4-1-2-1-2 Complete Dominance

[Corkey]

has anyone experienced any success with this tactic, while being a weak team?

[mischievous]

has anyone experienced any success with this tactic, while being a weak team?

I'm gonna try this over the holidays with Plymouth Argyle

[mischievous]

I can't seems to save the shouts as well. It does not appear in a new match. Could someone please help to post the tactic with the shouts saved.

I think you can't save shouts. I think you have to use them in every single game

[cragswfc]

some people love it on here as well http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/f72/complete-dominance-t26042.html#post267007

[cragswfc]

and here http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/downloads.php?do=file&id=1534

http://www.thedugout.tv/community/showthread.php?t=63619

[reli515]

yeah i have tried tests with and without OI's i think the difference is very plain to see regarding the space the opp gets when they aren't on even when my team man and tight marks and i never really beleived in OI's either as it annoys me putting them on every game.

I'll give this a try as well. Been trying the tactic with AC milan and it's worked great so far, scoring loads and conceding very few, but (using OI) I did have 3 defenders close down a winger who crossed into a nearly empty box for a goal once, so I'll see if this helps.

[Big H]

yeah i have tried tests with and without OI's i think the difference is very plain to see regarding the space the opp gets when they aren't on even when my team man and tight marks and i never really beleived in OI's either as it annoys me putting them on every game.

Thanks mate.

[cragswfc]

has anyone experienced any success with this tactic, while being a weak team?

ive used it with sheff wed had good results with it. now using it with rotherham and still the results keep coimg the way i like should be in league 1 by end of march

[Corkey]

ive used it with sheff wed had good results with it. now using it with rotherham and still the results keep coimg the way i like should be in league 1 by end of march

So are you saying it is successful? How are you doing in the league?

[Dinu]

I guess he wouldnt like to be relegated, so I read that as in "heading towards a promotion".

[cragswfc]

So are you saying it is successful? How are you doing in the league?

im top 11 points in front of notts county and a staggering 21 points ahead of 4 place dag & red

so i think it successful but only if you use oi n the shouts

[Dinu]

Anyone else having injury problems with that tactic? Pretty sure I had less problems in two seasons before I started using this one. So I wonder if I am just unlucky or if its the tactic?!

[Corkey]

im top 11 points in front of notts county and a staggering 21 points ahead of 4 place dag & red

so i think it successful but only if you use oi n the shouts

Okeyy thanks alot Cragswfc

So are the OI's:

Tight Marking and Close Down on Striker, Wingers and Central Midfielders?

[Mr Hough]

Okeyy thanks alot Cragswfc

So are the OI's:

Tight Marking and Close Down on Striker, Wingers and Central Midfielders?

not central mid players wide mid players (L/R) also if the team is playing and ACM use the OI's on him too

[Corkey]

not central mid players wide mid players (L/R) also if the team is playing and ACM use the OI's on him too

Okeyy so just so I'm doing it 100% correct....

Close Down: ST, AMC, AMR/L and MR/L

Tight Mark: ST, AMC, AMR/L and MR/L

[Mr Hough]

Okeyy so just so I'm doing it 100% correct....

Close Down: ST, AMC, AMR/L and MR/L

Tight Mark: ST, AMC, AMR/L and MR/L

spot on mate

[Corkey]

spot on mate

Okay, Thank you

I'm going to give it a go with PSV.....

I shall report back on how I get on

[rbnrbn]

Just thought id say ive also had some fairly consistent success with this tactic. Yet one problem i do have with the tactic is the amount of chances that it creates/saved by the keeper when shooting close range/one on one.

Having read the many helpful posts from WWfan in the "superkeeper thread" its now agreed that when shooting close range from the centre of the net its pretty much impossible to score (BUG). And this being a narrow tactic it tends to create alot of those chances. Maybe this could be improved, because if it were this would undoubtedly be a "super tactic"

For example in my last game each team had 18 shots, i had 9 CCCs and converted 4, while the oppostions had 4 CCCs and also converted all 4.

