Something wrong with this picture?

[Elrithral]

But I never said, at any point in this thread, that actually happened.

I think you have missed the point.

I think it's the other way round, you've missed his point. He was asking if you'd checked that, not telling you that you're wrong, just giving you a possible reason. It's up to you to go and check it and then tell us whether it is the case or not.

[Wee Aja]

Any player who turns down £3500 per week and a place in a Premiership team, and signs for £5 per week with an obscure team such as Dundalk needs their head looked at. How anyone can say this is perfectly acceptable is beyond me.

[Elrithral]

Any player who turns down £3500 per week and a place in a Premiership team, and signs for £5 per week with an obscure team such as Dundalk needs their head looked at. How anyone can say this is perfectly acceptable is beyond me.

It's not only acceptable, but perfectly realistic IF the player has signed pro terms with Dundalk. He will be tied into that contract and have to refuse all offers until his pro contract begins. As yet dking hasn't told us if this is the case or not.

[Wee Aja]

It's not only acceptable, but perfectly realistic IF the player has signed pro terms with Dundalk. He will be tied into that contract and have to refuse all offers until his pro contract begins. As yet dking hasn't told us if this is the case or not.

Ah.. I see. That would make sense

I'd like the OP to clarify that then.

[Bongo-Bongo]

It's not only acceptable, but perfectly realistic IF the player has signed pro terms with Dundalk. He will be tied into that contract and have to refuse all offers until his pro contract begins. As yet dking hasn't told us if this is the case or not.

I'm pretty sure thats not true. I'm pretty sure that the only thing that signing a pre-contract deal does is stop clubs from poaching youngsters without havng to go through the club. If the player is signed to a pre-contract, he is still entitled to move if both his current club and the interested club agree a transfer fee before hand. He doesn't have to wait until he turns pro to move.

[Elrithral]

Of course, if a fee is invovled then the contract can be broken, with the club who holds the contracts consent, that's a given. I didn't see the relevance of raising such a moot point, as this discussion is regards offering a player a contract in the hope that they leave their club and join you, not offering a player a contract, with the player's club's consent.

[Bongo-Bongo]

Well then please explain how this is acceptable and realistic? He offered the player a contract. That we know for certain. So whether the player is on a pre contract or not is meaningless. There is nothing stopping the player from moving. He doesn't have to refuse any offers, and as has pretty much already been established, no sane, aspiring footballer would turn down the contract offered by dking in place of the one from Dundalk.

[Elrithral]

Very annoying as I will sign him, but instead of paying 60k for him I will now have to pay alot more.

The OP has not agreed a price with the players club, he was offering the player a contract because the player will appear as available until he signs his pro terms. That's why it's possible/acceptable/realistic.

- The player has signed a pre contract agreement, you offer him a contract in the hope that he breaks contract and all you'll have to do is pay a nominal tribunal fee e.g. £60k as the OP stated. That's illegal, so the player will refuse.

- The player has signed a pre contract agreement, you offer his club £200k and get to offer him a contract, he can accept because he has permission to break his contract.

Simples.

All we need now is for the OP to tell us whether or not he made a bid for the player and whether or not the player had signed a pre contract, then we can detemrine whether or not it is unrealistic.

[Bongo-Bongo]

The OP has not agreed a price with the players club, he was offering the player a contract because the player will appear as available until he signs his pro terms. That's why it's possible/acceptable/realistic.

- The player has signed a pre contract agreement, you offer him a contract in the hope that he breaks contract and all you'll have to do is pay a nominal tribunal fee e.g. £60k as the OP stated. That's illegal, so the player will refuse.

- The player has signed a pre contract agreement, you offer his club £200k and get to offer him a contract, he can accept because he has permission to break his contract.

Simples.

All we need now is for the OP to tell us whether or not he made a bid for the player and whether or not the player had signed a pre contract, then we can detemrine whether or not it is unrealistic.

If the player has already signed a pre contract deal in the game, you can't just offer him a contract. The game won't allow you to. You have to make an offer to the club. There is no other way to make a bid for the player otherwise. So it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference as to whether he has signed this or not.

[Wee Aja]

I'm pretty sure thats not true. I'm pretty sure that the only thing that signing a pre-contract deal does is stop clubs from poaching youngsters without havng to go through the club. If the player is signed to a pre-contract, he is still entitled to move if both his current club and the interested club agree a transfer fee before hand. He doesn't have to wait until he turns pro to move.

