[HELP] Inverted WB 3-4-3 Diamond

[EREBUS]

Hello! I'm a returning player from FM 2012.
I've been playing PES since it's Winning Eleven series and throughout the years I have developed a formation and tactics that fit my playing style.
It's a tactic I came up with, which was heavily influenced by Guardiola.
The tactic I use is a in-between of Guardiola's MAN City tactics & Thiago Motta's 2-7-2 tactics.
Please help me recreate this tactic please as I am out of touch since FM12

My formation at first glance: A normal 4-3-3 system, however...

On the ball: Team plays high possession and high up the pitch same as Guardiola's team.
1) One of the two CB pushes up, joining the three MF & becomes a ball playing DMF, while the other CB stays behind similar to a Libero (Sweeper) role in a Catenaccio.

2) Both WB/FB become inverted so they tuck inside making the formation look like a 3 in the back with a DMF just in front. However, if the ball is on the WB side of play that wingback pushes high joining the winger.

3) One of the three MF becomes a AMC with two CMF behind, while the aforementioned CB becomes a DMF behind the two CMF.

4) The two wingers are extremely wide and the CF plays deeper role carrying off opposing CB.

So in possession it looks like a 3-4-3 diamond, but when one of the inverted WB/FBjoins the attack it becomes more of a 2-4-4 diamond.
 

Out of possession :
Extremely high pressing especially during opposition long-balls. If failing to win the ball back within seconds the formation resets to a 4-3-3

Is there anything I need to mention more? Please let me know

[Amarante]

very very interesting. Hmm i will fire up a save and test this out and see if i can replicate the movement you desire in this. It's easier to create the flat 343 than the 343 diamond shape from the 4-3-3. I don't even think this is possible with the current me. Of the top of my head, this would be very situational and will often occur at set points in the match. 

[EREBUS]

6 hours ago, Amarante said:

very very interesting. Hmm i will fire up a save and test this out and see if i can replicate the movement you desire in this. It's easier to create the flat 343 than the 343 diamond shape from the 4-3-3. I don't even think this is possible with the current me. Of the top of my head, this would be very situational and will often occur at set points in the match. 

Wow thank you very much!
I believe playing wide and moving the ball from one side of the wing to the other through short quick passes is best.

But gawd I've been away so for long I dont remember much and looks like a lot has been added since fm12

[kpsia518]

 

 

[EREBUS]

7 hours ago, kpsia518 said:

 

whats this?

 

[WhyMe]

I have to admit that if you could get this to work then it would be awesome but I am pretty certain that the movement that you want from the centre backs is currently completely impossible.  The rest of it should be possible with the right roles and duties though so you could still have a lot of fun with it.

[Experienced Defender]

4 hours ago, WhyMe said:

I am pretty certain that the movement that you want from the centre backs is currently completely impossible

I think it can only be achieved with a libero, but I think the role is only available in formations that use a 3/5-man back-line (though I'm not 100% sure as I haven't used libero so far in FM19).

[EREBUS]

If it's not possible maybe a 3 in the back formation could work

[Rashidi]

With a back 4, play with a halfback, wb(S) with overlap, assign the forward players to sit narrower or use an IF(S)

With a back 5, set the central dc to a libero, in midfield do not use playmakers. WB(S) set to overlap to exaggerate their mentality but also force the initial positioning to be higher, wide AMs set to sit narrower. Preferably using players who have cut inside.

This can be achieved on FM19 using both methods.

Potential issues:

If you use a Libero in a back 5 configuration you are essentially playing a 5221, here you want the Libero to be on attack so he pushes up high. I did this on FM19 with 3 teams and its a sweet system. However the demands placed on the 2 CDs are high, since the forward moving libero can sometimes yield spaces for OTT balls to exploit

If you use a DM, you will probably need to play him on support, here you could be tempted to use a double Mez combination in midfield, which is what I would do or at least one Mez and another customised CM(S) which is something I did in FM18. Here you don't need to use a HB to force the WBs up higher, just tell em to overlap, but play them on support. Overlap here is simply for the higher mentality.

The inverted 343 is quite some fun to play.