[cragswfc]

Okay, Thank you

I'm going to give it a go with PSV.....

I shall report back on how I get on

ull will hammer Dutch league with it

[Corkey]

ull will hammer Dutch league with it

lets hope so.... :thup:

[Dinu]

As 10.2 has problems with the one on ones, especially with those from the center of the pitch, wouldnt it be an idea to move some of them to the right or left side? Using one striker to the central position while having the other one more to the left or right side?!

[Mr Hough]

Just thought id say ive also had some fairly consistent success with this tactic. Yet one problem i do have with the tactic is the amount of chances that it creates/saved by the keeper when shooting close range/one on one.

Having read the many helpful posts from WWfan in the "superkeeper thread" its now agreed that when shooting close range from the centre of the net its pretty much impossible to score (BUG). And this being a narrow tactic it tends to create alot of those chances. Maybe this could be improved, because if it were this would undoubtedly be a "super tactic"

For example in my last game each team had 18 shots, i had 9 CCCs and converted 4, while the oppostions had 4 CCCs and also converted all 4.

I've never seen this thread but after taking what you've said in, i have just litrally moved the width slider right up to wide and my strikers who have been really hard to score have just got one each and also much better ratings.

try it see if it works for you

[Glassy80]

I'm giving this a go in my 2nd season with Bolton. I've got a pretty strong side, so it should be a good test for it. Its the 3rd season of the prem, I came 3rd with Spurs using a different one an got into the CL and was given £4.5mil to spend so asked for more, got rejected, gave them an ultimatum then got jacked in and offered the Bolton job.

So far 9 games, 5 wins, 2 draws and 2 losses. 19 scored, 13 conceded. Not bad, I leak a lot of goals as you can see, but i've got a strong defence and a decent DMC. Cant really judge it until the full season has finished. The games are always big scoring games, but I rarely get clean sheets.

I'm on 10.2 by the way.

[Mr Hough]

I'm giving this a go in my 2nd season with Bolton. I've got a pretty strong side, so it should be a good test for it. Its the 3rd season of the prem, I came 3rd with Spurs using a different one an got into the CL and was given £4.5mil to spend so asked for more, got rejected, gave them an ultimatum then got jacked in and offered the Bolton job.

So far 9 games, 5 wins, 2 draws and 2 losses. 19 scored, 13 conceded. Not bad, I leak a lot of goals as you can see, but i've got a strong defence and a decent DMC. Cant really judge it until the full season has finished. The games are always big scoring games, but I rarely get clean sheets.

I'm on 10.2 by the way.

are you doing the OI and Shouts?

[Glassy80]

Hello mate. Yes, using them. I think the issue is i've got 6/7 new players, they just need to bed in. 5 of them dont speak English which effects it as well. I've just beat Stoke and Spurs so im 3rd with a game in hand, so its looking handy at the moment. I'll keep you up to date fella.

[Corkey]

Mr Hough or Cragswfc or Anyone for that matter....

do you use the OI's on a team that are using WBR/L?

[qualitystreet]

The advantage of being so many teams at once is that you can try out different tactics at the same time.

I have used this tactic with both Chelsea and Norwich and its simply the best ever tactic.

[Kevinmatt]

no just the instructions e told you mate

[Corkey]

no just the instructions e told you mate

Okay thanks

Also I have a bit of money to spend, and I can afford maybe one good player, so what do you regard as the most important position?

[Kevinmatt]

i say, DM, and AM, for me that was mate

[Penfold^]

I'm having good success with this in my second season with West Ham. I have used the instructions in the opening post for all games so far and my record so far is 18 played, 12 won, 4 drawn and 2 lost (chelsea & everton).

Diamanti in the AMC role has been fantastic and is scoring and setting up a lot of goals.

