Understanding sliders

[papamogl]

This thread wants to be a short companion to the tactical sliders. It is based on Veni_Vidi_Vici’s post in a german speaking forum: http://www.meistertrainerforum.de/index.php/topic,12081.0.html?PHPSESSID=788fbb720d5664518e232831e60a0636. Credits go as well to a lot of posters in this forum who helped me build an understanding of what the sliders actually do.

An important information first: individual player instructions do generally overwrite team instructions if these two collide. An exception is the most attacking and most defensive team instruction which overwrites all individual players mentality instructions. So let's go

Mentality:

The players mentality defines how he positions himself when not in possession. When in possession, mentality interacts with several other instructions like run from deep, roaming etc. With a defensive mentality a player will generally search a position relatively further back to the outline of the formation. This however is influenced by the pressing setting. So when giving a player a defensive mentality (maybe five clicks from the left) but high pressing, he will look to position himself further back, but will try to attack the opponent with the ball soon. So the mentality influences his positioning when not in possession, the pressing defines the radius around him in which he is going to attack the opponents player with the ball (the lesser the pressing setting, the smaller the radius).

Mentality does also interact with the 'run from deep' setting. The lower the mentality the later a player will try a run from the deep. So with a mentality of 0 and run from deep often he will try and run from deep only if the ball is already near the opponents penalty box. If you want to emulate a late arriver in the box a relatively low mentality setting and 'run from deep' often will be a good bet.

A short list of parameters the mentality can affect in the offensive phase:

The higher the mentality the more risk a player takes at:

• run from deep (starts earlier)
  
• through balls (tries it more often)
  
• passing in general (looks to play the ball forward more often)
  
• Dribblings (tries more dribblings)
  
• long shots (shoots from unfavorabler positions)
  

In the defensive phase it affects a players positioning, pressing, and maybe tackling.

So as you can see, the mentality interacts with a lot of other parameters. But from now on it can only get easier

Creative freedom:

A high creative freedom does allow a player to often try unexpected things. It does not annul the general settings. If a player with a high creativity setting is advised to a short passing, he will generally do that. But he is more likely to try an unexpected long pass. That's an important difference: a high creativity setting does not suspend his other settings, but it allows him to the higher the setting the more often differ from this settings.

As a general rule it seems to be accepted that only one or two players in your team should be allowed to have a high creative freedom. And depending on the strenght of your team this could be around 13-14 clicks or significantly higher. If you are managing a side with many creative players you can try and give them high creative freedom. Flair, decision making, intuition, as well as creativity are important skills for a player if he is to have high creative freedom. Especially flair and creativity are important, as these two go hand in hand (thanks to Cleon for that info). Players with a low decision stat should probably be given less creative freedom. It won't prevent bad decisions though, but at least he's less likely to try silly things.

Defenders and the gk should generally be given less creative freedom. If they try fancy stuff and loose the ball, well ... The defense seems overall to be more stable and allow less chances if the creative freedom settings are kept low (between 5 and 8 clicks approximately). I've read somewhere that in case of bad wheather high creative freedom might lead to more errors but I haven't observed that myself so far.

A tip I've read: when you need to score and are not able to create chances, it helps if you have a creative player on the bench who then can be brought on.

A crisp mnemonic: a high creative freedom let's a player try and exploit his strengths whereas a low creative freedom makes him stick to the gameplan

Passing style:

Short: A player looks for short options passing the ball to the nearest teammate. This works better with a low width setting because your team is sticking together more, offering more short pass options. Direct: the player will look to pass the ball directly to one of your attackers. Works well if you are playing on fast counter. As a rule of thumb the shorter passing style you chose the more passes are made until a chance is created while on direct passing your team will attempt to create a chance with only two or three passes.

As another rule of thumb short passing should go with a slow tempo (otherwise it's technically very demanding) and direct passing should go with a fast tempo (it's pointless to try a slow counter attack, isn't it)

Be aware that the passing style is also affected by the creative freedom and the mentality setting.

Closing down:

The higher the setting, the earlier a player is stepping out of his position to pressure the opponent with the ball. If the setting is too high, especially for the defenders, the formation might get dispersed creating gaps which easily can get exploited. If it is too low the opponent might have too much time to choose the best option and play a killer ball. It is quite a useful concept to augment the setting the higher up a player is positioned (gk very low, defenders low, midfielders somewhat more etc). There are of course many exceptions that can be made.

Some thing to consider: If you are playing a DMC and an MC, it might not be good to give the DMC much higher pressing setting because he will then attack the opponent with your MC still waiting. And this would cause a gap between your defense and midfield. So when deciding how much pressing a player should be given, you should first think about his position and mentality.

