help and advice about a direct tactic

[chestermike]

Hi guys, I would appreciate some advice on how to get a direct 4-4-2 working properly. I'm having some success but nowhere near what I should.

Firstly, a background of my save so far. I'm playing serie d in Italy, started with rieti in section e. Lasted 2 and a half years before the sack. First season I was expected to finish 17th, finished 12th.

. 2nd season expected 12th, finished 3rd. 3rd season expected 3rd, was 12th after 20 games and got sacked. During the summer I got the job as poggibonsi manager in section I, just promoted from excellenza the squad was poor, but made a few signings and finished 13th (expected 18th), but won the relegation playoff and stayed up. Unbelievably, next year I was predicted 6th, however I lost the first 5 league games, and despite winning 3 cup games and getting 7 points from the next 3 games I was sacked again. By November I landed the grottaglie job in section h, they had won the first

4 games but then not won in 11, sacking their manager. Expected to finish 8th, I took over with them in 13th and the relegation playoff zone. I had a really decent start and was up to 9th after taking 12 points in 6 unbeaten games, but then crashed and ended up 14th and lost the relegation playoff. I resigned even though they wanted to keep me, as excellenza is unplayable. Had to wait until December for a new job, a team bottom of section a, the recently promoted sestri levante in group a. First 7 games I have won 2, drew 1 and lost 4, but signed 16 new players and the squad is good enough now.

Right, onto the tactics I am using. Set to 4-4-2, standard, structured. TI's are more direct passing, float crosses, shoot on sight, push higher up, play narrower, stick to positions, close down more, higher tempo, be more disciplined. For roles, gk set to gk defend, cbs both set to limited defender on defend, both full backs set to full back support, rcm set to cm defend, lcm to cm support, both wingers set to winger attack, right forward to target man support, left forward to advanced forward attack.

The successes of the tactic, I score a lot of goals and create a lot of clear cut chances, should take more of them but poor quality players are doing this. I get lots of chances close in. The wingers get a lot of chances too. The minuses, as expected I rarely get more than 45% possession, the central midfielders never get decent average ratings, and I concede a lot of penalties and a lot of goals from crosses.

So, any help would be appreciated. How do I get my cms more involved with this tactic, if possible? How do I defend better? Is there a way I can dominate games more and maybe get up to 50% possession? Thanks.

[chestermike]

Thanks for the help guys....

[HUNT3R]

I think you haven't had replies as you didn't put any effort into your post. From the limited info, it doesn't seem like you've made any attempt to understand your own tactic's failings either. Your background is longer than the actual info! You need to understand, that you're the one watching the matches. You're the one who is seeing the tactic in action.

That said, have you made any attempts to watch games and see why your CMs aren't that involved? I have a sneaky suspicion that it'll (as well as why your possession is fairly low) be quite clear if you do. Also not sure what you're expecting of the CMs to be getting very high avg ratings?

[Marsupian]

From the roles and instructions it looks like you are trying to play a wide game and get crosses and long balls to your target man. If that is the case playing narrow makes absolutely no sense at all. Also you give your players very limited creative freedom and tell them to play a high tempo game. This gives them little time to make a decision and not a lot of options so you are probably giving possession away a lot on aimless long balls or rushed balls to your target man. Maybe give your players more time to pick an option by removing the higher tempo instruction and designate a player for your back line to pass to (they are all told to keep things simple so give them a plan). Making your supporting midfielder a designated playmaker who can try to launch the wingers or advanced forward might help. Lastly you are trying to create goals using attacking wingers and an advanced forward who are all looking to exploit space in behind the defense but you are putting up a high block and press the opponent in their half which reduces space behind the opponent. With this setup of roles a deep and wide counter attacking tactic makes more sense to me, it's hard to play direct long balls if there is no space to play them in. When you push your opponent into their own half you generally need more creativity and technical skill to create goals instead of pace and a physical presence. Also if you are trying to create from wide areas it's generally a good idea to get your fullbacks more involved. With a support duty they will just sit back and recycle possession with the occasional cross from deep (unless they have the ppm "gets forward whenever possible).