If you want more aggressive play by the WB(S) in both systems, just play them on attack duty, it does get harder defending with a flat 4 because of the aggressive wb play

 

If you want DL to move into the DM slot then you will be playing both of them as IWB, without the overlap, which makes it play the way you want. 

 

 

[westy8chimp]

13 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

here you want the Libero to be on attack so he pushes up high.

As a tactical asset I managed to get things working with a libero. But focusing solely on that role and how I expect it to play I was disappointed. 'high' is all relative... High for a cb, yes. But high up the pitch? Not really... And I'm sure the description on attack duty mentions scoring opportunities...so at a minimum I would expect the role to allow the player to get in pockets of space 25 yards out for a shot. 

I never saw the player get beyond...what cleon aptly termed... The invisible Wall. Mostly the edge of the centre circle in the opponents half. 

My Lib had perfect ppms and good attributes... And I have a fairly good grasp of not blocking the running lane... So there was no DM or AM in the way... Plenty of mundane support dutys around that wouldnt move the ball forward too quickly etc. The setup really was built around giving perfect conditions for the Libero. 

[Rashidi]

1 minute ago, westy8chimp said:

As a tactical asset I managed to get things working with a libero. But focusing solely on that role and how I expect it to play I was disappointed. 'high' is all relative... High for a cb, yes. But high up the pitch? Not really... And I'm sure the description on attack duty mentions scoring opportunities...so at a minimum I would expect the role to allow the player to get in pockets of space 25 yards out for a shot. 

I never saw the player get beyond...what cleon aptly termed... The invisible Wall. Mostly the edge of the centre circle in the opponents half. 

My Lib had perfect ppms and good attributes... And I have a fairly good grasp of not blocking the running lane... So there was no DM or AM in the way... Plenty of mundane support dutys around that wouldnt move the ball forward too quickly etc. The setup really was built around giving perfect conditions for the Libero. 

I have got the libero to score from long shots and play the killer pass from inside the opponents half. To get them to play like that you can't have playmakers in front of them.

[Rashidi]

6 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

I never saw the player get beyond...what cleon aptly termed... The invisible Wall. Mostly the edge of the centre circle in the opponents half. 

34 is my Libero and he is about to move towards the penalty area, he doesn't go in but he definitely gets within shooting range.

[westy8chimp]

3 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

I have got the libero to score from long shots and play the killer pass from inside the opponents half. To get them to play like that you can't have playmakers in front of them.

I'll have another go... I'm going on memory... Think I had cb-d either side... And wb-s either side... Car-s, cm-s in front, with dlf-s and cf-a in attack. Instructions would have been bland like balanced mentality, standard dline and loe... Mixed passing and normal tempo... Probably work ball into the box to encourage patience (to allow for the libero to keep up with play) 

The player was Harry Maguire

[westy8chimp]

2 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

34 is my Libero and he is about to move towards the penalty area, he doesn't go in but he definitely gets within shooting range.

Transitions like that are interesting... That's kind of where I saw the limit reached. Now in that still... Its a perfect position... In space with good passing lanes in the channel... But say he received it and slides in the wb #17... Who being more advanced draws the dline back towards goal... I'd expect the Lib to then find a pocket on the edge of the D... That's what I didn't see. But maybe work ball into box and so many support dutys.. I didn't push the opponent dline back far enough. I'll have a go with a more progressive tactic

[Rashidi]

The only way I managed to get the libero in scoring positions is down to player type and control. With poor sides like Stalybridge, mostly assists generator, but from the ones I tried with porto and even Arsenal ;-) ( Ozil is a surprisingly good Libero) its definitely one of the most interesting roles to perfect in FM19, systems like what the OP is going for cannot be attempted by poor sides they will just get torn apart.

 

[Draktor]

12 hours ago, Rashidi said:

The only way I managed to get the libero in scoring positions is down to player type and control. With poor sides like Stalybridge, mostly assists generator, but from the ones I tried with porto and even Arsenal ;-) ( Ozil is a surprisingly good Libero) its definitely one of the most interesting roles to perfect in FM19, systems like what the OP is going for cannot be attempted by poor sides they will just get torn apart.

 

tips hat

Where did you get that idea from @Rashidi? 

[EREBUS]

HOLY MOLY!