Again, think of pressing as the radius around a player in which he is going to attack the ball. The higher the pressing, the bigger the radius. And the bigger the radius, the more your player will be running. So a high pressing setting will exhaust your players and drag your team out of shape.

Agressiveness and bravery are important attributes. Btw. the opponent instructions 'press always' overrules your individual player settings so that this opponent always will get pressed no matter which pressing instructions your own player is given.

What I found and haven't read anywhere so far is that pressing and width are interconnected. If you want your team to play a pressing game like Barcelona, the width should be set to narrow! So that the players stick together more, moving as a whole from one flank to the other. This will lead to opponents players on the other flank unmarked, but that isn't a problem really as they are difficult to pass to and your team will have enough time to realign until a ball reaches them. When playing narrow your players won't get drawn out of position as much and there are always more than one player cutting the opponents options.

Tackling:

This affects how hard a tackling is. The pressing setting affects how soon your player will move towards the ball; how soon a tackling is attempted depends on closing down settings as well as on individual players attributes like decision, anticipation, determination, positioning etc. (Again according Cleons information). Hard tackling instruction will lead to more fouling.

Important attributes for hard tackling: positioning, tackling, concentration, anticipation, and decisions (Cleons info again). Light tackling: positioning, concentration, anticipation. There's also a ppm 'dives into tacklings'.

Run from deep:

This regulates how often your player will leave his position to join the attack. How soon he does this is regulated by his mentality. A poacher should be instructed to rarely run from deep combined with a high mentality so that he's always the spearhead of your attack. If you want to have a late arriver in the box set 'run from deep' to sometimes or often and give him a relatively defensive mentality. Don't be to too generous in assigning rfd as this might lead to a overcrowded penalty area with no real passing option and leaving your midfield open for counter attacks.

Run with ball:

Well, it does just that. A player advised to run with the ball tries dribblings and tries to gain ground with the ball afoot. Decision making is the attribute that influences whether a player actually opts for the pass or the dribbling. The mentality influences how risky the attempted dribblings can be.

Long shots:

Goes together with mentality. The higher the mentality setting, the sooner a player will opt for a long shot if he is advised to do so. If you aren't desperate underdog who has to try to shoot whenever possible you should sparingly use this instruction as it can destroy your build-up play.

Through balls:

If you are playing on counter many players can be set to often try through balls. Through balls are a good way to create chances, however if too many players try it too often you'll loose a lot of posession and your build-up play will suffer a lot. Passing, creativity and intuition are important attributes.

Cross ball:

Haven't much to say about that. It's good to restrict cross ball for the players in the middle of the park as they sometimes (not often though) try crosses from awkward positions.

Wide play:

This influences the positioning in the attacking phase. Move into channels lets a player exploit gaps (this is an off the ball instruction), e.g. between the DC and the fullback. Just as pressing can draw a player out of position in the defensive phase this one (and 'run from deep') can draw him out of position in the offensive phase.

In Wide Play, it's often useful to merely think of them as width setting for each player. So Hug Touchline makes them play a lotwider than they would, move into channels makes them play a little wider, and cut inside makes them play narrower. All instructions [except move into channels] only affect the player once they have the ball.

(Thanks to ham_aka_stam for this information)

Swap positions:

Self explaining. I think the positions aren't swapped in the middle of an attack but for longer times.

Marking:

A common misconception about marking: man marking in FM isn't the same as man marking irl (this would be specific man marking). It is still zonal marking but a more aggressive one. So it's actually a good idea to set your midfielders/attackers on man marking while having the defenders on zonal.

Roam from position:

It's the willingnes to leave the position to find space. A player with roaming ticked will generally orient towards the ball and look to exploit space. When playing three MCs, giving the MCL and MCR roaming will have the result that these two players try to use the space on the flanks. It does affect how willingly and how far a player leaves his position to be unmarked by an opponent.

Hold up ball:

A player holds up the ball until other players have moved up and the team has taken up it's offensive shape. Usually used for DMCs or deep lying forwards

Oh well, that much about being short. Congratulations if you have managed to read through all of this. All points are open for discussion

[papamogl]

Defensive line:

Defines the distance between your goal(keeper) and the defensive line. If you are to play a very high d-line at least one of your DCs better be fast and have good acceleration. A sweeper keeper can help to intercept through balls. When facing fast strikers (like Torres) too high a d-line can be very dangerous as it gives him just the space he needs to use his pace. Playing the offside trap can attenuate that danger somewhat but requires defenders who can play it and has it's own dangers. When fielding a sweeper (libero) the d-line shouldn't be too high as the sweeper constantly cancels the offside.