I will carry on using this tatic until the end of the season and post some screenies of how i have done. Good job

[cragswfc]

Mr Hough or Cragswfc or Anyone for that matter....

do you use the OI's on a team that are using WBR/L?

yes i do because they to me are like winger's + i been putting it on fullbacks as well because if you watch some games some full backs over lap really good so i do it to them as well. hope it works for you

[Corkey]

yes i do because they to me are like winger's + i been putting it on fullbacks as well because if you watch some games some full backs over lap really good so i do it to them as well. hope it works for you

Okay then, I may use this

would you agree with Kevinmatt, saying that the DM and AM are the most important positions in this tactic?

[cragswfc]

yeah but, i would also say a good speedy deff centre as well i ant got 1 at min but nearly every goal i let in my deff get burnt off

[rbnrbn]

Okay thanks

Also I have a bit of money to spend, and I can afford maybe one good player, so what do you regard as the most important position?

a fast DM, a must.

[Night Gaunt]

Just thought id say ive also had some fairly consistent success with this tactic. Yet one problem i do have with the tactic is the amount of chances that it creates/saved by the keeper when shooting close range/one on one.

Having read the many helpful posts from WWfan in the "superkeeper thread" its now agreed that when shooting close range from the centre of the net its pretty much impossible to score (BUG). And this being a narrow tactic it tends to create alot of those chances. Maybe this could be improved, because if it were this would undoubtedly be a "super tactic"

For example in my last game each team had 18 shots, i had 9 CCCs and converted 4, while the oppostions had 4 CCCs and also converted all 4.

I've never seen this thread but after taking what you've said in, i have just litrally moved the width slider right up to wide and my strikers who have been really hard to score have just got one each and also much better ratings.

try it see if it works for you

I'll give it a try too... also, considering what rbnrbn pointed out, I realized another likely reason why my poacher is scoring regularly while the AF isn't: Cassano has the very useful "likes to round keeper" PPM; what this PPM does is often making it so the attacker tries to move to the right or left before shooting, to approach the net from a better, diagonal angle. This does sometimes make him waste precious time the defenders might use to catch him, yeah, but it also often lets him "work around the superkeeper bug". It was already a very good PPM in previous versions, but I guess now with 10.2 it should be regarded as a true life saver. Don't know if it was already debated and analyzed in the thread you mentioned, but if that's not the case you could give it a try.

Oh, and another change I would suggest: the tactic sets your keeper to pass the ball to your right central defender. If your defender is very good (and especially I would say if he has a very good concentration rating) this is probably not an issue, but I noticed that in my case it was often suicidal: the defender gets the ball, wastes time thinking what to do with it, then here comes the opposition striker with a tackle, ball lost, and almost immediate shot. With a faulty defence I suggest to set one of your full backs as the target for goalkeeper passes: after an action and a save from you keeper, the opposition attackers are usually in the mid of the pitch, and as such the full backs have much more space - and time - to begin the manoeuvre without fearing any sudden comeback from them.

[cragswfc]

this is of a site i put it on a guy on there did this test

To any one who is having success with this tactic on 10.2, are you using the OI and the shouts from the start of the match?

I have been using this tactic with them and been doing poor, so i decided to do a test i saved it before a Away game and played it 4 times, One with the OI and Shouts/One with Just OI/One with just shouts, & finally One with no tweaking at all.

With just OI we drew 3-3, we were pushed back most of the game, and 2nd best.

With OI & shouts we drew 1-1, but were not dominate at all.

With just shouts we lost 2-0, Awful performance. Won't be trying that again.

And finaly with no tweaking we won 2-0, Could have been more, they never got out of their half apart from a few counter attacks. We were camped in their half and truly dominated.

So im thinking that to just leave this tactic the way it is will be best with no tweaking what so ever? Just wondering if any one is having success with the Shouts & OI with the 10.2 tactic.

---------- Post added at 03:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:38 AM ----------

Since i have stopped using the OI's and shouts i have gone on a great run.

