Please critique my 4-4-2

[mikcheck]

Hi there,

I just into a new adventure, with Groningen that is going through a bad time and far from being the best side in the league, but I want to try to succeed here.

I want to play a 442. What do you guys think about the roles/duties selection? I wanted to use a BBM for example, but I don't have the player for that.

Oh and this team has some troubles with team work. Many players lack that attribute.

Thank you.

@herne79 I was kind of inspired by your West Ham's 442. Do you mind to give your input here? 

Edited July 26, 2022 by mikcheck

[CARRERA]

40 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

Doesn't look too bad. Creative players are well distributed around the pitch. Holding Player in Midfield and a FB(s) for defensive stability. 

However, I would want to make use of the space on the left flank, thats created by the IW cutting inside. A FB(s) seems a bit too conservative. The Problem is though, a 4-4-2 isn't really made for both FB's being aggressive on the wings and you alread have a more attacking WB on the right as the WP also cuts inside and looks for space more centrally. So I'd suggest to keep the FB(s) and make the IW a Winger(a) instead.

I would also question the BWM as you don't really look for a more aggressive defensive style with a lowered LoE. Properbly a B2B or CM(s) your natural choice here.

[herne79]

46 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

What do you guys think about the roles/duties selection?

Best thing is to try it, although personally I never like a playmaker on the wing in a 442 - I’d prefer a playmaker (if I use one) in the centre where he can control play better with greater passing options.  That’s not saying it’s wrong to have one there, just personal preference.

50 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

I wanted to use a BBM for example, but I don't have the player for that.

If you have someone who can play in midfield with a bit of stamina and work rate then you could try the BBM role.  He may not be ideal for the role but he could do a job for you.  If you have someone who could play your defined BWM(s) role I don’t see why he couldn’t play as a BBM.

When testing the system keep an eye on your left flank.  Make sure the IW is getting the support he needs from your fullback especially.  It’s probably ok, especially if your fullback has the trait to get further forward and you are using the Positive mentality which will increase his mentality a little, but something to keep an eye on.

One other thing - throw it long and distribute to centre backs?  How far up field will your centre backs be? 

[Dotsworthy]

It seems fine to me if you are an underdog team, otherwise I'd be tempted to make it a little less conservative by changing the centre mid to support or WP to attack to give you an edge on the right hand side.

[mikcheck]

16 horas atrás, CARRERA disse:

Doesn't look too bad. Creative players are well distributed around the pitch. Holding Player in Midfield and a FB(s) for defensive stability. 

However, I would want to make use of the space on the left flank, thats created by the IW cutting inside. A FB(s) seems a bit too conservative. The Problem is though, a 4-4-2 isn't really made for both FB's being aggressive on the wings and you alread have a more attacking WB on the right as the WP also cuts inside and looks for space more centrally. So I'd suggest to keep the FB(s) and make the IW a Winger(a) instead.

I would also question the BWM as you don't really look for a more aggressive defensive style with a lowered LoE. Properbly a B2B or CM(s) your natural choice here.

Thanks!

Despite he's a FB(s), he already have gets forward trait. But yes, even though I'm really bad at spotting things and see what's wrong or not during the game, I need to try and see the behavior of that side, if there is lack of width.

Regarding the BWM, this is the player I have, would he be good enough to play B2B or even CM(s). His off the ball his bad and I think it's important for a B2B, at least.

 

 

16 horas atrás, herne79 disse:

Best thing is to try it, although personally I never like a playmaker on the wing in a 442 - I’d prefer a playmaker (if I use one) in the centre where he can control play better with greater passing options.  That’s not saying it’s wrong to have one there, just personal preference.

If you have someone who can play in midfield with a bit of stamina and work rate then you could try the BBM role.  He may not be ideal for the role but he could do a job for you.  If you have someone who could play your defined BWM(s) role I don’t see why he couldn’t play as a BBM.

When testing the system keep an eye on your left flank.  Make sure the IW is getting the support he needs from your fullback especially.  It’s probably ok, especially if your fullback has the trait to get further forward and you are using the Positive mentality which will increase his mentality a little, but something to keep an eye on.