On the other hand when playing your d-line deeper you have to be careful that your players can shield the space between the defense and the midfield. Fielding a DM (or more) is the most obvious solution here but also the mentality settings of the midfield should be subject of consideration.

Setting up the d-line and the pressing for your defenders should go hand in hand. Usually a low d-line goes together with a bit lower pressing settings (a defense that's sitting back) and a higher d-line with somewhat higher pressing settings. Playing a stopper - cover combo can be done both with a low or a high d-line.

Width:

Defines how close your team sticks together. If you want to play an intensive pressing game choosing to play narrow helps reducing the gaps between your teammembers. While the vertical spaces between your lines is influenced by mentality settings and other factors (run from deep etc.), the width settings defines to some amount the horizontal space between your players. There are other parameters such as wide play that can have an influence as well. A very short passing game works best with a somewhat narrow set up.

Tempo:

Tempo defines the speed of the passing game. It also influences on how fast your players switch from their defensive to their offensive position. A high tempo is usually said to go together with a direct passing style, slow tempo with a short one (with Arsenal being an exception as they are playing a quick and short passing game which is very demanding in terms of passing, first touch, and technique). Possession based football often goes together with a slow passing game, the reverse being true for a counterattacking style. Exceptions are very possible though these being the standard.

When your team is misplacing too many passes this might be connected with your passing style and tempo not being balanced.

There are nationspecific differences between the tempo: Italian teams tend to play rather slow, English sides tend to play faster. So when you decide to have your team playing very fast in Italy you might face some problems in keeping possession enough.

Tempo can be adjusted during a game. When you want to park the bus reducing the tempo can help keeping possession. Contrarily increasing the speed might help if you need to score or if you want to counter. You can adjust the tempo even according to the opponents pressing: if the other team is sitting back it doesn't help much sending quickfire passes back and forth in your own half. If the opponent is pressing early on and heavily playing too slowly might lead to interceptions and squandered balls.

Time wasting:

Decides how much time your players are taking for all of their actions. In the lowest setting your team always tries to create a scoring chance as fast as possible and throwing all men forward. Highest setting: your players don't actively try to create chances but are keen to keep possession. Instead of crossing a ball will stop at the touchline and try to keep the ball as long as possible and probably get a corner. Only the extremest settings best be understood as time wasting. In between them it rather defines how much your players hurry to create chances. And that doesn't only mean how much time they take to execute a throw in but in fact how keen they are to make forward passes. So a higher time wasting can help keep possession. Whereas it might lead to less created chances, they may be of higher quality. When the opponent presses heavily and early on it might be better to reduce time wasting because otherwise your players are too slow in making things happen which might lead to loss of the ball.

While hold up ball affects only one player time wasting affects the whole team. If you want your team to play a short passing game with a high tempo increasing time wasting helps keeping possession as well as keeping the stamina of your players up. So increasing time wasting can allow your players to take a breather.

More to come

[ham_aka_stam]

Mentality:

The players mentality defines how he acts when not in possession. When in possession, the formation together with several other instructions like run from deep, roaming etc. influence his position.

The higher the mentality the more risk a player takes at:

• run from deep (starts earlier)
  
• through balls (tries it more often)
  
• passing in general (looks to play the ball forward more often; tries riskier passes)
  
• Dribblings (tries more dribblings)
  
• long shots (shoots from unfavorabler positions)
  

These two are a contradiction, with the latter being correct.

In Creative Freedom, you often confuse Creativity with Creative Freedom. They are entirely different.

In Closing Down you mention rayon, I think you mean radius.

In RFD, you say

For your most advanced player 'run from deep' should be set to rarely as he is always the spearhead of the attack and doesn't have to run from deep

which is incorrect IMO. If you want your player to always be at the front of attacks, having Often RFD is very important, otherwise on occasions when he's dropped deep, he won't rush to make runs, he'll stay where he is.

In Wide Play, it's often useful to merely think of them as width setting for each player. So Hug Touchline makes them play a lotwider than they would, move into channels makes them play a little wider, and cut inside makes them play narrower. All instructions only affect the player once they have the ball.

[Cleon]

A good thread

However I have a few points to make;

Creative freedom:

A high creative freedom does allow a player to often try unexpected things. It does not annul the general settings. If a player with a high creativity setting is advised to a short passing, he will generally do that. But he is more likely to try an unexpected long pass. That's an important difference: a high creativity setting does not suspend his other settings, but it allows him to the higher the setting the more often differ from this settings.

