Why do my scouts keep recommending pointless signings?

[eXistenZ]

So I'm currently in a long term career where I work my way up from varama south, and at the moment I'm halfway through my first season in the championship. There has been one constant throughout this career (well two, if you count lack of money and a good dose of luck). worthless scout recommendations.It's not about their level, my chief scout is a 15/16, the other have at least judging ability of 12. Yet all the time I receive recommendations that instantly go in the discard bin. This is the last example that triggered me/made me make this topic:

His top recommendation is to blow my whole transfer budget on a player that is basicly two leagues below my current level. In what world is this vaguely a good recommendation? Ok, you could argue his wage and potential is somewhat interesting, combined with his interest. Nevertheless, this is not a player that I have use for at this moment or even in the near future. But there are worse example. This was one when in league 1:

 

"why don't you sign a player that is not good enough now, and will never be good enough". And its not just the ratings. My recommendations are filled with either players that are not good enough (in their own words), too expensive for my budget (by miles), or just arent interested. (or a combination of all) If the discard function had its seperate button, it would been wore out by now probably

 

I've managed to find players that improve my squad by basicly doing the work myself: find free players and trial them, or search players with ending contracts in january  through both the player search and flicking through the U23 squads and sending my scouts on the players that look interesting so I have an idea by May. This is extremely timeconsuming and labor intensive. Surely this is why I have my scouts and why I pay them??

 

Currently I have two scout assignments running: one for loans - 3.5 stars, and one for end of contract -3.5stars. they are the only ones who find players of championship level quality (although in low numbers).  What I basicly want to know is why does the game recommends me pointless players, and how can I prevent it? What scout setup hsould I use?

[XaW]

Head into a player rated 3 stars in your team, and look at the coach report. What level do they think he is suitable for?

I'm guessing your team is not, isolated, good enough for the Championship, and you are just overachieving with a tactic that works wonders. The 1st image is of a player rated around average for your side (2,5 stars), and is a "good League Two player", so that suggest your team is actually League Two quality. So he is suggesting a player that is average for your side, and could improve to 4.5 star.

The 2nd image is a player slightly below average with unknown potential (white stars), so he is most likely suggesting you scout him more to get a better rating.

If you are playing in the Championship with a League Two side, then this is not unreasonable, since the rating is _compared to your current team_. So those player are either good enough for it, or someone who could be, but would need more scouting.

Also, how good are your scouts? Unless they have 20/20, they are likely to be wrong at any account, and more wrong if they don't have 100% knowledge.

[Freakiie]

The only reason you consider these players as "pointless" is because you're advancing through the leagues way too fast. 2.5* CA means that they're close to squad player quality, and a youngster that is good enough to regularly get playing time and potentially even slot in directly into your first team depending on what you have there in your squad, while having a lot of potential is a great signing from a scouts point of view. If that player is then only a good League 2 player that means your squad is horribly lacking in quality compared to the league you're in. All your scout sees is that the guy is basically just shy of being a first team player, has potential to grow and is a feasible target. Of course he's gonna recommend the signing.

Imagine if you were playing at a top club and your scouts roll up to you with some 18 year old that's almost good enough to be a first team player and has 4.5* potential on top of that, you'd consider that to be a massive find and would sign him instantly...

If you want them to find Championship quality players, then go scout for 4*+ players, since apparently, compared to the rest of your squad, a championship quality player would basically be one of your star players.

[eXistenZ]

4 minutes ago, XaW said:

Head into a player rated 3 stars in your team, and look at the coach report. What level do they think he is suitable for?

I'm guessing your team is not, isolated, good enough for the Championship, and you are just overachieving with a tactic that works wonders. The 1st image is of a player rated around average for your side (2,5 stars), and is a "good League Two player", so that suggest your team is actually League Two quality. So he is suggesting a player that is average for your side, and could improve to 4.5 star.

The 2nd image is a player slightly below average with unknown potential (white stars), so he is most likely suggesting you scout him more to get a better rating.

If you are playing in the Championship with a League Two side, then this is not unreasonable, since the rating is _compared to your current team_. So those player are either good enough for it, or someone who could be, but would need more scouting.

Also, how good are your scouts? Unless they have 20/20, they are likely to be wrong at any account, and more wrong if they don't have 100% knowledge.

