The 3d Stadium discussion

[?]

Hi everyone,

I've been looking into the possiblility of making 3d stadia and crowds and came across a thing called the Google 3d warehouse, which contains ope source rendorings of a whole lot of stadia. Now, I have no experience of 3d rendoring, and correct me if I'm wrong, but would the likes of these nto work in FM09? The camara angles are just that- casmara angles. Its still a 3d stadium rendoring underneath.

Have a look here:

Old Trafford: http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=1f8ba8e441d73f7faaa0c1ae2133ce97&prevstart=0

I know there is the issue of tagging per club. If this is indeed as problem, there are also downloadable crowds:

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=2fbb2b6690a6f3afa10841813535c0ed&prevstart=0

If anybody wants to make their own stuff, Google Isketch is apparently the way to go on this. Its seemingly very easy to use: http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/. To download http://sketchup.google.com/intl/en/.

Whats evryones thoughts on this? Can anyone have a shot at including the 3d Old Trafford in the game?

[RichyG]

I could make you 3D models of anything you wanted... but I know of no way to import these into the game engine...

[?]

I could make you 3D models of anything you wanted... but I know of no way to import these into the game engine...

Surely there is a file that contains these initial rendorings? ie: the stadia currently in the game. Would it not be an idea to just replace this file?

[brunnoce]

why cant someone from si clear these things for us?

[rabcp]

Iv'e had a quick look for the stadiums. The stadiums files seem to be in the following directory C:/program files/sports interactive/football manager 09/data/sigfx/meshes/stadium

This folder has the following 3d files

• football_stadium_01.sia
  
• football_stadium_02.sia
  
• football_stadium_03.sia
  
• football_stadium_04.sia
  
• football_stadium_05.sia
  
• football_stadium_06.sia
  

and two graphic files

• pitch_outside_default.png
  
• outer_pitch_shader.png
  

I’m assuming these files are the default stadiums.

There is also a disabled folder, which has the following files

• convert.bat
  
• football_stadium_02.mtl
  
• football_stadium_02.obj
  
• football_stadium_02.sia
  
• pitch.png
  

I’m assuming this is the files we have to produce in order to make a stadium

The 3d files are opened using a programme called Silo (I’m sure other programmes could also possibly be used though) there is a trial version available here Silo 30 day trial. However after opening all of the default 3d files no content has appeared in silo so far

[joshmay07]

This would be great someone should risk it a try it and let us know if it works

[KBK909]

that would be awesome, But its a risk.

[rabcp]

This would be great someone should risk it a try it and let us know if it works

Intill we know the file format FM uses and how we create files in this file format there is verry little we can do

[?]

Intill we know the file format FM uses and how we create files in this file format there is verry little we can do

SLV is the file type. We would just have to convert the Google Isketch format into slv.

[joshmay07]

ifr some did this and found it foolproff would be amazing

get this for the mighty yeovil http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=cfa4b6e1e0d4391d34c3d9b8794694c&prevstart=0

[?]

OK, it seems that if somebody can get their hands on the Pro version of Sketchup, you can export files to obj or sia format. This means that we should in theory be able to convert those stadiums to the SIA file format that FM wants ( and SILO can open).

I've also tried opeing the sia files with the 30 day trial of silo but it loaded and nothing appeared. I'm sure it could be opened with other propriatry software, as from what I gather, the sia file format is standard across the board. I'm going to try and download some more stuff and attempt to open those current sia files. Not sure atm why SILO displays nothing.

PS: Can somebody link this thread over to Susie? We could use their help. I dont have an account over there.

PPS: Can somebody post what we're trying to do onto the Google sketchup and Silo community boards? It would be helpfull to have their input.

[radestock]

SLV is the file type. We would just have to convert the Google Isketch format into slv.

They are .sia format. My thinking (seeing as they don't sppear to be silo files) is that it might be an internal SI format (si-a).

It's not going that simple either. Whilst the pro version of Sketchup (it's not iSketch) can export as .obj, who knows whether those stadiums created for google earth are even the right size or makeup to be compatible with the game even when converted.

[?]

Thanks Rade.