As a general rule it seems to be accepted that only one or two players in your team should be allowed to have a high creativity setting. And depending on the strenght of your team this could be around 13-14 clicks (lower leagues) or significantly higher. If you are managing a world class side you can give more players high creative freedom. Decision making, intuition as well as creativity are important skills for a player if he is to have high creative freedom. Players with a low decision stat should be given less creative freedom. It won't prevent bad decisions though, but at least he's less likely to try silly thing

Not once have you mentioned flair while mentioning creative freedom. Flair is essential for player's who have high CF. Flair and creativity go hand in hand. I actually disagree about a player with low decisions not having too high creative freedom. I'd still give a creative player hight CF is his decisions was low. As the rest of the stats should allow him to still be effective. Also do you realise creativity is different to creative freedom?

It's also nothing to do with been a low league side or world class side. What is important is that you have players who are capable of been creative. You still get very good creative players in none world class sides.

Tackling:

This affects how soon your player dives into tackles or tries to attack the ball rather than just block it.

No it doesn't. All the tackling setting does it determine how 'hard' a tackle is. It has no bearing on how soon a player tackles or whether he dives in. For what you described to happen, that would rely on the players individual attributes and not the tackling setting. To determine at what point a player makes a tackle would be made by his closing down settings and then his anticipation, positioning, determination, decisions etc. For a player to dive into a tackle that would be his aggression attribute.

The pressing setting affects how soon your player will move towards the ball; the tackling setting decides when a player tries to snatch up a ba

When the ball is near the so called players 'zone' then yes. But just because someone has high closing down doesn't mean they'll run around like headless chickens.

Important attributes for hard tackling: tackling, bravery, aggressiveness

No, no, no. For hard tackling the top 4 attributes should be positioning, tackling, anticipation and decisions. A player could have every single stat you've listed yet if his decision making is not high enough he'll risk losing a foul regardless of whether he has the stats you listed or not.

Run with ball:

Well, it does just that. A player advised to run with the ball tries dribblings and tries to gain ground with the ball afoot. Decision making is the attribute that influences whether a player actually opts for the pass or the dribbling. The mentality influences how risky the attempted dribblings can be.

A players technique would have more of a say at how risky the dribble was rather than mentality imo.

Wide play:

This influences the positioning in the attacking phase. Move into channels lets a player exploit gaps, e.g. between the DC and the fullback. Just as pressing can draw a player out of position in the defensive phase this one (and 'run from deep') can draw him out of position in the offensive phase.

I should point out here that moves into channels only works when a player doesn't have the ball. It's an off the ball movement. The other 2 options hug touchline and cuts inside are on the ball movements.

Roam from position:

It's the willingnes to leave the position to find space. A player with roaming ticked will generally orient towards the ball and look to exploit space. When playing three MCs, giving the MCL and MCR roaming will have the result that these two players try to use the space on the flanks. It does affect how willingly and how far a player leaves his position to be unmarked by an opponent.

It should only be given to players who can make use of the space though and can actually make stuff happen in a game. If not it's a waste and more of a burden than anything else.

I don't mean to be critical because I appreciate the effort that goes into creating a thread like this and I give credit and respect for such things. But I also comment when somethings I don't agree with you

A very good thread though and no doubt will cause a few talking points

There is more I could comment on but the above poster beat me to it. For what its worth I also agree with everything he's put

[wwfan]

In RFD, you say which is incorrect IMO. If you want your player to always be at the front of attacks, having Often RFD is very important, otherwise on occasions when he's dropped deep, he won't rush to make runs, he'll stay where he is.

l

Actually, the logic in the TC and ME sets the highest FC with low or no Run from Deep for this very reason. The ME uses mentality to recognise which FC is the higher one and keeps him high, whereas lower mentality FCs drop deeper and thus have Run from Deep as a setting.

[Death.]

A players technique would have more of a say at how risky the dribble was rather than mentality imo.

I thought this would be Flair. I think it was SFraser who said a while ago on the subject of Creativity and Flair, that Creativity is the ability to 'see' the openings, and Flair was the desire to attempt the riskier option, like a chipped pass over a players head, a lobbed shot or an audacious piece of skill to beat a player.

I would have thought with high Technique they'd be more capable of pulling off a risky dribble, but with low Flair they wouldn't attempt it in the first place.

[warm]

I thought this would be Flair. I think it was SFraser who said a while ago on the subject of Creativity and Flair, that Creativity is the ability to 'see' the openings, and Flair was the desire to attempt the riskier option, like a chipped pass over a players head, a lobbed shot or an audacious piece of skill to beat a player.

I would have thought with high Technique they'd be more capable of pulling off a risky dribble, but with low Flair they wouldn't attempt it in the first place.

