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26 "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn"

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  1. Zaniolo also has that "shoots from distance" trait. As an attack duty inside forward he may end up taking too many shots. He may be better as an inverted winger or at least on support duty. a game where he has, say, four shots and no goals or assists will be punished by the ratings. He's so good that he should more than make up for it throughout a season
  2. Oh man, that 442 of theirs is such a pain to play against. I had them in the Champions League and the way they press high up the pitch and the speed with which their wingers cut inside can be crippling for this formation. What worked for me was cutting out PoD, increasing the tempo, and defending more narrow as it forces the likes of Consceciao to go outside and try to cross into my packed defense, as opposed to cutting inside and wreaking havoc. I also moved my LoE to "higher" and man-marked their wingbacks in order to prevent their insane overload up the flanks. One thing with 4231 deep is the "other" more conservative DMC really needs to be involved in the build-up, and all too often, if he's on "defend" duty, he simply won't be there to recycle possession or provide an outlet. I personally use DM on support as opposed to defend, and he actually ends up contributing a lot. When on "defend" or specifically told to hold position, the team ends up being too disjointed. In your case, you've got the Volante on attack, which is very risky and means he ends up being all over the place. While a DM on defend may shield the back four, it seems he's not quite available as a feasable part of what might be a very potent attack, starting from two deep and potentially creative midfielders. For this role, I generally use a more physical type of natural DLP - attributes and preferred moves that suit a playmaker, without the actual title. In my case I am lucky to have Nicholo Rovella, who is, apart from lacking areal ability, perfect for the role. When using a more of a "destroyer" or even "water-carrier" type, what often happens is he my attacks become too dull - especially if using the Volante on attack duty where he'll often get very high up the pitch. In a previous season I was using a "natural" anchorman with the DM(d) role, and he ended up being responsible for so many attacks breaking down through missing out on opportunities, playing the safely stupid and ultimately dangerous passes. At some point, you end up realizing that what you've got are not just two defensive midfielders in the center, but a huge advantage in terms of being afforded more chances to be adventurous.
  3. You could start a separate thread. I've used this formation for quite a few seasons as my team evolved, and the conflicts you're finding seem to be the opposite from my own interpretation. It could be player dependent, but when you're using a DLP alongside a Volante, you need to think about what happens when the ball is lost. With the wingback bombing forward, there is a high chance that you could be hit on the break with very little cover. The Volante is going to be all over the place, and particularly going "where the action is", while the DLP naturally gravitates towards the ball. I personally prefer to use a standard DMC(s), with abilities and traits of a playmaker - ie someone I would trust to create. Also, one of the compelling things about a deeper formation like this is the chance to provide a second or even third volley of attacks should things break down or your team starts camping against more organized opposition. Here, the wingback role on the right, coupled with the winger on support may not be as effective as a speedy and attack minded fullback on support. From my observation, withe wingback getting up the pitch too early you end up overly commited to that part of the pitch - it can open up space elsewhere or allow for some great crossing or overlapping opportunities, but since you're using a DLP and since you're that deep, why not play it more patiently, let the build-up happen in a more measured way, and chances are, the fullback will get involved just as the opposition defense is ready to break down. I'm very poor at uploading videos and graphics, but this happened to me in the CL final against Pochettino's ManCity. Of course they have a killer squad, and of course they had Milenkovic-Savic as a mezzala and Raheem "overpowered" Sterling on the flank. If I had a DLP on that side, Savic would have eaten him alive, and Sterling would have destroyed my wingback. Instead, my DMC with his "dictates tempo" preferred move still got involved in the build up, and my vanilla winger did his thing, and just as the attack was breaking down, the fullback made a run from deep to deliver the most conventional of crosses for the winning goal. Start a new thread because this formation doesn't get nearly as much love as it should on the forum, and the possibilities for space distribution are endless, regardless of the type of team you have.