I think id they are to scale there's a good chance theat they'll work. Regarding the .sia files, I'm pretty sure that their not a custom format. .sia is a known silo file type, it just does'nt want to display them for some reason. They load without error.

[brunnoce]

well i think another thing to consider would be how to assign stadiums, its clear to me that there are stadium assigments in the game, im playing a game with everton, and i aways have that big 3d rounded stadium(looks like emirates), and everytime i see a lower league macth, they have that english style (square) stadium...

also there are picth type assigments, goodison uses the same picth pather every game, so those are 2 things si could let us assign too, that way once we manage to add stadiums in the game we will also be able to assign them to the correct stadium in the game.

[?]

BTW, I'm wondering if these files have to have the .sia file extension? I don't see any config file there anywhere saying it must be. The Sketchup files when download are in a .dae format. I'm wondering will they just work?

Really need someone from SI to comment on this as otherwise its just guess work.

PS: An interesting artciel about converting .dae files into 3ds

http://forums.devshed.com/game-development-141/converting-sketchup-models-to-3dst-519710.html

[SmurfDude]

well i think another thing to consider would be how to assign stadiums, its clear to me that there are stadium assigments in the game, im playing a game with everton, and i aways have that big 3d rounded stadium(looks like emirates), and everytime i see a lower league macth, they have that english style (square) stadium...

also there are picth type assigments, goodison uses the same picth pather every game, so those are 2 things si could let us assign too, that way once we manage to add stadiums in the game we will also be able to assign them to the correct stadium in the game.

If I had to guess I would say generic stadiums were assigned based on capacity

[brunnoce]

thats a good guess too, and it if its the case i think its not the best cenario, as for me the possibility to have each real stadium for each team assigned to them would be a lot better.

[radestock]

BTW, I'm wondering if these files have to have the .sia file extension? I don't see any config file there anywhere saying it must be. The Sketchup files when download are in a .dae format. I'm wondering will they just work?

Really need someone from SI to comment on this as otherwise its just guess work.

PS: An interesting artciel about converting .dae files into 3ds

http://forums.devshed.com/game-development-141/converting-sketchup-models-to-3dst-519710.html

They aren't going to 'just work'. Whenever has Football Manager been that simple?

There will need to some sort of conversion process involved, as well as the stadiums having to have specific sizes, pieces and probably names within the file itself - you know, indicators as to where the pitch would be etc. Just because they are to scale in real life doesn't mean they'll work on FM.

[An4r3w]

that would be awesome, But its a risk.

if this works it will be amazing stuff :thup:

for now i resort to playing with no stadiums or sky.

[rabcp]

BTW, I'm wondering if these files have to have the .sia file extension? I don't see any config file there anywhere saying it must be. The Sketchup files when download are in a .dae format. I'm wondering will they just work?[/url]

There is no chance it'll just work

First of all there may be size issues for example a meter in the si files may be the size of 5 meters in the google files.

Second of all there are the textures, we need to work out how to map these, these will be saved as a seprate file and still have to link into the model otherwise you will just have grey stadiums

It's not as simple as just hoping for the best it'll be a long and complex process trying to crack the correct file types, producing the correct file types and then coming up with a successfully created stadium.

without help from SI staff or the FIFA/PRO EVE community (these guys have so much experience in this field) it may never happen!

[Ascanius]

This would be awesome, unfortunately I have no knowledge on this kind of thing

[PompeY2J]

They aren't going to 'just work'. Whenever has Football Manager been that simple?

There will need to some sort of conversion process involved, as well as the stadiums having to have specific sizes, pieces and probably names within the file itself - you know, indicators as to where the pitch would be etc. Just because they are to scale in real life doesn't mean they'll work on FM.

Geographic coordinates are hard-coded into a model with a ge layer. won't this correspond with the coordinates hardcoded into the location of the stadium in FM09?

[rabcp]

Iv'e had a little bit of a break through... the key word being little

Iv'e managed to open up the football_stadium_02.obj file in the stadium/disabled folder with rhino 3d, however I still havent been able to open any .sia files.