Yes, that's true. Stop messing with my mind, Elrithral.

My original point about it being totally unacceptable still stands.

[Elrithral]

Fair enough, but I 100% disagree and know for a fact that you can offer them a contract without maiking an offer up to the date that they sign the pro contract. 100% sure of it and it's been discussed to death on here.

[ndebergerac]

Fair enough, but I 100% disagree and know for a fact that you can offer them a contract without maiking an offer up to the date that they sign the pro contract. 100% sure of it and it's been discussed to death on here.

Just tested this...and he's right. Players who have signed agreements to go pro with their team can still be "approached to sign", which is obviously wrong.

Now, all we need is for the OP to confirm whether he approached the player in question or had an offer accepted by Dundalk and then negotiated a contract. If it is the latter, then perhaps his pro contract is good enought to deter him from moving.

[Bongo-Bongo]

Just tested this...and he's right. There's no logic to what the player in question is doing. Players who have signed agreements to go pro with their team can still be "approached to sign", which is obviously wrong.

Interesting. I've searched for several players who have signed provisional contracts but I've not been able to "approach to sign" a single one of them. These players have been from various leagues including England, Spain, Italy and Republic of Ireland.

[dking]

I think it's the other way round, you've missed his point. He was asking if you'd checked that, not telling you that you're wrong, just giving you a possible reason. It's up to you to go and check it and then tell us whether it is the case or not.

For clarification, he hadn't signed anything when I first tried to sign him, he simply chose them over us for his contract.

[dking]

The OP has not agreed a price with the players club, he was offering the player a contract because the player will appear as available until he signs his pro terms. That's why it's possible/acceptable/realistic.

- The player has signed a pre contract agreement, you offer him a contract in the hope that he breaks contract and all you'll have to do is pay a nominal tribunal fee e.g. £60k as the OP stated. That's illegal, so the player will refuse.

- The player has signed a pre contract agreement, you offer his club £200k and get to offer him a contract, he can accept because he has permission to break his contract.

Simples.

All we need now is for the OP to tell us whether or not he made a bid for the player and whether or not the player had signed a pre contract, then we can detemrine whether or not it is unrealistic.

For clarification, I have tried to buy him after he signed his contract, the bid has been accepted and he refuses a whole lot of cash!

Let me clear this up (bear with me, i sunk a few rum and cokes). I tried signing him on a pre-contract and he chose them over me, I then made bids for him which were accepted, and he was interested, so I offered him a lucrative contract which was way above what he actually asked for, and he rejects me every time.

[I\'mTheRulerOfAllTheWorld]

Any chance of a screenshot of the players contract screen?

[Ezequiel_Lavezzi]

Dking, why do you cry when people make "personal attacks" on you when half the time, you are the first person to indulge in that practice?

A lot of people have meerly posted their opinion - be it wrong or right - and all you have done is posted full of emotion and anger over a minor (yes minor) bug.

Some young players aren't ready to move or can't move due to whatever reason coded in the game.

[dking]

Dking, why do you cry when people make "personal attacks" on you when half the time, you are the first person to indulge in that practice?

A lot of people have meerly posted their opinion - be it wrong or right - and all you have done is posted full of emotion and anger over a minor (yes minor) bug.

Some young players aren't ready to move or can't move due to whatever reason coded in the game.

Wow.

What thread have you been reading? emotion and anger...are you a mentalist?

Why would you feel the need to post on this thread with nothing at all to offer it apart from a personal attack on me? I find it extremely hypocritical and rather bizarre, that you are trying to descend a perfectly good thread, which raises a good question, into a bashing session.

"some young players aren't ready to move or can't move due due to whatever reason coded in the game"

Well, thanks for adding that wonderful piece of advice to this thread, who would have thought it eh. I guess after learning that, this thread has been pointless and may as well close. Great post, Thanks lavezzi.

[BoyledShark22]

Idiotic SI defenders are always looking to make excuses for the game.

But, it's a bug. No sane 16 year old would turn down 200-300k total in contract, and a move to a big English club and a chance to make a name for himself, so he could make 5 euros a week at a small unknown club. It's 100% unrealistic and there is no logically argument to rebut this.

