ruudvanwarren Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 The tactic does incorporate the corner routine (just like all good tactics that are around at the moment) but I have to say that the FC plays like the ultimate poacher! U can't just score that many goals from simply heading in corners! The right & left fullbacks chip in with a lot of assists too, they are set to cross from deep & they whip the ball into the box constantly! What screenshots do u want to see mate? Yeah the AMC get well involved too! When I took over at united they had Pastore & I bought James Rodriguez too both perform fantastically! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyrh94 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 It looks good on paper just not 100% sure that nani & young would work in them pisitions! I'm not at all saying they won't it just i'v only used strikers in them positions! They do play like wingers though so u should get a fair amount of assists from them!Saying that ur main source for goals is without any shadow of any doubt is ur central striker! I see, what is your team line-up? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruudvanwarren Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I'm not home at the mo so I'll post some screenshots later but my starting line up is: De gea Rafael/Srna - smalling/vidic jones/Wilson - kadlec/Robinson Obi mikel/regen Wistel/fletcher/rodwell Pastore/Rodriguez Ferrio/regen - paloschi/Hernandez - Rooney/sturridge Hope that helps a little guys?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 I tend to retrain players to fit a tactic. Often with Spurs VDV is retrained as a forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruudvanwarren Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Right guys... My team line-up: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/338/manchesterunitedtactics.png/ Team stats = assists: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/515/manchesterunitedsquadpl.png/ Team stats = goals: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/15/manchesterunitedsquadpl.png/ My 2 AMC stats: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/840/javierpastoreoverviewat.png/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/268/jamesrodrguezoverviewat.png/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
boogiept Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 @ knap could u change the 41113 to a 4231 or a 41131? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyrh94 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Right guys...My team line-up: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/338/manchesterunitedtactics.png/ Team stats = assists: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/515/manchesterunitedsquadpl.png/ Team stats = goals: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/15/manchesterunitedsquadpl.png/ My 2 AMC stats: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/840/javierpastoreoverviewat.png/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/268/jamesrodrguezoverviewat.png/ whats the 2 tactics you have loaded? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fm_freak Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Can you tell which tactics are for patch 12.2.2?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruudvanwarren Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 whats the 2 tactics you have loaded? The 2 tactics I have loaded are knap's 41113 (I use attacking match prep always) & I've made a "stand off" version of the tactic taking the defensive tweaks from the original grid "stand off" tactic & employing them to knap's 41113! First match away to Juventus I won 5-1 using the newly created "stand off" version! Not saying its a world beater but it's an encouraging start Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyrh94 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 hmm perhaps once you could send it my way if its good enough.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruudvanwarren Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Right full season results using Knap's 41113 adaptation of the grid tactic...And I won everything I entered... Premier League: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/580/englishpremierdivisionok.png/ Really disappointed with the 4 loses and 4 draws but considering where I took my beloved reds from I believe it's a cracking achievment. On the plus side both the amount of goals and obtaining the best defensive record speaks volumes to the satbility of this tactic. FA Cup: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/69/manutdvchelseasplitview.png/ Europa League Final: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/204/manutdvhsvsplitview.png/ European Super Cup: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/827/europeansupercupovervie.png/ League Cup: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/402/manutdvswanseasplitview.png/ And Paloschi ended up with a cracking scoring record: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/707/albertopaloschioverview.png/ Cheers Knap!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nijode999 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Link please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruudvanwarren Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 The tactic is in post 912 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ataggy Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 hey knap, what kind of strikers and central mids are needed for the 442 grid tactic? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyrh94 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 The tactic is in post 912 I put the tactic into my city career save- the one i uploaded screenshots in hough's thread using his tactic in the first season. Can I ask, what do you do for team talks? Usually i leave this to assistant... Also, how is the tactic working for you in your next season? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruudvanwarren Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Team talks... Start of the match: Always aggressive - I expect a win (regardless of opposition or home/away) Half time: If losing/drawing/or winning 2-0 or less I always go the agressive route If winning 3-0 or more I always cautiously tell my players to guard against complacency (regardless of the score or opposition) *any players that don't react or react negatively I always passionately tell them I have faith in them *if a player is haing a good game with a rating of 7.6+ I tell them passionately that I'm very pleased with their performance Full time: If draw or lost I react aggressively & tell my team it's not good enough (sometimes I also use this if I'v only just scraped a win against a poor team i.e. 2-1 or 3-2) If I win by a 2 goal margin I always passionately praise my players for a job well done *if a player who has played well does not react I always tell them passionately that I was happy with their performance Personally i always want to be in control of anything that can influence the game! I've never contemplated using my ass man for team talks as they're to crucial to my teams success! As for how my save is doing in the 2nd season I'm a bit of a job whore and jump from club to club! I went from United to Barca for about 11 games :s & completely wiped the floor with everyone including a 10-0 home win against 3rd place Malaga...then 11 games in the Atletico Mardrid job came up...think they were about 12th in the league! I had a look at their side and thought I'd be able to do something with them and so far after about 15 games my only loss has been against Barca away (typical)!!!! This also included a 10-0 win against valladolid! Just passed the jan transfer window and United had put Paloschi up for sale so I loaned him to Atl Mardrid now he's back to his old tricks again banging in goal after goal...think he's jealous of Falcao,ha! Any how regardless this tactic is going from strength to strength!!! Try it fingers cossed you won't be disappointed!!! Not at my laptop now so can't back this up with screen shots, but I will do soon! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyrh94 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 @Ruud Cheers lad, you have helped me alot with tactics so far. Btw did you mean "losing/drawing/winning by 2 goals or less" and "winning by 3 goals or more"? So which do you think is better...Knaps tactic or the original FMTN Grid? (although i will load both up into my match prep, just want to know which one to use as my main) Also, pick a random team for me to manage please? Cant decide lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruudvanwarren Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Morning Jimmy, What I meant with the half-time team talks is that i.e. Just played a game At. Mardrid V Valencia, at half-time it was 2-1 to me but because the goal margin is just 1 I raosted my team for a poor showing. Even if it was 3-1 i'd agressively tell them it was a poor showing and i expect more because the goal margin is only 2. Now say for example it was 3-0 or 4-0 (which is a regular occurance with the Knap 41113 tactic) at half time i'd cautiously warning them against complacency. Is that ok geeeeezer? They are both fantastic tactics and probably the best tactics out there for patch 12.2.2. But i'm leaning more towards Knap's adaptation because it incorrporates a AMC This is when I took over At. Mardrid...the team had rock bottom morale...quite a few want away players: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/31/ligabbvaoverviewstagest.png/ Since I took over here are my fixtures and results: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/217/catlticomadridsadfixtur.png/ ...And here are my 2 10-nil'ers I spoke about last night ***EDIT sorry didn't realise the Valladolid score came against Almeria and it was actually 10-1, I can live with that,haha: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/819/barcelonavmlagainformat.png/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/853/atmadridvalmerainformat.png/ As for what team to pick Jimmy...Give it a whirl with Chelski...I'd go for a top 3 of Sturridge - Lukaku - Torres (Although Torres would be scarey in the central position) Mata in the AMCL, Ramires/Lampard in midfield and Obi Mikel DMC...OR try it with AC Milan good midfield great attacking front 3 of Robinho - Zaltan - Pato... The decision is yours...Good luck buddy!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruudvanwarren Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Sorry I didn't finish this bit off: They are both fantastic tactics and probably the best tactics out there for patch 12.2.2. But i'm leaning more towards Knap's adaptation because it incorrporates a AMC and it still retains the team defensive structure. You could play an AMC in the original no problem but he wouldn't be sitting in his true position...hope that makes sense? Also I never scored the amount of goals with the original than I have with Knap's. The way the Fullbacks contribute in Knap's is fantastic...They constantly boombard the oppositions penalty box with crosses from deep... All in all it's down to personal prefrence and I don't think you'd go wrong with either tactic... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruudvanwarren Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I've also created a so called "Stand off" tactic of Knap's 41113...all I did was use all the defensive man marking ethics of the original grid "stand off" tactic and put them into Kanp's 41113... So i used them in the following matches (I don't have a great team by any stretch of the imagination): Chelsea Home Champions League 2nd round: Game stats: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/641/atmadridvchelseasplitvi.png/ Players stats: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/687/atmadridvchelseastatspl.png/ Yes Yes Yes...Another hat-trick for Paloschi... Real Mardrid Home: Half Time: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/825/atmadridvrmadridsplitvi.png/ Full Time http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/546/atmadridvrmadridsplitvi.png/ Look at the amount of ccc's... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyrh94 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Thanks, so much Ruud! Ideally, i want to play the game like you hopping from club to club and picking up trophies all over the world. You have helped me so much so thanks alot! Going to plug in both this and Tacktickzz Original for backup (I would put Hough's in, but although I like the football it plays I'm really not a fan of the 2 dm's) I hope I can have as much success as you are having with it. One thing I will ask is, I know the dm has to be defensive and the AMCL attacking but how important is it for the cm to be defensive aswell? Could I get away with a well rounded player like lampard, Gerrard, Modric or even play an attacking midfielder at cm such as Kagawa, Pastore, or do they have to be defensive like the dm and be in the mould of Carrick, Mvilla? Do you mind uploading your stand-off version aswell (you can use any filehosting website) ? And do you only use it for tough away games? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruudvanwarren Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I think the beauty of the 41113 tactic is that you can have any type of MC playing in that role...i'd probably choose an all-rounder for away games and a more attcking MC for home games... Here's the "stand-off" 41113 of Knap's tactic (Hope i've done this right???): http://www.filefactory.com/file/complete.php/5uwuhbd820n/ I use it for tough away games and if i'm a weaker side tough home games like in the screenshots above... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D - Pak Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I think the beauty of the 41113 tactic is that you can have any type of MC playing in that role...i'd probably choose an all-rounder for away games and a more attcking MC for home games...Here's the "stand-off" 41113 of Knap's tactic (Hope i've done this right???): http://www.filefactory.com/file/complete.php/5uwuhbd820n/ I use it for tough away games and if i'm a weaker side tough home games like in the screenshots above... Yeh I love Tactikzz tactic. I had a look at how well you were doing with an AMC, so I changed Tactikzz's press and stand off tactics by moving MCL to AMCL and changing the tackling to easy and putting a forward arrow and now the tactic is even better. I am playing as Norwich. Its only been 6 games, lost to chelsea 2-1 in the first game, but i have won the rest of the 5 games beating Arsenal 4-3 at emirates and Man City 2-1 at home. Top of the table and I know re-ranking from Nov to March will affect my form a little bit but 1st place after 6 games with default norwich squad and having beaten arsenal and man city is pretty good Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyrh94 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I think the beauty of the 41113 tactic is that you can have any type of MC playing in that role...i'd probably choose an all-rounder for away games and a more attcking MC for home games...Here's the "stand-off" 41113 of Knap's tactic (Hope i've done this right???): http://www.filefactory.com/file/complete.php/5uwuhbd820n/ I use it for tough away games and if i'm a weaker side tough home games like in the screenshots above... Thanks, that downloaded alright. Going to take over chelsea then as suggested- although Milan was tempting! Ill probably line up like this: Ivanovic-Luiz-Terry-Cole -------Ramires--------- ------Lampard-------- ----------Mata------ New Player--Torres--Hazard I think I have about 80 mil to spend, so I will probably get a more solid DM than ramires because he has the ppm "get forward whenever possible" and I will also buy a striker for the right side. Hopefully Hazard is okay for the left but he will need retraining in the striker position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CK ck x Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Thanks, that downloaded alright. Going to take over chelsea then as suggested- although Milan was tempting!Ill probably line up like this: Ivanovic-Luiz-Terry-Cole -------Ramires--------- ------Lampard-------- ----------Mata------ New Player--Torres--Hazard I think I have about 80 mil to spend, so I will probably get a more solid DM than ramires because he has the ppm "get forward whenever possible" and I will also buy a striker for the right side. Hopefully Hazard is okay for the left but he will need retraining in the striker position. I would buy a new DM, then push mata up to a wide striker, then push lampard up to AM and then put ramires in cm!