[chestermike]

Well hunter, I have said every single instruction, so really couldn't be more thorough with what I do. I could maybe have said more about the failings of the tactic. Yes I go back an analyse what I think is going wrong, and I have made some improvements on my own. I put the left cm onto a ball winning midfielder on support after signing a cm with tackling 11, work rate teamwork and aggression of 15/16, and stamina of 18, quite a find. He averages 7.7 in that role, a check of the match stats shows he makes 15-25 tackles per match, and watching it closely he is a beast for 2nd balls too, making loads of interceptions, hence the high ratings.

Back to the problems, my right cm is set on cm defend, and my full backs on full back support, and I think this is my main problem as I concede a lot of crosses and the cm defend never ave rates more than 6.5 so how can I change his role to make him more effective? The ball winning midfielder seems to be everywhere, checking the match analysis he is making tackles around both boxes as well as midfield, so how do u get the other one to make lots and lots of tackles but stay back at the same time?

As for full backs, analysing them is difficult. On the player stats they seem to be doing what I want, they make 3 or 4 tackles per game, make a few interceptions, lots of decent passes etc. The player movement map shows me their average position is a tad higher than the cb's and they are tucked in, which is what I wanted. But i concede loads of goals from crosses, and watching the highlights it seems to be that my full backs are too easily beaten, they just get outran and the opposition winger has a free cross, and the opposite full back isn't covering so its often 2 vs 2 on the cross. I think this is the serious weakness in the tactic and would love some advice

[chestermike]

Thanks for that marsupian, a very interesting and thought provoking read, thanks for making the effort.

I am not trying for a wide game with crosses into the target man, I'm looking for the defence to bypass the midfield by giving it long to the target man, and I want the other striker and wingers close to him for the knock downs, then get at them. That aspect seems to work a treat, see what I said about my wingers scoring lots etc.

You make an interesting point about the tempo though, if I want to play this direct attacking style and score as many as I do, BUT get over 50% possession too, maybe I need to take high tempo off, so my cms and defenders do 2 or 3 passes before playing I into the target man? What PI's would achieve this I wonder? Maybe a tinker in the friendlies is in order.

You also got me thinking about the full backs again with your last few sentences. Maybe the support duty isn't right for this tactic and that's where I am going wrong. I'm tempted to try defend mentality with the pi gets forward whenever possible. Thinking about it though, do they conflict? Will soon find out haha. The other thing I was tempted to try is changing them onto limited full backs, and making them mark tightly. Any thoughts would be very appreciated.

[Jean0987654321]

It seems to me that you want two different styles at the same time.

1) You want a "kick n rush" system

2) You want a possession game

But now you want to use LFBs that will only hoof the ball and nothing else on the attack. I think you should stick to one game and that is a "kick n rush" game

[Overmars]

If you select high tempo, shoot on sight, and direct passing then you should forget about possession statistics. Like others have said, don't tell your players to rush everything and then get disappointed when they don't slow it down and keep the ball.

Have you tried a shadow striker or AM(a) playing behind a target man instead of AF/TM? The shadow striker may be particularly lethal running forward after your target man knocks down a long ball.

[johnnyyakuza78]

Yeah your post was quite hard to read and didn't lay out your roles in a clear way which probably made you get less replies.

Essentially your tactic is doing everything you expected it to do. The inherent weaknesses of a 442 with wingers are showing up and thats the be expected to. You cannot expect to get high possession stats from a direct 442, so don't worry about them.

As for losing goals to pens. Might be due to lack of mental stats from your defenders, or you pushing to high up against fast attackers so your defenders need to run back and do something stupid. Adjust your d-line based on the opposition and the situation.

Goals from crosses are usually because wingers aren't closed down. Your wingers add nothing defensively so your fullback is on his own. If you see you are up against good wingers or attacking fullbacks, consider using defensive wingers instead

[chestermike]

Thanks guys, appreciate the responses. I have read them all and settled on a few changes now, I'm in the next pre season so gonna manage the friendlies and see whether what I want is happening.

