Pairs & Combinations Part 3: Strike Partnerships

[eple]

Any suggestions on how to line up these two lads?

Jordi PPM: Runs with ball through center, Rounds GK, Offside trap

Mesquida PPM: Runs with ball through center, Cuts inside

They are very similar, and up until now I have been playing them as advanced forwards next to Llorente (TM-s) with great success. Llorente is quickly coming towards the end of his career though and since I'm Ath. Bilbao I just can't go out and get a target man to replace him. It's looking very likely that my stirker options for the next years ahead will be quick dribblers.

My current line up

The one team instruction that is missing is 'offside trap'.

I have tried playing them together with Mesquida CF-s and Jordi as AF with mixed results. In one game Mesquida got 3 assists, all to Jordi, but in every other attempt it has not worked out. I'm guessing I might have to switch from high tempo and direct to a more slow approach?

[llama3]

Yeah they do not look much like a suited pair tbh. Thought about switching system and having Mesquida coming from the flanks?

[ZazzaZ]

Thanks again. Indeed It seems to be working fine. The comnination AM(A) + AP(S) + AF(A) with no given instructions to any of these player is working wonders.

[llama3]

Excellent. It should work well, its a well-balanced and cohesive combination. It spreads the creativity and movement around as play moves.

[eple]

Yeah they do not look much like a suited pair tbh. Thought about switching system and having Mesquida coming from the flanks?

I might have to resort to that. I don't like the inside forwards on the ME though. They just seems to waste every bit of decent possession by shooting from distance or poor angles. I suspect it's down to my preference of quick tempo and direct play though. I have been trying out Mesquida in the same role as Llorente with great effect, but I'm only doing so against the poorer teams where he can dominate physically. He has an AVR of 7.86 now with 10 goals and 6 assists in 13(6)games. I don't think it will work against better opposition but maybe with a bit of training he'll fit the system.

[Giantplaything]

Excellent thread and good read.

One small question about having 2 or more strikers. In terms of weaker foot, do you prefer to have the more advanced striker play on his weaker side or stronger side i.e. right footed playing FCL(weaker) or FCR(stronger)?

I've tried messing with this but never really got a conclusive improvment from either.

[llama3]

i tend to prefer them on their stronger side, but i am happy to change things around depending on how this makes them link up and play, and where the majority of chances are coming from

[UTT]

Looking for a bit of advice. Playing a striking pair with an AMC behind, how do I best set that up? The AMC in theory does the creative job, I'm finding my DLF/F9 getting awful ratings

[llama3]

What are you looking to achieve? What players? What do you currently have? What is going wrong?

[UTT]

What are you looking to achieve? What players? What do you currently have? What is going wrong?

Well, I'm trying to achieve any sort of fluid attacking.

The AMC is Matteo Kovacic and he kills it as an AP

Strikers are Milito, Palacio, Icardi, Belfodil, Longo and Rescaldani

Tried combinations of AF/P with a F9, DLF and CF(S) and both do very poorly. Looking isolated, not getting chances and not scoring. Can I do without a support duty on my striker if I have an AM? I don't have wingers (only wing backs) so I figure that the AF is important in stretching play wider

[llama3]

Well you seem to split duties fairly well. So it sounds more like a supply issue? Is everything going through Kovacic? How much contribution do you get from wide or from behind Kovacic?

[UTT]

Well you seem to split duties fairly well. So it sounds more like a supply issue? Is everything going through Kovacic? How much contribution do you get from wide or from behind Kovacic?

My wingbacks or M R/L (tried on defensive wingers and WM's) aren't supplying enough to be honest. They get to the byeline and pass it back across. My widest CB's aren't crossing from deep either, even with opportunities. I suspect this is a major problem as Kovacic does it all, or Guarin blasts it over from range. Struggling to get them crossing more

[llama3]

In that case, its a supply issue, not your forwards.

[col_utd]

I have to start by commending you llama3 on a fantastic series of posts, I have read everyone (several times) and have found them extremely useful, Thank you Sir. I would appreciate some advice please......

I play a fluid 4-4-1-1 formation with either attacking/control/counter depending on who I'm facing and where; and implement instructions both individually and overall accordingly. My only problem is that last season my forwards scored 14 goals between them, and 6 games into the new season things don't look to have changed. The AMC is generally AM/A and the Forward a CF/A however I'm uncertain if this is the issue, although I do understand the problem is supply from my midfield.