One other thing - throw it long and distribute to centre backs?  How far up field will your centre backs be? 

Thanks!

About the playmaker on the wing, I've rarely tried it so far. When I use one, which is also rare, I usually put him in the middle.

As for the BWM player, you can see the picture above. I don't think he's really fits B2B role, very low off the ball, don't you think?

Yes I will try to keep and eye on the left flank, that is also why I have the CF(s) and the supporting midfielder there, so the CF(s) can help open up space for him to attack and the supporting midfielder can also help feed him the ball. Does it make sense?

About the centre backs  yeah I really don't know what to do there. I like the play to start from the centre backs, but at the same time, they are poor at passing and even composure. So maybe it's better to just leave it with no instructions?

 

[CARRERA]

56 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

Regarding the BWM, this is the player I have, would he be good enough to play B2B or even CM(s). His off the ball his bad and I think it's important for a B2B, at least.

 

what does the other look like? This one  could be doing well as a DLP(d). 

[herne79]

1 hour ago, mikcheck said:

As for the BWM player, you can see the picture above. I don't think he's really fits B2B role, very low off the ball, don't you think?

I quite happily play Declan Rice as a B2B and he starts with Off the Ball of 10.  Anyway, if you look at it like that your player doesn't really fit as a BWM either (those Traits).  Ideally he's more of a DLP but any player can play any role, they'll just play it different ways, but in this case his Traits are more of an issue than his attributes imo.  So perhaps a DLP(D) rather than the CM(D) and change the wide playmaker to a winger or WM.

But there's the thing - you'll get different opinions.  Just because I might do that doesn't mean you should.  What you have set up now might work ok so you don't need to change, but you haven't tried it so it's all just theory until you do.  These are just things to watch out for and potentially experiment with when you start .

[mikcheck]

2 horas atrás, CARRERA disse:

what does the other look like? This one  could be doing well as a DLP(d). 

The other guys looks like this:

But yes, I think it would work better if I swap them. The 1st guy playing as a DLP(s) and this one playing as a CM(s) or B2B. But I'm also looking for a better player here, a faster and younger one, mainly.

 

2 horas atrás, herne79 disse:

I quite happily play Declan Rice as a B2B and he starts with Off the Ball of 10.  Anyway, if you look at it like that your player doesn't really fit as a BWM either (those Traits).  Ideally he's more of a DLP but any player can play any role, they'll just play it different ways, but in this case his Traits are more of an issue than his attributes imo.  So perhaps a DLP(D) rather than the CM(D) and change the wide playmaker to a winger or WM.

But there's the thing - you'll get different opinions.  Just because I might do that doesn't mean you should.  What you have set up now might work ok so you don't need to change, but you haven't tried it so it's all just theory until you do.  These are just things to watch out for and potentially experiment with when you start .

I understand and now that I really look at the players and their traits, it definitely makes more sense to change their positions and roles, as I said above. The first one as a DLP(d) and the 2nd guy as a CM(s) or B2B. 

Of course that it's just theory and I've only played 2 games, but I will take the role change you suggested because it makes more sense and it fits the players better.

Regarding  GK distribution? I normally like to play to my centre backs, but this time is different because they're not comfortable nor composed with the ball, but at the same time I don't want him to always be kicking long, with the risk of losing possession many times. So I guess that the better option here could be no instructions at all? 

[herne79]

41 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

So I guess that the better option here could be no instructions at all?

In my opinion it's always better to start with no instructions unless a) you want your team to play in a certain style or b) you want them to do something specific, usually in relation to issues you may notice during matches.  So in this example I'd suggest not giving your keeper any instructions unless he is indeed wasting too much possession via long kicks.  Using a DLP who is coming deep may help reduce long kicks anyway as your players should tend to seek him out for a pass .

[EnigMattic1]

5 hours ago, mikcheck said:

Thanks!

Despite he's a FB(s), he already have gets forward trait. But yes, even though I'm really bad at spotting things and see what's wrong or not during the game, I need to try and see the behavior of that side, if there is lack of width.

Regarding the BWM, this is the player I have, would he be good enough to play B2B or even CM(s). His off the ball his bad and I think it's important for a B2B, at least.