[I\'mTheRulerOfAllTheWorld]

I think it's a problem with the transfer system rather than with the player's decision. I have experienced the same problem many times and each time the player involved had a pre-contract agreement with his current club. Although can you (dking) clarify how old the player is/was at the time of him rejecting your offer? Because you said that the player was 16 years old but then said that he has already signed a pro contract, which I don't think is possible.

[Wee Aja]

I think it's a problem with the transfer system rather than with the player's decision.

I think that too.

[dking]

I think it's a problem with the transfer system rather than with the player's decision. I have experienced the same problem many times and each time the player involved had a pre-contract agreement with his current club. Although can you (dking) clarify how old the player is/was at the time of him rejecting your offer? Because you said that the player was 16 years old but then said that he has already signed a pro contract' date=' which I don't think is possible.[/quote']

He was 15 or 16.

If I said some where he had signed pro-contract it must have been a typo. He has signed a pre-contract.

As I said in another post, when I first attempted to sign him, there was no pre-contract in place with his club.

[I\'mTheRulerOfAllTheWorld]

For clarification, I have tried to buy him after he signed his contract,

Ah, I misread this as you saying he'd signed a pro contract.

Definitely a problem with the transfer system then.

[tingting]

Some of the reasons given out here justifying the "bug" is really annoying...do you mean to say that majority of the youngsters (U17s) reject offers from some of the top clubs in the world with a substantial pay raise just because they want to go out to a family picnic or sit in the laps of their grandma? Then maybe someone will have to tell this "fact" to Wenger who is wasting lots of money scouring for youth players around the world. Big clubs have a large number of foreign youth players in their team...maybe they kidnapped them since the players were unwilling to sign a big contract with a big club in order to walk their dogs in the park beside their house or wanted to go to a prom night with their girlfriend?

Some of the comparisons given out here are hilarious. Are you people saying that 17 time Italian champions and 7 time European champions AC Milan or Fulham or Manchester City who are an established team in the most popular league in the world are on the same footing as dundalk. And unless you people have actually seen and compared Van der Sar's pre Jan 2005 and post Jan 2005 contract then i am 99.9999999999999999999999999% sure that the keeper signed a new contract in order to put in the clause, and not to show any loyalty, because there were just talks that United were interested and had not yet made a concrete bid.

Everytime someone comes up with a valid bug/error in the game, (s)he is immediately swamped with posts saying that happens in life. Are you seriously suggesting that the gameplay in FM is that advanced? It is the best game currently in the market, but it is no way that realistic.

[Heddlo2009]

Wow.

What thread have you been reading? emotion and anger...are you a mentalist?

Why would you feel the need to post on this thread with nothing at all to offer it apart from a personal attack on me? I find it extremely hypocritical and rather bizarre, that you are trying to descend a perfectly good thread, which raises a good question, into a bashing session.

"some young players aren't ready to move or can't move due due to whatever reason coded in the game"

Well, thanks for adding that wonderful piece of advice to this thread, who would have thought it eh. I guess after learning that, this thread has been pointless and may as well close. Great post, Thanks lavezzi.

You really are trying to be funny and belittle people aren't you? Are you bullied at school and trying to make up for it on here? Poor little sausage. As Lavezzi said, it's a minor bug, he didn't want to sign for you for what ever reason personal to the player. Whether it's in a game or not there's no point crying over spilt milk, just sign a similar player who wants to play for an arrogant, bullied plum such as yourself.

Now, turn of the porn and get a life and stop worrying about a minor and pretty unimportant bug such as this.

Laters potaters!!

[Geordieboy52]

Got to agree with the OP in this one, maybe not a bug, but there is not a single person on the planet who would turn down £3500 a week and £100k handshake to stay on a fiver a week, not one single person!!!

Kaka turned down £500k a week at Man City, plus clauses and bonuses and then went to Madrid for £145,000. That's a turn up for the books eh?

[Bongo-Bongo]

Kaka turned down £500k a week at Man City, plus clauses and bonuses and then went to Madrid for £145,000. That's a turn up for the books eh?

As has already been stated, the situation with Kaka is entirely different. At AC he was part of one of the most famous and successful teams in the world. He was already minted (supposedley the second richest man in Italy) and had no need to join the worlds latest upstarts with nothing other then money to draw him there. And instead he joined one of the few clubs bigger then he was already at.