Jean, I don't want to play kick and rush and possession. What I want is for my team to play into a target man (into his feet will be fine) and get close and play off him. That part I seem to have gotten right. Like I said, I score lots of goals, and the wingers get double figures too, that's exactly what I am after, 3 bodies getting on the flick ons and supporting when the tm holds it up, and the cms fighting for the 2nd balls. Its the cms getting involved and the defending which I qm struggling with.

Overmars, thanks for this mate, coupled with marsupials post I have decided I have told my players to rush it too much, so now I have taken off high tempo and shoot on sight. The effect I want from this change is to get 48-50% possession instead of the 40-45% I get most games now.

Johnny, thanks again mate, thanks to your advice and marsupials I have taken push up off, and I am trying the full backs set to defend with the pi mark tighter on. That should hopefully give opposition wingers less space, and mean my defence is not outstripped and has to give away penalties.

[johnnyyakuza78]

I think getting CMs involved in second balls is a real challenge in a 442, and I'd argue that usually isn't their role, as its best if they hold position and defend the centre rather than running up and down the pitch. You could of course turn one into a B2B and have him getting forward. However that usually leaves you really exposed at times. If I was going to do that I'd drop one of my wingers to support at least.

[chestermike]

Just played the first friendly vs wacka Innsbruck with my new tactic. I am optimistic with the 1-1 draw I got, my team seem to be playing a lot more like how I want now. There are still some negatives but lets see if I can describe whats gone on.

I am still playing 4-4-2. Cbs set to limited defender defend. Full backs now to full back defend with pi of mark tighter, and before the game I told them who to mark too. RCM set to deep lying playmaker defend and LCM to ball winning midfielder support. Both wide players now on wide midfielders attack. And the forwards to target man support coupled with advanced forward attack. I also put the pi stay back on my deep lying playmaker.

TI wise I have now put on direct passing, play narrower and float crosses only. I was tempted by mark tighter too and maybe drop deeper, but will experiment with those in later friendlies, as I feel if I change too much in 1 game I wont be able to tell what works and what doesn't.

Onto the match, my opponents are much much bigger than little old me, so I am massive underdogs. A bumper crowd of nearly 1000 is in thanks to their much higher rep than me. I've gotten to 40 minutes before a highlight shows, and its of them scoring, however its one of those rebound off a free kick things that's down to luck and now tactics. Get to ht 0-1 but with 47% possession, and 2 shots to their 4. No ccc's yet, which is strange as I would call an unopposed tap in from 5 yards a ccc, oh well.

Second half starts and I equalise straight away, and a goal I am after. The cb picks it up, takes a touch and plays it into the tm. He holds it up and lays it off to my right wide mid, who takes on the full back and floats in a cross to the back post where my 6ft4 and jumping of 12 left wide mid heads it in.

Its a game of few highlights but attacking wise my changes haven't really had a negative effect, still attacking in the way I want, into the tm and play off him. Defending looks a lot better, I am used to seeing many highlights of unopposed crosses and ccc's against me and I isn't happening here. Full time 1-1, cracking since they are miles better than me.

I check the match stats to see if the tactical changed did what I wanted. Finished with 46% possession, so better! I had 6 shots to their 7 so better defensively, maybe my shot count is a bit low and that is what I am sacrificing by changing the winger roles? A quick check of the player stats and I am a happy bunny with what I see. My ball winning midfielder has made 17 tackles and 9 interceptions, getting a rating of 7.9, and the deep lying playmaker has made 4 tackles, 5 interceptions and made 48 out of 52 passes, including 1 key one to rate at 6.9, much better. My defenders missed 1 tackle all game between them which seems rediculously high for such low quality players, but I am happy, and I won 68% of the areal battles, which I should since I only have 1 player under 6 foot haha.

I click continue then look around the match analysis. I hope I haven't sacrificed my attack and this is down to strong opponents, but all but 2 of my shots were from outside the box. I check the crosses in and a lot were blocked, is this cos my wide midfielders are deeper than my old winger role so they don't have a lot of space? On the plus side the only shot they had inside my box was their goal, so the defending seems a lot better.

