Do you think you have seen it all ??

[ricrpor]

This is FM23... Congrats 

This is the cherry on the top of the cake 

 

 

[tropicsafc]

What?

[iAlwaysWin]

The problem with not accepting things going your way with results like this, it has a kind of butterfly effect. Where if you reload this game and win it you may not win the next game or the game after that where you maybe would have expected to lose and vice verser.

[rinso]

3 hours ago, ricrpor said:

This is FM23... Congrats 

This is the cherry on the top of the cake 

 

 

 

 

If you were managing Torino, vs AI and this had happened, would you have created this thread ???? 

 

I'm managing Barnsley...  

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by rinso

[XaW]

I just had this happen...

I'm the away team 

[XaW]

30 minutes ago, jeru said:

This is due to the “underdog” algorithm, when a high reputation team plays a low reputation team the typical tactics are the low reputation team plays defensive or cautious. To give them a chance the “underdog” algorithm kicks in and when it does it makes it harder for the high reputation team to win. 

all the clever people who posted their screenshots here are playing as low reputation teams so they also benefit from the underdog algorithm, but as a high reputation team you cannot “FM” the AI 

and before there’s a pile on saying that the ME treats player and AI the same this is true in side the ME, however outside there are things that only affect the player and things such as the underdog algorithm affect both. 

Can I get a source for this info? This is all news to me.

[santy001]

I think you'll find that post was written by the Jeru algorithm. Next up we might see a post about how the world is flat. 

It's pretty wild to go to the lengths of inventing a conspiracy theory to help cope with why you lost a game harshly a few times. 

[XaW]

9 minutes ago, jeru said:

There are various mechanisms that act as balancing algorithms that affect how your players play and thus the results. Morale, compliancy, the run of your results, club reputation all outside of the ME feed into it. This is not news to anyone surely. 

Indeed it is, but I'm still waiting for any references to the “underdog algorithm" that "kicks in and when it does it makes it harder for the high reputation team to win". That is your words. I've NEVER heard this from SI, and since you wrote this, I'd like to see where you got this info from. I'm quite familiar with the game, and I've never seen anything regarding an "underdog algorithm", so I would like to read more about it. So any link to a post here by SI, or an interview by Miles, or a Twitter post by Nic Madden, or anything else. Anything you got to back up your statement, please.

[XaW]

1 minute ago, jeru said:

I have told you before don’t interact with me your argumentative nature and disrespect towards paying SI customers is horrifically  bad. 

if you think that just attributes and RNG count toward results that’s up to you, how do you think SI “balance” the game, with algorithms and weighting, that’s how games work but hey you stay in your bubble and keep pretending it isn’t so that’s up to you. 

I asked you to prove your statement, nothing more, nothing less. If you can't then please avoid spreading conspiracy theories and then attack me when you can't back it up.

[XaW]

4 minutes ago, jeru said:

These are typical gaming mechanics not conspiracy theories I was simply offering a possible explanation to the OP that’s all. 

YOU were the aggressive one YOU are attacking me accusing me of spreading conspiracy theories when that’s not the case at all. 

I have worked in the gaming industry for 29 years so @XaW what are your credentials for knowing gaming mechanics? 

If you give me the proof I asked for, I'll happily apologize. But until then...

[iAlwaysWin]

1 minute ago, XaW said:

If you give me the proof I asked for, I'll happily apologize. But until then...

The proof that you would like provided is impossiable for him to provide since he does not have access to the source code of football manager.

[XaW]

2 minutes ago, iAlwaysWin said:

The proof that you would like provided is impossiable for him to provide since he does not have access to the source code of football manager.

2 minutes ago, jeru said:

Can you share the source code with me and I’ll point it out in the code for you to see

I don't have access either, but then again I don't claim it exists. The burden of proof is on the one who makes the claim.

[iAlwaysWin]

5 minutes ago, XaW said:

I don't have access either, but then again I don't claim it exists. The burden of proof is on the one who makes the claim.

That is true but all he can do is provide scenario that he has incountered from his experence with the game, true or false none of us truely know accept the actual game designers.To say hes spreading lies and conspiracy theories is a bit harsh since none of us truely know the inner workings of the match engine.

Edited February 11, 2023 by iAlwaysWin

[XaW]

Just now, jeru said:

So should I reverse engineer the code and break the terms and conditions of the software agreement to satisfy your sarcastic self? Is that what an official SI moderator is suggesting? 

