[FM23] Out of Africa. (Spanish out of Morocco to be precise). We will start with Ceuta, but if things go badly I might end up at Melila.

[Jimbokav1971]

59 minutes ago, Bigshow1 said:

Do you contest the decisions from your board to turn down youth recruitment improvements? I nearly always get it accepted after using the convince or insist options. 

I contest every single one. The only ones accepted have been accepted after I have appealed the original facility upgrade decision. The only things agreed 1st time were 2 coaching courses.

[Jimbokav1971]

I don't think I'm going to enjoy this January transfer window.  Jan 2029.

1st Jan 2049. The transfer window doesn't even bloomin open to 4th Jan. 

Eight flipping forty eight AM on the 1st January and they are at me already. 
And that little Michael Ballacks wants to talk to me too!

Well they can Uwe Fuchs right off!  

It's going to be a long old window I think. 

He's not going for a penny under £5M and I've told him that. 

In actual fact I might be tempted to sell him for £4M plus add-ons, but if they pay that they will probably just meet his clause .

6th Jan 2029. Arsenal & Man City join Liverpool in making a bid. They are still way off the mark. 

7th Jan 2029. Crespo has an absolute stinker against Huesca, (getting a 6.0 rating and being dragged off on 78 mins).

9th Jan 2029. Liverpool don't seem to care how rubbish he was against Huesca. They are in again. 

10th Jan 2029. Arsenal are in again. 

Crespo is dropped/rotated for the league game against Coruña and we win 2-0 (we were lucky rather than good). 

Liverpool are in again. 

12th Jan 2029. Man City seem intent on haggling. Just pay me his min fee clause ffs!

13th Jan 2029. Liverpool make the 1st £1M cash offer. 

Crespo starts in the league against FC Andorra and has another stinker. This time he lasts until the 84th min before being dragged off on a 6.2. He's now gone 3 games without scoring for what seems the 1st time in ages. He's not even missing chances. 

14th Jan 2029. Arsenal & Man Utd in now. 

15th Jan 2029. I wasn't expecting this.  

20th Jan 2029. Man Utd back in again. 

I know he's not worth £5M buy the way, but I have him contracted for 2 more years and then I have a +1 option on top of that and also a +1 being triggered if we get promoted, so I'm happy if he stays here for another couple of years if they don't want to pay us £5M. 

21st Jan 2029. Man City again. 

Crespo starts in the league against Granada, and although he scores, it's not a great performance, (7.1). 

23rd Jan 2029. El Presidente is up for re-election in January and he does this? 

There is at least the offer of a loan back. 

I'm going to protest the offer, and if the protest doesn't work I'm going to trigger his +1 option which will cancel the deal. I just wish we were closer to the end of the window.  It doesn't close for another 9 days. 

The protest didn't work and they even commented on our recent run of "terrible" results. (They aren't wrong). 

And now it won't let me trigger his +1 clause.

The option isn't there.  Maybe it's only there when they have offered a contract to a player who's contract is expiring. I'm sure it didn't used to be like this. 

24th Jan 2029. I hadn't noticed until no, but Crespo is  Raul. He of the 100+ Caps for Spain, 500+ appearances for Real Madrid and 300+ career goals. That Raul. 

27th Jan 2029. The idiot El Presidente who is selling Crespo has just won a 2nd term as El Presidente. Eegits! 

We don't need any investment thanks. Just leave me alone and I will sort it myself! 

28th Jan 2029. Football is a funny old game. Crespo signs off, (presumably), with a hat-trick and a MOM performance in the league against Lugo. 

29th Jan 2029. He's still here. Are contract negotiations going to break down? 

30th Jan 2029. He's still still here.... Window closes on 1st Feb. 

31st Jan 2029. It's Transfer Deadline Day today and Crespo is still at the club. 

07:47 He's still here. 
08:00 He's still here. 
09:00 He's still here. 
10:00 He's still here. 
11:00 He's still here. 
12:00 He's still here. How much time am I going to have to spend the £1.5M we get? 
13:00 He's still here.
14:00 He's still here.
15:00 He's still here. 
16:00 He's still here. 
17:00 He's still here. 
18:00 He's still here. 
19:00 He's still here. 
20:00 He's still here. He is here right? Maybe I've just missed the message and it's gone through already? Nope. He's still here. 
21:00 He's still here. 
22:00 He's still here. 
23:00 He's still here. 
00:00 He's still here.  WTF!!!

Does this mean that the deal will go through in the Summer and then we will get him back for a whole season after that? 

[Edit]

The Premier League window is also closed now. And we agreed to a loan-back until the end of the season. If he leaves in the Summer will we get him back for another full season? 

[Edit2] OMG OMG OMG. I've finally done it. I've found a benefit of Brexit!  

Edited November 15, 2022 by Jimbokav1971

[ToMexico!!]

A whirlwind of emotions in that post. Glad he's staying for the time being, if only the rest of the season!

[Jimbokav1971]

31 minutes ago, ToMexico!! said:

A whirlwind of emotions in that post. Glad he's staying for the time being, if only the rest of the season!

Yeah, it might mean the difference between relegation and staying up. We will find it very hard to replace him in the short term. 

To put things in perspective, Crespo has scored 23 league goals this season, (and tops the LaLiga2 scoring charts).

Let's look at Dieng (SEN) who is 1 goal behind him in the scoring charts. 

He's getting paid £77,500 per month. 
Crespo is getting paid £7,000 per month. 

S. Gijón paid £3.8M for Dieng (SEN) while in LaLiga2. 
We brought Crespo through our Academy. 

So irrespective of what sort of potential Crespo has, his current ability is plenty decent already. 

S. Gijón finished 11th, 14th, 18th in previous seasons and are currently sitting 3rd. 

I think this puts things in perspective. 

I think it's fair to say that we are still the minnows this league and every season we survive is a big success. 

[Jimbokav1971]

Damn you Brexit! Feb 2029. 

Why has he been granted a WP? 

Why? 

Ah well. That's that then. 

[ToMexico!!]

That 40% profit is going to be huge I reckon. You'll have to judge it well, whether to sell the clause or let it ride depending on his gametime/growth at Liverpool. 

[vivu]

When the big guns come calling, add the transfer % clause and add a huge bonus after 1 game and negotiate. If we keep rejecting, pretty soon the Chairman seems to interfere. Even after having 20+ mill in bank, my board had accepted low ball bids (as per me ie )

 

And good to see that the transfer is set for close season. You will get him back for another season at no cost

Edited November 15, 2022 by vivu

[Thebaker]

Its hard to see how Liverpool would get a WP since he is not capped.  I notice the transfer is already less than his value

Also hard to see how with your facilities such a good player as Crespo was generated at your club.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Thebaker

[Jimbokav1971]

Jan & Feb 2029. 

I was so busy with the transfer window and Crespo that I forgot to post the normal monthly update for January. 