Noticed one last little negative too. I know its first friendly and no one is match fit etc, but my wide players are shattered, one finishing on 20% condition and the other on 22%. I didn't notice any knocks. The rest of my team have finished on about 45-60% condition. Is this expected because of my new tactics and roles or is this purely a conditioning issue and a coincidence???

Thanks for reading and hopefully replying.

[HUNT3R]

Now that's what a post should look like.

I wouldn't worry about possession. Your Limited Defenders will play it long as soon as they get it (it's their job/role) and having a TM and direct passing further encourages that. It's also why your midfielders aren't that involved in general play.

Don't judge friendlies on results, but rather whether your players were doing what you want them to. The AI team will not care about the result either, so the players will be taking it easier and they won't fight for the win too much.

[johnnyyakuza78]

Its hard to really take much from friendlies to be honest.

I will say that BWM-S and a DLP-D isn't the greatest pair up in a 442. In fact I would basically never use a BWM in a 2 man mid, he leaves position too much.

I have played with limited defenders and limited full backs and I can honestly say it makes your play so totally one dimensional that your results will end up being really patchy. It creates huge gaps in your side and so many wayward passing I almost cant justify their existence in the game. I'd use them very situationally where you are desperately trying to hold onto a lead etc.

Honestly I've tried the whole Route 1 uber direct football route and it is very limiting to what you can achieve in the game in my opinion.

[chestermike]

Its a different challenge for me johnny. I could use my 4-2-3-1 from my hugely successful Chester and Annan saves, but I know that tactic works. I've never tried a direct tactic before, hence the challenge it is giving me. All these people that moan that the game is too easy and/or gets boring should try this.

Again, I don't want route 1/kick and rush, dont know how many times I need to say this. There is a ti for route 1, never gonna touch it. By direct passing I want my players to get it forward early and not do too many backwards and sideways passes in our own half. Typical non league really. The problem was the rushed passed forward, which I seem to have solved thanks to the excellent advice on here. I know its only 1 friendly so far and I cant read too much into it, and I might even have sacrificed some goals scored with the changes I have made, but I feel like I am improving now. Thanks again guys.

[chestermike]

Hunter, would you change limited defnders to central defenders then? The reason why I went for limited for the first time in my fm life is because most players i sign have a preferred role of limited, and when you look at their attributes that is exactly what they are, limited.

[chestermike]

Ps my next friendly is against serie a team bologne!!! I might manage the under 20s friendlies to further analyse my tactic.

[chestermike]

The ball winning midfielder is my highest rated player every match unless someone knocks in a brace or more mate, dont think I can take him off that. Never seen one player win so many tackles in a match.

[HUNT3R]

Hunter, would you change limited defnders to central defenders then? The reason why I went for limited for the first time in my fm life is because most players i sign have a preferred role of limited, and when you look at their attributes that is exactly what they are, limited.

I cannot tell you what to do. I'd recommend you read the role descriptions and see if it is what you want.

[johnnyyakuza78]

Its a different challenge for me johnny. I could use my 4-2-3-1 from my hugely successful Chester and Annan saves, but I know that tactic works. I've never tried a direct tactic before, hence the challenge it is giving me. All these people that moan that the game is too easy and/or gets boring should try this.

Again, I don't want route 1/kick and rush, dont know how many times I need to say this. There is a ti for route 1, never gonna touch it. By direct passing I want my players to get it forward early and not do too many backwards and sideways passes in our own half. Typical non league really. The problem was the rushed passed forward, which I seem to have solved thanks to the excellent advice on here. I know its only 1 friendly so far and I cant read too much into it, and I might even have sacrificed some goals scored with the changes I have made, but I feel like I am improving now. Thanks again guys.

Sure but everything except the Route 1 button is set up for Kick and Rush. The Route 1 button will just extend the length of passes further than they already are. Having a Target man and limited defenders makes for a very kick and rush style.