Quoted Message:

Drew 3-3 Away at Fulham (this was the test game, went with the first result i got 3-3. The other results were just tests)

Drew 2-2 Home West Ham

Won 2-0 Away Sheff Utd

Drew 3-3 Away Aston Villa (Was 3-1 down with 15 mins to go)

Won 1-0 Home Spurs

Some good results their, this is my first season back up in the Premier.

Sheff Utd away was a big one, both me and Sheff Utd had only won 1 game each(But i had drawn 7 games and Sheff Utd had only drawn 1) But this was a big result, we were sitting in 19th and Sheff Utd in 20th, I was without a win in 7 games. So a morale boosting win.

Aston Villa away was a very good result, they were sitting in 4th and we were 17th. Was 3-1 down by the 52 min and up untill the 75 min it was wave after wave of Villa attack, untill my subsitute striker scored in the 75th min and then again in the 78th min to make it 3-3.

And then it was us with wave after wave of attack & maybe should have won the game.

But saying that, The amount of shots my keeper saved when we was 3-1 down from all the Villa pressure, i guess we were lucky to get the draw.

And Spurs at home what more can i say than Fantastic. They had won the Premier League and FA Cup last season on my save and when we played them they had won their last 7 games straight in the league, But we got an early goal and managed to hang on.

Plus at half time Redknap used all his subs and in the 61st min it backfired on him as Woodgate got injured, so they played the rest of the game with 10 men.

But we still had to fight hard to hang on and maybe could have got a 2nd near the end when Spurs were throwing every one forwad.

Overall Spurs had 0 ccc 8 shots on target but all from long range, Our defense did good that every shot on target was a long ranged shot.

This is a great tactic for 10.2, Will play on more tomorrow night and fingers crossed for more of the same.

Thanks for sharing.

[Mr Hough]

first game without using the OI's and shouts i won 4-2 with my boro team.

The opp had more shots and chances but so did we strangely, maybe cos we weren't concentrating on tight marking or closing down we have more freedom to carve out chances.

I'll keep using without the OI and Shouts and i'll post back after 10 or so games

[Night Gaunt]

this is of a site i put it on a guy on there did this test

To any one who is having success with this tactic on 10.2, are you using the OI and the shouts from the start of the match?

I have been using this tactic with them and been doing poor, so i decided to do a test i saved it before a Away game and played it 4 times, One with the OI and Shouts/One with Just OI/One with just shouts, & finally One with no tweaking at all.

(MEGACUT...)

Trying the various combinations only once isn't really representative: too many things based on sheer chance can influence the whole unfolding of a match, and lead you to misleading conclusions.

However, what I believe we often forget is what actually are OIs and shouts doing: they usually just adjust some sliders under the hood, either for the whole team (shouts) or for single players (or better said for specific interactions between one of your players and one of the opponent, the OIs). As such usually a different slider setting before the match could - and should - give just about the same results. Problem is, sometimes it's not so clear what sliders a certain shout references to. Some are pretty obvious, such let's say the shoot from distance shout (however exactly it's written in english, I haven't the game on hand atm ), which obviously just touches the relative slider in each player settings, others are definitely quite the mistery and, truth be told, some could actually reference to "invisible sliders" you can't actually set for yourself before the match. Ideally, anyway, they were introduced to let you fine tune and apply quick changes to the tactic without having to go back to the full tactics screen to obtain the very same result.

Now, this leads to another assumption, and I would say serious issue in the new patch IMO: the so-called "re-ranking" issue. In fact, I've got to say after further testing, even this nice tactic which was giving me definitely nice results suddenly went horribly wrong. From an average rating of 8+, for istance, my AMC suddenly became useless in each and every match, and the very same happened to many other key players, without any sensible reason (morale, fitness, and so on). A couple matches with bad luck could happen, of course, but this is definitely not the case.