LaLiga SmartBank. We're 7 points clear of the relegation zone, but our form is terrible. (Terrible is the word the board used). If we can't survive this season with Crespo, we will have no chance next season without him. 

Copa de Su Majestad el Rey. I rotated the squad for a game against opposition from the league below and it but back hard as we dominated the game and had loads of shots, but just 1 of them on target. They scored and we didn't so we're out.

Goal-scoring GK's. We're only averaging a shot every 2 games, so we really shouldn't be expecting too many goals. 

Finances. 

[Jimbokav1971]

Jan 2029 Transfer window. 

While the deal that will see Crespo leave us wasn't completed until after the window closed, there were some deals that got done in time. 

In. 

Balogun (ESP)(NGA) was signed on a free to join us at the end of the season, but they offered a buy now deal for £10k and I accepted. 

Moumen (MAR)(ESP) * was signed on loan when I thought I was losing Crespo in the transfer window but didn't have any cash to buy a replacement. 

Out. 

Nwachukwu (NGA) 6'2" was leaving on a free at the end of the season anyway, so I nabbed a few quid for him and sent him on his way immediately. 

[Jimbokav1971]

1 hour ago, ToMexico!! said:

That 40% profit is going to be huge I reckon. You'll have to judge it well, whether to sell the clause or let it ride depending on his gametime/growth at Liverpool. 

I really don't think it's likely that he's going to be that good. I mean don't get me wrong, we know he's decent, but I would be astonished if he was proper top end. 

[Jimbokav1971]

1 hour ago, vivu said:

When the big guns come calling, add the transfer % clause and add a huge bonus after 1 game and negotiate. If we keep rejecting, pretty soon the Chairman seems to interfere. Even after having 20+ mill in bank, my board had accepted low ball bids (as per me ie )

And good to see that the transfer is set for close season. You will get him back for another season at no cost

I can't really complain about the sale. Our record fee received is just £80,000 so anything £1M+ is huge money. It's a deal that would get done in real life. 

I don't think we will get him back for another season, (but I hope you're right). 

[Jimbokav1971]

1 hour ago, Thebaker said:

Its hard to see how Liverpool would get a WP since he is not capped.  I notice the transfer is already less than his value

Also hard to see how with your facilities such a good player as Crespo was generated at your club.

I'm not 100% sure how WP's work, either in real life or in the game. I will have to do some research on it. 

Our facilities aren't that bad, (but they aren't spectacular either). I really do suspect that Crespo isn't amazing. I mean he might be, but it's really not very likely. Good players can definitely be produced at clubs with poor facilities though. 

The next time the NxGn 50 feature comes up I will look at the clubs who spawned each player and what their facilities are. 

[Edit]

For the record, Crespo isn't even our highest PA rated player. 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Jimbokav1971

[Thebaker]

13 minutes ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

 

[Edit]

For the record, Crespo isn't even our highest PA rated player. 

As i mentioned in an example on the last page when i finished that save i looked at the PA's. The youth listed highest that year had a PA of 125, the GK who was 2nd had a PA of 173 so what do the staff know about potential

[Jimbokav1971]

1 minute ago, Thebaker said:

As i mentioned in an example on the last page when i finished that save i looked at the PA's. The youth listed highest that year had a PA of 125, the GK who was 2nd had a PA of 173 so what do the staff know about potential

You're not wrong there, but it's all we have to go on so.....

In the past I have looked at the PA of players when they leave the club, but as Crespo is only 17 and as I plan on trying to loan him back I don't want to do that. If things change and he develops rapidly to such a level that it's obvious we won't be able to re-sign him then I might start looking at things. To be honest though, that will still spoil things and I really don't want to do that. 

Having said that, I have been pleasantly surprised by the quality of the player we've produced so early in the save. 

There was some discussion last year about the.... unusual strength of 1st intakes, (relative to other intakes with the same level of facilities and reputation). Looking back at what our facilities were then, I think this is a really unusual level of player produced. When you look at the 2023 players, keep in mind that our facilities at this time were 

2023. I still have the old saves, (for reporting bugs), and I can load them up and look at the facilities on the day of intake. 

2024. In contrast, there was nothing standing out about the 2nd intake. I don't remember any of them playing even occasionally. 

2025. The 3rd year is the same again. Rubbish. 

2026. The 4th intake is the same as Seasons 2 & 3. Rubbish. 

2027. The 5th intake is rubbish again, with the exception of Crespo. 

2028. The 6th intake is significantly better than anything that came before. Quite a few decent players. 8 on this list don't have a dot after their name so my thinking is that I haven't ruled them out from making 1st team level at some point. 

It's interesting that we've been producing good players in the last couple of years, (ignoring the 1st intake which always seems strange), and as we've maxed out our Junior Coaching since the last intake, I'm hopeful that things will be even better this season. 

I really need to do some experiments with the editor to try and shed some light on how the different facilities impact player generation, (but I would bet on something being fishy with 1st intakes at the very least). 

[Jimbokav1971]

NxGn 2029. 

I mentioned to @Thebakerthat I would look at the next NxGn award when it came up and we have just got here so I will look at the clubs where each player originated from and then have a look at their facilities. I haven't looked at any of them yet so this might be a very boring post that tells us nothing. 

1. 18yo AML from (BUL currently at Trabzonspor A.Ş (TUR).and came through their Academy. Their facilities are 14.10.13.7
2. 19yo DC from (BEL) currently at Eupen (BEL) and came through their Academy. Their facilities are 11.0.13.11 That's not a typo. Their Youth Facilities is rated 0.  That doesn't look right. Actually, the Youth Facilities are rated at "Good" which is level 12/13. What appears to be causing a problem here is that their Youth Facilities appear to be rented.  I haven't seen that before. 