If these stadiums are all the same structure then it looks like that stadium is made from several meshes 12 in this case (most FIFA stadiums have over 8,000)

However it at least gives us a idea of the stadiums size wise. The pitch is 120 x 195 squares in Rhino 3D , in Rhino 3D 1 square = 1 meter so the pitch in Rhino 3D is sized at 120 meters by 195 meters. This is a massive size and means the pitch is bigger in FM than it is in FIFA or PRO EV so we probally wont be able to convert stadiums previously made for these games into FM format

Renderd View

Mesh View

[brunnoce]

so emirates is the default SI stadium ...interesting

[GerdMuller]

Would be awesome if stadiums could be done. This thread just pushed my hope. I dont want any FIFA like stadiums, just basic shapes would be awesome.

[brunnoce]

Would be awesome if stadiums could be done. This thread just pushed my hope. I dont want any FIFA like stadiums, just basic shapes would be awesome.

i agree with u..we dont need any think fancy...simple shapes with any texture would be great, and would add a lot to the game atmosphere.

[GavinZac]

They refuse to open in Blender anyway, though there might be some sort of conversion method.

[rabcp]

They refuse to open in Blender anyway, though there might be some sort of conversion method.

Intill we can get a conversion method there is not a lot we do

[rabcp]

Would be awesome if stadiums could be done. This thread just pushed my hope. I dont want any FIFA like stadiums, just basic shapes would be awesome.

When you say basic, would this be basic enough, id agree with your point id love to see HQ stadiums in FM, however it would just look odd with the current match engine

Obviously everyone wants a crowd for the stadium and this could be easily added as long as we could be able to import textures with custom stadiums, This is just a 20 min muck around and only uses 5 textures, which would help keep files sizes down

[GerdMuller]

Thats far beyond basic for me, would be an absolute dream to have stadiums of this quality with some people (dots) in it.

[GerdMuller]

I think something like in New Star Soccer 4 would be the optimum.

[stvndysn]

They refuse to open in Blender anyway, though there might be some sort of conversion method.

i dont know why you cant import a simple .obj file into blender

come on si give us a tool so we can convert models please

i have a friend who is decompiling a .sia file for me and he mentioned that there is a mention of a SHSM file in the .sia file

also to let you know the animation files are .sia as well

[coakesy]

Would be delighted if this could be done. Obviously there is a way. It's just finding that way. Anything to fancy and it wouldn't look right. Has to somehow fit in with the graphics of the match. If it could be done then it would much improve the match day experience.

[_Chief_]

No secret to this, SI have mentioned in one of its blogs that this is going to be possible, they in fact if I recall correctly even mentioned the software to use and a site to go and look for ideas and examples.

Edit:

http://hmv.com/hmvweb/navigate.do?ctx=3583;6;-1;-1&pPageID=3604

Excerpt:

"...Talking about the stadiums, we have built some customisation into the game. If you are so inclined you will be able to make your own stadium and the graphics engine will recognise it. There are lots of shareware 3d modelling packages out there, try Googling for one with Wavefront OBJ support."

[Spurs_Q82]

It would be nice to see these staduims, but while players height and faces aren't included, it would be hard for SI to develop the stadiums by that way, I think it would be good ( at least ) if they can Indivisible teams by [ Huge stadium, Normal stadium, small staduim, small stands, just pitch ] .. then if they can show [ Full attendance - average ] for game consdering to other facts in the game.

[GavinZac]

Players heights and faces are in another folder.

I've been poking around the stadium gfx folder.

the .mtl file...

newmtl Default

Ns 255

d 0.2

illum 2

Kd 0.834913 0.954757 0.944381

Ks 1 1 1



newmtl sand

Ns 255

d 1

illum 2

Kd 0.718547 0.752575 0.660746

Ks 1 1 1



newmtl tribune

Ns 255

d 1

illum 2

Kd 0.233028 0.238888 0.201518

Ks 1 1 1



newmtl grass

Ns 255

d 1

illum 2

Kd 0.68 0.32 0.32

Ks 1 1 1

map_Kd /Users/aurelio/perforce_data/cm4/media/artwork/aurelio/3d/Football Stadium/material/grass_texture.png



newmtl pitch

Ns 255

d 1

illum 2

Kd 0.051606 0.674205 0

Ks 1 1 1

map_Kd /Users/aurelio/perforce_data/cm4/media/artwork/aurelio/3d/Football Stadium/material/pitch.png