As such I began testing even more tactics, and doing what we know should be absolutely unadvisable: changing tactics completely in the middle of a season. It should lead your team to struggle for at least 4-5 matches before adapting to the new style of play, shouldn't it?

Well, that's not what happens... actually what happens - consistently - to me is the exact opposite: once I put in the new tactic I get great results - and playing - for about 5 matches, making me hope to have finally struck gold, then the AI begins to adapt and quickly your tactic becomes complete rubbish.

Of course the AI adapting to you is - and has always been - a feature, but to this ridiculous extent it becomes definitely a bug. To the extent that I would definitely say it's actually advisable to completely change your tactical approach every 5-10 games... realistic, uh? Just note this: from testing, I discovered that if every 5 games or so I change from this wingless tactic to a completely different one based on wide wingers - and then back after 5 more games - I could easily keep winning and winning.

Well, rantings apart, this also means a lot regarding the original topic about OIs and shouts: as I said these do change your tactics, though often not *much*, and they are added and selected once the match framework has already been loaded and calculated. See where I'm going? The AI takes your tactics and elaborates a counter tactic that would give it more chances to effectively oppose you (and yes, I'm pretty sure it "cheats" too from time to time, as the long "normalizing" shots bug in 10.1 was doing), but OIs and shouts fall outside this calculation being modifications on the go, and as such they can "surprise" the engine and have an effect similar - though of course smaller - to the use of a completely different tactic.

Again, all this should be a "feature" of the game, trying to represent reality the best it can, however the "normalizing", re-ranking features to keep results on a "realistic average" and to emulate intelligent AI managers have become so extreme that they end up doing the opposite, breaking the immersion and the actual connection to a realistic seasonal outcome. Simply because there's no actual "feedback" as to why things are suddenly going wrong for no sensible reason. It feels as the engine is really cheating, and frustrates you. What's the point in working hard to make a good tactic, if it actually doesn't matter? Every tactic which isn't completely crazy (and maybe even some which are... after all the overload approach of this very one would look a bit crazy from an "in real" point of view) tends to work well enough for a while and then breaks: no point in developing a personal style of playing, a certain tactical approach, the results are just about the same, and after a while you have to change again.

Anyway, in the end what I came to believe is that the reason why I've been quite more successful (well, "longer" rather than "more") with this tactic is exactly that: relying quite heavily on some specific shouts and OIs to balance some issues in the starting settings, the re-ranking effect takes longer before becoming noticeable to the point you feel everything has gone awry (simply because it does its calculations on a tactic which isn't exactly the one your actually using once the match really begins).

So, an even more extensive use of shouts could probably make the lifetime of an effective tactic quite longer... but to tell the truth I hardly have the patience to bother too much with 'em. I like to have to make a couple quick changes on the go, such as a couple modifications to defend a result in the late stages of a match, this helps feeling in control of the team rather than watching from the terraces, but I can't invest an hour for each game fine tuning things. Well, actually I could if the results then were to be satisfying (not necessarily "winning", just reasonable, making sense), but all this trouble to then often just see the superkeeper (or super-stupid strikers?) poke fun at you is a bit too much

[cragswfc]

ive tired it with my sheff wed save won my first game 3-1 v p'bourgh then lost to Brighton fa cup then lost 6-3 to dingles ( barnsley)

so i have to agree with you with players having more players to roam around more not good.

[godzilu]

I am Liverpool. Second season. The first season i have managed to be on the second place using a set of tactics fit for away home etc.

In this second season i have started using your tactic including the friendlies, and i have got great results in them. 10-0, 7-0, etc.

Deep in the season, this tactic still doesn't work very good against big teams. Man City kicked my as 4-1 at Anfield, they had 20 shots at goal, i had 5. My Liverpool team is almost the same with the starting one one season ago, my budget is crap. Problem is that i was injury free, so i had quit a good line up. Against small teams, is true, i usually get 15 20 shots, and they have 5 6, although at the start of the season i have drawn my first two games to small teams, due to i guess strikers missfiring.