Oh I won't deny that I'm overacheiving massivly. A good setpiece routine and Fullham (later Chelsea) as a parent club do that for you. But it's not that my players are completly out of their depth. In spirit with LLM, I've made sure to keep a healthy rotation and filter out the players that don't make the cut on a higher level. Even if it is your beloved club captain that made 40 goals two seasons ago. And I'll admit, I have an occasional look at the CA in the editor, precisly because my scouts come up with these weird reports that I doubt myself

But to answer your question, Ive had a quick scan (and yes, i made sure the coach with best judging CA/PA does the reports, its the first thing I do when starting at a club). I have 9 - 3 star rated players

-My goalkeeper (who is very strong this season so far) - decent league 1 player

-4th striker - decent league 1 player

-My 2nd central defender - decent  championship player

-Leftback - decent championship player

-2nd rightback - decent league 1 player

-rotation CM - Good league 1 player

-first backup CB - decent league 1 player

-RB- championship level

-BBM- operating at championship level

-DM - operating at championship level

To give you the proper breakdown: backup gk - 2 stars, 5players with 2.5stars - 9 players with 3 stars, 7 players with 3.5 stars and 1 with 4 stars. Yes its a smaller squad than usual, but because i don't use gegenpress and have been spared major injuries on my best players, the fitness levels hold (so far)), but my assistent is definitly right when he says that "there isnt muc  quality outsde the starting 11".

So I disagree that it's because I have a low average level that my scouts come up with these recommendations. A league 2 player would be on the fringes of this team. It also doesnt explain why they bring me players that are either not interested, or disregard the budget completly

[XaW]

7 minutes ago, eXistenZ said:

Oh I won't deny that I'm overacheiving massivly. A good setpiece routine and Fullham (later Chelsea) as a parent club do that for you. But it's not that my players are completly out of their depth. In spirit with LLM, I've made sure to keep a healthy rotation and filter out the players that don't make the cut on a higher level. Even if it is your beloved club captain that made 40 goals two seasons ago. And I'll admit, I have an occasional look at the CA in the editor, precisly because my scouts come up with these weird reports that I doubt myself

But to answer your question, Ive had a quick scan (and yes, i made sure the coach with best judging CA/PA does the reports, its the first thing I do when starting at a club). I have 9 - 3 star rated players

-My goalkeeper (who is very strong this season so far) - decent league 1 player

-4th striker - decent league 1 player

-My 2nd central defender - decent  championship player

-Leftback - decent championship player

-2nd rightback - decent league 1 player

-rotation CM - Good league 1 player

-first backup CB - decent league 1 player

-RB- championship level

-BBM- operating at championship level

-DM - operating at championship level

To give you the proper breakdown: backup gk - 2 stars, 5players with 2.5stars - 9 players with 3 stars, 7 players with 3.5 stars and 1 with 4 stars. Yes its a smaller squad than usual, but because i don't use gegenpress and have been spared major injuries on my best players, the fitness levels hold (so far)), but my assistent is definitly right when he says that "there isnt muc  quality outsde the starting 11".

So I disagree that it's because I have a low average level that my scouts come up with these recommendations. A league 2 player would be on the fringes of this team. It also doesnt explain why they bring me players that are either not interested, or disregard the budget completly

I understand where you are coming from, but since you are overachieving as much as you are, and your team seems to be around a good league one team, I don't think a good league two player with high potential is out of the question. With that in mind, you will also be massively under rated in terms of reputation, so I doubt many established Championship players would want to join you currently, potentially even great league one players would hesitate.

So your scouts are in a bit of a pickle here, players who want to join are not good enough, and those who are good don't want to join. So they either have to suggest players who are not good enough (but could be), players that are out of your wage range (currently), or players who are unwilling to join (currently). So the options are limited and the suggestions will suffer.

I'm not saying the game is flawless in this regard, but due to overachieving so much, the game does struggle a bit to keep up. And this is not an easy fix, if the reputation goes up too fast if you are doing well, then overachieving would be even easier! And there are already threads in here about how easy the game is... So it's a difficult balancing act, I assume.