3. 19yo MC/AML from (ESP) currently at Udinese (ITA) but came through the Academy at Villareal (ESP). Their facilities are 16.16.18.19.
4. 19yo AML from (SUI) currently at Norwich (ENG) on loan from Chelsea (ENG) but came through the Academy at Young Boys (SUI). Their facilities are 10.10.15.17.
5. 19yo AMR from (URU) currently at Chelsea (ENG) but came through the Academy at Defensor Sporting (URU). Their facilities are 9.15.19.20.
6. 18yo MC from (ITA) currently at Fiorentina (ITA) and came through the Academy. Their facilities are 20.19.16.16.
7. 19yo AML from (ENG) currently at Man City (ENG) and came through their Academy. Their facilities are 20.20.19.20.
8. 17yo MC from (SVK) currently at Slovan Bratislava (SVK) and came through their Academy. Their facilities are 13.12.13.18.
9. 17yo DM from (FRA) currently at Nantes (FRA) on loan from Olympique Lyonnais (FRA). Their facilities are 19.19.18.20.
10. 18yo SC from (GER) currently at Eintracht Braunschweig (GER) on loan from FC Bayern (GER) and he came through their Academy. Their facilities are 19.19.19.20.
11. 18yo DC from (ESP) currently at Barcelona (ESP) and came through their Academy. Their facilities are 17.18.20.20.
12. 18yo SC from (ITA) currently at AS Roma (ITA) but came through the Academy at Regina (ITA). Their facilities are 11.11.11.11.
13. 17yo SC from (ESP) currently at Mutilvera (ESP) on loan from R.Madrid (ESP) and came through their Academy. Their facilities are 17.17.18.19.
14. 19yo MR from (EGY) currently at Parthenope (ITA) which must be Lazio. He came through the Academy at Ismaily (EGY). Their facilities are 14.13.13.18.
15. 18yo DR from (GER) currently at Hoffenheim (GER) and he came through their Academy. Their facilities are 17.17.16.19.
16. 19yo MC from (ENG) currently at Norwich (ENG) on loan from Man City (ENG) and he came through their Academy. Their facilities are 19.19.18.20.
17. 18yo MR from (ENG) currently at Bristol City (ENG) on loan from A.Villa (ENG) and he came through their Academy. Their facilities are 18.17.17.20.
18. 19yo SC from (POR) currently at Liverpool (ENG) but came through the Academy at Santa Clara (POR). Their facilities are 9.8.11.9.
19. 19yo AMR from (CHN) currently at AS Monaco (FRA) and came through their Academy. Their facilities are 19.19.18.18.
20. 18yo DL from (ITA) currently at Amiens (FRA) and came through their Academy. Their facilities are 10.11.12.12. That's not very good. 
Let's speed this up a little. 
21. Barca (ESP).
22. Charleroi (BEL). 13.14.12.14.
23. Toulouse (FRA). 
24. Bayer Leverkusen (GER).
25. Penarol (URU). 11.16.15.14.
26. Benfica (POR).
27. Dunajska Streda (SVK). 14.13.13.15.
28. Tigres (MEX). 14.12.13.14.
29. R.Madrid (ESP).
30. Benfica (POR).
31. Metz (FRA). 11.15.14.14.
32. Boca Unidos (ARG). 12.11.5.8. Now this is amazing that this club generated a wonderkid. 
33. Vitoria (POR).
34. River (ARG).
35. C Sportivo Luqueño (PAR). 11.11.12.16. 
36. Bristol City. 15.14.13.11.
37. Fluminense (BRA). 13.13.14.18. (We're at #37 and that's the 1st Brazilian on the list). 
38. Maribor (SVN). 14.14.14.19.
39. Palmeiras (BRA). 18.15.15.17.
40. Santos (BRA) 16.13.14.20.
41. Malaga (ESP). 14.14.16.14.
42. Red Bull Bragantino (BRA). 12.11.11.13. That's not very good. 
43. Botev Plovdiv (BUL). 16.16.15.17.
44. Inter (ITA).
45. Kenk (BEL). 17.18.18.20.
46. Porto (POR).
47. Hertha Berlin (GER). 20.20.17.18.
48. Vallecano (ESP). 14.15.15.14.
49. Derby (ENG). 16.14.14.15.
50. CS Herediano (CRC). 10.11.11.14. That's not great, but then again it is Costa Rica. 

[Edit]

So considering we have Junior Coaching at L20, I think that partly makes up for some of the other poor facility levels. I think a lot of us still think that the way the game used to work, (Junior Coaching  deals with CA and Your Recruitment deals with PA), is still how the game works now. SI have told us that the facilities impact things equally now, (I'm not convinced if I'm honest), but I also don't actually know how things work now. (I really need to start running experiments). 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Jimbokav1971

[Sonic Youth]

A lot of drama has happened!

Crespo deal looks interesting, though wasn’t expecting the board to stick their noses in the mix that early. Got a reasonable deal, especially if you get him back next season for free.

I guess that excitement affected the form. The gap looks clear enough to stay up still 

Looking forward to reading your research dive into intakes v’s facilities too 

[Jimbokav1971]

7 hours ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

NxGn 2029. 

I mentioned to @Thebakerthat I would look at the next NxGn award when it came up and we have just got here so I will look at the clubs where each player originated from and then have a look at their facilities. I haven't looked at any of them yet so this might be a very boring post that tells us nothing. 

1. 18yo AML from (BUL currently at Trabzonspor A.Ş (TUR).and came through their Academy. Their facilities are 14.10.13.7
2. 19yo DC from (BEL) currently at Eupen (BEL) and came through their Academy. Their facilities are 11.0.13.11 That's not a typo. Their Youth Facilities is rated 0.  That doesn't look right. Actually, the Youth Facilities are rated at "Good" which is level 12/13. What appears to be causing a problem here is that their Youth Facilities appear to be rented.  I haven't seen that before. 

3. 19yo MC/AML from (ESP) currently at Udinese (ITA) but came through the Academy at Villareal (ESP). Their facilities are 16.16.18.19.
4. 19yo AML from (SUI) currently at Norwich (ENG) on loan from Chelsea (ENG) but came through the Academy at Young Boys (SUI). Their facilities are 10.10.15.17.
5. 19yo AMR from (URU) currently at Chelsea (ENG) but came through the Academy at Defensor Sporting (URU). Their facilities are 9.15.19.20.
6. 18yo MC from (ITA) currently at Fiorentina (ITA) and came through the Academy. Their facilities are 20.19.16.16.
7. 19yo AML from (ENG) currently at Man City (ENG) and came through their Academy. Their facilities are 20.20.19.20.
8. 17yo MC from (SVK) currently at Slovan Bratislava (SVK) and came through their Academy. Their facilities are 13.12.13.18.
9. 17yo DM from (FRA) currently at Nantes (FRA) on loan from Olympique Lyonnais (FRA). Their facilities are 19.19.18.20.
10. 18yo SC from (GER) currently at Eintracht Braunschweig (GER) on loan from FC Bayern (GER) and he came through their Academy. Their facilities are 19.19.19.20.
11. 18yo DC from (ESP) currently at Barcelona (ESP) and came through their Academy. Their facilities are 17.18.20.20.
12. 18yo SC from (ITA) currently at AS Roma (ITA) but came through the Academy at Regina (ITA). Their facilities are 11.11.11.11.
13. 17yo SC from (ESP) currently at Mutilvera (ESP) on loan from R.Madrid (ESP) and came through their Academy. Their facilities are 17.17.18.19.
14. 19yo MR from (EGY) currently at Parthenope (ITA) which must be Lazio. He came through the Academy at Ismaily (EGY). Their facilities are 14.13.13.18.
15. 18yo DR from (GER) currently at Hoffenheim (GER) and he came through their Academy. Their facilities are 17.17.16.19.
16. 19yo MC from (ENG) currently at Norwich (ENG) on loan from Man City (ENG) and he came through their Academy. Their facilities are 19.19.18.20.
17. 18yo MR from (ENG) currently at Bristol City (ENG) on loan from A.Villa (ENG) and he came through their Academy. Their facilities are 18.17.17.20.
18. 19yo SC from (POR) currently at Liverpool (ENG) but came through the Academy at Santa Clara (POR). Their facilities are 9.8.11.9.
19. 19yo AMR from (CHN) currently at AS Monaco (FRA) and came through their Academy. Their facilities are 19.19.18.18.
20. 18yo DL from (ITA) currently at Amiens (FRA) and came through their Academy. Their facilities are 10.11.12.12. That's not very good. 
Let's speed this up a little. 
21. Barca (ESP).
22. Charleroi (BEL). 13.14.12.14.
23. Toulouse (FRA). 
24. Bayer Leverkusen (GER).
25. Penarol (URU). 11.16.15.14.
26. Benfica (POR).
27. Dunajska Streda (SVK). 14.13.13.15.
28. Tigres (MEX). 14.12.13.14.
29. R.Madrid (ESP).
30. Benfica (POR).
31. Metz (FRA). 11.15.14.14.
32. Boca Unidos (ARG). 12.11.5.8. Now this is amazing that this club generated a wonderkid. 
33. Vitoria (POR).
34. River (ARG).
35. C Sportivo Luqueño (PAR). 11.11.12.16. 
36. Bristol City. 15.14.13.11.
37. Fluminense (BRA). 13.13.14.18. (We're at #37 and that's the 1st Brazilian on the list). 
38. Maribor (SVN). 14.14.14.19.
39. Palmeiras (BRA). 18.15.15.17.
40. Santos (BRA) 16.13.14.20.
41. Malaga (ESP). 14.14.16.14.
42. Red Bull Bragantino (BRA). 12.11.11.13. That's not very good. 
43. Botev Plovdiv (BUL). 16.16.15.17.
44. Inter (ITA).
45. Kenk (BEL). 17.18.18.20.
46. Porto (POR).
47. Hertha Berlin (GER). 20.20.17.18.
48. Vallecano (ESP). 14.15.15.14.
49. Derby (ENG). 16.14.14.15.
50. CS Herediano (CRC). 10.11.11.14. That's not great, but then again it is Costa Rica. 