Thats nothing like a kid from a tiny team in a tiny league turning down a lucrative contract with one of the worlds biggest clubs with the chance to train in world class facilities and instead, signing a small at a club where he could potentially stagnate.

[Vic Taylor]

As has already been stated, the situation with Kaka is entirely different. At AC he was part of one of the most famous and successful teams in the world. He was already minted (supposedley the second richest man in Italy) and had no need to join the worlds latest upstarts with nothing other then money to draw him there. And instead he joined one of the few clubs bigger then he was already at.

Thats nothing like a kid from a tiny team in a tiny league turning down a lucrative contract with one of the worlds biggest clubs with the chance to train in world class facilities and instead, signing a small at a club where he could potentially stagnate.

Maybe he simple didn't want to move?

I mean, he's only 16, and therefore still at school. Would you want to move that far when you were only 16?

[Mike J]

I get it quite a lot, even at AC Milan. Some players just don't seem to want to leave their clubs at a young age, especially if they're at foreign clubs. Is that realistic? Could be. It's not like it's the same for every player - some are only too happy to move, even at 15.

Another point to note is that the money you're offering is a future contract - he won't be getting £3500 a week as soon as you sign him - it'll only be the standard youth wage until he turns either 17 or 18 (can't remember which just now). If his Dundalk pro-contract is going to be £1000 or more I can sort of see the reason for not moving.

I think the bug here is more one of communication than anything. There should be some reason given for turning down an offer otherwise all we're left to do is speculate.

[Bongo-Bongo]

Maybe he simple didn't want to move?

I mean, he's only 16, and therefore still at school. Would you want to move that far when you were only 16?

And as I said earlier, IRL, it's becoming more and more common for players to leave their own country and often, their family at similar ages, to move to clubs in different countries where it's quite possible they don't even speak the same language. I doubt there are many aspiring footballers out there who would turn down the chance to join one of the worlds biggest clubs and develop in the career that they have chosen if they are currently at a club where staying there meant they might not get anywhere.

[Vic Taylor]

And as I said earlier, IRL, it's becoming more and more common for players to leave their own country and often, their family at similar ages, to move to clubs in different countries where it's quite possible they don't even speak the same language. I doubt there are many aspiring footballers out there who would turn down the chance to join one of the worlds biggest clubs and develop in the career that they have chosen if they are currently at a club where staying there meant they might not get anywhere.

You have a point.

But the OP has given us one incident, and based his opinion that the game's unrealistic off of that.

Irl having one player who doesn't wish to move from his lowly little team to a bigger one would be nothing special.

So why is it here?

[dking]

Wow.

What thread have you been reading? emotion and anger...are you a mentalist?

Why would you feel the need to post on this thread with nothing at all to offer it apart from a personal attack on me? I find it extremely hypocritical and rather bizarre, that you are trying to descend a perfectly good thread, which raises a good question, into a bashing session.

You really are trying to be funny and belittle people aren't you? Are you bullied at school and trying to make up for it on here? Poor little sausage. As Lavezzi said, it's a minor bug, he didn't want to sign for you for what ever reason personal to the player. Whether it's in a game or not there's no point crying over spilt milk, just sign a similar player who wants to play for an arrogant, bullied plum such as yourself.

Now, turn of the porn and get a life and stop worrying about a minor and pretty unimportant bug such as this.

Laters potaters!!

So, I'm an Emotional, angry, belittling, homo, sausage, plum, porn watching, victim, with crap jose mourihno management skills, and with no life to speak of eh? (I left out arrogant and potatoe!)

That's a whole lot of name calling from you and lavezzi, and I think you should both stop posting on this thread now as you wont get any more responses from me.

How old are you.

[dking]

You have a point.

But the OP has given us one incident, and based his opinion that the game's unrealistic off of that.

Irl having one player who doesn't wish to move from his lowly little team to a bigger one would be nothing special.

So why is it here?

I would say it was pretty amazing in today's climate of money and fame fueled footballers. It's almost refreshing to see, if it didn't happen to me!

[Vic Taylor]

I would say it was pretty amazing in today's climate of money and fame fueled footballers. It's almost refreshing to see, if it didn't happen to me!