[johnnyyakuza78]

The ball winning midfielder is my highest rated player every match unless someone knocks in a brace or more mate, dont think I can take him off that. Never seen one player win so many tackles in a match.

And sure thats fine, you just need to accept that what you gain in one area you lose in another, he will leave you quite exposed defensively and your DLP will end up doing mostly defensive work to make up for his lack of discipline.

If you can accept than then keep doing, you'll just need to do other things to compensate for him

[chestermike]

Hunter, I know you cant tell me what to do. I am asking what you would do? Ta.

[chestermike]

Cheers johnny. Yeah I can accept the shortcomings the ball winner leaves. I need to get back on the match analysis and check if he is picking up 2nd balls off the target man which is what I want. The deep lying playmaker is covering, but is there anything I can try to get him to make even more tackles and interceptions? I'm not touching his passing, 48/52 is spot on.

[HUNT3R]

Hunter, I know you cant tell me what to do. I am asking what you would do? Ta.

If it was me, I'd see what I had to work with (player-wise) and then decide what my plan would be. You already have a plan, so just see if a Limited Defender fits that plan.

[chestermike]

Just played bologne. Lost 0-2, which I don't think is that bad considering its the equivalent of Solihull playing against Aston villa. I've noted a couple of things tactics wise. I tried my 2nd choice ball winner, he has aggression, work rate, teamwork, fitness etc of 10-11, he only got through 8 tackles, and most are defensive. I think my first choice ball winner is a special player.

Wingers wise, my right winger tried 10 crosses, but my left one only tried 3, and my target man even tried 4. Is this because my target man is on the right side, so the right wingers gets more ball???

[johnnyyakuza78]

Just played bologne. Lost 0-2, which I don't think is that bad considering its the equivalent of Solihull playing against Aston villa. I've noted a couple of things tactics wise. I tried my 2nd choice ball winner, he has aggression, work rate, teamwork, fitness etc of 10-11, he only got through 8 tackles, and most are defensive. I think my first choice ball winner is a special player.

Wingers wise, my right winger tried 10 crosses, but my left one only tried 3, and my target man even tried 4. Is this because my target man is on the right side, so the right wingers gets more ball???

I think these are things only you can tell from watching the matches. Your ball winner will probably be having to defend a bit more because you are the worse side.

[chestermike]

Probably true yes, but I wonder why my first choice ball winner is all over the pitch, yet my back up only seems to tackle around his own box? Didn't change a thing in the tactic. The other thing I notice looking back is my defenders did very very few pass attempts, like 8 max in 45 minutes. Bit low? Might be down to playing bologne, they had 61% possession. Next friendly is against a lower side so lets see what happens there, and it was an experimental line up with back up players and trialists I might sign.

[johnnyyakuza78]

yeah its probably because he was being pegged back by better opposition

[chestermike]

Well that was awful, sacked again after a record of w5, d2, l8. I was expected to finish 6th and I was 12th at the time. I'm not gonna give up, but I am weighing up whether to keep this go going and apply for jobs, or whether to restart and go as rieti or similar again. Again I could go easy and use my 4-2-3-1 from my Chester and Annan games, but I really want the challenge of designing a new tactic.

I analysed the tactic used a lot in that half a season. I was regularly getting over 50% possession and was getting a lot of shots and cccs, so the tactic seemed to work, I was dominating games. However I was missing all the cccs and the opponents every shot seemed to go in. I tried to analyse tactically why,maybe I had too many forward and it made it too easy for the opposition to score? Dunno yet, will have a good look tonight before deciding what to do.

[johnnyyakuza78]

what was your formation and TIs at the end. list it out

[chestermike]

Gk - gk defend

LB and RB - full back defend

CB's - central defender defend

LCM - deep lying playmaker defend

RCM - ball winning midfielder support

LM and RM - wide midfielder attack

RFW - target man support

LFW - advanced forward attack

TI's set to direct passing, play narrower, drop deeper, mark tighter, get stuck in, float crosses.