[Edit]

So considering we have Junior Coaching at L20, I think that partly makes up for some of the other poor facility levels. I think a lot of us still think that the way the game used to work, (Junior Coaching  deals with CA and Your Recruitment deals with PA), is still how the game works now. SI have told us that the facilities impact things equally now, (I'm not convinced if I'm honest), but I also don't actually know how things work now. (I really need to start running experiments). 

I was thinking about this last night while I was going through it, but I didn't have time to fully post my thoughts because it was late. 

I think the fact that 1 of our facilities is completely maxed out at L20 is significant, even if the others are lagging a little behind. For a start it brings the value of the total facilities up significantly.

Our "Total Facilities" add up to 42, which is competitive with some of the poorer facilities on the above list, and we don't know whether having 10.10.12.12 is better than having 8.8.20.6 at this stage. If I was to hazard a guess I would suggest that the optimum way to spread 42 facility points ton generate the best intake, (just to generate them, not to actually develop them), is to have them at 1.1.20.20 (so all the value stuck into the Junior Coaching and Youth Recruitment), but maybe I'm under-valuing Youth Facilities here so maybe it should be something like this. 

Youth Facilities. 13
Training Facilities. 1
Junior Coaching. 14
Youth Recruitment. 14

That puts all the "value" of the facilities into the generation of the intake rather than their development. Knowing how expensive facilities can be though, I wonder what something like this might be able to generate. 

Youth Facilities. 1
Training Facilities. 1
Junior Coaching. 20
Youth Recruitment. 20

Compare that to our actual Facilities, (which have the same total value). 

Youth Facilities. 8
Training Facilities. 8
Junior Coaching. 20
Youth Recruitment. 6

In old money, out facilities would generate players with good CA but poor PA, and while K can still see some little example of that in terms of the CA of some players coming through, I also think that it's certainly different to the way that it used to work and the way that my mind still automatically thinks it still works, (even though SI have told us different). 

The things is that we're told by SI that the value of all these facilities is "equal", but then again they tell us that the best player to take penalties is the player with the best penalty taking attribute, so they clearly don't know/understand everything about their own game.  Unfortunately, ity means that I now take everything they say with a pinch of salt. They may want it to work this way, but whether or not it actually does is something different entirely. The problem though, is that while I'm skeptical that it works as described, I also don't have enough information to completely form my own opinion as to how it actually works. At the moment it's as much a lack of understanding on my part as anything else. 

I really need to do an experiment to look at this......... 

[ToMexico!!]

14 hours ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

I really don't think it's likely that he's going to be that good. I mean don't get me wrong, we know he's decent, but I would be astonished if he was proper top end. 

I think you could be surprised, Premier League reputation could see his value rocket and remember he is dubbed the next Raul, he must have a decent PA. 

[Jimbokav1971]

Mar 2029.

LaLiga SmartBank. What a great month. The stand-out result seems to be be the 7 goal thrashing of Badajoz, but they're awful, (already relegated), and actually the big performance was the 4-2 away win against Las Palmas at the start of the month. They are a good team but Crespo destroyed them! We're up to 11th, (which is the highest we've been since the opening month), and 9 points clear of relegation. Even though they are 9 games still left to play, I think we've already secured our safety. 

Goal-scoring GK's. we're really not creating too many chances for our GK at the moment. 

Finances. 

Records. Love it! 

[Jimbokav1971]

8 minutes ago, ToMexico!! said:

I think you could be surprised, Premier League reputation could see his value rocket and remember he is dubbed the next Raul, he must have a decent PA. 

I'm not sure that being dubbed the next anyone means anything. I've seen some proper rubbish players be "dubbed" the next whoever. We will see. I would love him to be amazing and earn us a fortune from our 40% profit, but I really can't see it. 

To just put some flesh on the bones of that idea.....

If he sells for £10M then we get £3.4M
If he sells for £20M then we get £7.4M
If he sells for £50M then we get £19.4M

Any decent striker is worth £10M aren't they? 

[Thebaker]

In the premier league a rubbish striker goes for £20M, so i can't see less than that.

IRL look at Man City turning down £20M and wanting more for Liam Delap, a 20yo with only 6 games in his career and who is now not ripping it up in the championship . Solanke, Ibe and Brewster are recent Liverpool rejects for big money.

[Jimbokav1971]

1 minute ago, Thebaker said:

In the premier league a rubbish striker goes for £20M, so i can't see less than that.

IRL look at Man City turning down £20M and wanting more for Liam Delap, a 20yo with only 6 games in his career and who is now not ripping it up in the championship . Solanke, Ibe and Brewster are recent Liverpool rejects for big money.

Yep. I just want him to play. The real disaster is if he goes there, doesn't play, and just stagnates. The difference in him stagnating there with their facilities and stagnating here with ours is that he will at least reach whatever his PA is there. Moves like this are good for the storyline of the thread, even though I would have much preferred to have kept him. 

[Jimbokav1971]

4 hours ago, Sonic Youth said:

A lot of drama has happened!