I think the op means the risk of the dribble is related to his technique, i.e. high technique = lower risk dribble and then low technique = higher risk dribble. I'm open to flair being the attribute which decides whether the player attempts the dribble.

[Cleon]

I thought this would be Flair. I think it was SFraser who said a while ago on the subject of Creativity and Flair, that Creativity is the ability to 'see' the openings, and Flair was the desire to attempt the riskier option, like a chipped pass over a players head, a lobbed shot or an audacious piece of skill to beat a player.

I would have thought with high Technique they'd be more capable of pulling off a risky dribble, but with low Flair they wouldn't attempt it in the first place.

No that is totally wrong and I don't think SFraser would have said that as he understands how it works (unless used in a different context which I think t might have been ). Flair is the attribute that is natural ability and allows players to be unpredictable not riskier. Although a overhead kicks etc can be classed as risky.

Technique is what determines how risky a pass, cross, shot, dribble is etc. Technique = the quality of the technical attributes when on the ball. High technique (obviously needs dribbling attribute too) will determine how risky the dribble is and how refined it is.

[mikcheck]

Cleon but if that player have a reduced mentality, will he try less risky pass?

[papamogl]

Thanks for all the input. I tried to duly correct the op and I hope that it is more accurate now

[Cleon]

Cleon but if that player have a reduced mentality, will he try less risky pass?

If by risky you mean less ambitious then yes. A higher mentality = more forward passes.

[legod]

Cleon but if that player have a reduced mentality, will he try less risky pass?

i think thesee are two different types of "riskiness"

the first type of "risk" is really a matter of quality. better technique = better quality passes/dribbles thus less "risk", less chance of the dribble/pass going awry

the second type of "risk" is a question of mentality. a more attacking mentality means a player is more likely to try to create chances to score. they will try to send through balls, dribble towards goal which are of course, riskier options than simply passing the ball back and retaining possession. eg, a player is more likely to lose the ball if he tries to dribble towards goal than if he simply chooses to pass back to his teamate. he will be more likely to dribble towards goal if he has a more attacking mentality, and more likely to pass back to his teamate if he has a more defensive mentality

[Cleon]

i think thesee are two different types of "riskiness"

the first type of "risk" is really a matter of quality. better technique = better quality passes/dribbles thus less "risk", less chance of the dribble/pass going awry

the second type of "risk" is a question of mentality. a more attacking mentality means a player is more likely to try to create chances to score. they will try to send through balls, dribble towards goal which are of course, riskier options than simply passing the ball back and retaining possession. eg, a player is more likely to lose the ball if he tries to dribble towards goal than if he simply chooses to pass back to his teamate. he will be more likely to dribble towards goal if he has a more attacking mentality, and more likely to pass back to his teamate if he has a more defensive mentality

Sums it up nicely this post

[ham_aka_stam]

Actually, the logic in the TC and ME sets the highest FC with low or no Run from Deep for this very reason. The ME uses mentality to recognise which FC is the higher one and keeps him high, whereas lower mentality FCs drop deeper and thus have Run from Deep as a setting.

I understand that. But if you see your high mentality forward drop deep for whatever reason (tackle, backwards pass etc) especially if he has a free role, it seems that with lower forward runs, he's unlikely to bomb forward to lead the line again. Whereas if you give him often forward runs, he immediately makes sure to get forward and stretch the back-line. I do with United mostly. Both Rooney and Hernandez are given high mentalities, but Rooney has mixed forward runs and Chicho has often. Whilst I realise Javier has the "tries to beat offside trap" ppm, I have tried him with mixed, and he makes much more effort to get forward again when on often.

Even if the effect is minimal, it is unlikely to have a negative effect, so IMO it makes more sense to do it.

Would be interested to know whether you agree with that.

[ham_aka_stam]

Sums it up nicely this post

I agree, and because of this, I ensure ANY high mentality player of mine has Try Through Balls on Often. The reasoning for this is that if they are going to try something risky, I would rather it were a "risky" through ball than a speculative long-shot, a cross too early, or a dribble away from goal when others were open. Exceptionally "dribbly" players sometimes have both (I do this with Araujo up front), but that's a very rare exception, based partly on his lack of passing/creativity/teamwork. As you can see, he gets lots of goals and still gets a few assists.

[SCIAG]

No, no, no. For hard tackling the top 4 attributes should be positioning, tackling, anticipation and decisions. A player could have every single stat you've listed yet if his decision making is not high enough he'll risk losing a foul regardless of whether he has the stats you listed or not.