newmtl glass

Ns 255

d 0.2

illum 2

Kd 0.834913 0.954757 0.944381

Ks 1 1 1



newmtl aluminium

Ns 255

d 1

illum 2

Kd 0.846159 0.846159 0.846159

Ks 1 1 1



newmtl white

Ns 255

d 1

illum 2

Kd 1 1 1

Ks 1 1 1



newmtl Hordings

Ns 255

d 1

illum 2

Kd 1 1 1

Ks 1 1 1

map_Kd /Users/aurelio/perforce_data/cm4/media/artwork/aurelio/3d/Football Stadium/material/si_sega_banner.png



newmtl Hordings1

Ns 255

d 1

illum 2

Kd 1 1 1

Ks 1 1 1

map_Kd /Users/aurelio/perforce_data/cm4/media/artwork/aurelio/3d/Football Stadium/material/si_sega_banner.png



newmtl Hordings2

Ns 255

d 1

illum 2

Ks 1 1 1

Kd 1 1 1

map_Kd /Users/aurelio/perforce_data/cm4/media/artwork/aurelio/3d/Football Stadium/material/si_sega_banner.png



newmtl Hordings3

Ns 255

d 1

illum 2

Ks 1 1 1

Kd 1 1 1

map_Kd /Users/aurelio/perforce_data/cm4/media/artwork/aurelio/3d/Football Stadium/material/si_sega_banner.png



newmtl concrete

Ns 255

d 1

illum 2

Kd 0.760174 0.760174 0.760174

Ks 1 1 1

map_Kd /Users/aurelio/perforce_data/cm4/media/artwork/aurelio/3d/Football Stadium/material/people.png

CM4? What?

[GavinZac]

The models themselves seem to have been developed in Luxology's "modo" software. It's only $835 to download it ... the obj file in the disabled folder is in no way encrypted so something should open it.

[GavinZac]

There's a free trial version of Modo, http://www.luxology.com/trymodo/ Downloading at the moment but I've a slow connection

[DANNY1000000]

Why cant someone from SI just give people some pointers?

[stvndysn]

the reason why you wont find any 3d software to open it is most likely because its si's own format and we would either need a tool from si that will convert it to a usable mesh file or they supply us with the various import/export scripts for apps like blender, 3ds max, etc.

[GavinZac]

the reason why you wont find any 3d software to open it is most likely because its si's own format and we would either need a tool from si that will convert it to a usable mesh file or they supply us with the various import/export scripts for apps like blender, 3ds max, etc.

SIA file format is a Silo file format.

http://www.nevercenter.com/

[GavinZac]

There's a trial version of Silo available and its a much small download, but its not working right in Linux.

[stvndysn]

There's a trial version of Silo available and its a much small download, but its not working right in Linux.

i downloaded it and managed to get it in silo but as you can see theres nothing there

[Giarc Ronyag]

A very interesting read guys, hows the development of these stadiums coming along?

[stvndysn]

Ter if your reading this could you please find out or inform us if there is going to be a tool/import/export scripts so we can build our own stadiums

[DANNY1000000]

tell us for the love of god... please

[GavinZac]

i downloaded it and managed to get it in silo but as you can see theres nothing there

I'll try to get some expert Silo users to take a look at it later and figure out if its just hidden or something. It opens with no issues and should be supported by I've not used Silo before and couldn't actually figure out how to zoom out like I had to in Blender.

[PGB_SPURS_FM09]

Like somebody said earlier in the blogs they did on HMV they give you suggestions of software to download in which you can make these stadiums... I'm just adding to this conversation as i think it would be a brilliant thing to have in game... Would be nice. Has anyone actually tried downloading any of the software packages that SI suggested? Are they free tools?

[stvndysn]

Talking about the stadiums, we have built some customisation into the game. If you are so inclined you will be able to make your own stadium and the graphics engine will recognise it. There are lots of shareware 3d modelling packages out there, try Googling for one with Wavefront OBJ support.

it doesnt really say how we can get our stadiums into game as none of the freeware apps have .sia export,but practically every 3d app supports .obj

[DANNY1000000]

I believe SI are adding stadiums into FML, so its the same engine and 3D setup therefore should be possible