Are beautiful roles like the False 9 and Complete Wingback ruined by their hard-coded dribbling?

[Chamaki]

To be honest, I think we can safely add the Winger role to this list as well.

Many of you who have used these roles would have noticed just how selfish and individual they seem to be. 

Let's start with the false 9. This role is a pain to use in counterattacking tactics that aim to win the ball deep in your own half. Why? Because he's the main outlet when you do recover the ball. And almost without fail he will set off on a slaloming, pointless run forward, leaving your team in the dust, culminating in a hopeless long shot. It's such a beautiful role though. It drops deep when you're high up the pitch and will combine there. It's just terrible in transition, and that ruins a lot.

The Winger. The most selfish role in the game bar none. This role, regardless of duty only sees the opponent in front of him, whether it's one or two or three. Incidentally they will usually end up with a decent number of assists, but only after you've lost countless strands of hair watching them run down the byline to get tackled. Over and over. Its a shame because this role probably maintains the most width in the MLR and AMLR strata. But it's rare to see them used in peoples tactic for a reason. Way too direct.

The Complete Wingback. This is the saddest one because it's possibly the most beautiful role in the game. It roams across the side of the pitch, sometimes popping up in the inside channel, sometimes on the touchline itself. It'll even make runs into the penalty area to crash in half cleared balls on the volley. It takes up varied positions to prevent counterattacks. Unfortunately it is often avoided because the role is mostly seen running down a blind alley up the wing, to get tackled for your 25th corner of the game. 

Honestly, all 3 roles would be better off if you could deselect the dribble more option. It puts off combination play which is how most of us want to play. Annoyingly, most other roles with dribble more hard coded don't seem to have this issue. The inside forward will run with the ball, yes, but he's often good value for a clever through ball or rudimentary lay off pass. Wingbacks on attack duty will often cross the ball even before reaching the byline. The Complete forward is a free role, yet they participate in clever combinations. 

This isn't about tactics being suboptimal. It's something that can be found almost regardless of setup.  And for some reason dribble less doesn't seem to offset their tendencies to any noticeable degree.

It's my wish that for FM22, we are able to deselect the dribble more instruction for them. At least for the winger support and complete wingback support roles.

Apologies if I posted this in the wrong place. Wasn't sure it belonged to the tactics sub. It's fine to move it to the appropriate area if it doesn't belong here.

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by Chamaki

[NotSoSpecialOne]

Not sure I agree with regards to the False Nine. Even with the hard coded dribble more, in conjunction with Runs With Ball Often/Runs With Ball Through Centre, a player will very rarely look to actually dribble in the attacking third. If I were to change anything with the role, it'd be to increase the mentality a notch because it's too conservative as is currently for my liking. If you've ticked the Counter transition instruction, then that's the sort of behaviour I'd expect to occur (and even hold shape or no setting, but less frequently) that you're describing and the role being hard coded to dribble more doesn't matter that much in this situation. What you'd be looking for is the Holds up ball PI - so target man, deep lying forward etc. My two cents.

I do agree that a winger on attack duty is pretty direct but I'm not really sold on that being a bad thing necessarily.

Complete wingback I have no issues with personally. Don't see how it would get pigeon holed into an alley more than a wingback on attack (that is hardcoded to cross from byline anyway and has less variance in movement). 

Whilst I may not agree with your assessment of these roles, I would like to see some more generic roles available with a clean slate of PIs. I love that about the wide midfielder role for example.

Edited May 14, 2021 by NotSoSpecialOne

[Keyzer Soze]

There are roles that, because of is specifically are harder to use right in the game, because you need players with the right set of attributes to fill the role. 

If you give a player the CWB role, and he don't have the right attributes it can be a disaster. 

Bare in mind that, in the end, it's the players that play the game, so, first you need good players, and not just set a nice combination of roles and duties. 

[Mitja]

I agree and for my liking all wide roles dribble too much. There should be much fewer roles with hardcoded dribbling especially support duty roles. Football is not played that way. It would be big step forward for the game. Wide players are still too impatient but I think the ME is heading in that direction.

[CARRERA]

too much dribbling, shooting and crossing can often be an indicator for the use of a too high tempo (there is other stuff of course). I never felt like players are dribbling too much unless I want them to. I give you an example: If you are looking for quick transitions, which is often combined with higher tempo and an overall more direct setup of roles, often the only and fastest way to penetrate space is to dribble, as there is no other player ahead to pass to. And players instructed to transition quickly, wont look back.

[zabyl]

19 hours ago, CARRERA said:

too much dribbling, shooting and crossing can often be an indicator for the use of a too high tempo

Plus, player's low teamwork, creative freedom TI/PI and higher team mentalities increase their numbers too.

[coppicat]

I always play with with "dribble less" in team setting. Only way to have a decent possession % in my tactics. Also makes the team play faster.

Advanced playmaker is the one I dont understand as "shoot less" is hard-coded. If your midfielder has over 15 in long shots why not take the chance once in a while? Longs hots can also be a blessing with very defensive formations. 

[CARRERA]

2 hours ago, coppicat said:

Advanced playmaker is the one I dont understand as "shoot less" is hard-coded. If your midfielder has over 15 in long shots why not take the chance once in a while? Longs hots can also be a blessing with very defensive formations.

Thats true, but shooting from range is not the primary responsibility of an advanced playmaker. He is responsible for bringing others into play with his passes. If you want him to shoot more often, you might pick another playmaker role like TQ as a Wide or central attacking midfielder, ar a RPM as a more deeper Role. Btw, shoot less doesnt mean dont shoot at all :-)

[coppicat]

On 16/05/2021 at 03:14, CARRERA said:

Thats true, but shooting from range is not the primary responsibility of an advanced playmaker. He is responsible for bringing others into play with his passes. If you want him to shoot more often, you might pick another playmaker role like TQ as a Wide or central attacking midfielder, ar a RPM as a more deeper Role. Btw, shoot less doesnt mean dont shoot at all :-)

Yes. I play an attacking midfielder on attack just behind the forward in my 4-2-3-1 formation.