How best to develop some players to match my tactic?

[nick1408]

I had a ripping youth intake in season one with Everton. The problem is; I am just not good at youth development. I don't want to waste this opportunity so I'm here to ask for advice.

I'm playing with this tactic:

It works so I don't adjust too much. The only thing I'm only 90% confident in is if the AP-At is the best option or if I should be operating with another role there. Anyway, onto the youth development.

This is a typical youth training scheme. I'm using @Rashidi's schedules (and have watched his videos). I may be second-guessing myself but I am worried about players not developing.

Onto the players:

Daniel Sesay is the player I most don't want to stuff up. I see him as my future roaming playmaker currently he is in the under 18 side but he has spent time in the senior squad as well purely due to the need to use him. Looking at the attribute gains I am not liking what I am seeing. Do I need to just leave him in my under 18's?  To me, he is very close to the senior squad. The Head of Youth Development (Nicky Butt) is telling me he is of League One standard but I'm not sure a loan is right. I do have Crewe Alexandria as a feeder so there is room to move him to a club with good training facilities but potentially it may just be I need to leave him alone for a while. What is the best option here? Daniel is the youngest so I have the most time to spend with him.

 

Nathan Irving I'm not sure what to do with. I have him training to replace my Advanced Playmaker but his passing and vision concern me. I did contemplate having him as my future Segundo Volante but his tackling and strength are a concern. I may need to adjust my tactic to fit him but I'd be reluctant to do that. Nathan is already 17 so now is the time I need to start thinking of either loaning or where his future lies. Again, Crewe may be an option and I probably will ship him off in the January window to see how he develops. Butt tells me he is of League Two standard so should get some games without owning a position. The most likely outcome is that I will need to change tactic to keep him but I'd love to know other people's opinions.

 

Bryan Parker was a weak passer from the start. I couldn't see him converting to a centre-back role so decided Segundo Volante was the best option. I like his mental attributes and his physicals are fine so far. I don't really see any other options for Parker.

 

Adrian Todd is a bit of a concern. He has a Unambitious personality so I have him training with the senior squad to try and change that. There isn't a lot to like that I see so will probably chop him unless someone can see something that I can't.

 

Terry Dyson is an interesting one. Came to me as a striker but nothing here screamed striker. If his finishing was around 12 I probably would have persisted with training him as a target forward but a lot of his on the ball attributes aren't great so I thought I'd try him as a 198cm Segundo Volante. He will be nothing more than a backup for me but is it worth trying to bring him on as a striker rather than a midfielder?

 

I also got a great potential goalkeeper but I have just plonked him onto a goalkeeping schedule and he will stay on that until such time that I need to get rid of Pickford and promote Simpson.

 

So to sum up - am I right to be concerned with my development? Am I doing most things right? Is it just a need to be more patient? Anything to either confirm I am doing the right thing or to correct my development scheme would be appreciated.

[Johnny Ace]

How old are these guys?

I caught one was 17 and another 16, the general conscious is, if the player if under 18, they're best off training at the club to further their development

Once they hit 18, then loan them to a club at a suitable level a) where the level is high enough they'll develop b) it's not too high and they won't play so pay attention to that 

   

[nick1408]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

How old are these guys?

I caught one was 17 and another 16, the general conscious is, if the player if under 18, they're best off training at the club to further their development

Once they hit 18, then loan them to a club at a suitable level a) where the level is high enough they'll develop b) it's not too high and they won't play so pay attention to that 

   

Between 16 and 17. They arrived in March 2022 and I'm currently in November 2022. Not a great deal of time but I want to ensure I don't stuff anything up.

[Johnny Ace]

1 minute ago, nick1408 said:

Between 16 and 17. They arrived in March 2022 and I'm currently in November 2022. Not a great deal of time but I want to ensure I don't stuff anything up.

You're fine leaving them to get on with things in the U-19s then 

Look for loans when they're 18 + 

[nick1408]

7 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

You're fine leaving them to get on with things in the U-19s then 

Look for loans when they're 18 + 

I figured that was the case. Sesay's development already looks better after a short stint in the 19's. I'm still not sure I've made correct decisions around the rest though re: individual training.

[Johnny Ace]

13 minutes ago, nick1408 said:

I figured that was the case. Sesay's development already looks better after a short stint in the 19's. I'm still not sure I've made correct decisions around the rest though re: individual training.