When I was sacked, my advanced forward had got 10 goals, target man 3, lw 4, rw 3 and 1 goal from my ball winner and 3 from cbs off corners. A couple of back up players scored a couple too. My target man averaged 7.17 and had 7 assists, the advanced forward 7.50, and the ball winning midfielder 7.3ish. The rest were all averaging 6.8 or lower.

After looking through the match analysis screens for a few games, it seems that all my crosses from deep end up blocked, however if I get to the byline they are very effective. The ball winning midfielder continues to win tackles all over the pitch, where as the deep lying playmaker sits back. All my ccc's seem to be in the 6 yard box after crosses, I don't seem to create 1-on-1 goals very often. A few shots from 20-30 yards have gone in.

Defensively, my defenders dont seem to be intercepting as much as my midfielders. Strange one, what am I doing wrong in my tactics to cause this? They rarely miss tackles and I am very good in the air, often winning 60%+ and often over 70%. I do sign tall players deliberately though, like I said my first choice team had only 1 player under 6 foot, and he was the left winger. My first choice strikers are 6"4 and 6"5 respectively, and my cbs are both 6"3, and one of my cms is 6"7.

I'm going to spend a lot of time tonight replaying the oppositions goals, how come I cant score with 20 shots and they have 2 and they both go in? They must be getting into better positions than me, I wanna work out how to stop them tactically.

[chestermike]

Ps one of my centre backs kept missing hoofs and letting the opposition in. Would this be due to tactics, or the fact his concentration is 3??? Or both.

[johnnyyakuza78]

what mentality are you using?

[chestermike]

Standard mentality with structured shape. If I was on top I would change to control or attacking. If holding onto a lead would go defensive or contain with waste time.

[baddragon62]

I have played with limited defenders and limited full backs and I can honestly say it makes your play so totally one dimensional that your results will end up being really patchy. It creates huge gaps in your side and so many wayward passing I almost cant justify their existence in the game.

Concur with this - Playing ion English Level 9 I found that LD were causing me massive problems - it all change around when I made the CD(D) and added clear to flanks TI. Suddenly the balls were being directed to the space where my wings were and even if the clearance was inacurate, the wingers were there to close down and contest. It also stopped the kicks across the middle of the park.

[chestermike]

Well I got a job as citti de something manager almost immediately. Predicted to finish 2nd and board expecting a title challenge from group d, they have some amazing players but the squad needs some serious rebalancing. Only 18 players for a start (you name 9 subs in Italy), and only 2 under 18s, 3 under 18s and 5 under 20s I need young players in immediately.

Tactics wise is going to have to be different until I sign a few, as I haven't got the physical tall players in this squad, in fact I have no one capable of playing target man at all. I decide I'm trying to be too clever with such poor players so I keep it simpler.

Gk - gk defend

Lb & rb - full back support

Cb's - central defender defend

Rcm - central mid defend

Lcm - central mid attack

Rm & lm - wide mid attack

Rfw - deep lying forward support

Lfw - advanced forward attack

Starting with control and fluid. TI's include drop deeper, get stuck in, prevent short gk distribution, basically so my team tries to press as much as possible, and no PI's selected yet.

I arrange son under 20 friendlies as its 9 days until my first match, and I take control. I want to spend a couple of hours analysing the tactic and getting the best out of it, especially getting tighter at the back. First one against a team from excelenza, embarrasing. Lost 0-2, I was playing a few trialists etc but still....

Analysing the tactics, the simpler roles in midfield have made a huge difference, no where near as many tackles as the dlp defend/bwm support pairing. However they got through tonnes of passes, over 100 each, and my full back had nearly 90 each. A click on the passing map shows me they are still going direct, which I what I am after, but there are more sideways passes now than before.

I've not used a deep lying forward much so I investigate this role. 43 pass attempts, 30 successful, so not the best game. He didn't win a header, make a key pass or have a shot all game. So totally different to what I am used to with a target man. A click on the position map shows his average position to be about as far forward as my attacking mids, so basically this 4-4-2 looks more like a 2-3-4-1. The dlf passing map also shows a lot of passes back to the full backs, and a load of attempts to play in the af.

Thinking of altering things for the 2nd friendly but will have a good think.