My midfield is set up with two CM's (one set to defend and the other support) and two WM each on support. I have two very capable wide midfielders and I place them on support to offer protection to my full backs who are set up on FB/A (you'll have to forgive my lack of info regarding PPM's as I cannot remember of the top of my head). I've been reluctant to change the WM's mentality from support due to the fact it'll leave my FB's slightly exposed, and also they have been doing a great job in their current roles by gaining high ratings and even scoring (someone has to as it sure ain't my strikers).

Therefore my questions is how do you suggest I achieve more supply within this set up.

[Britrock]

I have to start by commending you llama3 on a fantastic series of posts, I have read everyone (several times) and have found them extremely useful, Thank you Sir. I would appreciate some advice please......

I play a fluid 4-4-1-1 formation with either attacking/control/counter depending on who I'm facing and where; and implement instructions both individually and overall accordingly. My only problem is that last season my forwards scored 14 goals between them, and 6 games into the new season things don't look to have changed. The AMC is generally AM/A and the Forward a CF/A however I'm uncertain if this is the issue, although I do understand the problem is supply from my midfield.

My midfield is set up with two CM's (one set to defend and the other support) and two WM each on support. I have two very capable wide midfielders and I place them on support to offer protection to my full backs who are set up on FB/A (you'll have to forgive my lack of info regarding PPM's as I cannot remember of the top of my head). I've been reluctant to change the WM's mentality from support due to the fact it'll leave my FB's slightly exposed, and also they have been doing a great job in their current roles by gaining high ratings and even scoring (someone has to as it sure ain't my strikers).

Therefore my questions is how do you suggest I achieve more supply within this set up.

I'm not llama3, but...

With a lone forward on an attack duty, he's going to get isolated a lot from the play. I imagine if you look at the analysis of your games, he's probably playing significantly less passes than the rest of your team. You'd probably be better changing him to a CFs so he links up better with the rest of your team (especially with none of your midfield 4 on attack).

[llama3]

I'm not llama3, but...

With a lone forward on an attack duty, he's going to get isolated a lot from the play. I imagine if you look at the analysis of your games, he's probably playing significantly less passes than the rest of your team. You'd probably be better changing him to a CFs so he links up better with the rest of your team (especially with none of your midfield 4 on attack).

@col_utd - britrock's advice is good, to add to it though, I would switch a WM to an attack duty, and the FB behind onto a support duty (have the central mid closest to this full back the defend duty. It just makes the movement slightly less predictable and you have better link up play with the CF(S). Alternative if keep CF(A) & change AMC position to an AP(S) or AM(S).

[col_utd]

Sound advice gentlemen, Thank you. I shall implement and hopefully this will be the small change needed to get my forwards scoring.

[ZazzaZ]

Since your advice for my attacking setup on a 3-4-2-1 formation has been working wonders so far I'd dare asking some guidance more. Trying to set up a possession based, short passing & higher tempo 3-4-1-2 with controlling mentality and rigid fluidity. Defending is fine and so is ball possession but, alas, I still seem to have a lot to learn about forwards and advanced central midfielders. I cannot seem to get a proper shot on target even if playing with Fiorentina and my forwards are Gomez and Rossi. Hence, I praise again for your help Llama3...

[llama3]

So what precisely is the issue? Lots of shots, but missing loads? Is it lack of shots or good chances? Lack of possession?

The 3-4-1-2 is high dependent on the AMC & Wide Midfielders - so make sure the wide mids are getting on the ball, and offering options, and also your AMC is generally probably best as a Trequartista in this system to get the movement out wide and find more space. You could always get the AMC playing as a SS and have a striker playing as a Trequartista if they are suited.

[ZazzaZ]

So what precisely is the issue? Lots of shots, but missing loads? Is it lack of shots or good chances? Lack of possession?

The 3-4-1-2 is high dependent on the AMC & Wide Midfielders - so make sure the wide mids are getting on the ball, and offering options, and also your AMC is generally probably best as a Trequartista in this system to get the movement out wide and find more space. You could always get the AMC playing as a SS and have a striker playing as a Trequartista if they are suited.