I think you have, train them for the position you plan to play them

You can check their Reports (form) to see which positions the Ass Man is playing them, if you wanna add some extra focus, go for it. Even if the reports say you don't need or can drop the extra focus, ignore it until you're happy 

[rsihn]

I'm going to ignore the schedules because I disagree with a "one size fits all" schedule and really think you need to customize schedules based on the particular needs of your squad .  With that said, let's move on to the players.

I disagree with your choice of focus training for Sesay and also think you need to move him to the attacking training unit.  He is in the defensive unit because he is training as a DM but the areas he needs to improve in are areas that are part of the attacking unit's training benefits.  This is another reason that you should either go back to the default schedules or make sure you understand what exactly the results are of Rashidi's schedules.  The default training schedules include a lot more general training sessions that train the entire squad equally so it is actually harder to screw players up during their development but Rashidi has chosen to largely ignore those in favor of sessions that focus on one group or another.  With this in mind, you better make sure that you have the right players in the right training unit or they will be receiving all of the wrong benefits from training and as far as I'm concerned, you've got Sesay in the wrong group. 

 

Back to the training focus, Sesay is already decent at the things that Endurance focuses on and he is clearly weak in some other areas such as strength, long shots/finishing, and he isn't the greatest of dribblers.   Strength is one of the stats that is a bit harder to develop as a player gets older so I would initially put the training focus on this until he hits around a value of 10 and then start focusing on shooting or dribbling.  

 

Irving also needs strength focus training.  I'd also consider adding him into the defensive training unit to round out his stats a bit in case you ever decide you want to use him in another position that requires a more balanced set of skills. 

 

Parker should be added to the attacking training unit and probably focus trained on dribbling/first touch. 

 

Todd likewise could use strength focus training and should be added to the defensive training unit if you want a more well rounded player. 

 

[nick1408]

6 hours ago, rsihn said:

I'm going to ignore the schedules because I disagree with a "one size fits all" schedule and really think you need to customize schedules based on the particular needs of your squad .  With that said, let's move on to the players.

I disagree with your choice of focus training for Sesay and also think you need to move him to the attacking training unit.  He is in the defensive unit because he is training as a DM but the areas he needs to improve in are areas that are part of the attacking unit's training benefits.  This is another reason that you should either go back to the default schedules or make sure you understand what exactly the results are of Rashidi's schedules.  The default training schedules include a lot more general training sessions that train the entire squad equally so it is actually harder to screw players up during their development but Rashidi has chosen to largely ignore those in favor of sessions that focus on one group or another.  With this in mind, you better make sure that you have the right players in the right training unit or they will be receiving all of the wrong benefits from training and as far as I'm concerned, you've got Sesay in the wrong group. 

 

Back to the training focus, Sesay is already decent at the things that Endurance focuses on and he is clearly weak in some other areas such as strength, long shots/finishing, and he isn't the greatest of dribblers.   Strength is one of the stats that is a bit harder to develop as a player gets older so I would initially put the training focus on this until he hits around a value of 10 and then start focusing on shooting or dribbling.  

 

Irving also needs strength focus training.  I'd also consider adding him into the defensive training unit to round out his stats a bit in case you ever decide you want to use him in another position that requires a more balanced set of skills. 

 

Parker should be added to the attacking training unit and probably focus trained on dribbling/first touch. 

 

Todd likewise could use strength focus training and should be added to the defensive training unit if you want a more well rounded player. 

 

Thank you - I really appreciate the explanation on everything here.

[smeagoltonez]

On 21/06/2022 at 01:56, rsihn said:

I'm going to ignore the schedules because I disagree with a "one size fits all" schedule and really think you need to customize schedules based on the particular needs of your squad .  With that said, let's move on to the players.

I disagree with your choice of focus training for Sesay and also think you need to move him to the attacking training unit.  He is in the defensive unit because he is training as a DM but the areas he needs to improve in are areas that are part of the attacking unit's training benefits.  This is another reason that you should either go back to the default schedules or make sure you understand what exactly the results are of Rashidi's schedules.  The default training schedules include a lot more general training sessions that train the entire squad equally so it is actually harder to screw players up during their development but Rashidi has chosen to largely ignore those in favor of sessions that focus on one group or another.  With this in mind, you better make sure that you have the right players in the right training unit or they will be receiving all of the wrong benefits from training and as far as I'm concerned, you've got Sesay in the wrong group. 