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyrh94 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I would buy a new DM, then push mata up to a wide striker, then push lampard up to AM and then put ramires in cm!! Yeah, thanks, I had thought of that actually, simply because Ramires isn't a conventional dm and is better playing along side a more defensive dm- like miereles in real life. I will do what you suggested- I suppose you are saying that I should play Hazard Left, Torres down the middle and Mata on the right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CK ck x Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Yeah, thanks, I had thought of that actually, simply because Ramires isn't a conventional dm and is better playing along side a more defensive dm- like miereles in real life.I will do what you suggested- I suppose you are saying that I should play Hazard Left, Torres down the middle and Mata on the right? Yeah even if u bought a new forward, u could play hazard in the am role as he will bring more pace to the team! And put lampard on the bench! Hazard and lampard can both play am and cm! So u only need to buy a dm and forward! I would try and get a new rb aswell! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyrh94 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Yeah even if u bought a new forward, u could play hazard in the am role as he will bring more pace to the team! And put lampard on the bench! Hazard and lampard can both play am and cm! So u only need to buy a dm and forward! I would try and get a new rb aswell! Ah that's the thing, I cant work out if hazard is best at amc or upfront. And if he is better at AMC, im not sure how good mata is upfront....:s I've never really played/Watched much chelsea before so im not too sure about the player's secondary positions. Ill go something like this then. Vrsaljko-Luiz-Terry-Cole -------NewDM--------- ---Ramires/Lampard---- ------Hazard---------- Mata---Torres---New STLC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CK ck x Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Ah that's the thing, I cant work out if hazard is best at amc or upfront. And if he is better at AMC, im not sure how good mata is upfront....:s I've never really played/Watched much chelsea before so im not too sure about the player's secondary positions.Ill go something like this then. Vrsaljko-Luiz-Terry-Cole -------NewDM--------- ---Ramires/Lampard---- ------Hazard---------- Mata---Torres---New STLC From what ruud has said and uploaded, i can see that the middle striker is the main goalscorer! So having torres in the middle as your main goal threat and the outer strikers being a mata kind of player who is good and finishing and crossing will Be your best bet for the wider forwards! Mata is good upfront and hazard is unreal in am! Both of which i have had and played in them positions on my game! If u were to bring lukaku on though i would make sure he plays in the middle and move torres out wide (if you keep him on) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruudvanwarren Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I think Hazard would be great in what ever position you choose to play him Jimmy. Like Ck ck x says he is awesome at AMC but I believe he would be equally good in the FCL. When I was City (Using the original grid "press" tactic) I played him there and as the 41113 is a take on the original I think he would work great there too. Have you started your test yet? I hope I haven't bigged this tactic up too much...but it's still doing unreal for me with At. Mardrid... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyrh94 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I think Hazard would be great in what ever position you choose to play him Jimmy. Like Ck ck x says he is awesome at AMC but I believe he would be equally good in the FCL. When I was City (Using the original grid "press" tactic) I played him there and as the 41113 is a take on the original I think he would work great there too.Have you started your test yet? I hope I haven't bigged this tactic up too much...but it's still doing unreal for me with At. Mardrid... I haven't started yet- was out in the late afternoon so my fm time came to an abrupt end! Just going back to my chelsea save now- My first day in charge. My worry of putting Hazard at amc is that he doesn't have the vision and passing like Mata. Also if i put Hazard at amc then mata will have to play upfront- although Ck ck x has reassured me that mata will do well upfront. I could just play mata torres and hazard upfront and buy a new attacking mid? So many options lol- chelsea have 2 many players that can play in every position! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruudvanwarren Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Well I got in from work jumped straight onto FM and these were my results...it's getting silly now...considering my squad... Mallorca Home - 9-0 Press version of 41113 Marseille Home - 5-0 stand off version 41113 Sporting G Away - 8-0 Press version 41113 Almeria Away - 6-1 press version 41113 I genuinely have never played with a tactic that has destroyed all opposition soooooo easily in all my FM days!