[eXistenZ]

Oh i definitly struggle with reputation. It's only this season I went to national (a bit too late in my opinion). my wage budget is 50% the 2nd to last. My sponsor income is 1/100th of what nr1 gets. Im pretty sure I'm on a lucky stretch and next season i'll be relegated. without proper reinforcements.

 

What is your suggestion then to avoid these reports/suggestions?

[XaW]

25 minutes ago, eXistenZ said:

Oh i definitly struggle with reputation. It's only this season I went to national (a bit too late in my opinion). my wage budget is 50% the 2nd to last. My sponsor income is 1/100th of what nr1 gets. Im pretty sure I'm on a lucky stretch and next season i'll be relegated. without proper reinforcements.

 

What is your suggestion then to avoid these reports/suggestions?

Well, you can change what you want the scouts to show you in the filters in the scouting centre. So if you increase it, you will get less reports in general (perhaps none, if you sett too high demands) if you increase the current level.

Do note that you can get suggestions from agents as well, so pay attention to who the suggestion comes from...

[Mars_Blackmon]

hopefully FM 22 will see less people massively overachieving effortlessly, otherwise stuff like this will happen. 

[eXistenZ]

10 hours ago, XaW said:

Well, you can change what you want the scouts to show you in the filters in the scouting centre. So if you increase it, you will get less reports in general (perhaps none, if you sett too high demands) if you increase the current level.

Do note that you can get suggestions from agents as well, so pay attention to who the suggestion comes from...

thats more hiding the problem than actually fixing it, but I guess its a start. What kind of assignments would you setup in this situation then?

 

Speaking about reputation, how does it exactly work? Is it a gradually increasing scale/slope, or does it hit certain tresholds? The only difference I've noticed from going to national is that I have more pressconferences... Will it give me an increase in stature/finances at the end of the season, or does the game needs to catch up as well there and have a delay?

[XaW]

25 minutes ago, eXistenZ said:

thats more hiding the problem than actually fixing it, but I guess its a start. What kind of assignments would you setup in this situation then?

I wouldn't know for sure. You'd have to experiment and see what fits your preference, really.

26 minutes ago, eXistenZ said:

Speaking about reputation, how does it exactly work? Is it a gradually increasing scale/slope, or does it hit certain tresholds? The only difference I've noticed from going to national is that I have more pressconferences... Will it give me an increase in stature/finances at the end of the season, or does the game needs to catch up as well there and have a delay?

I don't know the exact mechanic, I guess only SI knows for sure, but for what I've seen it seems to be a slow moving thing that goes up and down based on results. But mainly beating teams you are predicted to lose against seems to increase it, and losing to teams you are expected to beat will decrease it. I also think you get a small boost by going far in cups, or by being the "most overachiving" team in any tournament. Much as you'd expect in real life, in essence.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

I guess for a temporary fix, you could adjust the settings to filter reports that are only 3 or 3.5 stars and up? You'd have to monitor it for each season as your team progresses however.

[eXistenZ]

16 hours ago, isignedupfornorealreason said:

I guess for a temporary fix, you could adjust the settings to filter reports that are only 3 or 3.5 stars and up? You'd have to monitor it for each season as your team progresses however.

where can you set that up? I only know of the 60-70-80 recommendation treshold

[Mars_Blackmon]

And to get players that you can currently afford, change from typically to Now.

[sporadicsmiles]

What are you asking your scouts to report to you? You can tell your scouts what to look for in terms of the ability you want in a player when you set up assignments, so this can be one way to go. This player is also being suggested as a signing for the future given that your scout thinks he has an extremely high potential, and is already good enough to be on the fringe of your first team. Seems a reasonable shout from the scout. 

Really if you are getting lots of reports that you are not interested in, you need to set up the scouting to find players you are currently interested in. This may mean doing things manually.

[eXistenZ]

8 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said:

What are you asking your scouts to report to you? You can tell your scouts what to look for in terms of the ability you want in a player when you set up assignments, so this can be one way to go. This player is also being suggested as a signing for the future given that your scout thinks he has an extremely high potential, and is already good enough to be on the fringe of your first team. Seems a reasonable shout from the scout. 

Really if you are getting lots of reports that you are not interested in, you need to set up the scouting to find players you are currently interested in. This may mean doing things manually.