Crespo deal looks interesting, though wasn’t expecting the board to stick their noses in the mix that early. Got a reasonable deal, especially if you get him back next season for free.

I guess that excitement affected the form. The gap looks clear enough to stay up still 

Looking forward to reading your research dive into intakes v’s facilities too 

I can't really complain about the Crespo deal. I know he had a £5M min fee release clause, but that was probably a little unrealistic and I just have to be happy that we got more than the £500k, (which is what the original clause was). 

There is lots that seems... unusual with regards to Youth Intakes so I will absolutely be doing some experiments, (while watching the World Cup probably). 

[Jimbokav1971]

Youth Intake day. Apr 2029. 

Preview. Who cares what this says. It lies! 

Summary. A Golden generation? Really? 

Squad by PA. Ok, this isn't good. This isn't good at all. This is a rubbish intake! 

• There is not a single FGN Nationality. 
• There is not a single 2nd Nationality. 
• There are 3x (Unamb) players, (and their (Det) is also in single figures). 
• In addition to the 3x (Unamb) players, there are also 3x (L.Det) players. 
• In addition to the 3x (Unamb) and 3x (L.Det) players, we also have 2 more players with (L.Det) but who are labelled something else, (Bal & Temp). 
• We have 2x players with 5.0 PA. 
• We have 1x player with 2.0 CA.

The preview told me that there were 2 forwards who are considered fine prospects. I'm still searching for them. Can anyone see them? 

We're currently not playing with wingers, (we've got 3 up front), but that was designed to help Crespo score and once he goes I will probably be looking for something different. (29a) Gil looks like he can play up front or out wide, and I actually like the look of him as a striker. He's no Crespo, but then again who is? Having said that, I think I've commented previously that when Crespo came through the intake he wanted a £500,000 min fee release clause in his initial pre-contract, (that I upped to £5M). I'm really keen to use this min fee release clause info for my benefit if I can understand it, so I was intrigued when (29a) Gil asked for an £850k min fee release clause in his contract,  it certainly caught my eye. (Half as good again as Crespo........) In any case, rather than boost it up to £5M like I did with Crespo, I just boosted it to £2.5M to try and encourage clubs to use it. It's got me thinking that what players ask for at this stage must be an indication of..... something, and yeah I know personality and agent and loads of other things will play a factor, but if Crespo was asking for £500k min fee clause in his 1st contract, what is it about (29a) Gil that makes him think he needs and £850k release clause? 

(29b) Romero is the 2nd player who is rated at 5.0 PA but I'm really not keen on him. He's Unamb with Low Det and that's going to hammer his development. Attributes are ok, but even if he has good PA, it's going to be very hard for him to reach it. 

In case you're unaware, every contract in Spain comes with a min fee release clause included, so let's look at the clauses in this years intake. 

The problem is though that you can only see the value of the clause once they are actually on the contract, (aged 17 and above), When 15 year olds sign a pre-contract, (that comes into effect on their 16th birthday), all you can see is the detail of their Youth contract, (that they are on up until their 16th birthday). With that in mind, this is what this intake looks like in terms of contracts. 

There are a few things to notice here. 

• As mentioned we have 4 players aged 16 so 4 players with visible min fee release clauses and when you consider that we know Crespo asked for £500,000, (29d) (29e) & (29f) have asked of £110k, (suggesting to me that they are nowhere near as good as him, and that's not really a surprise is it). 
• The 4th player on a Pro contract is (29a) and he asked for a min fee release clause of £850,000 (that I upped to £2.5M). It will be interesting to see if he is actually better than Crespo, (and the problem with that is of course that we don't know how good Crespo actually is). 
• You might also notice that although the intake is only 3 days old, we can see that some of the CA/PA values have been changed already. Look at (29d). Initially he was rated at 3.5 PA, but already he's been downgraded from 3.5 PA to 2.5 PA. 
• The flip side of that is of course (29g), who was rated at 3.5 PA, and he's been upgraded to 4.0. 
• You might notice that there are 0 players with either a yearly wage rise or a promotion wage rise. I hate them and refuse to include them where possible. 
• The Agreed Playing Time indicates that only (29a) expects to be playing 1st Team football anytime soon. 

What I also want to do is look at the previous intake, (from 2028), just by way of comparison. 

This is the same screen but for the previous intake, noe a year on. 

• (28c) came through ranked 3rd by PA, but is now ranked 1st.
• (28a) came through 1st ranked by PA, but is now ranked 3rd. 
• Nobody in this intake has a Yearly wage rise or a Promotion wage rise either. 
• We know that (28c) was given a £5M release clause, (like Crespo). I can't remember what he asked for, and I just copied what I have to Crespo. 
• The Transfer valuation of (28c) is higher than (28a) & (28b), but is that a knock-on effect of the mind fee clause I've set and the much bigger wage he's on? Yes, it probably is. 

[MadCatPT]

Aren't the positions you get based on the person handling the youth intake favorite formation/styles? What are the ones for the person handling your youth intake?

[Jimbokav1971]

5 minutes ago, MadCatPT said:

Aren't the positions you get based on the person handling the youth intake favorite formation/styles? What are the ones for the person handling your youth intake?

Yeah, they are certainly influenced by that, but because I don't really know what formation I want to use going forward, it doesn't really matter what his preference is. At the moment I'm playing a 433 with Crespo flanked by a DLF on each side, but that was designed to help him score and as soon as he leaves I will be looking for something else. I personally like a 442, (but I couldn't get it working in season 1), and I particularly don't like the 4231 wide, (because I think it's over-powered). I think I want to play 3 at the back at some point in this save, but we can't possibly do that at the moment, so.... does it really matter what positions we get through? 

[Jimbokav1971]

Apr 2029. 

LaLiga SmartBank. 2 good wins at home, (and Crespo scores in all 4 games). We're 16 points clear of relegation with 5 games still to play, so I must have missed the message that we avoided relegation, (or it was so comfortable that a message wasn't even triggered). Crespo has now scored 33 league goals in 35(2) league appearances this season. He turned 18 a month ago. In total he has scored 55 goals in 64(9) appearances. We are going to miss him soooo much and relegation next season is highly likely. 

Goal-scoring GK's.

 

Finances. 

Records. 

[MadCatPT]

6 minutes ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

Yeah, they are certainly influenced by that, but because I don't really know what formation I want to use going forward, it doesn't really matter what his preference is. At the moment I'm playing a 433 with Crespo flanked by a DLF on each side, but that was designed to help him score and as soon as he leaves I will be looking for something else. I personally like a 442, (but I couldn't get it working in season 1), and I particularly don't like the 4231 wide, (because I think it's over-powered). I think I want to play 3 at the back at some point in this save, but we can't possibly do that at the moment, so.... does it really matter what positions we get through? 