 

Back to the training focus, Sesay is already decent at the things that Endurance focuses on and he is clearly weak in some other areas such as strength, long shots/finishing, and he isn't the greatest of dribblers.   Strength is one of the stats that is a bit harder to develop as a player gets older so I would initially put the training focus on this until he hits around a value of 10 and then start focusing on shooting or dribbling.  

 

Irving also needs strength focus training.  I'd also consider adding him into the defensive training unit to round out his stats a bit in case you ever decide you want to use him in another position that requires a more balanced set of skills. 

 

Parker should be added to the attacking training unit and probably focus trained on dribbling/first touch. 

 

Todd likewise could use strength focus training and should be added to the defensive training unit if you want a more well rounded player. 

 

I always struggle with this part. Do I want a 'more rounded player' or someone who is a master at the attributes needed for their position & role? A well rounded player would make sense for a utility player but maybe not a first choice inside forward? I'm thinking more in terms of lower leagues where players may not have much attribute points to spend on development. Does what I'm saying making sense or am I wrong? Thanks!

[glengarry224]

A few things I noticed, of course only imnho:

• match training (attacking movement, match tactics, set pieces, etc) are wasted sessions on U18;
• I prefer fewer technical training sessions for U18, maybe 3-4 per week total = more physical and general training, some 'attacking patient', 'ground defense', etc. [edit: I'm unsure about this b/c after my senior team gains tactical familiarity, I prefer mostly technical training sessions, so take this with a grain of salt];
• as @rsihn said, it's harder to improve physicals later, and they can improve a lot at 16-18 so focus on those now - minimum, I like 1 General Physical and 1 specific Physical, usually Quickness (or in your case, maybe Resistance too);
• if you have any GK prospects, add 1-2 'shot stopping' or '1-1' otherwise skip those;
• Sesay is kinda slow, could be a great DLP(d);
• Dyson could be a good FB/WB (but needs to improve crossing and for any position, needs more pace/agility/mentals);
• I wouldn't add too many traits at young ages especially
• on your Training/Rest tab, players should be set for 'double intensity' at the top fitness levels

Edited June 29, 2022 by glengarry224

[rsihn]

6 hours ago, smeagoltonez said:

I always struggle with this part. Do I want a 'more rounded player' or someone who is a master at the attributes needed for their position & role? A well rounded player would make sense for a utility player but maybe not a first choice inside forward? I'm thinking more in terms of lower leagues where players may not have much attribute points to spend on development. Does what I'm saying making sense or am I wrong? Thanks!

All stats up to 6 points are free in the game's CA calculation so there are no downsides to ensuring that all of your players have achieved at least 6 points in everything.  I'm not sure if you are familiar with how the game weights certain stats by position but most defensive stats are extremely cheap (borderline free) for attacking players and vice-versa for defenders with attacking stats. 

 

[smeagoltonez]

13 minutes ago, rsihn said:

All stats up to 6 points are free in the game's CA calculation so there are no downsides to ensuring that all of your players have achieved at least 6 points in everything.  I'm not sure if you are familiar with how the game weights certain stats by position but most defensive stats are extremely cheap (borderline free) for attacking players and vice-versa for defenders with attacking stats. 

 

Thank you, I did not know any of this! Very helpful! So is it still difficult to improve the attributes of a player aged over 24 if they have below 6 for the one you're targeting?

Edited June 28, 2022 by smeagoltonez

[Argonaut]

Most of those players look like they need an increase of 5-10 points in a lot of their attributes to be useful in the Premier League. That's a huge ask, and not likely to happen. I'd wager only Daniel Sesay has a chance to make your squad. The others could be useful as future sale bait though. With youngsters it's often better to have players that are "almost there", and just fine-tune their development. Rather than hoping for massive increases.

Development used to be easier. You could slap at least a Professional/Resolute/Spirited personality on your whole squad with tutoring in a season or two. And then develop to max CA/PA in a few seasons. Harder now.