I think you've missed out the most important one there. For me, concentration is the most important attribute when it comes to making a forceful tackle without fouling an opponent. I have two centre backs who are very similar attributes wise, but one is noticeably better at tackling (16 to 12) and the other has noticeably better concentration (19 to 14). The one with higher concentration is very good at timing forceful tackles to nick the ball away without or at least before touching the man.

I also wouldn't like to underestimate the role bravery plays, especially higher up the pitch where you can afford to give away a foul. If a player isn't brave, he probably won't be keen enough to get stuck in, and might go in halfheartedly.

There's a relationship between the force behind a tackle and the timing of all, though not always of course. From the FM07 manual (the last time a detailed manual was given...):

Easy: Your players will be cautious when challenging for the ball. They will only make tackles they are sure they can win in order to avoid picking up injuries or bookings

Hard: Your players will hit their opponents hard when trying to win the ball away from their opponents. If there's a slight chance of your players coming away with the ball, they will attempt the tackle.

That makes it quite clear that "easy" tackling will lead to players waiting for the right moment, and "hard" tackling will lead to them throwing themselves in whenever they have a chance of winning the ball. It's also just common sense that a player who is told to throw himself strongly into tackles will make more tackles than someone who is told to stay on their feet and make low-risk challenges.

[Cleon]

I think you've missed out the most important one there. For me, concentration is the most important attribute when it comes to making a forceful tackle without fouling an opponent. I have two centre backs who are very similar attributes wise, but one is noticeably better at tackling (16 to 12) and the other has noticeably better concentration (19 to 14). The one with higher concentration is very good at timing forceful tackles to nick the ball away without or at least before touching the man.

I also wouldn't like to underestimate the role bravery plays, especially higher up the pitch where you can afford to give away a foul. If a player isn't brave, he probably won't be keen enough to get stuck in, and might go in halfheartedly.

There's a relationship between the force behind a tackle and the timing of all, though not always of course. From the FM07 manual (the last time a detailed manual was given...):

That makes it quite clear that "easy" tackling will lead to players waiting for the right moment, and "hard" tackling will lead to them throwing themselves in whenever they have a chance of winning the ball. It's also just common sense that a player who is told to throw himself strongly into tackles will make more tackles than someone who is told to stay on their feet and make low-risk challenges.

Yups you are right I can't argue with that . Not sure how I left concentration off the list as I've mentioned it loads of how important it is, in the attributes guide. I blame the hot weather, making me want to be outside

Surprised no-one else pulled me up on it either

[SCIAG]

Hot weather? In the north?

[Cleon]

Hot weather? In the north?

Only had 4 cold days here in the last 3/4 weeks

[Wilson123]

Can I just put the question then - if you have a poor decision making/passing/technique forward, the last thing you want is him anywhere near your goal for fear of him making a stupid decision, lacking the ability to play a quality ball and giving a sloppy pass away.

So to contrast the teams mentality, would you give him out and out attacking rights, or would you set 'Run from deep' to rarely?

[Cleon]

Can I just put the question then - if you have a poor decision making/passing/technique forward, the last thing you want is him anywhere near your goal for fear of him making a stupid decision, lacking the ability to play a quality ball and giving a sloppy pass away.

So to contrast the teams mentality, would you give him out and out attacking rights, or would you set 'Run from deep' to rarely?

If you have a stiriker near your goal then yu are doing something wrong. You shouldn't even bring them back for set pieces.

[Nevrin]

Actually, the logic in the TC and ME sets the highest FC with low or no Run from Deep for this very reason. The ME uses mentality to recognise which FC is the higher one and keeps him high, whereas lower mentality FCs drop deeper and thus have Run from Deep as a setting.

wwfan, did you mean that if I have set the high mentality striker to rarely run from deep, he will always stay up front without dropping deep where as to run from deep frequently, he will drop back all the time and always move forward when attacking?

[SCIAG]

If you have a stiriker near your goal then yu are doing something wrong. You shouldn't even bring them back for set pieces.

There's no need to be so sweeping. Are you saying that Mourinho was wrong to bring Drogba back to defend corners? Strikers are often very strong in the air, and are excellent defensively when there is a ball to be won. It wasn't as if Chelsea suffered offensively from Drogba coming back, because Mourinho could leave three other players up the pitch.

I saw Portsmouth play Reading on Saturday, and Portsmouth had Dave Kitson sit about thirty yards from goal when they were defending, leaving their left winger (Dave Nugent) nearer the half way line ready to counter attack. Kitson blocked two or three shots and added to the numbers at the back, making it much harder for Reading to score. They were still a threat on the counter as Nugent was prepared to exploit Reading's slow defence, which Kitson (a better finisher than Nugent and better in the air, but not as quick) couldn't have done.