  4. I've been using 4231 deep in it's various forms for the past few iterations of FM, to the point that to me, the setup for 4231 or even 433 looks a bit odd at first. The SV is by far my favorite role in the game, and is really the key to the systems. I personally find the variety of roles in the DMC strata to offer a lot of flexibility, with plenty of space to play in. For example, I'm currently playing as Genoa, and we are by far the best team in Italy, though our reputation is not yet high enough to strike fear in the top tier CL teams. Against the dreaded 3322 with wingbacks and quick forwards I could drop my DL and force the opposition to come at me. My DMC pair being a DM(S) and SV(s) offers plenty of security, and they do indeed get forward. Of course, it's dependent on who is in front of them - if I want to really overrun the opposition's midfield, I'll use an SS or AM(a) , which essentially clears the way for the Volante to do his thing, even if not on Attack duty. Otherwise, the natural layering you get from those duties and positions can be very difficult for the AI to deal with. As an aside, I played a CL semi final match against Barca, and went very aggressive, giving them no chance without having to sacrifice too much of my own strength down the flanks - there is a lot to be said for the security of having two deep and aggressive midfielders. In my endless tinkering, I often get caught up with looking at the tactic screen and losing sight of the fact that a) It's my defensive shape and b) it's a snapshot of a vary dynamic system. For example, dropping your AMC to the CM strata can actually end up being very aggressive and potent with the right player. Not to mention the deep system can offer great protection for the regista or dlp against more aggressive opponents, or force the more organized defenses to actually come out. Finally, I fully agree about the need for hard working attacking fullbacks, though I find it to be important to resist the temptation to make them too eager to get up the pitch. For example, in my system, on the right flank, the one with the Volante, I use a FB(s) and a W(s). If I used a wingback, he would end up getting up the pitch too early and trying to dominate things too much, taking much of the spotlight from the Volante, and creating a bit of a cull-de-sac against packed defenses. As an FB(s), he hangs back, gets involved later, and not only ensures the flank is solid, but is very difficult for defenses to deal with as he has so much more space to pick up steam and find the right cross. The right volante is able to create this kind of space in a very unique way, even if on support duty. As for forwards being isolated, I can't imagine it being that much of an issue, even if not using an AMC.
  5. The thing with the Regista is it's a roaming and aggressive role, and tends to neglect his defensive duties. As far as I remember, Tonali's off the ball is not great, so you could just put him as a DLP, so he stays in the hole spraying passes to the players in front. If you must use a Regista, then I'd recommend you use a more "responsible", less glamorous role in the center of the pitch. In terms of ratings, good luck getting great ones for all three, because to ensure a team performance you'll still need a water-carrrier type who will do the simple things and ensure your machine is ticking. With the set-up you have now, who is going to be the one to slow things down or at least keep things steady if and when one of your players loses the ball?
  6. Ok some of this may seem insane but, as always it's squad related. First, imho Ozil at the center of the pitch, as your focal point, in this tactic, could work but he's got a lot of ground to cover - or it could be that his teammates have a lot of weight to carry for him. An AP on attack duty should be driving up the pitch with the ball, and his teammates will look for him. I play with Roma, and my CM is Lorenzo Pelligrini. Now he's no Ozil but a bit similar in that he's a classing Advanced Playmaker (runs with ball often, tries killer balls, pass rather than attempting to score). When giving him the role of CM(a), as unglamorous and "vanilla" as it seems, he's actually able to express himself via the ppm's, while also ensuring he's not the (only) focal point for attacks. I absolutely do not want my fullbacks playing it to him too early and too often while he's stranded in the pressure cooker that the midfield becomes. Any midfield featuring two DMC's especially one with a Volante gets pretty ugly for the more glamorous footballers - by winter break, lil Mesut will be off taking selfies on a yacht while nursing his broken nail. Giving him a non-playmaking role could allow your play to develop more before finding him or another player in better position. Also, keep in mind a playmaker in the center will inevitably compete for space with the Volante who is given a lot of license to roam and essentially boss the midfield. One thing to keep in mind is this tactic can be a powerhouse but that comes with a price. For me, I was dominating the Juventus-dominated Seria A, until about February, when injuries and fatigue started to take their toll. With the likes of Partey in your line-up, you run the danger of not having adequate cover. One advantage of the SV role is that he tends to do a bit of everything and "impose" himself on the pitch - that can lead to some flatteringlly spectacular performances, but you also need to ensure you've got enough depth and cover for the long season. Now here's what worked for me in my second season. I know it sounds strange, but by switching my mentality to Attacking, my defending and overall play improved tremendously. Suddenly, the urgency of build up this kind of formation needs was there. I could actually see the aggression in both my defending and attacking. The beauty of the tactic came from getting it up the pitch quickly to the wide players, through sudden crossfield passes and seeing the opposition get punished when they enter my zone. The way I did it was by shortening the team passing while focusing down the flanks or the middle depending on the opponent. Ideally, what I wanted was to create the overloads, with the knockout punch being a less characteristic long diagonal ball to my advanced players or a cutback to the onrushing central one. One other thing you may want to do is turn your striker into a pressing forward or give him more aggressive pressing. You need someone who will be a nuisance to the opposition and disrupt their build up. You may find ratings for your centerbacks to be on the low side even (or especially) when you win, because either the dmc's deal with opposition attacks or they have not much to do. There is a risk of the opposition being able to set up shop in your central midfield, so having someone (other than Ozil, you don't want him to break his nail) and add a bit of steel to your central area.