I tend to like well-rounded players up to a certain baseline (often 10 in attributes). And then specialize from there based on position/role/tactic. From the above chart you can see some attributes are undervalued. I'd say Dribbling and Tackling are very undervalued for WBRL. They will be doing most of your tackling if they are the lone wide players. Passing and Vision are undervalued for AMRL and ST.

[rsihn]

1 minute ago, smeagoltonez said:

So is it still difficult to improve the attributes of a player aged over 24 if they have below 6 for the one you're targeting?

Yes, it is difficult but not impossible.  Younger players get most of their development from training so it is best to start doing this in your youth squad but older players don't gain as much through training and instead gain most of their development through matches.   You can put the Inside Forward you mentioned into your defensive training unit and he will now gain the benefits from training that the defenders will.   At that age, a lot will depend on the player's personality and whether he has the drive to keep improving  so you'll need to take it on a case by case basis.  You'll also have trouble with poor training facilities at the lower league level which will make it harder for them to keep improving but still worth a try. 

[nick1408]

11 hours ago, glengarry224 said:

A few things I noticed, of course only imnho:

• match training (attacking movement, match tactics, set pieces, etc) are wasted sessions on U18;
• I prefer fewer technical training sessions for U18, maybe 3-4 per week total = more physical and general training, some 'attacking patient', 'ground defense', etc.;
• as @rsihn said, it's harder to improve physicals later, and they can improve a lot at 16-18 so focus on those now - minimum, I like 1 General Physical and 1 specific Physical, usually Quickness (or in your case, maybe Resistance too);
• if you have any GK prospects, add 1-2 'shot stopping' or '1-1' otherwise skip those;
• Sesay is kinda slow, could be a great DLP(d);
• Dyson could be a good FB/WB (but needs to improve crossing and for any position, needs more pace/agility/mentals);
• I wouldn't add too many traits at young ages especially
• on your Training/Rest tab, players should be set for 'double intensity' at the top fitness levels

Thanks for your input. I've adjusted my youth schedule(below). I threw in the two goalkeeping sessions but put them in times where the team would be travelling for away matches so it'll only get used for every second week essentially. I planned it to start heavy earlier in the week and taper off towards gameday. I'll give it a crack with my new batch and see how they go.

 

An update on how my players are going - I'm now in July 2024 and a few have come on nicely. I've pretty much used Rashidi's schedules as the default ones I wasn't happy with. Remember, as I'm in July there will be some red arrows.

 

Sesay has come on nicely. I introduced him to my first team at the end of the season prior. The coaches are saying he is at Championship level but I'm happy with his few contributions so far. Dribbling and first touch have increased by two, Marking, passing and technique are all up sightly. Mentals have all grown nicely and balance up two I am happy with. As a 17 year old I am happy with progress so far. He is slow so I might give him a couple of months of quickness training.

 

Irving has also progressed nicely. Dribbling up significantly. Mentals have also improved well. Agility is up four points. I'm not sure he will make it as a starter for me but will earn me quite a lot if I do sell him.

 

Parker hasn't really progressed how I would have liked. Likely I chose the wrong role for him. I'm thinking of converting him to a centreback now. Will definitely be sold at some stage.

 

Again, not a lot of progress. Will be sold at some stage.

 

Dyson has had good gains in physicals and mentals. Now you pointed it out I can see him as a full back too. Marking is a bit low for centreback. Will probably hold him for now but will also be a sale candidate.

 

Ben Simpson has progressed well. Better than I expected. Will now keep an eye on him to see how he progresses with dedicated goalkeeping training.

[Rashidi]

On 21/06/2022 at 06:56, rsihn said:

The default training schedules include a lot more general training sessions that train the entire squad equally so it is actually harder to screw players up during their development but Rashidi has chosen to largely ignore those in favor of sessions that focus on one group or another.

My training schedules are actually balanced to hit all the attributes across the team, with a particular emphasis on mental attributes as these play a big part in the match engine. It would help if you actually understood the rationale behind the sessions.  Your statement demonstrates a cursory knowledge of training.

 These sessions work on broad improvement, specific work still needs to be done when you want to target development of players you do this by choosing the right units they train in and choosing specific roles that work on attributes you want developed. Ultimately you as a manager need to know what kind of attributes you want to go for. These training schedules hit the whole group evenly.  General training sessions are fine, but I have been using these sessions for a long time and they work. Ultimately you as a manager need to do things right. 