[Cleon]

There's no need to be so sweeping. Are you saying that Mourinho was wrong to bring Drogba back to defend corners? Strikers are often very strong in the air, and are excellent defensively when there is a ball to be won. It wasn't as if Chelsea suffered offensively from Drogba coming back, because Mourinho could leave three other players up the pitch.

I saw Portsmouth play Reading on Saturday, and Portsmouth had Dave Kitson sit about thirty yards from goal when they were defending, leaving their left winger (Dave Nugent) nearer the half way line ready to counter attack. Kitson blocked two or three shots and added to the numbers at the back, making it much harder for Reading to score. They were still a threat on the counter as Nugent was prepared to exploit Reading's slow defence, which Kitson (a better finisher than Nugent and better in the air, but not as quick) couldn't have done.

The game works quite different to real life though, don't make the mistake of thinking FM works as things do in real life because it doesn't for most aspects.. I wasn't making a sweeping statement, I was speaking from a gaming point. Which is a bad move. If you bring the striker back to defend set pieces then when the ball is cleared you have no-one upfront, regardless of the mentalities of the rest of your squad. I'l even show you an example of a goal I scored which wouldn't have happened if the striker was brought back.

This is why you should not bring a striker back to defend on FM imo

How to Counter Attack

I posted highlights of one of my Tottenham games where I beat Manchester United 6-2 in a few threads last week. Since then I’ve had a lot of questions via PM asking me how the last goal was scored and asking how I managed to have so many advanced players in front of the Manchester United defence. So I’ve decided to explain exactly how move worked. For those of you unfamiliar with what I am talking about, here are the highlights of the game in question. It’s the last goal which I scored what raised the questions.

[video=youtube;WLJlfPhn7Wg]

The highlight’s don’t do the whole move justice though as you don’t see how the move started. So we are going to have a look at how the move was made and discuss the attributes used by each player involved. As well as looking at their tactical instructions and seeing how they had an impact on the move.

The move actually started down next to my corner flag from a quick throw that Evra took.

He attempted to throw the ball quickly to Wayne Rooney. However Sandro, my defensive midfielder had other ideas.

Rooney as started to swivel around already. And he is attempting to take the path highlighted by the yellow arrow in the screenshot. Sandro my defensive minded midfielder is facing the ball and attempting to get in front of Wayne Rooney to make the interception. This is highlighted by the blue arrow.

Sandro showed great anticipation to guess what Rooney would do next. He then showed good strength, acceleration, decisions and excellent positioning. If you remember from the settings further up in the thread you’ll know he was set to tight mark. As the throwing was taken quickly he didn’t have the chance to get tight to Rooney at first. But because he has good positioning, marking, anticipation, workrate, tackling and decisions he knew exactly what he was doing. He knew he could win the ball with an interception. He read the move excellently as soon as Rooney started to pivot he anticipated his run and made the interception. The concentration attributes also helped him stay focused.

In the above screenshot you can see that Sandro won the ball and that Rooney is facing the wrong way. Now if you study the screenshot for a few seconds you can see I have facing the right way and looking to break out quick. This is highlighted by the black arrows. The blue arrow represents the pass option that Sandro will make. The yellow arrow shows that Defoe should get on to any ball played in that area because he has a good few yards start on his marker.

Now after Sandro wins the ball there is only one thing on his mind and that is to pass the ball. He is instructed to get hold up the ball which he does. He has a quick look around and assesses the situation then chooses to pass to Defoe. This is why it’s vital he has mixed passing setting so he can decide the type of pass he makes.

For this part of the move he shows good concentration, composure, technique, decisions and a good final pass.

[Cleon]

This next screenshot is vital to the move;

The ball reached Defoe with ease. As you can see Ferdinand is on the wrong side of Defoe and a few yards away from him to make an attempt to tackle. Look at all the Manchester United players behind the ball. They have a total of 8 players who are out of the game by one simple pass from Sandro. Now look at my players busting a gut to get forward. This is real counter attacking football and you can see the effect that the tactical settings are having on the players. It’s quickly becoming a 5 vs. 2 moves. Even behind the yellow line you can see that other players are also trying to join up and moving forward quickly.

Defoe showed great off the ball movement to give him that extra few yards over his marker. Good anticipation to anticipate the movement of the ball. A good first touch to keep the ball near him and good composure because he knows Ferdinand is very close to him.

Then his physical attributes come into play. He shows great agility and balance to be able to turn and accelerate away then his pace takes over.