As transfers, i have just bought Badstuber from Bayern for 5 millions, Deco and Van Nistelrooy on free transfers, and Damien Le Tallec on loan.

Is there any tweak i should use? I am playing 10.2 with the tactic on the first page.

EDIT:

Liverpool - Manchester United

Liverpool line up

Reina

Johnson Insua Caragher Badstuber

Mascherano

Aquilani Riera

Gerrard

Kuyt Torres

All at 100% at the start of the game ( when playing the Citizens, most of them were 95 96 ). This time i have rested all the big guns against Galatasary in the CL ( and lost 1 0 of course away ) so i have them fully fit available for MU.

Guess what?

5-0 at half time... i don't even have the patience for the final wistle. It seems that my players were tired when playing the City, or they were still adapting to the tactic or City happened to get the right tactic against me. And...In the second season being, i managed to get top of the table after a few more games, without any major transfer. As you can see, Badstuber is the only new face in the line up, and Agger or Skrtel at this point ar the same or better then Badstuber.

Cheers

[Mr Hough]

i've been doing what i normally do but not putting the OI's on the mid players just putting them on the strikers.

first game doing this i beat C palace away from home 4-0 they had 3 shots all game 0 on target.

I had 20 10 on target and 6 CCC's

i'm gonna just put them on the strikers for abit and see how that devolps

[Niall76]

has anyone experienced any success with this tactic, while being a weak team?

I'm doing quite well with my Nizhniy Novgorod team in the Russian First Division. The players are virtually all free transfers. Since changing to this tactic, I've gone from 11 to 5th with a record of P9 W5 D2 L2 F18 A10

I'm really pleased with it.

[cragswfc]

this is the league table as it stand now trying different shouts and oi so i think the tactic over all is brilliant, but with the original oi shouts i think well, im 100% i would be in top 2

[Big H]

So far so good for me Mr Hough - well done again. Just out of interest, whose was the orginal tactic that you have tweaked? Or is it completely yours?

Result so far as Notts County (League 2) hadn't kept a clean sheet for 5 games prior to trying this tactic

Aldershot 4-0 (Away)

Darlington 2-0 (Away)

Hereford 1-0 (Home)

Accrington 1-1 (Away)

Bournemouth 4-0 (Home)

Rotherham 4-0 (Away)

[Mr Hough]

So far so good for me Mr Hough - well done again. Just out of interest, whose was the orginal tactic that you have tweaked? Or is it completely yours?

Result so far as Notts County (League 2) hadn't kept a clean sheet for 5 games prior to trying this tactic

Aldershot 4-0 (Away)

Darlington 2-0 (Away)

Hereford 1-0 (Home)

Accrington 1-1 (Away)

Bournemouth 4-0 (Home)

Rotherham 4-0 (Away)

no this one is completly mine i have only changed a few things on version 10.2 from 10.1.

The 10.1 version was mainly my own but i used some of the china unbeaten 2's attacking ability but everything else in that tactic was mine

[godzilu]

Is it me, or the players get really tired when using this tactic? What training methods do you use?

[Mr Hough]

Is it me, or the players get really tired when using this tactic? What training methods do you use?

tuggs training mate

[johnny mac]

Unreal tactic mate, Started with Arsenal won champs lg in 1st yr and evryting in 2nd yr, also unbeaten in da 2nd season in the league... Then started a game with leeds and got back 2 back promotions but unfortunatly the game crashed as i was about to start the 3rd season. Then played a game with Spain lst nyt and went unbeaten all the way to the world cup... Great Tactic, Maybe a bit 2 good lol

[Big H]

no this one is completly mine i have only changed a few things on version 10.2 from 10.1.

The 10.1 version was mainly my own but i used some of the china unbeaten 2's attacking ability but everything else in that tactic was mine

You've done a great job mate - congratulations!!