I only play the Youth Only challenge normally, never have mode more than 5 Seasons, never been promoted, this year I'm in first with a team that I would expect to be fighting against relegation in the VNS. It's a Wing Play preset of a 4-3-3 DM I tweaked around when I rotated the grays in with a 15 player squad with 2 GK in the first year. I even get ties with several grays in. May be heading into a promoted and relegated and fired next year, but it feels OP.

[Thebaker]

Gil could be the successor to Crespo, looks really good as a DLP or an AF if his shooting improves. Need to get his strength up to compete for a first team spot.

Romero looks poor and i would not be surprised to see his perceived potential go down.

[Jimbokav1971]

1 hour ago, MadCatPT said:

I only play the Youth Only challenge normally, never have mode more than 5 Seasons, never been promoted, this year I'm in first with a team that I would expect to be fighting against relegation in the VNS. It's a Wing Play preset of a 4-3-3 DM I tweaked around when I rotated the grays in with a 15 player squad with 2 GK in the first year. I even get ties with several grays in. May be heading into a promoted and relegated and fired next year, but it feels OP.

I can't remember the last time I played 4231 wide, but let's be honest, you are already giving yourself quite a tough game playing youth only so I wouldn't worry about doing it for a nanosecond. Just because I don't do it doesn't mean that nobody else should. 

[Jimbokav1971]

54 minutes ago, Thebaker said:

Gil could be the successor to Crespo, looks really good as a DLP or an AF if his shooting improves. Need to get his strength up to compete for a first team spot.

Romero looks poor and i would not be surprised to see his perceived potential go down.

I see Gil more as an AF simply because we need an AF more than we need a DLP. From the perspective of the save too, it helps to have an Academy product banging the goals in. 

I'm not in the slightest bit concerned with his strength, (i haven't even looked at it so will look now). It's 4, but I think Crespo was only 5 to start with and is 6 now. Yes of course it's important, but it's much less important than other stuff. I really like his determination, dribbling & passing, and it's just such a shame that his technique is poor. Ah well. Can't have everything. 

Romero. You could well be right, but he's the next best of what we've got so.... that's that really. 

[MadCatPT]

7 minutes ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

I can't remember the last time I played 4231 wide, but let's be honest, you are already giving yourself quite a tough game playing youth only so I wouldn't worry about doing it for a nanosecond. Just because I don't do it doesn't mean that nobody else should. 

I don't think it's the same formation, it's a 4-1(DM)-2(M)-2(Wingers)-1 formation, even if it evolved from what the Assistant suggested it seems OP, of course I will be doing whatever I can to get the best victory chance, most of my players are already on contracts that I can't offer them, so it's going be a fun save, if short, either way. No longer on first also.

[Jimbokav1971]

1 hour ago, MadCatPT said:

I don't think it's the same formation, it's a 4-1(DM)-2(M)-2(Wingers)-1 formation, even if it evolved from what the Assistant suggested it seems OP, of course I will be doing whatever I can to get the best victory chance, most of my players are already on contracts that I can't offer them, so it's going be a fun save, if short, either way. No longer on first also.

Nice. Sounds good. Have you got a thread going? If so, feel free to link it in here. 

[Jellico73]

12 hours ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

I was thinking about this last night while I was going through it, but I didn't have time to fully post my thoughts because it was late. 

I think the fact that 1 of our facilities is completely maxed out at L20 is significant, even if the others are lagging a little behind. For a start it brings the value of the total facilities up significantly.

Our "Total Facilities" add up to 42, which is competitive with some of the poorer facilities on the above list, and we don't know whether having 10.10.12.12 is better than having 8.8.20.6 at this stage. If I was to hazard a guess I would suggest that the optimum way to spread 42 facility points ton generate the best intake, (just to generate them, not to actually develop them), is to have them at 1.1.20.20 (so all the value stuck into the Junior Coaching and Youth Recruitment), but maybe I'm under-valuing Youth Facilities here so maybe it should be something like this. 

Youth Facilities. 13
Training Facilities. 1
Junior Coaching. 14
Youth Recruitment. 14

That puts all the "value" of the facilities into the generation of the intake rather than their development. Knowing how expensive facilities can be though, I wonder what something like this might be able to generate. 

Youth Facilities. 1
Training Facilities. 1
Junior Coaching. 20
Youth Recruitment. 20

Compare that to our actual Facilities, (which have the same total value). 

Youth Facilities. 8
Training Facilities. 8
Junior Coaching. 20
Youth Recruitment. 6

In old money, out facilities would generate players with good CA but poor PA, and while K can still see some little example of that in terms of the CA of some players coming through, I also think that it's certainly different to the way that it used to work and the way that my mind still automatically thinks it still works, (even though SI have told us different). 

The things is that we're told by SI that the value of all these facilities is "equal", but then again they tell us that the best player to take penalties is the player with the best penalty taking attribute, so they clearly don't know/understand everything about their own game.  Unfortunately, ity means that I now take everything they say with a pinch of salt. They may want it to work this way, but whether or not it actually does is something different entirely. The problem though, is that while I'm skeptical that it works as described, I also don't have enough information to completely form my own opinion as to how it actually works. At the moment it's as much a lack of understanding on my part as anything else. 

I really need to do an experiment to look at this......... 

I crunched the numbers a bit differently on the View From the Touchline discord, and while the results are OK I think they could be better.  Will try and post it when I get back in front of the home computer.

[Jimbokav1971]

May 2029. 

LaLiga SmartBank. What a great month!  The icing on the cake was me giving Gil his debut against Coruña and him responding with both goals to win the game. 

Goal-scoring GK's.

 

FInances. 

Records. 

He's been in decent form for the U19's playing centrally. 

And took that form with him into the 1st Team where he was played on the right of a 3 up front. 

[Rikulec]

6 hours ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

Having said that, I think I've commented previously that when Crespo came through the intake he wanted a £500,000 min fee release clause in his initial pre-contract, (that I upped to £5M). I'm really keen to use this min fee release clause info for my benefit if I can understand it, so I was intrigued when (29a) Gil asked for an £850k min fee release clause in his contract,  it certainly caught my eye. (Half as good again as Crespo........) In any case, rather than boost it up to £5M like I did with Crespo, I just boosted it to £2.5M to try and encourage clubs to use it. It's got me thinking that what players ask for at this stage must be an indication of..... something, and yeah I know personality and agent and loads of other things will play a factor, but if Crespo was asking for £500k min fee clause in his 1st contract, what is it about (29a) Gil that makes him think he needs and £850k release clause? 

I think this might also be influenced by your club's reputation being considerably higher now than it was when Crespo came through.

[Jimbokav1971]

9 minutes ago, Rikulec said:

I think this might also be influenced by your club's reputation being considerably higher now than it was when Crespo came through.

Quite right. There's so many variables and the club rarely stays static in any way for long. 