Now look this screenshot;

There is no doubt about it in Defoe’s mind, he is driving forward at full pace down the flank. Rio Ferdinand the defender chasing him is well aware of the threat from the other player’s around and isn’t rushing into a tackle. Rio’s best chance is to force him into the corner and hope he can narrow his passing options. But Defoe has the advantage here and he knows it, that’s why he is driving forward.

Pace, determination, dribbling, technique and decisions are the forefront attributes working hard here.

The next screenshot;

Defoe was never going to the by-line, do you remember why? He was set to cross from deep. He is also set to direct passing which means he should only pass backwards as a last resort. Because he is set to a normal creative freedom setting he decided to make the correct decision at the exact right time. If it was set lower he might have not made the decision until a lot later. If it was set higher he might have made the decision far too early.

Here it was all about making the right choice, so the decision attribute here was what triggered what happened next. Then it was flair, creativity, technique and the actual passing attributes that were used next.

The next screenshot;

Once VDV receives the ball there is only one outcome. But if he did choose to pass he could lay it off right for Lennon or tap it left for Bale. However the form he’s in, he takes it himself and slots it past the keeper. Before he receives the ball he shows great off the ball movement and you can see the run from deep option working.

VDV used his creative freedom here and that allowed him to make what he thought the correct decision would be. I think if his team work attribute was higher he might have actually laid the pass off instead of taking the shot. But because his teamwork attribute is only 14 he is quite selfish in front of goal at times. This can be a good or bad thing at times.

He also used anticipation, decisions, flair, creativity, technique, concentration, composure and finishing at some stage during the move.

This move highlights exactly how the counter attacking option works. It commits players forward when you win the ball back and hits the opponents on the break quickly. It works even better when your team is blessed with pace and acceleration.

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This is taken from a different thread but you can see why I think it's important you don't bring a striker back.

[wwfan]

wwfan, did you mean that if I have set the high mentality striker to rarely run from deep, he will always stay up front without dropping deep where as to run from deep frequently, he will drop back all the time and always move forward when attacking?

The high mentality striker will always stay high if you have two strikers. Runs from Deep will be a pretty irrelevant instruction for him either way. However, the lower mentality striker will drop deeper, so how often he Runs from Deep will definitely change playing patterns.

The game works quite different to real life though, don't make the mistake of thinking FM works as things do in real life because it doesn't for most aspects.. I wasn't making a sweeping statement, I was speaking from a gaming point. Which is a bad move. If you bring the striker back to defend set pieces then when the ball is cleared you have no-one upfront, regardless of the mentalities of the rest of your squad. I'l even show you an example of a goal I scored which wouldn't have happened if the striker was brought back.

I have to agree with SCIAG here. This is but one method of playing. I break with my left winger and AMC and bring my powerful, good in the air FC back for corners. Logic is that he is super quick and should be able to catch up with moves anyway, and that the other two players, also quick but having the most flair and creativity, are more likely to make something out of nothing when on the break. I may not be as devastating on the counter as you are, but I may not concede as many goals from set pieces as you do either

The only stat that would matter is the difference between us in the goals conceded/scored from these types of situations, which is going to be impossible to work out anyway. Even if we could, we'd then have to decide on whether our defensive set piece routines were of equal calibre, as were our creative moves out of defence, not to mention the randomness in the quality of deliveries from the opposition set pieces.

The key point I am trying to make is that the current ME balances risk v reward better than any previous one. Whatever you choose to do has consequences. I choose to prioritise not conceding, so drag my FC back. Cleon prioritises the quick break, so keeps him forward (as I would too with Defoe, as he's about as much use as a chocolate ashtray in defence).

[Wilson123]

Great piece Cleon, v insightful thanks for sharing! I'm really picking up some of the more details I need for this game - I've only bloody being playing it 13 years lol

I guess the use of specific stats per role can also explain why certain players who don't have overal 'pleasing' stats can play good.

In ref to my comment - wwfan and SCIAG have both touched on my point. I wasn't merely sending my defender back, but for instance Carroll on a corner is far more use in the air that he is on the break. In the anticipation of a break I generally leave 3 if not 4 players up in the idea that the AI is forced to defend these players and so can't overload the box too much.

But my original point was one that related to if a striker found himself in the centre circle; perhaps on a counter? If he has poor decision and passing, or if he is playing with a lower mentality that he would be suited to - is there an increased liklihood that he will receive a ball and whilst naturally wanting to get forward on the ball perhaps chooses a wrong defensive pass that concedes possession?

I guess I'm asking can you affect players performance through mentality? Asking C.Ronaldo to play a defensive game would cause unnatural bouts of play which would surely lead to more errors?