Developing youth players effectively requires you to:

1. Get them playing with senior team members or with squads that are competitive enough. In the case of the latter you will need to send them out on load if they can't play in your senior team.

2. They also need adequate game time, putting them on for 10 mins can be insufficient, they need enough time to generate a match rating. That usually happens within 20 minutes. So play them for at least 20 minutes for 10-15 games. At other times they should be made available for the youth team. Once they are 18 without senior team experience they could  suffer stagnation in development.

3. You need to watch out for burnout, when players start underperforming in games or you as a manager keep losing matches, then this hits their training performances as well. If a player gets jaded his training numbers take a hit. Downward arrows for progess vs PA is indicative of issues, these can be addressed. 

4. If you keep switching a players role simply because you don't see an improvement, then its likely you won't see improvement. Attribute improvement takes at least 6 months to show. Players will also experience downcycles in attribute development at certain points in the season.

They key in player training development is consistency.


 

[smeagoltonez]

Is it safe to also select 'Double intensity' for under 23s & u18s training when player condition is 'excellent' like we do for the first team? Or does this cause burnout?

[nick1408]

1 hour ago, Rashidi said:

My training schedules are actually balanced to hit all the attributes across the team, with a particular emphasis on mental attributes as these play a big part in the match engine. It would help if you actually understood the rationale behind the sessions.  Your statement demonstrates a cursory knowledge of training.

 These sessions work on broad improvement, specific work still needs to be done when you want to target development of players you do this by choosing the right units they train in and choosing specific roles that work on attributes you want developed. Ultimately you as a manager need to know what kind of attributes you want to go for. These training schedules hit the whole group evenly.  General training sessions are fine, but I have been using these sessions for a long time and they work. Ultimately you as a manager need to do things right. 

Developing youth players effectively requires you to:

1. Get them playing with senior team members or with squads that are competitive enough. In the case of the latter you will need to send them out on load if they can't play in your senior team.

2. They also need adequate game time, putting them on for 10 mins can be insufficient, they need enough time to generate a match rating. That usually happens within 20 minutes. So play them for at least 20 minutes for 10-15 games. At other times they should be made available for the youth team. Once they are 18 without senior team experience they could  suffer stagnation in development.

3. You need to watch out for burnout, when players start underperforming in games or you as a manager keep losing matches, then this hits their training performances as well. If a player gets jaded his training numbers take a hit. Downward arrows for progess vs PA is indicative of issues, these can be addressed. 

4. If you keep switching a players role simply because you don't see an improvement, then its likely you won't see improvement. Attribute improvement takes at least 6 months to show. Players will also experience downcycles in attribute development at certain points in the season.

They key in player training development is consistency.


 

Thanks for coming in and clarifying your schedules. What I saw would match exactly what you describe - even gains across the board with an emphasis on mentals. Individual training can be added to boost physical stats if needed.

[smeagoltonez]

On 21/06/2022 at 01:56, rsihn said:

I'm going to ignore the schedules because I disagree with a "one size fits all" schedule and really think you need to customize schedules based on the particular needs of your squad .  With that said, let's move on to the players.

I disagree with your choice of focus training for Sesay and also think you need to move him to the attacking training unit.  He is in the defensive unit because he is training as a DM but the areas he needs to improve in are areas that are part of the attacking unit's training benefits.  This is another reason that you should either go back to the default schedules or make sure you understand what exactly the results are of Rashidi's schedules.  The default training schedules include a lot more general training sessions that train the entire squad equally so it is actually harder to screw players up during their development but Rashidi has chosen to largely ignore those in favor of sessions that focus on one group or another.  With this in mind, you better make sure that you have the right players in the right training unit or they will be receiving all of the wrong benefits from training and as far as I'm concerned, you've got Sesay in the wrong group. 

 

Back to the training focus, Sesay is already decent at the things that Endurance focuses on and he is clearly weak in some other areas such as strength, long shots/finishing, and he isn't the greatest of dribblers.   Strength is one of the stats that is a bit harder to develop as a player gets older so I would initially put the training focus on this until he hits around a value of 10 and then start focusing on shooting or dribbling.  

 

Irving also needs strength focus training.  I'd also consider adding him into the defensive training unit to round out his stats a bit in case you ever decide you want to use him in another position that requires a more balanced set of skills. 