[johnnyyakuza78]

I think I'd be slightly warey of using wingers if there is nobody to cross it into. You could of course go for 'Drill Crosses' in that circumstance which might work better without tall players.

The other thing you could do is not play with wingers, but with widemids who come inside, or at least one of them.

I'd also be worried about 3 attack duties in midfield, you'll need more support duties I feel or you'll get creamed.

[chestermike]

2nd friendly vs my under 18's. I have signed an amazing rm since the last one on loan from Lazio, and I have signed an acm/cm on a free who looks quality too, 12-14 in all the right places.

I decide that the tactics only need a little tweak, I need to be more penetrative in attack and more solid defensively, but I did get 62% possession last match so dont want to ruin that. I take the prevent short gk dist ti off, and tell my fbs to man mark their wingers. I hope this will make my mid sit a bit further back and give the dlf more space, whilst also cutting off these infernal crosses I keep conceding from, no matter what tactic I use.

Well what a difference, against poor opposition I know, but a 7-2 win is always good for the soul. The advanced forward got 3, dlf 1 and 4 assists, and my new amc 2, with the lm getting the spare one.

Tactical analysis then.....well......my dlf was everywhere, 66 pass attempts, 53 completed, 6 key. A check on his pass map shows he is playing a lot of balls into the af, great! The midfield was the same as last match with lots of passes and not many tackles, however the average position map made for pleasing reading, as the 3 midfielders are now deeper than the dlf, giving me a better shape, my formation on this map now looks like 2-3-3-1-1.

I had both of these games on comm only, but watch back the 4 goals I have conceded now, and yep same old poo. 1 hoof over the top unexplainably missed by my cb, and 3 crosses to unmarked strikers. Is this just a byproduct of poor players with poor concentration or is this tactical?

[johnnyyakuza78]

It probably has something to do with playing poor opposition and getting hit on the counter, pretty much the one thing everyone complains about here.

I dunno when you concede those goals but could it be that your players are switching off due to you already winning?

Control is a reasonably attacking mentality too so will leave you a little exposed at the back, especially with, as I said, almost your entire midfield on attack duty!

[chestermike]

Right I tell my ass man to take the remaining friendly and prepare for my first league game. I'm gonna leave the tactics as they were for the 7-2 win. 3 of my young players are injured so this is gonna be a patched up team with youth players playing out of position. I have signed an 18 yo cb with lots of potential, as the squad only had 2 cbs and one is 34, yet my predecessor had 4 left backs in a squad of 18, genius!!!

My new rm is suspended from a match with Lazio, great, and all my strikers and injured, and only now I notice the squad has no left mids (I was using a trialist in the friendlies), so I line up with a left back at right back, a left back at left mid, and 2 youth wingers up front. I give myself no chance until I can make another 3-4 signings.

A quick check on the league, I am currently 12th. The team made a good start, winning 6, drawing 3 and losing 1, then the wheels fell off and 6 straight defeats got the old manager the sack and me the job. This match I against a team 1 place and 1 point below me, I am at home.

[chestermike]

In fact last minute thanks to johnny's advice i have just changed the wide midfielders to support. Cheers matey!!!

[chestermike]

Bad start, to be expected with 4 of my players on big red dots due to being completely out of position. 0-1 after 22 mins, a punt over the top, cb missed it, their player runs through and scored. Same old same old....

[chestermike]

Well that was unexpected.....a 2-1 win thanks to my genius amc I just signed. First one a direct ball into my dlf who lays it off to the amc. He takes a touch around a player and puts it in the bottom corner from 20/25 yards. Second one the lw went on a run and squared it to my amc. He dribbled past 2 players and slammed it into the top corner from 20/25 yards again. Magic!!!

On 85 mins I went contain, structured, be more disciplined and play narrower, and also put on time wasting and that other ti that appears with contain. They didn't get another shot away, which is pleasing. In fact when the ft whistle went the ball had just been cleared and my af would have been clean through.