  7. I used this formation a couple of versions ago, with Hoffenheim, which were, when I took over, in disarray - underachieving squad and the previous manager used 352 so they had a load of wingbacks and no decent wingers, so decided to try it. We ended up playing some great defensive football, which was ugly at times but very effective. As the team evolved the style improved but the foundation stayed the same - attacks mostly down the flanks, and a load of 1:0 wins. I managed to change things with inverted wingbacks later on and things got a bit more stylish, but that's another topic. In FM, even when they're pushed to the wb slot, wingbacks tend to drop deep to join the rest of the defensive line. What you have, essentially, is a 5 defender formation. This can be good defending if you set your roles right, and the wingbacks can absolutely wreak havoc, but the most important part is your midfield engine room - the center of the pitch, where you only have two players. I personally used an MC(d) and a BWM(s) for a while, and switched the duties of the two from time to time, but had little luck with the deep lying playmaker as, unless he's amazing, there will just be too much of a burden on him. The two central midfielders in this formation need to cover a lot of ground and boss this area of the pitch, often against three opponents in the center of the pitch. Yes there are three cenrterbacks behind them, but without either an AMC to drop deep or DMC to clean up the mess, a lot of the dirty work will be done in the center - defensively as well as linking the attack and midfield. What worked for me were fast transitions to the wide men with the forward as either a holding pivot up the pitch (which is the case for Wolfsburg) or a counterattacking threat clearing up the space for the wingers to cut inside. Against teams that push up, especially those with wide forwards, this is very difficult to cope against. A striker like Mandzhukic in with his mentals could be ideal for that. I'm personally not a fan of both wide players on Attack, and considering the numbers you have on the wings, some variety wouldn't hurt. If you have such a player, a wide AP with an overlapping wingback behind him and overloading IF (or even RMD) on the opposite flank is very hard to defend against. It almost creates a "pick and roll" situation to use a basketball term - get ready for 6.9 ratings for said AP and your wingback getting loads of assists, but it certainly works. Finally if you really want to get adventurous, you could try a Libero. I must say it didn't work nearly as well for me as I had imagined, but that could be down to my lack of tactical knowledge than anything else.
  8. Well, judging by the players you have your team is pretty good. You can play a low block, but with the quality you have, it would certainly have to utterly punish and break the will of your opponents, and it starts and ends in your central midfield, even if the rewards are devoured by your wide men. The anchor-rpm tandem, with Harry Kane as the enganche is way too demanding on poor Tonali, both in attack and defense. You may consider a Segundo Volante to dominate this space. The anchorman will not contribute much in terms of build-up, and is much too conservative to be of much help in transitions. Suppose Tonali gets marked out, you're asking Josko and Tomyasu to carry the load on their own, with Harry Kane hanging in the hole just probably shaking his head screaming for the ball. A volante is given license to cover that space without always having to carry the entire burden the way an rpm is. Also, changing from an anchorman to a DM might help not only to contain in the defensive phase, but also in attacking transitions. The anchorman, particularly a natural central defender, is a bit too passive. Now for Harry the enganche...In this particular formation, it leaves the rest of midfield too exposed and is very demanding on him. Especially if you want to play a low block, you'd need someone who will contribute defensively. I personally had a lot of luck with MC(a) as he'd bomb forward when we'd get the ball back, but also close down and be a bit of a nuisance, giving my DMC's enough time to get back into position. Also, changing your striker to a Pressing Forward (a) might still offer the runs going forward, while also contributing. Remember, for the low block to work, the entire team should be involved and you've got to have a shock effect on the defense at the right times - otherwise you run the risk of just being overrun. One final word on Tomyasu. While he's a half decent wingback, he can also do a very competent job as part of a DMC pairing. I play him as an SV as he has the workrate and all around abilty to patrol that area while also offering defensive stability and a bit of creativity when needed.
