Agent Tiro Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 don't you just love law students, they read a few cases and think they can put the world to rights. The only thing thats annoying me at the minute is that i still don't have my copy of fm2009 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Tiro Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 don't you just love law students, they read a few cases and think they can put the world to rights. The only thing thats annoying me at the minute is that i still don't have my copy of fm2009 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GillsMan Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 When you put the game in and install it, does it work?Did SI make any claims that it would be bug free, flaw free and crash free? So there's an issue you know about that causes a crash if you perform a simple action. Surely you should simply not perform that action? Software has bugs. It doesn't have to be bug free to be fit for purpose. Same with LCD screens. They get dead pixels at times. It doesn't have to be dead pixel free to be considered sellable, it merely has to not be "too bad". If FM09 didn't work on Macs you'd have an argument, but it does work. You just found a way to crash it. Most companies will exchange monitors with three dead pixels or more iirc; but not one or two. So you're correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Internomad Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 don't you just love law students, they read a few cases and think they can put the world to rights. The only thing thats annoying me at the minute is that i still don't have my copy of fm2009 Yep, we get this every year. New law student learns a bit about law then tries to impress people by having a go at games companies! To the OP, try taking SI on in court, I bet you lose! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopToffee Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 As a law student at UoL, this is the first time in all my years of playing CM/FM have I believe SI violated the Sales of Goods Act 1979 (SGA 79) and breached their contract at release. The seller (SI) sells goods in the course of a business, there is an implied condition that the goods supplied under the contract are of satisfactory quality, except in relation to defects drawn to the buyer's attention before the contract was concluded. The purchaser is NOT REQUIRED to prove that the seller was at fault in selling goods which were not of satisfactory quality; the seller may have taken all reasonable steps to ensure that the goods were of satisfactory quality but he will still be in breach of contract if they are not of such quality.This is a statutory violation of the law, and every breach of a valid and enforceable contract gives to the innocent party a right to recover damages in respect of the loss suffered as a result of the breach, unless the liability for breach has been effectively excluded by an appropriately drafted exclusion clause, which is within the bounds of another statutory act, the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 (UCTA 77). Here then, we need to establish whether the breach by SI has been a condition or a warranty. In sections 12-15 of SGA 79, there are certain terms already implied into contracts for the sale of goods. These terms implied are "satisfactory quality", "fitness for purpose "and "compliance with description and sample" are declared to be conditions. SI is clearly in breach of "fitness for purpose" for the Mac version of this game released. Others can argue that their Windows version and the authentication process violates such conditions as stated in the above. Since this is a statutory violation and not a common law violation, no previous case law is required to support this claim. I encourage other law students to partake in this discussion, and also have a chat with their law professors this coming Monday. Thanks. I hope SI treats this seriously as we do all have rights under the English Legal System to prevent poor goods from being released into the market prematurely. This does not exclude you SI. I also believe this is the most constructive criticism and approach instead of moaning and complaining. you must be an absolutely USELESS law student if you think that SI are the seller. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Internomad Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Harlow Brown: It makes sense. So SI would be selling their right to license the game which would waive any sort of responsibility on the quality and usability of the game itself right?Davet010: yes I do not hide that I am just a student. I am posting to learn more anyways. What have you got to say besides one-liner garbage? Why not take your rantings to a law forum, not a games forum! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCfan Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 To break the requirement of the sale of goods act, it would have to be proved beyond doubt that your copy of FM crashes on every Mac. If the media is proved to be the problem, then the retailer would quite happily exchange it for a working copy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aberdeen_raith Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 The only thig I'd through out there, is technically the box is guilty of false advertising; The front of the case specifies that the game is for Mac, and that it is a Universal Binary (the logo beside the Mac Finder logo) however the game is Intel only, no? UB means that the codebase for both PPC hardware and Intel hardware is written within the software, and my understanding is that FM09 is Intel only; Having the installer as a UB doesn't mean that you can put it on the box, it just means you're doubling the underlying code for a platform you don't support... Its not a deliberate ploy (i assume), but its a dubious claim... C'mon Marc, next printing of the labels, get the UB symbol off the front, save some grief from the PPC owners who won't be able to play it... /End Thought For The Day Right, I'm off to play the new shinyness on my shiny new MacBook... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deyong Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 you must be an absolutely USELESS law student if you think that SI are the seller. finally !!! your right, Si aren't the seller, infact nor are sega, who produce the game. I hope this law student doesn't represent me if I ever need a good lawyer ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ookie Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 seriously, you people on thix board make me sick, it's just a good intelligent theory and argument someone has posted for discussion, and the abuse from the sycophantic fanboys is pathetic, yes we realise you love the ****ing game, you don't win extra points by mindlessly slagging everyone else off who has an opinion which isn't SI R GREAT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Bayliss Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 People are playing the game. People are enjoying the game. The game works.Go back to bed and stop thinking. no. it doesnt. 2 days and no activation activation phone number engaged ridiculous activation program stuff making it impossible to play Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dublx Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 People are playing the game. People are enjoying the game. The game works.Go back to bed and stop thinking. People are indeed playing the game. Mainly with cracked ready to instantly play copies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dublx Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Don't you just really, really f****ing despise with a passion a*se licking fanboys. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meefloaf Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 we're all fan boys of the ol football manager (i've been on it since cm3). but some folk do seem to have rose tinted glasses on when it comes to SI, they've ****ed up majorly and ****ed off alot of their fans, i feel sorry for some poor folk who bought it and dont have the net, or don't come on here to find out whats going down Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Don't you just really, really f****ing despise with a passion a*se licking fanboys. Absolutely. I hold people who have a general positive attitude about SI and FM without resorting to childish cursing in the highest regards though, infraction boy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anagain Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 no. it doesnt.2 days and no activation activation phone number engaged ridiculous activation program stuff making it impossible to play I'm playing. I've been playing since 5am this morning. SI have a few problems with servers. They most likely underestimated the demand on those servers, and have done everything in their power to fix the problem. They have done so for a good number of people. They have apologised for the mess time and again. What are people going to sue them for? One or two lost days of playing a game that will be good for a year to come (probable release of next year's edition)? £30 of lost money? What's the damn point when any problems that still remain will be fixed and all but a few (probably doing something wrong) can not play the game? As well as FM I currently play Warhammer Online. Now it's a good game, but there are problems with population numbers and some game mechanics not working as intended. I have subscribed for 3 months and paid out £30, or so, for the game. Now if I am not happy do I take Mythic Entertainment to court for not providing the game I expected? If the servers go down do I take Mythic Entertainment to court for not letting me play the game? No, I get on with my damn life and stop being an idiot. It's a damn computer game for heaven's sake. If your life is so meaningless that you feel the need to start court proceedings because you can not play a game, then you need to do something else. Why do law student's feel they have to be smart and bring law into this. Anyone would think it was a life changing issue. If I was some court and some guy bought this case to me, then I would laugh my tits off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GillsMan Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Can we please stop the childish insults ("fanboys", "brown nosers", etc) now please. We can have a debate without resorting to petty insults. Ta, GM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anagain Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Oh, I guess I'm an FM fanboy who never gives SI any stick on any issue. Not so, really. I've had qualms. If I have qualms then I may just bring them up. I just don't see the need to resort to abuse, bad language, anger or desperation. It's a game. What's the point in getting overly worked up about the thing? What's the point in trying to be smart and talking legal action against a company that have worked hard to make an engrossing management sim, but have hit snags? Did they sit there and think, 'I know, let's nark off the community. Let's make the server unable to handle the workload.' No, of course not. Calm down people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selleckta Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 seriously, you people on thix board make me sick, it's just a good intelligent theory and argument someone has posted for discussion, and the abuse from the sycophantic fanboys is pathetic, yes we realise you love the ****ing game, you don't win extra points by mindlessly slagging everyone else off who has an opinion which isn't SI R GREAT It's theory and argument that is rehashed for only the benefit of raising everyone's blood-pressure every single year when the game is released, and has become frankly a depressing alternative to simply enjoying the game or doing something else enjoyable until you are able to play, for those suffering from problems. I would also add that the notion that abuse on these boards is chiefly from fanboys is laughable. The majority of the abusive posting I have witnessed of late is from people who are either unable to contain their emotions and those jumping on their bandwagon. There was some appalling abuse last night of various people, some of whom were SI/SEGA employees, which was completely unjustified and inexcusable. It is never acceptable to hurl torrents of insults at someone, even if you find them responsible for causing a frustrating situation. Never. If you want to take a law-student perspective, there could certainly be legal arguments against such behaviour. If it happened in the street, it could be deemed common assault! But this is all very law-studenty and reminds me of my second-year mooting society. If we're having a theorectical legal debate, then fine, but we're not. People react too extremely. Mainly with cracked ready to instantly play copies. Garbage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ookie Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 tell me then, what is wrong with this thread? it seems like it would be a theoretical legal debate if loads of silly sods didnt just jump down his throat from the start Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crouchaldinho Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 [...]to claim any breach of such an act is quite ridiculous and only highlights your low level of understanding of the law. a few more years with your nose in the books and youll look back at this thread in embarrassment. Totally agree with this post. Well said --b--! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCfan Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 His argument is full of holes and not thought through properly - probably due to anger and frustration Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celtic_1967 Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 seriously, you people on thix board make me sick, it's just a good intelligent theory and argument someone has posted for discussion, and the abuse from the sycophantic fanboys is pathetic, yes we realise you love the ****ing game, you don't win extra points by mindlessly slagging everyone else off who has an opinion which isn't SI R GREAT ok we have differing opinions and you ask us not to slag everyone has has a differing opinion to us, so how about you take your own advice and retract your fanboy comments. As I for one would consider this mindless slagging. This is my last word on the subject, I don't want to cause an arguement, I just want people to realise the irony in asking us to stop slagging people off based on a differing view point, in a post that uses potentially offensive langauge about a group of people with a differing view point. As I say, I dont want I have tried to construct this in a polite manner, and won't be commenting further. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCfan Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 I'll close this thread before it degenerates any further Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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