Pretty unusual, yes, but not unrealistic.

[tak]

I think the issue is simple. If this player does not want to move for some reason (although highly ambitious and not very loyal), how is that decided by the game's algorithm?

It is all very good and easy coming up with excuses for this serious malfunction, but how are they justified/explained in terms of game mechanisms and code?

Is there a "hie loves his mates at school" attribute in the game? Is there a "his grandmother makes a nice cup of tea" one? What is there that makes this particular player reject every young footballer's dream? If it is just a random thing appearing every now and then just to make the game "more interesting" or something, a random thing that defies existing attributes, it would be nice if we got an official answer as to how that works.

The fairytale excuses etc. are really irrelevant.

[Vic Taylor]

I think the issue is simple. If this player does not want to move for some reason (although highly ambitious and not very loyal), how is that decided by the game's algorithm?

It is all very good and easy coming up with excuses for this serious malfunction, but how are they justified/explained in terms of game mechanisms and code?

Is there a "hie loves his mates at school" attribute in the game? Is there a "his grandmother makes a nice cup of tea" one? What is there that makes this particular player reject every young footballer's dream? If it is just a random thing appearing every now and then just to make the game "more interesting" or something, a random thing that defies existing attributes, it would be nice if we got an official answer as to how that works.

The fairytale excuses etc. are really irrelevant.

Okay, simply put:

Irl are there instances where big clubs offer youngsters contracts, which are far greater than what the kid is currently earning? Yes.

Irl are there kids who simply reject these offers, not because they "love their friends at school", or to annoy you personally, but because they simply don't want to move? Yes.

They are 16 year olds who have a life where they grew up, and even the offer of football at a top European club doesn't automatically mean they'll drop everything and come running.

[tak]

OK Vic, but how is that coded in the game? This is the question here. Is it just random?

[Vic Taylor]

OK Vic, but how is that coded in the game? This is the question here. Is it just random?

Ask SI, not me. I didn't make the game.

[tak]

So you don't know how it works yet you were very quick to explain it. Excellent.

[Vic Taylor]

So you don't know how it works yet you were very quick to explain it. Excellent.

I understand coding quite well, thank you.

The OP asked for possible explanations. After reading the thread, the only one left was the one I posted.

I really don't see the problem.

[tak]

So, every now and then the game will defy ambition and loyalty to simulate a rare situation? I don't understand coding so I would love your input here...

[Vic Taylor]

So, every now and then the game will defy ambition and loyalty to simulate a rare situation? I don't understand coding so I would love your input here...

As it emulates rl, I would think you'd be happy the game was realistic...

Turns out though, you change your opinion depending on who you want to argue with.

Coding is very complicated, with hundreds of variables, and easy to get wrong. One mistake and everything that follows the mistake is thrown off. SI have done very well to produce this game. You can say "fan-boy" all you like but, as you've admitted to not having a clue about coding, that would just prove you to be hypocritical.

[tak]

Thank you for explaining how it works...

[Ohanzee]

I agree that in real life this would probably not be so weird. His mum and dad might not even let him move, although in most cases they'd probably welcome the chance if their kid wanted it.

However I do find it weird in FM, cause I've never had it happen to me. I've signed very many 14-16 year olds in many saves (probably around 300-400 in all FM2010 saves I played) and never have I seen one reject a contract once offered. Unless they where already at a bigger club or a rival.

So based on personal experience (with the game not real life) I do find it weird that this kid would reject a contract from Liverpool in FM.

[Vic Taylor]

Thank you for explaining how it works...

Do I need to repeat myself? Turns out I do...

Ask SI' date=' not me. I didn't make the game.[/quote']

[tak]

If we have to ask SI about how this "feature" works, what makes you certain it is a feature and not a bug?

[Vic Taylor]

If we have to ask SI about how this "feature" works, what makes you certain it is a feature and not a bug?

Because it happens irl.

[tak]

I thought you were going to say "because SI has confirmed it is a feature". Your answer is only speculation.

[Vic Taylor]

I thought you were going to say "because SI has confirmed it is a feature". Your answer is only speculation.

As is yours. Happy?

[tak]

As is my what? I didn't give an explanation. I am looking for one. Is it coded or is it a bug? And if it s coded how is it decided when it will occur?