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyrh94 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Well I got in from work jumped straight onto FM and these were my results...it's getting silly now...considering my squad...Mallorca Home - 9-0 Press version of 41113 Marseille Home - 5-0 stand off version 41113 Sporting G Away - 8-0 Press version 41113 Almeria Away - 6-1 press version 41113 I genuinely have never played with a tactic that has destroyed all opposition soooooo easily in all my FM days!!!! Just Signed Lars Bender for DM and Vrsaljko for RB. My team is looked awesome now. Just had Inter accept my offer for sneijder and he accepted the terms of agreement however i feel i need a striker as torres is the only real bit of quality I have upfront where I have a load of players who are capable of playing in the AMCL slot. I think I am going to play hazard in the amcl slot simply because of his pace and trickery whilst mata will be better as an outer striker slotting balls into Torres (Forgive the sexual innuendo) For my other outer striker I am torn between Pato and Hulk for my outer striker? What do you think? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyrh94 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 This is the team I finally decided.... Obviously, there are a few talking points: Ramies could easily sub in for Lampard whilst Mata and Hazard could also be swapped positions so that Mata is the amcl- but ill leave it like this for now. Think I did a good job in the transfer market aswell-Using the LFC Marshall update so had 80 mil to spend then freed up another 25 mil. I also sold Benayoun, but that hadn't gone through when I took the screen shot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
magvest Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 ruud, can you please upload the stand-off tactic somewhere else? Can't download from filefactory... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruudvanwarren Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Yeah sure mate...I'm not at my laptop at the moment...I've never uploaded tactics before so I'll have a go when I get home :s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyrh94 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Yeah sure mate...I'm not at my laptop at the moment...I've never uploaded tactics before so I'll have a go when I get home :s I must be doing something wrong, but I'm not really getting the same results as you ruud :/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruudvanwarren Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I must be doing something wrong, but I'm not really getting the same results as you ruud :/ U using very high match prep on attacking focus? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruudvanwarren Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Try this link magvest: http://www.freefilehosting.net/showdownload.php/fmtngridsystem-41113p95f98a22standoff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruudvanwarren Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Well my season with At. Mardrid ended with...I can't believe it...The chamions League Trophy!!!!!!! http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/607/mancityvatmadridsplitvi.png/ I barely had a fully fit side too as 3 days earlier I took Barca to penalties in the Spanish cup final so my players were knackered!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SammyBeardo Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 With the 41113 Tactic what Pitch Size and Match Prep should I use? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 With the stand off tactic I have tweaked DL to normal with following results. Uploaded with ImageShack.us Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
magvest Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Try this link magvest:http://www.freefilehosting.net/showdownload.php/fmtngridsystem-41113p95f98a22standoff That worked, thanks a lot mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyontour Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 When using Knaps 442 what is the best way to convert 442 to 441?? Using tottenham and would like to use van der vaart and modric!!? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 Retrain VDV as a forward so can be used upfront or RM or MC. Modric plays well at MC or LM/RM. You can also retrain Lennon as a forward. A 4411 is not the best formation on FM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nijode999 Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Is there a good tactic for top team vs top team? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nijode999 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Is there a good tactic for top team vs top team? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyrh94 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Knap, im interested in your 442 v2 grid system tactic. Quality results there in the premiership, but how did you get on in the cups? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 The 442 Won Euro 2012. Top Team v Top Team see England v Germany and England v Spain results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyrh94 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 The 442 Won Euro 2012.Top Team v Top Team see England v Germany and England v Spain results. thanks but what about cups with the man city team you trialled it with for a season? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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