Tactics wise....didnt concede from a cross, yay!!! 58% possession is good, however no cccs to me. The oppositions only ccc was their goal so defended a lot better. Ave position map shows virtually no difference from the 7-2, I would have though the wide mids might have dropped back a bit but they didn't. No crosses conceded so they might have done more defensively, and then got back up the pitch quick, so johnnys tactical advice might just have got my wide mids more involved in the game. Will analyse further now.

[chestermike]

I wish my screenshots wasn't broken, I could show you ok instead of describe to you.

[HUNT3R]

I'd suggest actually watching a game instead of just relying on stats.

[chestermike]

I do watch the game hunter. The only ones I didn't were those 2 under 20s friendlies as I was using them to scout trialists and to make sure team shape was good.

[HUNT3R]

That's my point. By far the easiest way to check whether your team shape is any good, is by watching it in action, something you didn't do in those two games, but still gauged on stats rather. You would have seen that putting 3 of the 4 midfielders on Attack duty is not a good idea.

[Overmars]

Gk - gk defend

Lb & rb - full back support

Cb's - central defender defend

Rcm - central mid defend

Lcm - central mid attack

Rm & lm - wide mid attack

Rfw - deep lying forward support

Lfw - advanced forward attack

Using a CM(a) when you only have two central midfielders seems like a bad idea from a stability standpoint. BBM(s) is probably the most aggressive you can be there without opening the middle of the park for your opponents.

[chestermike]

Seems like I have it cracked. Well, only 12 games into the season so maybe I am jumping the gun, but I am sitting 3rd. W6, D4, L2, and 2 of those non wins was down to going down to 10 men.d

I finished my part season with citti 9th, the record after I took over was w9, d3, l7, so the tactic was better, but not complete. That rw from Lazio was a beast, only scored once but ended up with 15 assists, the most in the league, not bad from 16 matches. Sadly he wont re-sign as Lazio want him with better players. To be fair so would I.

I spent a lot of time analysing the tactic. I didn't want to radically change things, I knew I was close. I decided to go back to the roles I posted above, with 3 attacking duties in midfield. My reasoning was to get more bodies forward to convert more of these chances. I am dominating games now with over 55% possession every game, over 60% a lot of the time, and its all direct attacking play, I often end up with 30 shots and 4 or more ccc's, but still lose.

The next tactical change comes with the ti's. I still have direct passing and get stuck in on, but take everything else off and have a think. I am after my back line winning it, getting it forward quickly and building from the opponents half, how do I achieve this? I decide higher tempo coupled with the direct passing would get the ball forward quickly, I am hoping that playing with no tm, with a dlp in its place will stop the aimless hoofs. I decide to put on close down more too, as I want my players scrapping for 2nd balls, and getting on the opponents touch.

That's it for ti's, keeping it simpler now. I have limited players so need to keep it simple.

My big revolution is pi's and oi's. I took my time and looked at all the players and gave them pi's individually to play to their strengths. For example if I play my young Egyptian midfield, he will play as a midfielder with attack role, however my on loan Romanian midfielder will play as an advanced playmaker support, and another back up will be a ball winning mid when he gets on. I wont go through them as ill be here all night, just gives you an idea of the depth I have gone to to get this spot on.

In an effort to stop all these crosses, I tell my full backs to man mark the opposition wingers, and for balance in the formation ask my wide midfielders to mark the full backs and if I am playing against 4-5-1 of any variety I ask my dlf to man mark the anchor man or variant. My other oi to stop these crosses is show the wingers onto their weaker foot.

I also spent time on my set pieces, getting the right people marked up and also getting the attacking better by putting someone on the keeper and someone for near post flick.

Like I said much better now. Watching the game, when I get the ball in my own half its booked into the dlf. Instead of doing the target man flick down, the dlf is taking it down and spreading passes all over the park and we are playing from there. Excellent.

Defence started poorly, but for the first time ever on this save i got 3 back to back clean sheets. The endless conceding from crosses has stopped, as is giving away loads of penalties.

I'll keep going and post an update asap.

[chestermike]

I forgot to say, when I am away I put my wide midfielders on support.