  9. Actually that series by Cleon is one of my favorites of all time and inspired me to a sometimes hair-pulling obsession with the SV role and the two DMC formation in general. I could very well be wrong, but one of the things which has been reworked in this match engine has been central play. Still, as with previous versions, space is most important, as is the relation of roles and duties to each other. I used this formation quite successfully with a hard working team of runners and grafters, and it was a joy to watch seeing the team simply overpower the opposition with the volante doing just what he should do - be the heartbeat of the team. I then took over Roma with dreams of Zanolo, Vertout, and Pelligrini slotting into the tactic to create a European powerhouse. What ended up happening were logjams with Zanolo shooting from everywhere or Pelligrini getting his knees stomped on the halfway line. What works for me now is turning the AM to a CM (a), and having him provide a direct, simple, yet deadly option from deep. He not only creates space as a runner from relatively deep, pitching in with plenty of goals and assists, but also creates that effect of the attacking monsoon from the center of the pitch. Coupled with a right kind of SV, you end up with a sort of double barrel effect. When the attacking midfielder is in the AMC slot, he simply doesn't create that because he's already positioned where he can be marked out, especially as you're playing with a team like Arsenal. Basically what you'd be left with is one of your widemen to dribble through a packed defense and make something happen. Also, I initially used the other dmc as either a DM(d) or DLP, and found it lacking. Considering he is capable of contributing to the attack, giving him support duty actually helped create this pivot, but he ends up being a bit more active defensively without being a ball magnet. I tend to keep PI's blank, allowing for player selection to color the approach - you can use a natural playmaker type of a destroyer, depending on what you need and who you're up against. My approach play is at times very different from the "kill moves" because of the nature of the tactic. I would say half my goals come from the neat interplay through the middle or down the wings. The other half, of course, happen when play breaks down - usually through the ccounterattack or counterpress, where the opposition is overwhelmed by the defensive shape. Finally, you've got a very nice overload possibility on your right with the IF and Volante (I'd personally have an IW there as he tends to start a bit wider), so be sure to put a bit of creativity through the left in order to take advantage of that.
  10. “If I have to make a tackle then I have already made a mistake.” - Paolo Maldini. I wouldn't worry about tackles Personally I focus more on the interception stats, although if the football is as I intend it to be, why worry? For example, when I win fairly easily, my defensive minded cm tends to get fairly low ratings. He completes 90% of his passes, makes one or two interceptions, and his kit is clean as he's had no tackle to make .
  11. Fullbacks tucking in more or player positioning being considerably different affects the way a tactic plays out - I'm not sure if it's a matter of loopholes opening up or being plugged. Regardless, I'm curious if the changes in the ME are affecting people's tactics and results or do sound principles trump those changes.
  12. I know I should post this in the bugs forum and really don't want to disrupt the flow of this forum, but I updated to the live Beta patch, and since then, I feel like I'm playing a new game. Yes, the overpowered "lump it to the vardy" bug is gone, which is refreshing, but there are so many other things which seem to require a tactical overhaul. For example, I use a 4312, and fullbacks are a huge part of my tactic. Since the patch, when I don't have the ball, they just tuck in and hide behind my CB's, more likely to clear the ball off the goal line than close down or follow the opposition winger. When we have the ball, they turn to deep lying raumdauters, wide open and ready to cut inside regardless of instructions I give them. I don't want to turn this into a complaint session, and I know this isn't the place for it. I just want to know how others approach this change in the ME. Does updating mean the entire tactic should be reworked, and if so, would it be better to just use the old engine until the new update is stabilized?