[Jellico73]

Jim,

Here is what I cam up with, and I will admit I am not sure how correct it is, in fact it is mostly guess work:

More for my own curiosity that anything else, I will also admit I may have gone way to far In the Weeds on this one, or I am reinventing the wheel...or I need to embrace the power of "AND"
Take a Teams Training Facilities, grade them on a scale of 1 (Poor) to 10 (State of the Art)
Take Newgen Quality (Limited    =1, Basic=2, Fairly Basic =3, Adequate =4, Good=5, Excellent=6, Great =7, Superb=8) but because we are using a base 10 scale multiply those by 1.25, so Limited = 1.2 and Superb = 10
Take Youth Recruitment Level (Limited    Basic =1 , Fairly Basic =2, Adequate=3,  etc etc )but because we are using a base 10 scale multiply those by 1.25 as well.
Youth Rating + Youth Potential / 2 Gives Avg Youth Score
Overall Youth Score is (Training + NewgenQ)*Youth Recruitment Level
Overall Rating is Avg Youth Rating * Overall Youth Score (Rounded for ease)
So, if you Sort by Overall Rating you get this:

Which at First glance "looks" right, but now I think I am weighing Youth Rating/Potential wrong.  Liefering being the outlier thats causing me to say that.
What I failed to take into account on this version was the countries investment in soccer.  The other thing think I am looking at wrong is how Youth Recruitment and Youth Rating worked together, and how Training facilities work with Potential. 

At the end of the day its all guesswork.  Fun guesswork yes, but still guesswork.

Jellico

[Jimbokav1971]

Jun 2029. 

LaLiga SmartBank. Our form deserted us at the end and Huesca absolutely demolished us.

Really pleased to have finished as high as 10th this season. Only the Champions Tenerife scored more goals than us, but you can't concede 1.5 goals per game on average and expect to be successful. 

Goal-scoring GK's. 

Finances.  It's interesting that we've been given a £679,000 transfer budget, and will get to keep all of the £1.5M Crespo cash when it goes through. I'm surprised at that. 

(27a) Crespo * had a really good season and scored 34 league goals, (tying with a Colombian for the Golden Boot), but he honestly should have scored 50+. I don't think we will get him back on loan next season, (but won't turn it down if it happens). He's going to leave a huge hole in our squad. 

[Jimbokav1971]

9 minutes ago, Jellico73 said:

Jim,

Here is what I cam up with, and I will admit I am not sure how correct it is, in fact it is mostly guess work:

More for my own curiosity that anything else, I will also admit I may have gone way to far In the Weeds on this one, or I am reinventing the wheel...or I need to embrace the power of "AND"
Take a Teams Training Facilities, grade them on a scale of 1 (Poor) to 10 (State of the Art)
Take Newgen Quality (Limited    =1, Basic=2, Fairly Basic =3, Adequate =4, Good=5, Excellent=6, Great =7, Superb=8) but because we are using a base 10 scale multiply those by 1.25, so Limited = 1.2 and Superb = 10
Take Youth Recruitment Level (Limited    Basic =1 , Fairly Basic =2, Adequate=3,  etc etc )but because we are using a base 10 scale multiply those by 1.25 as well.
Youth Rating + Youth Potential / 2 Gives Avg Youth Score
Overall Youth Score is (Training + NewgenQ)*Youth Recruitment Level
Overall Rating is Avg Youth Rating * Overall Youth Score (Rounded for ease)
So, if you Sort by Overall Rating you get this:

Which at First glance "looks" right, but now I think I am weighing Youth Rating/Potential wrong.  Liefering being the outlier thats causing me to say that.
What I failed to take into account on this version was the countries investment in soccer.  The other thing think I am looking at wrong is how Youth Recruitment and Youth Rating worked together, and how Training facilities work with Potential. 

At the end of the day its all guesswork.  Fun guesswork yes, but still guesswork.

Jellico

There so much info here. This is brilliant. But the only thing is I'm not 100% sure what it is your trying to show? Sorry. 

Let me go through this slowly please so I know how you are thinking. 

1. I know that you say Liefering are the outliers, (I had to check who they are), but I don't think they are the only ones. RB Salzburg, Spurs, Legia, Valerenga all seem too highly weighted, but that's only from me looking at that 1st column. 
2. Training is the 2nd column but the 3rd is named "Newgens", but I think that's "Youth Facilities" right? They both have 10 levels, but of course there are a total of 20 levels within those 10 levels. I'm not sure simplifying from 20 down to 10 helps here. 
3. I'm not sure what the 4th column is. 
4. Youth Recruitment is fine. 
5. Again, I don't know what the 6th column is. 
6. No, I'm lost here. I don't know what "Youth Rating" or "Potential" relate to. 

Really sorry if I'm being dim. 

I think things such as Youth Rating, Game/Match importance and also finances will play a part. 

If I'm completely honest with you, my brain struggles to cope with comparisons of clubs producing Newgens in different Nations/Continents, and my early experiments will focus only on clubs in 1 single Nation. 

Something that I have struggled to get my head round, is players who are produced with multiple Nationalities or where they are produced in a Nation other than their own. In FM21 I did a Tier 10 save in England and the number of foreigners, (specifically English players with FGN 2nd Nationalities, or FGN players with ENG as a 2nd Nationality), really surprised me with their quality. It got to the stage where I really focussed on these dual Nationality players because experience had taught me that they were far more likely to have a decent PA. I don't understand why that happened, (like so much else).

[Jimbokav1971]

I'm delighted to be proved wrong. Jun 2029. 

The deal that took Crespo to Liverpool has gone through, and I'm overjoyed to be proved wrong and welcome him back to the club on loan for another full season on £0 wages. 

Yes, I can see how much he's valued at after the move, (but let's try and ignore that for now). 

Let me just remind you what the deal was. 

So let's check our bank balance. 

Eh? Where's our £1.5M? 

They have only paid £500,000 up front. I wonder if the rest is being paid in installments? 

Yeah. 3 yearly installments of £0.5M. What a [insert swear word] deal this is.  It never said that anywhere because I checked.  I can't even spend the money on Facilities because half of the 1st installment has already gone on clearing our overdraft. 

Absolutely fuming!  The joy of getting him back in on loan is well and truly battered into oblivion my us getting the cash in installments rather than up front. This bloomin El Presidente is an eegit! 

Facilities. 

[Jellico73]

6 hours ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

There so much info here. This is brilliant. But the only thing is I'm not 100% sure what it is your trying to show? Sorry. 

Let me go through this slowly please so I know how you are thinking. 

1. I know that you say Liefering are the outliers, (I had to check who they are), but I don't think they are the only ones. RB Salzburg, Spurs, Legia, Valerenga all seem too highly weighted, but that's only from me looking at that 1st column. 
2. Training is the 2nd column but the 3rd is named "Newgens", but I think that's "Youth Facilities" right? They both have 10 levels, but of course there are a total of 20 levels within those 10 levels. I'm not sure simplifying from 20 down to 10 helps here. 
3. I'm not sure what the 4th column is. 
4. Youth Recruitment is fine. 
5. Again, I don't know what the 6th column is. 
6. No, I'm lost here. I don't know what "Youth Rating" or "Potential" relate to. 