No, you can either present it as a claim and not as proof, or present somewhere SI have confirmed it. Other than that it's just speculation. Anyway, I'm done here, as I don't feel that the discussion is being held in good faith.

Just now, iAlwaysWin said:

That is true but all he can do is provide scenario that he has incountered from his experence with the game, true or false none of use truely know accept the actual game designers.To say hes spreading lies and conspiracy theories is a bit harsh since none of us truely know the inner workings of the match engine.

Yes, and if he had presented it as a claim, then I wouldn't mind, but he presented it as a "truth" and that's not the case. So I asked where he got his info. For all I know he could be correct, I have no idea, but I would very much like to see whatever proof he has of it. I don't know, I'm not an employee of SI, and don't know more about the code in the game than anyone else, and I don't tell anyone. Someone claiming this or that is in the code of the game, that's something I want proof of. Either as something that is reproduceable in the game, or a confirmation by SI. Anything else is pure speculation, and should not be presented as "true".

[jeru]

2 minutes ago, iAlwaysWin said:

That is true but all he can do is provide scenario that he has incountered from his experence with the game, true or false none of us truely know accept the actual game designers.To say hes spreading lies and conspiracy theories is a bit harsh since none of us truely know the inner workings of the match engine.

Exactly this I was offering an opoion that’s all, I actually have massive respect for the programmers for what they have achieved especially given what spec of PC they have to get this to run on, it’s no mean feat that’s for sure. 
 

if I am right or wrong the amount of goals and the results of the teams with high reputations are broadly correct which is a feat of programming in itself. 
 

that many many people complain of one shot one goal being FM’d is not just a meme and happens to often to be random RNG leads the thinking that there may be other contributing factors……

[CFuller]

If you're going to wilfully spread nonsense conspiracy theories and alternative truths, don't be surprised if you get called out on it.

Earlier today, Arsenal had 69% possession and 23 shots. Brighton had 75% possession and 17 shots. Chelsea had 72% possession. Southampton had 17 shots against a team who played most of the match with 10 men. None of those teams won their matches.

It's not that unusual for teams to have more possession and/or more shots than their opponents but still not win - in fact, you'll find multiple examples every week, at all levels of professional football. This is not exclusive to FM.

[iAlwaysWin]

Well i think the problem is for many is how these dominated games where you lose or draw is represented where the gamer feels robbed, where in real life you seen exactly how such results unfolded and real life cannot be disputed. FM is not real life, its a game trying to simuate real life football.

[Hunkut]

FM 2023 is my 18th Football Manager game that I own. So I can said I know the game. Now I play for Greuther Furth and I lost with a goal in the last minute of the match 2:1. Well, bad luck. They didn't play what I wanted. I'm moving on, even though I'm not happy after this loss.
In 17 years of playing this game, I have experienced many interesting moments, big wins and losses. I won the FA Cup with Middlesbrough, the Bundesliga with Hamburg. I chased Barcelona and Real in La Liga with Sporting Gijon. I was about to win the title with Forest until my computer crashed. With Frankfurt, I lost the decisive game of the last round against Bayern 3-4, although I was still winning 3-2 with 5 minutes to go and played without the suspended captain. I needed a draw and got a goal in the last seconds of the game to make it 3-4. I took it hard, but that's football and I continued on. However, I have also experienced situations where I would uninstall the game and never play again. Not because of a loss, but because of some weird game decisions that got out of my control. However, some situations were really too much for me. For example. Centered ball from the left side. Nobody from the opponent in the 6-yard box. The goalkeeper has turned his back to the incoming ball and is walking along the goal line. The ball hits the goalkeeper's back and bounces off his back into the goal. In the 18 years I've been playing, I've never seen a goal like that for my side. The opponent scored a goal and won the match 2:1 with a single shot on goal. Another example of a very weak shot by the opponent. My goalkeeper caught the ball with his gloves. Suddenly, with the ball in his gloves, he takes two steps backward across the goal line. The opponent scored a goal. I'm not saying the game is unfair. However, there were also situations after which I could really think that. But you have to be able to distinguish the frustration of losing from the actual nonsense of the game, as I mentioned before.
However, when similar situations occur, as I have already mentioned, it is very unpleasant. Then I don't even feel sorry for losing because I can't win everything, especially in smaller clubs. The only thing that annoys me is the way it was achieved. Whoever wants to win everything should play for Real or Barcelona. Or use save and load mode before matches. I play without it. I only use save and load when I lose a match after a very special situation. I mentioned only two special situations. In fact, there have been quite a few in 18 years of playing FM, but there is no point in writing them. It's just a game. However, I understand the frustration of the author of the initial post.