I have one on 3.5stars - loan, another one on 3.5stars end of contract. The others are mostly on standby atm, but I can give them assignments, what do you suggest? Usually I send scouts to all wonderkid regions (SA, eastern europe, scandinavia) etc... but im not at that stage yet, also the work permit rules keep confusing me...

I also get recommendations from the DoF, how much does his reputation matter?

 

8 hours ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

And to get players that you can currently afford, change from typically to Now.

where do you set that?

[sporadicsmiles]

15 hours ago, eXistenZ said:

I have one on 3.5stars - loan, another one on 3.5stars end of contract. The others are mostly on standby atm, but I can give them assignments, what do you suggest? Usually I send scouts to all wonderkid regions (SA, eastern europe, scandinavia) etc... but im not at that stage yet, also the work permit rules keep confusing me...

 

Typically if I am looking for players to sign now I will make sure that the current ability is at least three stars, and availability is set to "now" or "immediate" or whatever the actual phrasing is. That should give me players who are immediately available and immediately able to slot into my first team. I also filter any players who are below 70% recommended so they do not appear in my inbox. It is not perfect, because scouts can be stupid sometimes. You can add whatever additional filters to try and get the sort of players you want. I usually make sure they have decent work rate and determination when I ask my scouts. 

But in general I also make sure I curate my shortlist well, so that I always have players I am potentially interested in signing in the next window (or windows) on there. That way I can let my scouts do their make weird suggestions things and just keep the players that they find that I also like. This way scouting is not immediately critical to my transfer efforts. Depending on how you play (some people do not like using player search), you can do a bit of manual scouting. I do not spend huge amounts of time doing this, but I will periodically check who is transfer listed, who has a contract running down, and who is unhappy. I trust myself to pick these things up better than my scouts. 

[eXistenZ]

2 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said:

Typically if I am looking for players to sign now I will make sure that the current ability is at least three stars, and availability is set to "now" or "immediate" or whatever the actual phrasing is. That should give me players who are immediately available and immediately able to slot into my first team. I also filter any players who are below 70% recommended so they do not appear in my inbox. It is not perfect, because scouts can be stupid sometimes. You can add whatever additional filters to try and get the sort of players you want. I usually make sure they have decent work rate and determination when I ask my scouts. 

 

Yeah, i know you can filter on 70+ recommendation only, but the championship  level players they find get like a 65, and the Vanarama National/League 2 players get a 75+ (as shown above).

Offcours, those Championship players initially diplay no desire to join, but that changes at the ticking over of the season when they become free players. But my scoutingwork needs to be done by July 1st so I know who to sign and hopefully beat the competition.

 

It just remains a lot of manual labor for something that basicly should be done by your staff.  That scouts (or your DoF at times) have no grasp of either your budget or the division you are playing in, just seems bizarre at times

[sporadicsmiles]

2 hours ago, eXistenZ said:

Yeah, i know you can filter on 70+ recommendation only, but the championship  level players they find get like a 65, and the Vanarama National/League 2 players get a 75+ (as shown above).

 

Yeah, this is annoying, because scouts highly value potential ability in their assessment. This is definitely something it would be nice to easily tell your scouts. "Find me players who are good now" and "find me players for the future". Maybe someone else knows how to do it. 

2 hours ago, eXistenZ said:

It just remains a lot of manual labor for something that basicly should be done by your staff.  That scouts (or your DoF at times) have no grasp of either your budget or the division you are playing in, just seems bizarre at times

Can't argue with you there. In my current save I am being given a bunch of players who are good enough for Vanarama N/S but with apparently lots of potential. I just got promoted to the EPL. Admittedly my scouts are not great at the moment, which does not help, but sometimes they just give you crap when you do not manage them. It would be nice to see this a little bit easier to automate. I do not mind controlling scouting and keeping on top of players myself, but for people who either do not have the time or the motivation to do this it is annoying.

I hope you can find a solution that is at least workable for you.

[riv3th3ad]

You may find it useful to set the "transfer budget" dropdown when creating some or all of your scouting assignments. If my transfer budget was 500,000 and I felt the squad needed 3 players, I'd probably set it to 100,000. If i only need a better player in one spot, maybe you set it to 500k or leave it on auto.