 

Parker should be added to the attacking training unit and probably focus trained on dribbling/first touch. 

 

Todd likewise could use strength focus training and should be added to the defensive training unit if you want a more well rounded player. 

 

 

18 hours ago, glengarry224 said:

A few things I noticed, of course only imnho:

• match training (attacking movement, match tactics, set pieces, etc) are wasted sessions on U18;
• I prefer fewer technical training sessions for U18, maybe 3-4 per week total = more physical and general training, some 'attacking patient', 'ground defense', etc.;
• as @rsihn said, it's harder to improve physicals later, and they can improve a lot at 16-18 so focus on those now - minimum, I like 1 General Physical and 1 specific Physical, usually Quickness (or in your case, maybe Resistance too);
• if you have any GK prospects, add 1-2 'shot stopping' or '1-1' otherwise skip those;
• Sesay is kinda slow, could be a great DLP(d);
• Dyson could be a good FB/WB (but needs to improve crossing and for any position, needs more pace/agility/mentals);
• I wouldn't add too many traits at young ages especially
• on your Training/Rest tab, players should be set for 'double intensity' at the top fitness levels

I didn't realise strength was also difficult to develop as a player gets older. I knew that physical attributes such as pace & acceleration were harder (& that makes sense) but I'm sure I previously read that this didn't apply to 'strength' which again, makes sense (at least to me anyway as a player can get stronger by lifting weights). So I need to concentrate on improving all physicals when they're young? Thanks!

Edited June 29, 2022 by smeagoltonez

[glengarry224]

21 hours ago, rsihn said:

All stats up to 6 points are free in the game's CA calculation so there are no downsides to ensuring that all of your players have achieved at least 6 points in everything.  I'm not sure if you are familiar with how the game weights certain stats by position but most defensive stats are extremely cheap (borderline free) for attacking players and vice-versa for defenders with attacking stats. 

 

this is interesting.  Intuitively, I understood this but never saw the numbers.  How does this work when someone plays multiple positions?

I'm surprised that 'finishing' has such low stress for AMRL:  I get it for a traditional W(s), or even an AP or TF, but for an IF, I'd have guessed that 'finishing' was one of the most important.

[glengarry224]

3 hours ago, smeagoltonez said:

I didn't realise strength was also difficult to develop as a player gets older.

I should be more careful adopting these ideas and repeating them.  I've read that, and have believed it, but have not tested it or heard anyone from SI say that.  Not saying it's wrong, instead that I just don't know. 

Like you, I'd think that strength can be improved at a later age.  Indeed, IRL, many athletes gain strength throughout their 20s and even some in their 30s (but that might be enhanced...).  I'd guess that jumping rarely increases after a player's early 20s but arm and ground strength can...but we'd need a real expert to tell us more.

[smeagoltonez]

1 hour ago, glengarry224 said:

I should be more careful adopting these ideas and repeating them.  I've read that, and have believed it, but have not tested it or heard anyone from SI say that.  Not saying it's wrong, instead that I just don't know. 

Like you, I'd think that strength can be improved at a later age.  Indeed, IRL, many athletes gain strength throughout their 20s and even some in their 30s (but that might be enhanced...).  I'd guess that jumping rarely increases after a player's early 20s but arm and ground strength can...but we'd need a real expert to tell us more.

I will try & find the topic that I read it in. It was on this forum & I think it was a reputable source but my searches have come up empty so far...

[HurkaDurk69]

1 hour ago, glengarry224 said:

this is interesting.  Intuitively, I understood this but never saw the numbers.  How does this work when someone plays multiple positions?

It takes into account the rating of the position/s(they go from 1 to 20 like most things in this game) and then they take into account the weight of the position/s to see where a player would be best fitted

[rsihn]

10 hours ago, Rashidi said:

My training schedules are actually balanced to hit all the attributes across the team, with a particular emphasis on mental attributes as these play a big part in the match engine. It would help if you actually understood the rationale behind the sessions.  Your statement demonstrates a cursory knowledge of training.

 These sessions work on broad improvement, specific work still needs to be done when you want to target development of players you do this by choosing the right units they train in and choosing specific roles that work on attributes you want developed. Ultimately you as a manager need to know what kind of attributes you want to go for. These training schedules hit the whole group evenly.  General training sessions are fine, but I have been using these sessions for a long time and they work. Ultimately you as a manager need to do things right. 