  13. After playing a few games with this patch, I'm noticing a few things which are really nice. The dribbling and skirmishes for the ball in certain spots look more realistic. The whole long ball counterattack thing seems to be finally fixed, which makes for far more pleasant gameplay and tactical planning. I like the variety of goals being scored, as well as a few other things that have been mentioned here. One troubling thing I find is the positioning of my players seems to have morphed and gone a bit weird. This is particularly the case with fullbacks. I play a 4312 formation, using the fullbacks in the wingback role, and since the patch came out it seems they always either tuck in right next to the CB's, or just wander around. Out of possession they seem as likely to make a clearance in our own six yard box as my centerbacks, while when in possession, even if I instruct them to stay wider, they seem to just roam around when the ball is not on their "side" of the pitch. At times, the central midfielders also seem a bit "unhinged" in their positioning, but it's especially troubling when it's the fullbacks, since they're so vital to the overall "shape" of my team.
  14. I use virtually the same roles with Parma in the first season, so the squad is not good by any stretch of the imagination, particularly in defense. I started using it because I had a number of decent central midfielders and it's a formation I've always enjoyed. One of the advantages of this tactic is the "space" you get if you lump it under pressure, particularly in this match engine. I'm not saying play hoofball, but don't get caught up on the possession stats. I usually play a shorter passing game and my dlp or mezzala is still able to lump it to the rabid PF for a one of one (and he doesn't miss from time to time). High tempo/short passing/play out of defense? Yup, unless you've got regens of Beckenbauer and Maldini with Nesta waiting in the wings, you're lumping it long for all the wrong reasons. To play that kind of game, stringing gorgeous short passes together you need even more gorgeous weather conditions and players with excellent technique. Personally, I play somewhat wider, keeping my passing length at mixed, and allow myself as much of the pitch as possible, especially as I don't trust my players to get out of tight spaces. I imagine your AMC is particularly frustrating to watch. The idea of him spraying passes or running on to flick ons from your DLF just doesn't pan out, does it? I set mine to roam and as a AP, so that he can have a more dynamic interplay with the mezzala. Also, I found that putting the striker as a Complete Forward as opposed to DLF helps create space and reduce congestion in that middle area. The line of engagement thing is another thing you may want to take a look at. Do you really want your front three in the center of midfield praying for your poor fullbacks to somehow release them? Personally, especially against teams that like to build from the back, I like to up the line of engagement to "higher". This gets the front three actually defending from the front and posing more of a threat. Even if they're bypassed, if by chance you actually win the ball deeper, you'll have three players in the center to keep the opposition honest. On support duty, your AMC will still track back, and if you give him more closing down, he'll help out a lot. "Play out of defense" works - until it doesn't. If the defenders don't have any safer options, they'll play it long, especially as you have a deep lying playmaker on defend there. He'll try to make himself available, and if he's marked, then the only other option is to lump it to the pressing forward and hope for the best. I countered that by having my Advanced playmaker on "roam from position" so that there is another option high up the pitch. Another option would be putting your DLP on Support so that he has the option of riskier passes - otherwise he just chooses the safest, shortest, and easiest option of recycling possession (more often than not back to your centerbacks. Playing against teams that clog the midfield and have outlets on the wings, this is a very dangerous system to play if you want to keep possession and have a slow build up. Even the mezzala's real estate is limited, and if he loses the ball, it's very dangerous. My own midfield three are CM DLP(D) and B2B / Mezz, depending on the system I'm up against. Up front I have a complete forward, who is still eager to drop deep, but more often than not finds pockets of space in the more advanced wide areas. As for short vertical passes, I would guess having a combo of DLP (D) and AP, along with slighly more static outer midfielders might work - but only if your players have very strong technique and mental stats, since you'd basically be playing through the opposition's midfield. Anyway I hope that helps. I personally enjoy the 4312, as it's very flexible and can produce some beautiful football when it works - and utter shambles when it doesn't.
  15. @grazdoztrez It's not really a plug and play tactic and the problems of players far apart of far from the ball are actually not that hard to fix. Anyway, good luck. Hamburg have a pretty decent squad so you should be fine...
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