Fitness Levels

[robzilla]

Thank you for your explination. I appreciate it, but still I'll do some research to see if I can find what is the real order of fitness.

That shouldn't take too long:

1. Go to your squad screen

2. Select "Fitness" view

3. Sort them by fitness column

4. See what order they are in

:D

[theres only one ALI DIA!]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/w/west_bromwich_albion/8201628.stm

A quote from above link from West Brom boss Di Matteo on player he had signed:

"He's a quick player with Premier League experience. He will add a bit of width to our team and he will make us more dangerous going forward."

Thomas, who spent time on trial with Hull and Wolves, is back in training after suffering a hamstring injury whilst playing for Albion's local rivals in a friendly.

"He's fully fit, but in terms of match fitness, I don't think he's quite ready for 90 minutes yet," added Di Matteo.

[MaCeR]

Does anyone have the manual at hands?

[nev147]

Does anyone have the manual at hands?

Yes.......

[nev147]

Does anyone have the manual at hands?

I've had a quick look and it does not say.

[Shottaz]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/w/west_bromwich_albion/8201628.stm

A quote from above link from West Brom boss Di Matteo on player he had signed:

"He's a quick player with Premier League experience. He will add a bit of width to our team and he will make us more dangerous going forward."

Thomas, who spent time on trial with Hull and Wolves, is back in training after suffering a hamstring injury whilst playing for Albion's local rivals in a friendly.

"He's fully fit, but in terms of match fitness, I don't think he's quite ready for 90 minutes yet," added Di Matteo.

Robby D-mat is a Swiss-born Italian and English isn't his first language. While I understand his sentiment, I would rather focus purely on how the FM engine models it rather than debate weather a player can be match ready or at a peak of physical fitness.

So a player who is superb or fully is never as game-ready as someone who is match?!? This really doesn't sit well in my head.

So in a team of 22, if one 11 were all Fully 100% and one team were match 96% you would do better playinng the Match 96% team? This is basically what is being said at the moment.

[robzilla]

So a player who is superb or fully is never as game-ready as someone who is match?!? This really doesn't sit well in my head.

So in a team of 22, if one 11 were all Fully 100% and one team were match 96% you would do better playinng the Match 96% team? This is basically what is being said at the moment.

AAAAAAAAAAAaaaargh no, superb is better than match fit. Superb describes someone who is match fit and in top physical condition - this is the absolute peak of where a player can be.

Then comes match fit. This someone who is fully fit and has the extra edge of match sharpness which comes from playing matches.

*** So to clarify, "superb" and "match fit" players are match fit ***

Then its fully fit, which means fully physically fit but lacking that extra edge which comes which from playing matches.

To answer your question, yes it would be better playing the match fit bunch than the fully fit bunch. Except I wouldn't do that because I would want all my fully fit players to get game time so they acheive match fitness, but that's beside the point.

[Shottaz]

Cheers Rob,

I think you are right there but it's still not 100% proof, purely because it's still your interpretation from what you have witnessed + a bit of logic on your part and not SI's official 'this is how it is' statement. So, to conclude, it's now...

Lacking<Fully<Match<Superb <---In terms of player performance?

[nev147]

When a player has been injured/tried/or jaded then once they have recovered they become fully fit, i.e. they are over there mishap. Then the player is fully fit and can play football, but may not last 90 minutes bacause he has not got the match sharpness and needs one or two games under his belt to become match fit. When a player is match fit he is ready to be placed in the team for the long-term. Thats my take on it.

[robzilla]

So, to conclude, it's now...

Lacking<Fully<Match<Superb <---In terms of player performance?

Yes - in terms of player fitness, not necessarily performace, that depends on many things.

Cheers Rob,

I think you are right there but it's still not 100% proof, purely because it's still your interpretation from what you have witnessed + a bit of logic on your part and not SI's official 'this is how it is' statement.

OK I can accept that, and I also wish someone from SI would get involved and clear this up for everyone, as I'm pretty sure there are still loads of people who fail to understand it.

[nev147]

Lacking<Fully<Match<Superb <---In terms of player performance?

I would agree.

Note: there are fitness conditions under lacking match practice but I think that is for another day! lol

[Shottaz]

I would agree.

Note: there are fitness conditions under lacking match practice but I think that is for another day! lol

After more study of this, I am 100% that it goes...

Lacking<Match<Fully/Superb

My keeper plays every game, got to 100% fitness and is fully fit, proving that match is below fully. I still cant 100% which is better between superb and fully though.

[robzilla]

After more study of this, I am 100% that it goes...

Lacking<Match<Fully/Superb

My keeper plays every game, got to 100% fitness and is fully fit, proving that match is below fully. I still cant 100% which is better between superb and fully though.

I give up.

[Cougar2010]

After more study of this, I am 100% that it goes...