Developing youth players effectively requires you to:

1. Get them playing with senior team members or with squads that are competitive enough. In the case of the latter you will need to send them out on load if they can't play in your senior team.

Thanks to FMathlete's excellent training planner, we don't have to wonder if your schedule covers everything or not.

 

As can be seen in the screenshot below, your Youth Complete training schedule (referenced above in OP's post)  does actually neglect certain areas in the defensive training unit, notably providing no training at all in Crossing, Finishing,  Long Shots, and Off the Ball.  It is also noticeably weak in covering everything GK related other than distribution.  I'm posting this so that OP and others curious about training understand the tradeoffs when choosing one schedule or another.

 

I'm also adding in the 4 youth default training schedules that aren't as focused on developing certain characteristics but don't have any notable weak areas due to all of them including 2 General-Outfield sessions each week which cover all the of the non-physical stats.  I don't think the default schedules are perfect. but they do generally provide a well balanced training regiment though the focus on physical development can be excessive if your youth squad is already decent in this area.   This is easily remedied by simply swapping in other General sessions though. 

Rashidi Youth Complete.

Youth Default Attacking Schedule.

Youth Default Defending Schedule.

Youth Default Possession Schedule. 

Youth Default Tactical Schedule. 

Edited June 29, 2022 by rsihn
Clarifying which schedule is which.

[rsihn]

2 hours ago, glengarry224 said:

this is interesting.  Intuitively, I understood this but never saw the numbers.  How does this work when someone plays multiple positions?

I'm surprised that 'finishing' has such low stress for AMRL:  I get it for a traditional W(s), or even an AP or TF, but for an IF, I'd have guessed that 'finishing' was one of the most important.

SI should probably confirm this but I believe that the player uses the highest weighting for each of the positions he is familiar with.  

[smeagoltonez]

On 28/06/2022 at 22:08, rsihn said:

All stats up to 6 points are free in the game's CA calculation so there are no downsides to ensuring that all of your players have achieved at least 6 points in everything.  I'm not sure if you are familiar with how the game weights certain stats by position but most defensive stats are extremely cheap (borderline free) for attacking players and vice-versa for defenders with attacking stats. 

 

I have some more questions about this:

1) do these weightings also apply to how the players perform in the match engine or is it just for CA calculation purposes? If so, this changes how I view my centre-backs. I usually look at positioning, concentration & jumping reach first & neglect decisions a little!

2) I noticed that decisions (& composure) are not important for an NCB. This suggests to me that decisions are only used by a CB(d) when he has the ball at his feet (which pass to play) & that decisions are important for CB(st) & CB(c) when they have to decide whether to attack the ball or cover (depending on the role selected). Am I wrong?

Thanks!

[rsihn]

19 hours ago, smeagoltonez said:

I have some more questions about this:

1) do these weightings also apply to how the players perform in the match engine or is it just for CA calculation purposes? If so, this changes how I view my centre-backs. I usually look at positioning, concentration & jumping reach first & neglect decisions a little!

2) I noticed that decisions (& composure) are not important for an NCB. This suggests to me that decisions are only used by a CB(d) when he has the ball at his feet (which pass to play) & that decisions are important for CB(st) & CB(c) when they have to decide whether to attack the ball or cover (depending on the role selected). Am I wrong?

Thanks!

1-I think it would be safe to assume that the highest weighted stats for each position are the most important and are likely to have the largest effect in game but you still need to balance this against what is required for their particular role.   

2-SI could verify this but looks fine to me.  