Really sorry if I'm being dim. 

I think things such as Youth Rating, Game/Match importance and also finances will play a part. 

If I'm completely honest with you, my brain struggles to cope with comparisons of clubs producing Newgens in different Nations/Continents, and my early experiments will focus only on clubs in 1 single Nation. 

Something that I have struggled to get my head round, is players who are produced with multiple Nationalities or where they are produced in a Nation other than their own. In FM21 I did a Tier 10 save in England and the number of foreigners, (specifically English players with FGN 2nd Nationalities, or FGN players with ENG as a 2nd Nationality), really surprised me with their quality. It got to the stage where I really focussed on these dual Nationality players because experience had taught me that they were far more likely to have a decent PA. I don't understand why that happened, (like so much else).

The data is all from soritoutsi who update these every year.

Training is the rating of the club Training Facilities, Newgens is the quality of Newgens the generates, youth recruiment is how good/extensive that is, Rating is how good the Youth Academies are (taking into account Junior Coaching) Potential is how good they can be.  

At least thats how I understood it to be.  I could well be reading/interpreting something wrong.  

The hidden numbers not given are the countries youth rating as a whole, and how well football is regarded in the country, but you can get those thru the editor.  I was looking at a way to quantify the list a bit better, as an example Man City is going to rank first, because they have the highest rating across the board, but when looking at comparing say, Genk, Fiorentina and Dynamo Kiev, which team has the better youth setup and why? 

For all I know it could be an exercise in Futility.  :-)

[Jimbokav1971]

1 hour ago, Jellico73 said:

The data is all from soritoutsi who update these every year.

Training is the rating of the club Training Facilities, (1) Newgens is the quality of Newgens the generates, youth recruiment is how good/extensive that is, Rating is how good the Youth Academies are (taking into account Junior Coaching) Potential is how good they can be.  

At least thats how I understood it to be.  I could well be reading/interpreting something wrong.  

The hidden numbers not given are the countries youth rating as a whole, and how well football is regarded in the country, but you can get those thru the editor.  I was looking at a way to quantify the list a bit better, as an example Man City is going to rank first, because they have the highest rating across the board, but when looking at comparing say, Genk, Fiorentina and Dynamo Kiev, which team has the better youth setup and why? 

For all I know it could be an exercise in Futility.  :-)

(1) Newgens is the quality of Newgens the generates. I don't think this is right. I think this is Youth Facilities. 

In particular I didn't understand the single fig numbers in the 3rd and 5th columns. 

I know about the Nations Youth rating, (Spain is 145 for example), but in your graph You have the R.Madrid & Barca with a Youth Rating of 86 and 85, when I know that the Spanish Youth Rating is 145, and if they are merging Youth rating and something else together, (like Nation game importance for example), then it not only assumes that these 2 areas have the same importance, (I don't think they do), but by then somehow concentrating them to make it a score out of 100, (I have no idea how they have done that), then all that does is highlight the inaccuracy. The other thing is, If R.Madrid & Barca are both in the same Nation, how do they have slightly different scores in this area? 

Would you mind giving me a link to where SortitouSI post this data so I can have a look myself and try and understand it myself please? Then I might be able to come back and comment more. Apologies if I'm being stupid. 

[Thebaker]

Youth rating is very important, its also why smaller clubs in Spain can generate such great players. Certainly Spain seems to get much better players through than in England for example unless you have the very best facilities.

I believe than FGN newgens take the youth rating of the country they come from along with your facilities, no idea how 2nd Nationalties are worked out, maybe its all on the primary nationality.

[Sonic Youth]

Does second nationality have something to do with HoYD/youth team staff?

Gil looks a good prospect, and looking forward to seeing him in the team with Crespo 

[MadCatPT]

And here was I thinking of buying the editor, creating a save, put all at 1, holiday, check the ca and pa, repeat 5-10 times, start playing with the numbers to see if they work together or not.

That is some serious analysis.

[Tbarnes88]

12 hours ago, Jellico73 said:

Jim,

Here is what I cam up with, and I will admit I am not sure how correct it is, in fact it is mostly guess work:

More for my own curiosity that anything else, I will also admit I may have gone way to far In the Weeds on this one, or I am reinventing the wheel...or I need to embrace the power of "AND"
Take a Teams Training Facilities, grade them on a scale of 1 (Poor) to 10 (State of the Art)
Take Newgen Quality (Limited    =1, Basic=2, Fairly Basic =3, Adequate =4, Good=5, Excellent=6, Great =7, Superb=8) but because we are using a base 10 scale multiply those by 1.25, so Limited = 1.2 and Superb = 10
Take Youth Recruitment Level (Limited    Basic =1 , Fairly Basic =2, Adequate=3,  etc etc )but because we are using a base 10 scale multiply those by 1.25 as well.
Youth Rating + Youth Potential / 2 Gives Avg Youth Score
Overall Youth Score is (Training + NewgenQ)*Youth Recruitment Level
Overall Rating is Avg Youth Rating * Overall Youth Score (Rounded for ease)
So, if you Sort by Overall Rating you get this:

Which at First glance "looks" right, but now I think I am weighing Youth Rating/Potential wrong.  Liefering being the outlier thats causing me to say that.
What I failed to take into account on this version was the countries investment in soccer.  The other thing think I am looking at wrong is how Youth Recruitment and Youth Rating worked together, and how Training facilities work with Potential. 

At the end of the day its all guesswork.  Fun guesswork yes, but still guesswork.

Jellico

Feels like this is missing a couple of important variables, which is the Youth Rating of a Nation and Club Reputation. Lierfering are not an outlier when you take in to account they have the 2nd best hard values in their nation but at the lower end of the reputation curve. And both them and Salzburg for their lower nation youth rating.

[Jimbokav1971]

3 hours ago, Thebaker said:

Youth rating is very important, its also why smaller clubs in Spain can generate such great players. Certainly Spain seems to get much better players through than in England for example unless you have the very best facilities.

I believe than FGN newgens take the youth rating of the country they come from along with your facilities, no idea how 2nd Nationalties are worked out, maybe its all on the primary nationality.

There's an awful lot you need to take into account just to get a pretty basic understanding of how it works and why. I know part of how SI says it works, but I'm not convinced that it works as intended, and of course there is much more that I just don't know at all. 

FGN Newgens are generated using the Youth Rating of the Nation of their 1st Nationality, (I think), but what influences why they come through at a FGN club and which FGN Nation that club is in I have no clue about. 

[Jimbokav1971]

2 hours ago, Sonic Youth said:

Does second nationality have something to do with HoYD/youth team staff?

Gil looks a good prospect, and looking forward to seeing him in the team with Crespo 

Staff can influence 1st Nationalities, (or at least they could), but I don't think they influence 2nd Nationalities at all. 

Gil looks decent and had a fantastic debut. Fingers crossed he continues like that.