 

 

Thanks!

About the playmaker on the wing, I've rarely tried it so far. When I use one, which is also rare, I usually put him in the middle.

As for the BWM player, you can see the picture above. I don't think he's really fits B2B role, very low off the ball, don't you think?

Yes I will try to keep and eye on the left flank, that is also why I have the CF(s) and the supporting midfielder there, so the CF(s) can help open up space for him to attack and the supporting midfielder can also help feed him the ball. Does it make sense?

About the centre backs  yeah I really don't know what to do there. I like the play to start from the centre backs, but at the same time, they are poor at passing and even composure. So maybe it's better to just leave it with no instructions?

 

To be fair, I don't think you can go out and say "X isn't suited for this position because 'Y' attribute seems low". I am not saying your thinking is wrong, but there is always going to be that one player who will excel in a position/role despite the attributes saying otherwise.

A real life example for me would be Teddy Sheringham. Not the fastest of players, but was a decent striker because, in FM terms, his "mentals" were high.

There is no harm in trying him as a B2B and see how he performs. As @herne79 said, he would happily play Rice as a B2B and he has OTB of 10.

[CARRERA]

1 hour ago, mikcheck said:

But yes, I think it would work better if I swap them. The 1st guy playing as a DLP(s) and this one playing as a CM(s) or B2B. But I'm also looking for a better player here, a faster and younger one, mainly.

yep, be careful though of your defensive stability if playing with two support duties, as he got gets forward PPM. If you feel like its getting too fancy, you can switch the DLP to a defend duty.

[dcayton9]

Other people have already touched on this but it seems like you're playing a quicker transition based system in a mid-low block based on your team instructions.

Because of this, I think the right flank should use a FB-Attack. The WB-support is a role much more based on being a wide outlet for possession or to occasionally overlap a more attacking forward ahead of it. I think the FB-Attack would sit deeper in defense (which is ok given that your team is already playing deep) and it focuses on firing crosses forwards and making slightly more risky passes (because of upped individual mentality). It will help the transition system move faster and work beneficially with two forwards.

On top of that, using playmakers in the quick system that I'm assuming you're going for just slows down play, so I would avoid WP-Support and just go for WM-Support if the player isn't great at dribbling or just W-su or IW-su if he is good at dribbling. 

[dactz]

I would say to start with I'm not sure I would play a complete forward at your level if you read the role description it is for truly elite players who can do everything you need a role do-er  like a big man who can hold up or a fast player who can get in behind rather than someone trying to do everything.

Right now I would worry less about style more about substance, if your team isn't the best in the league you will struggle to break teams down and they will press you high up the pitch so in transition you need your goalie to look long and he needs to do it quickly to bypass the press and catch them out of shape. (doesn't need to be hoof it to the big man but long enough to beat the press and start the counter)

As others have stated WP won't help you too much either you basically carry him in defence and you won't have possession enough to get the best out of him going forward in that role

[mikcheck]

12 horas atrás, dactz disse:

I would say to start with I'm not sure I would play a complete forward at your level if you read the role description it is for truly elite players who can do everything you need a role do-er  like a big man who can hold up or a fast player who can get in behind rather than someone trying to do everything.

Right now I would worry less about style more about substance, if your team isn't the best in the league you will struggle to break teams down and they will press you high up the pitch so in transition you need your goalie to look long and he needs to do it quickly to bypass the press and catch them out of shape. (doesn't need to be hoof it to the big man but long enough to beat the press and start the counter)

As others have stated WP won't help you too much either you basically carry him in defence and you won't have possession enough to get the best out of him going forward in that role

Thanks for your reply.

I actually think that the player I use there fits the CF role. He's obviously not the best in the world but I guess he'll be capable to perform there.

[dactz]

2 hours ago, mikcheck said:

Thanks for your reply.

I actually think that the player I use there fits the CF role. He's obviously not the best in the world but I guess he'll be capable to perform there.

 

Worth reading the description "A Complete Forward possesses all the technical attributes of a Deep Lying Forward, the goal scoring ability of a Poacher and the strength and power of a Target Man" This player is not strong enough in the air to perform target man duties I think he'd be much better as a AF or DLF