Has any got examples of "sane" tactics?

[kornflex]

Hi

This year I've been struggling with FM. It seems that anything but attacking, gegenpressing, overlapping, etc. tactics are MUCH harder to get to work, than simple 4-4-2, 4-1-2-2-1, 4-1-4-1 formations with little to none team instructions. As I usually start as underdog teams I'm having a hard time getting momentum as defensive tactics just seems sub par in every situation. I'm not going to use plug and play tactics (but don't mind others do) and I'm not going 4-2-3-1 attacking even though it often is the best solution.

So, has anyone examples of s i m p l e tactics that you would be able to imagine a low level underdog team play?

[wixxi]

Check the pinned "Tactic and Strategy Guides" thread, there are some good links there of tactics built around minimalism.

Edit:  Something like this for example should be a good read

Edited June 8, 2020 by wixxi

[Orikoru]

This just got me 21 league games unbeaten with Roma, and I don't think it's overly complicated. It's almost a 1990's 4-4-2 other than having IWBs instead of FBs. (Ignore the 'shorter passing' I only use that occasionally.)

Edited June 8, 2020 by Orikoru

[JEinchy]

Used this in my first season at Feyenoord. Won the Eredivisie unbeaten and reached the semi-finals of the Europa League.

It forms a lop-sided 4-3-3 in attack. The WP(S) combines with the CM(D) and CM(S) to circulate the ball in midfield before switching it to the W(A) on the other side, who usually has a lot of space and gets 1v1 with his full back. My W(A) got 16 goals and 14 assists in all comps. 

The WP(S) also has the option of the longer pass to the AF, or slipping the FB(A) in down the flank. The FB(A) can then cross for the two strikers of the W(A) coming in at the back post. 

Right FB(S) told to Overlap so the W(A) doesn't become isolated.

I use High DL/LoE out of preference but you can easily lower them to turn this into a counter-attacking tactic.

[afailed10]

50 minutes ago, JEinchy said:

Used this in my first season at Feyenoord. Won the Eredivisie unbeaten and reached the semi-finals of the Europa League.

It forms a lop-sided 4-3-3 in attack. The WP(S) combines with the CM(D) and CM(S) to circulate the ball in midfield before switching it to the W(A) on the other side, who usually has a lot of space and gets 1v1 with his full back. My W(A) got 16 goals and 14 assists in all comps. 

The WP(S) also has the option of the longer pass to the AF, or slipping the FB(A) in down the flank. The FB(A) can then cross for the two strikers of the W(A) coming in at the back post. 

Right FB(S) told to Overlap so the W(A) doesn't become isolated.

I use High DL/LoE out of preference but you can easily lower them to turn this into a counter-attacking tactic.

A similar system (almost a carbon copy of yours) has been posted and very well explained. It's a very good read because it focuses on the basics of what actually matters in FM. Creating and using space.

[JEinchy]

The 4-4-2 is just a fun formation to work with because it's easy to customise depending on the sorts of players you have. 

I had a much more adventurous variation in my Sevilla save. Same roles and duties for the backline, but a midfield and forward line of:

WP(S) CAR(S) MEZ(S) IW(A)

PF(A) T(A)

Which looks a bit nutty on paper but the same principles of Overload > Switch > Penetrate apply. WP(S) works together with the CAR(S), the MEZ(S) plays closer to the IW(A) so he's not isolated, and the IW(A) penetrates the space. PF(A) and T(A) attack the box but can also drop off to support the midfield. I only played that way because I had Vision and Flair in abundance, whereas at Feyenoord I didn't so I simplified it. 

I had an even simpler variation at Southend:

WM(S) BWM(D) CM(S) IW(A)

P(A) DLF(S)

Again, it's the same principles. One hard-working side to accommodate a more aggressive full-back, the other side is more creative and attacking, and the pairing up top is typical big man-little man. 

If you're looking for something simple to work that can teach you about creating and using space, I highly recommend 4-4-2.

[Enzo_Francescoli]

3 hours ago, JEinchy said:

Used this in my first season at Feyenoord. Won the Eredivisie unbeaten and reached the semi-finals of the Europa League.

It forms a lop-sided 4-3-3 in attack. The WP(S) combines with the CM(D) and CM(S) to circulate the ball in midfield before switching it to the W(A) on the other side, who usually has a lot of space and gets 1v1 with his full back. My W(A) got 16 goals and 14 assists in all comps. 

The WP(S) also has the option of the longer pass to the AF, or slipping the FB(A) in down the flank. The FB(A) can then cross for the two strikers of the W(A) coming in at the back post. 

Right FB(S) told to Overlap so the W(A) doesn't become isolated.

I use High DL/LoE out of preference but you can easily lower them to turn this into a counter-attacking tactic.

I've been using something eerily similar on my youth only save, but have never been fully satisfied with it. That said, most of my players are between 16 and 20 years of age. It took me 10 years to make it from Tier 5 to Tier 1 in France.

I started using that system is Tier 2. My problem was I have never been able to really get the WP going. Something may be off with that role. The overlap is a good idea, I've been avoiding it because I didn't want to lower my W(a)'s mentality whom I envisioned as a goalscorer. But what you wrote about it is logical. I used TM(s) (later CF(s) when I had a player for it)- PF(a) and a mid block, otherwise it's basically the same as yours.