Very few shots hence even fewer good chances, that's the issue. I'm playing with defensive wingers and so far they're doing a good job and are always well served. It looks to me more like the main forward, Mario Gomez, having problems positioning and /or freeing himself from marking since wingers are getting to end of the pitch ready to cross but don't. The real issue is the attaccking trio setup. Gomez set as AF(A) has been working wonders on a lone striker tactic I've been playing with, but what about the AMC and other striker ? AMC as Trequartista and 2nd forward set as DLF(A) ? I think I' ve tried that and didn't work but maybe I'm wrong.

[llama3]

DLF(S) would be more effective - 3 attack duties rarely works. With a Trequartista at AMC roaming around, your central midfield needs to provide some support. Seeing as your have 3 central defenders you can have 1 holding mid, and the other can maybe play like a box to box mid to provide support at both ends of the pitch.

[ZazzaZ]

DLF(S) would be more effective - 3 attack duties rarely works. With a Trequartista at AMC roaming around, your central midfield needs to provide some support. Seeing as your have 3 central defenders you can have 1 holding mid, and the other can maybe play like a box to box mid to provide support at both ends of the pitch.

Thanks, I'll try that. I'm actually playing with two defensive wingers with support duties on the sides, a DLP(S) and MC(D) in the middle. Hope it works. I'll let you know. Thanks again for your help.

[UTT]

ZazzaZ: I struggled for a while with a 3-4-1-2. I found that AP(A), AF(A) and DLF(S) is my best combination. Though I use wide midfielders with an Anchorman (D) and a DLP(D) in the middle of the park

[ZazzaZ]

ZazzaZ: I struggled for a while with a 3-4-1-2. I found that AP(A), AF(A) and DLF(S) is my best combination. Though I use wide midfielders with an Anchorman (D) and a DLP(D) in the middle of the park

The AP is indeed doing a better work than the Trequartista. Do you set specific player instruction to the attacking trio ?

[UTT]

The AP is indeed doing a better work than the Trequartista. Do you set specific player instruction to the attacking trio ?

I have shoot less for am AF(a) as I found he had a tendancy to panic and shoot from range when cornered. Apart from that, my whole side has no specific instructions. Now, I have to get my MC working properly

[ZazzaZ]

I have shoot less for am AF(a) as I found he had a tendancy to panic and shoot from range when cornered. Apart from that, my whole side has no specific instructions. Now, I have to get my MC working properly

If It can help you I'm getting some quite good results with an Anchorman(D) in the DM strata and a DLP(S) in the MC strata. Looks a lot like a cross with the Anchorman at the bottom, the DLP in the middle, defensive winger on the sides with supporting duties and the AP(A) on top of it.

[heisenburglar]

I play a similar system with

___________GK

__________L -A

_______DC____DC

CWB-A_________CWB_A

______CM-D__CM-S

__________AP-A

_______TM-S___AF_A

It's working ok, the TM is excellent in his role but he's scoring all the goals. The AF-A goes on lengthy goal droughts. I'm wondering if he's in the correct role. I play a short passing, high pressing game, with everyone else scoring except him!

[llama3]

what specific issues are you facing?

[Contexx]

It's working ok, the TM is excellent in his role but he's scoring all the goals. The AF-A goes on lengthy goal droughts. I'm wondering if he's in the correct role. I play a short passing, high pressing game, with everyone else scoring except him!

I use a similar set-up, though my deeper striker is a CF or Treq. I personally would not worry about it, especially as the AF tends to stretch the opposition's defense in a very awkward way that is not necessarily shown in the ME ratings or in terms of goals. As long as you're getting the results it's fine.

Alternatively, when you're playing a more controlled game and trying to break down the opposition, you might as well just give him a more supporting, creative duty (Complete forward is very nice as it gives him enough freedom to make runs if necessary). After all, when you're controlling, there isn't much space there for the striker to run into, and when he does it may often leave him isolated.

Now, when you're counterattacking, you AF can be your ace in the hole. The static, deep target man, coupled with the pacy AF who has the space to turn on the afterburners can be deadly.

[Jensefaen]

Playing a 4-2DM-3-1 with AML: IF-support, AMR- Winger attack, I am still unsure about the AM. Should he be AM-support or attack when playing an AF in front? AP-s seems to be not doing so much atm. But I am afraid that having three on attack and one single player on support will be bad balance-wise. Any thoughts guys?