Where has all the fun gone? (my issues with fm11)

[wwfan]

You say the arrows resulted in robotic runs. But I say it made us to have the ability in straightforward in how we wanted the players to move, just set the way you want players to move. Arrows were quick, less time consuming and straightforward and that is why I like arrows.

So, you wanted players to move into a certain position, no matter where the ball was on the pitch, even if it was totally illogical and unrealistic for them to do so. That is what arrows did.

It would be great to have more controlled off the ball movement, so players could drift off the wing, hug the touchline, play on the shoulder as well as the current options of runs from deep, move into channels, drops deep etc. However, they could not be old-style arrows as the robotic movement issue would repeat.

The micromanagement can be made much easy if you use link between tactics and the match preparation (this needs to be part of training) to set up three different tactics and use the shouts to switch between those tactics.

Note: I feel I need to explain how the system between tactics and match preparation should work. On the tactics you can have three slots to define those three tactics and then use match preparation (part of training), to define how exactly you want to train those tactics (if it is team blending, attacking, defending and those options like we have on FM11 match preparation), to make even less time consuming for the user to quickly change between those tactics by using the shouts.

So, you only want three tactics, no other possible variations?

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

I made a few images using tacticalpad and GIMP of what I envision to be a more realistic tactics interface. You can't tell me a manager IRL wouldn't be able to instruct his team to do things like this before the match.

Player positioning and attacking runs:

Passing range and through balls

Closing down

Likes this....a lot!

[grade]

So, you only want three tactics, no other possible variations?

I said three tactics because it is the maximum you can have on match preparation screen.

[wwfan]

I said three tactics because it is the maximum you can have on match preparation screen.

Is it not unrealistically restrictive to only have 3 possible ways of playing? It seems to me that you don't like the necessity of tactical adaptation and want to return to a system where the user can win with very little thought. Not my idea of fun, I'm afraid.

[daylight]

Player ratings too low/Goalscorers overated.

It's a very rare thing for the man of the match not to be the guy that put his foot on the end of the cross or the big defender who bundled the ball over the line at a corner. Sure scoring goals is nice but any real football fan knows it was the defensive midfielders 12 tackles and 90% pass completion that realy won the game. I would like to see this better represented in the player ratings. Maybe even bump them up a few points across the board.

I have seen this posted a few times and also someone asking why his DM never got above 7.0,

I really am not sure why this is for you guys,I play a 3-1-3-1-2 and my DM gets a man of the match regularly,he only scores around 4 or 5 a season but has a rating of around 7.40 for the season.

He is classed as a world class midfielder and puts in a lot of tackles but like I said rarely scores but it does not effect his rating.

I do agree that if a player is having a bad game(maybe 5.7) but then scores and his rating shoots up(maybe 7.2) is a bit strange but as for the DM thing I do not have a problem with it at all(maybe a touch off topic)

[Bradley21]

I find it hard to believe that there are still people who haven't been won over by the TC. I remember when it was first incorporated into FML (i think before it was in a normal FM title?) i was really vocal on the forums about how i felt it would dumb the game down a lot and make tactics too rigid. But after using it a lot it was apparent that its so much better than the old sliders.

Its just better in almost every area, it just allows you to be so much more dynamic in matches, as well as enabling new users or people with a shallower tactical knowledge to make changes that they can understand and see working. I feel silly now when i think back to when i was vocal about not putting it in the game, the chats i had (sometimes arguments!)with wwfan in the FML ME threads about it really swayed me to give it a proper chance when i was still in slider mode, so glad i did give it a chance now!

That said i would like it to be built on at some stage in the future, theres a lot more that could be done to take it to the next level.

[grade]

Is it not unrealistically restrictive to only have 3 possible ways of playing? It seems to me that you don't like the necessity of tactical adaptation and want to return to a system where the user can win with very little thought. Not my idea of fun, I'm afraid.

That is limit of the game (prepare your team with 3 tactics) and if you have problem with that, then complain it to SI. I'm done.

[CaptainPlanet]

The man of the match thing irks me almost as much as the pre-match odds!

[wwfan]

That is limit of the game (prepare your team with 3 tactics) and if you have problem with that, then complain it to SI. I'm done.

That's how many systems you can train. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to adapt on the fly. I'm all for the idea of trying to perfect ways of playing in training. However, you can not extend that into an argument that no other forms of play should be possible. Trying to play in a different way might/should have a performance knock on (i.e. having to adapt to the physical confrontation offered on a wet, Tuesday night in Stoke might result in passing percentage being all askew), but you cannot remove the option to try it.

[Johnjo]

That's how many systems you can train. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to adapt on the fly. I'm all for the idea of trying to perfect ways of playing in training. However, you can not extend that into an argument that no other forms of play should be possible. Trying to play in a different way might/should have a performance knock on (i.e. having to adapt to the physical confrontation offered on a wet, Tuesday night in Stoke might result in passing percentage being all askew), but you cannot remove the option to try it.

So how does this work under the hood? If i train my team in match prep to play a high defensive line then use the drop deeper shout in-match will the team have no knowledge of it? Do I have to set my team up with a deeper defensive line in match prep for them to gain said knowledge?

[wwfan]

They won't be quite as attuned to the elements explicit in the match prep if they are changed to adapt to circumstances. However, it only happens to a similar degree as it does in real life sport. You can't quite play your favoured game as the opposition/conditions won't allow it, so you adapt to one that offers the best chance of winning. You won't play quite as you'd like and win slightly uglier, but as you are making logical changes, you will actually do better than if you didn't.

It is very rare in any sport to play exactly as you planned or trained for. Only the very best on their best days can do that.

[Stephanie McMahon's Secret Lover]

I prefer to holiday through games these days to speed my seasons up

Amen to that. Much more fun. Tend to get much less annoyed when my far superior team gets beat 3-0 at home by a ten man opposition. Naturally I do use cuurent tactics and team when possible. Don't want the assman getting ALL the blame

[Broham]

Actually the problem of the game is actually that players follow tactics to a degree that theres almost no mistakes. In real life, its very hard to have all 11 players on the pitch comitted and doing exactly what you want them to do. Take counter attacks for example. All the opposing teams defence run back so fast to their positions. impossibly fast actually, in complete disregard to their actual conditions. Even tired players run back as fast as they can. In real life, its hard to have ALL the players running back at the same time, because that depends on their commitment, condition, and several other factors that usually arent factored into FM.

If you want more realism, tactics should be more dependant on players mental attributes. Its extremely hard to have every player doing what you want for 90 minutes and its extremely unrealistic. Tired players in the game still make impossibly fast forward runs and counter attack runs, to a point that you can hardly feel if players even get tired at all.

Tactics shouldnt be TOO specific, to a degree where you can map the players footsteps, basically because youre (in theory) using humans, and humans are prone to mistakes. If anything, tactics should be tweaked to allow more mistakes to happen and more players breaking loose from formations based on their mental stats and commitment to the game.

Just look at real life football, how many teams can actually perform the 4-4-2 that ManU uses to an extent that you can actually see two perfect lines in the field? Every team playing 4-4-2 in FM has perfect lines, no matter the quality of the players. Its just something to consider.