[nick1408]

I've had a bit of a think about what I want to do going forward. I'm not sure if it's a good idea or not but hopefully it works. I feel there were too many matches being played for my Under 18's and Under 23's - 50 (8 friendlies) in the 23's, 49 (7 friendlies) in the 18's. This was limiting the training I could apply to both squads. For the next season I will be testing the following:

• Removing the Under 23's from the Premier League 2
• Most of my Under 23's team will be suited to League One - Championship level football. I will be attempting to get friendlies against clubs in the following leagues - Norway, Sweden, USA, South Korea, Finland and maybe Ireland. Reason being these are calendar year seasons so hopefully will be willing to compete against my Under 23's in their off-season but will also be at the level to suit my players. I've put some pictures below to show where the leagues rank compared to Championship and League One
• No friendlies created when the Champions League B matches are being played
• Limit Under 23 squad to about 15-20 players (allows for first team players gaining fitness and/or injury)
• The Under 18's I can't take out of their competition so they stay with no friendlies being created

Hopefully this allows for more or less one match per week plus training for the group. I'm after less two match weeks for this age group overall. This will all come to nothing if I can't get the applicable friendlies. If I can't I'll be looking to rejoin the Under 23 league the season after.

 

 

Edit: So it turns out the clubs I tried to get friendlies organised against didn't want to agree with me as they saw no benefit. I've since accepted the Premier League 2 invite but will not play friendlies to try and limit the games I play to one per week. I'll try a bit later in the season again against the Scandinavian teams but it looks like best laid plans won't come to fruition. 

[Rashidi]

On 29/06/2022 at 01:46, glengarry224 said:

match training (attacking movement, match tactics, set pieces, etc) are wasted sessions on U18

No they aren't, they work directly on specific roles whilst not being too aggressive. While I agree youth players should be pushed, overplaying them or being too aggressive can also lead to injuries which in turn can cause attributes to spiral downwards.

[Rashidi]

On 30/06/2022 at 03:28, rsihn said:

As can be seen in the screenshot below, your Youth Complete training schedule (referenced above in OP's post)  does actually neglect certain areas in the defensive training unit, notably providing no training at all in Crossing, Finishing,  Long Shots, and Off the Ball.  It is also noticeably weak in covering everything GK related other than distribution.  I'm posting this so that OP and others curious about training understand the tradeoffs when choosing one schedule or another.

Every training schedule has strengths and weaknesses.  Ultimately a balanced training schedule is ideal, finally attributes like Crossing can also be improved through individual focus. In fact in FM21 crossing was identified as an attribute that had issues growing regardless of which session was used, which is why you can find it as  an individual focus now.

The weights are all assumptions. For one thing: How much weight goes into splitting tactical familiarity elements from individual roles? Can we assume the intensity of each session creates a weighted impact on training? If so how much? Then we have the random modifier which a lot of planners don't even account for. So there are a lot of assumptions people can make, which leads to a variety of possible permutations for training. 

The training module is  meant to be "Idiot proof" its so hard to screw it up. So a lot of schedules will look like they work, which is how the training module is meant to operate.

Ultimately a "general training plan" that targets players in broad areas is always going to be easier to achieve and in all likelihood be the best. . And you want to coopt that with specific role training for your youth players within a tactical system that allows them to be ready for the first team. So if your first team is using a 433 you want to be using something similar with the youth team. 

16-17 More time training - High intensity
18-20  Training but need game time. Training intensity medium to heavy, but players need to be monitored so they do not become jaded

Most of my top youth eventually join first team training, by the time they are 17, but I make sure my squad size does not exceed 25 players, otherwise we get diminishing returns from training as well caused by an overpopulated squad that needs more attention from the same number of coaches. 
 

[glengarry224]

On 05/07/2022 at 22:25, Rashidi said:

No they aren't, they work directly on specific roles whilst not being too aggressive. While I agree youth players should be pushed, overplaying them or being too aggressive can also lead to injuries which in turn can cause attributes to spiral downwards.

The problem with, for example, training 'Match Preparation' sessions like 'attacking movement' with youth players is that those sessions spend a lot of time (1) giving players a temporary boost for the upcoming match (some say for 1 week); and (2) improving players familiarity with the trained tactic(s).  That's great for players who are playing games which count, but wasted on youth players who only need to improve their attributes and personalities. 

The majority of 'General' training sessions also spend time on tactical familiarity, and therefore also waste some training time with youth players.  And I recommended those so yes, I'm being a bit inconsistent, and clearly don't know everything. 

I use a lot of 'Set Piece' training for my senior squad but those sessions mostly give a temporary boost for upcoming matches.  To the extent those sessions improve set piece attributes, like 'corners', that only benefits the few of your players who start with a fairly good set piece attribute, so 'set piece delivery' might be beneficial if you have a budding James Ward-Prowse.

Edited July 8, 2022 by glengarry224