cleon]

Well, I play a "control" strategy, and they hade a pretty high d-line too, so the "playing area" became rather small. I was rather focused on getting my central midfield to better exploit the space behind their attacking MCs, but maybe in hindsight I should've focused more on hitting through-balls passed their high d-line...?

Well I'm guessing they didn't use wide players on the wings? I'd have focused play down the wings rather than try and go through the midfield when it was congested.

[Fabian Jonsson]

Well I'm guessing they didn't use wide players on the wings? I'd have focused play down the wings rather than try and go through the midfield when it was congested.

Maybe, I had "play wider" on for quite a while, but I still struggled. Will look into it more carefully tomorrow.

All-in-all though, relying more on shouts than before have resulted in a big change in how carefully I study the game, and also in how much control I percieve I have. With time, this will for sure improve my ability to respond to in-game events.

[Cleon]

Maybe, I had "play wider" on for quite a while, but I still struggled. Will look into it more carefully tomorrow.

All-in-all though, relying more on shouts than before have resulted in a big change in how carefully I study the game, and also in how much control I percieve I have. With time, this will for sure improve my ability to respond to in-game events.

Yeah it does make it a lot easier and simpler to respond to in game events with the use of shouts. You're also right about with time. It'll all fall in place the more and more you use them. You might still lose a few like the Everton game but atleast you'll know what worked and what didn't for future games.

Be sure to make notes about the Everton game though in game. And if it happens again you'll have something to look back on with what you tried and what worked and what didn't

[Gee_Simpson]

Most of the time yeah that's all I use in pre season until every single player is match fit.

Ok, thanks

[tomtuck01]

I've just had a play around with something simliar. I noticed that the AI then begin to close down heavily to try and win the ball back. I only used it for 1 game but my players had a lot of space on the ball and with the right player he could be dangerous doing this. Especially if he has the ability to pick out an accurate pass.

I quite agree. Hence why I have my Trequarista, Sergio Canales, (yes he's playing massively out of position), as my man outside the box. His eye for a pass is excellent.

I like your shouts as you've done something that isn't considered the 'normal approach' with them. You've tailored them to suit what you want to get out of the match which is great. Judging by these 2 shouts and the reasonings behind why you use them, I'd say you understand full well how the shouts work and how to use them to gain an advantage in certain scenarios.

I have absolutely no idea, in terms of shouts, what would be considered to be "normal". Like you say, I just designed them to suit my team and the style I use.

Trial and error is the way you learn the most as you know what to rule out and find your own way of dealing with things, which you seem to have done a good job of so far

Exactly. I much prefer to do that on FM than some users who come to the forums begging for tactics to download so that they can have a quick fix. They might start winning, but have no understanding of what to do if/when they hit a bad spell.

[Cleon]

I quite agree. Hence why I have my Trequarista, Sergio Canales, (yes he's playing massively out of position), as my man outside the box. His eye for a pass is excellent.

I have absolutely no idea, in terms of shouts, what would be considered to be "normal". Like you say, I just designed them to suit my team and the style I use.

Exactly. I much prefer to do that on FM than some users who come to the forums begging for tactics to download so that they can have a quick fix. They might start winning, but have no understanding of what to do if/when they hit a bad spell.

That's one of the reasons I don't always give a direct answer. I normally answer a question with a question of my own to get them to think about what they are doing and try to understand why it works or wont work.

What formation are you using now tom? still the same one?