[kr10]

3 hours ago, Enzo_Francescoli said:

I've been using something eerily similar on my youth only save, but have never been fully satisfied with it. That said, most of my players are between 16 and 20 years of age. It took me 10 years to make it from Tier 5 to Tier 1 in France.

I started using that system is Tier 2. My problem was I have never been able to really get the WP going. Something may be off with that role. The overlap is a good idea, I've been avoiding it because I didn't want to lower my W(a)'s mentality whom I envisioned as a goalscorer. But what you wrote about it is logical. I used TM(s) (later CF(s) when I had a player for it)- PF(a) and a mid block, otherwise it's basically the same as yours.

Can you post your setup? The 442 article linked above was done by me, and the WP was meant to be the star of the team. It comes down to the role of the midfielder next to him, attack/support distribution of strikers, and in general players to create space in and around him. I can share my thoughts on your 442, having run a WP 442 myself across a couple editions of FM and 30+ seasons 

[鹅爵爷]

When I manage an underdog, which doesn't have strong players in every position, I would overload and focus all my build-up ability on one side and finish on the other. 

[Enzo_Francescoli]

57 minutes ago, kr10 said:

Can you post your setup? The 442 article linked above was done by me, and the WP was meant to be the star of the team. It comes down to the role of the midfielder next to him, attack/support distribution of strikers, and in general players to create space in and around him. I can share my thoughts on your 442, having run a WP 442 myself across a couple editions of FM and 30+ seasons 

Sure. I've abandoned this system already, but this what it went like, with slight tweaks here and there.

 

[kr10]

1 hour ago, Enzo_Francescoli said:

Sure. I've abandoned this system already, but this what it went like, with slight tweaks here and there.

 

Roles and duties look fine to me, I would just make the CF a PF(s) and the PF(a) an AF(a), I’ve found this works best. 

Looking at your team instructions, the setup looks to be a bit too aggressive and forceful on the ball. You are already pressing high up the pitch and restricting space to the opposition, meaning that there isn’t likely to be much space behind the opponents defense when in possession. In my opinion, this high block with direct passing, higher tempo, and hit early crosses is going to lead to unnecessarily rushed and forced attacking moves, which could mean loss of possession. 
 

Given that the right side requires an overlap to generate width, I think you would benefit from removing direct passing, higher tempo, and early crosses. All of these encourage quicker delivery from wide areas, which might not give your full back enough time to overlap. The overlapping fullback is key not only to provide width, but also to drag a defender and give the WP more space and passing options. 
 

Another aspect I found helpful was playing with a narrower defensive block, and this restricts space in central areas and forces opponents wide, where you will always be strong in a 442. 
 

Finally, what is the footedness of your WP and strikers? I’m assuming the WP is left footed, but are both the strikers right footed? I’ve found that with the above setup, 2 right footed strikers is critical (explained in more detail in my post). 
 

finally, tall strikers make a massive difference, given the frequency of crosses this will generate. 

Regarding mentality I went with positive as I found it to be the best for a high block. 

Fully up to you, but the 442 above when it works well has produced the best football I’ve seen across any of my saves. Happy to also provide further comments should you wish to give this setup another go. 

[Enzo_Francescoli]

19 minutes ago, kr10 said:

Roles and duties look fine to me, I would just make the CF a PF(s) and the PF(a) an AF(a), I’ve found this works best. 

Looking at your team instructions, the setup looks to be a bit too aggressive and forceful on the ball. You are already pressing high up the pitch and restricting space to the opposition, meaning that there isn’t likely to be much space behind the opponents defense when in possession. In my opinion, this high block with direct passing, higher tempo, and hit early crosses is going to lead to unnecessarily rushed and forced attacking moves, which could mean loss of possession. 
 

Given that the right side requires an overlap to generate width, I think you would benefit from removing direct passing, higher tempo, and early crosses. All of these encourage quicker delivery from wide areas, which might not give your full back enough time to overlap. The overlapping fullback is key not only to provide width, but also to drag a defender and give the WP more space and passing options. 
 

Another aspect I found helpful was playing with a narrower defensive block, and this restricts space in central areas and forces opponents wide, where you will always be strong in a 442. 
 

Finally, what is the footedness of your WP and strikers? I’m assuming the WP is left footed, but are both the strikers right footed? I’ve found that with the above setup, 2 right footed strikers is critical (explained in more detail in my post). 
 

finally, tall strikers make a massive difference, given the frequency of crosses this will generate. 

Regarding mentality I went with positive as I found it to be the best for a high block. 

Fully up to you, but the 442 above when it works well has produced the best football I’ve seen across any of my saves. Happy to also provide further comments should you wish to give this setup another go. 

Thanks for the advice. Like I said, this is a youth only save, so I've been playing kids for 10 years. By the age of 20, either the board had sold them, or weren't good enough, as we were going through the tiers.

We never had the composure and concentration on the team to play anything but some kind of  a direct passing style. Likewise, I've never really had a striker with the finishing, anticipation AND speed to play AF.

I've always trained my WP's weaker foot, so those players were comfortable with both.

The system definitely has potential, though. Once I return to that save and spend a few years in Ligue 1 (with our maxed out facilities), I'll probably have the plyars for it.

I clicked on your thread, it's really well explained, and almost the same as my tactic. I haven't seen yours before as I never go to the tactics download section - it's way too depressing for me.