Every game, every program works on some settings and codes. And I also have a question. If we knew the inner workings of the Match Engine and knew what was going to happen in the match, what would be the point of the game? I'm glad that I don't even know the codes of the game, even if I'm not always satisfied with what happens in the match.

Edited February 12, 2023 by Hunkut

[Lord Rowell]

Why would SI willingingly create a piece of code that works against human players to annoy them, upset them / us?
This would of course discourage them / us from buying the game in the future, and be negative word of mouth.

Please people, think about this

[Hunkut]

6 hours ago, Lord Rowell said:

Why would SI willingingly create a piece of code that works against human players to annoy them, upset them / us?
This would of course discourage them / us from buying the game in the future, and be negative word of mouth.

Please people, think about this

Every game has coding and every game can have bad coding or something in the game that looks like an bug code for ordinary people.
When you're coding anything, especially a complicated program, it's enough to change one little thing in the coding by carelessness and it can have a completely different result.

[Hunkut]

On 11/02/2023 at 18:01, XaW said:

 

 

Look at this, buddy! First I tried to replay the match against Arminia Bielefeld. And the same tactics, the same speech, the same players and? Similar course of the match and what a different result! In the replay, Arminia had the same, only one shot on goal. However, after a direct kick, they scored a goal with a header and the result was a draw. Now I lost at home against Hamburg. Hamburg scored two goals from two shots on goal and had a miracle goalkeeper. While my goalkeepe was poor in performance. My team created more chances than Hamburg, who only had one shot on goal by the end of the half, so may team was still not a worse team, even so I was losing 0-3. I believe that if I were to repeat the match again with the same tactics and players, the match could easily end with my victory. The paradox is that just 4 days before, Hamburg lost 0:4 at home to Regensburg in a truly tragic performance. 
I want to say:
You can have morale and support good and still loss a match against anyone at any time regardless of the situation they are still in. And these are exactly the situations for which I sometimes tend to question the game's decisions! Suddenly you lose something, suddenly the your players start behaving strangely in the match, even if the morale is excellent! Not gradually, but suddenly!

So the question is how is it possible for Hamburg to suddenly lose 0-4 at home and then win 3-0 away against my team! I am convinced that if I had to repeat the match with the same tactic,  speech and players, it would be different as against Arminia. 

The second question is: How much randomness is there in a game or match engine! It seems very strange to me that the second team in the league suddenly loses 0-4 at home after poor perfomance and then a few days later same team scored 3 goals away against league leader and win clearly 3-0.

The third question is: How much does the game decide the performance of the players in the match! Because in testing match against Arminia, some players performed differently in the first and second matches. I am convinced that it happened again against Hamburg

I'm not trying to prove anything wrong. I'm just trying to explain that some of the game's decisions are indeed paradoxical to say the least! If the situation repeat several times in a short time itself, it is something to think about and it may seem unfair to some. It has happened to me 3 times in the last 5 games. I won one match, drew one (arminia test match) and lost against Hamburg. It's not about the results or the losses, it's more about the fact that your team not play worse, or is better team than opponent, it often happens that the opponent literally humiliates you with an amazing finish: or the strange behavior of your players in the match. And when the opponent scores a goal after some strange behavior of your player and you lose the match, it is very difficult to handle. And also when you have more chances than the opponent and the opponent's miracle goalkeeper saves everything and your goalkeeper is as leaky as an old fishing net. It is similarly difficult. It's not about losses, but about paradoxical situations decided by the game!
I can't say I didn't do well with Furth. I am first in the league with a difference of 5 points ahead of Hamburg. Hamburg broke me even though they lost before and the morale in mine is great at the same time. The tactic seems to be working well. when I have the defense (only 12 goals conceded in 15 games before the loss to Hamburg and I have the best attack 35 goals in 15 match). I won 12 games and some of them I won with good work in defense and midfield. But I think of these paradoxes of the game!

 

 

e 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Hunkut