Lacking<Match<Fully/Superb

My keeper plays every game, got to 100% fitness and is fully fit, proving that match is below fully. I still cant 100% which is better between superb and fully though.

Condition & match fitness are two separate items although linked.

[Althaz]

I thought everybody knew this already, but it goes Superb >= Fully > Match > the rest.

Fully indicates the players match sharpness and physical condition are both at 100% or at least very close to.

Superb means the same thing, however I believe that only certain players can achieve this level of fitness. If I were to guess I would say that it is based probably on a player's professionalism stat (hidden) but that is a wild stab in the dark.

Match fit means that the player has good match sharpness and decent physical fitness (both over ~85%)

[Jam_Man]

I thought everybody knew this already, but it goes Superb >= Fully > Match > the rest.

That dosent tie up with how the levels are when you sort them descending though per the screenshots in this very thread.

Ignoring all english definitions the order is:

1. Superb - the pinnacle of fitness a player can be in

2. Match Fit - Fit and ready for action

3. Fully Fit - At full fitness but lacking match practice and sharpness.

You can argue other orders but as this is how it sorts Id suggest thats proof enough of how it is....

[Shottaz]

I thought everybody knew this already, but it goes Superb >= Fully > Match > the rest.

Fully indicates the players match sharpness and physical condition are both at 100% or at least very close to.

Superb means the same thing, however I believe that only certain players can achieve this level of fitness. If I were to guess I would say that it is based probably on a player's professionalism stat (hidden) but that is a wild stab in the dark.

Match fit means that the player has good match sharpness and decent physical fitness (both over ~85%)

This makes perfect sense to me, sorry for bumping this the other day but the example with my Goalkeeper proved what was said originally was wrong.

Cheers Althaz, where were you 60 posts ago!

[crouchaldinho]

I also believe that Althaz is spot on.

Fully is clearly when match fitness and physical condition are very high (physical condition must be 100% in my experience).

Match fitness comes after that, which is physical condition and match sharpness both high (but physical condition is not 100%).

Then for the 'superb condition', the best of all, I actually believe Althaz has guessed correctly. When I looked through my squad to see who had this, it was players with high ambition or professionalism (often both).

Regards,

C.

[celebritykiller]

Match fit is clearly higher than fully fit, as you can still be "match fit" when at 100% fitness (otherwise it would have changed to fully fit if that was the next stage up)

Hope this makes sense.

[Shottaz]

Match fit is clearly higher than fully fit, as you can still be "match fit" when at 100% fitness (otherwise it would have changed to fully fit if that was the next stage up)

Hope this makes sense.

Typical recovery goes like this

After game....

83% Tired

85% Tired

90% Match

94% Match

98% Match

100% Match

100% Match

100% Fully

100% Fully

This is just an example for people claiming the above quote is correct.

[Jam_Man]

Typical recovery goes like this

After game....

83% Tired

85% Tired

90% Match

94% Match

98% Match

100% Match

100% Match

100% Fully

100% Fully

This is just an example for people claiming the above quote is correct.

Just because Fully is 100% and match is 90% doesnt mean that fully is the better state to be in. It could just mean that the player hasnt played any games so lacks that extra edge.

The fact it sorts under match fitness to me says its more important to be match fit than fully fit...

eg Player A is injured for 5 months, gets back to Fully Fit 100% and player B played 2 days ago and is Match Fit at 93%

Player B is in the better condition overall at Match Fit....

[Shottaz]

Imagine twin right and left backs for a game on saturday...

Jon Twin played last saturday and the sat before that and is 100% Fully

Joe Twin played last saturday and the sat before that and is 100% Match

Explain in this case how match would be better...

[Jam_Man]

Does that happen though ?if two players had played exactly same amount of games then I cant see how one would differ.

in your example Id suggest Jon needed more games...

100% match fit guy will have games under his belt and that "edge".

Would be nice for SI to clarify but as the sort puts match edge above fully thats what Im going on.

[Shottaz]

Does that happen though ?if two players had played exactly same amount of games then I cant see how one would differ.

in your example Id suggest Jon needed more games...

100% match fit guy will have games under his belt and that "edge".

Would be nice for SI to clarify but as the sort puts match edge above fully thats what Im going on.

Does my keeper who has played 15 games need more match practice then as he is 100% fully??

[crouchaldinho]

Does that happen though ?if two players had played exactly same amount of games then I cant see how one would differ.

in your example Id suggest Jon needed more games...

100% match fit guy will have games under his belt and that "edge".

Would be nice for SI to clarify but as the sort puts match edge above fully thats what Im going on.

That's got to be wrong.

Some of my players who play every week are 'fully fit'.

Jon Twin, who is fully fit, is in his peak condition and ready for the match.

Joe Twin, who is match fit, is not quite at his maximum condition, but he is match sharp.

That's how I would read it.

Regards,

C.

[Jam_Man]

Does my keeper who has played 15 games need more match practice then as he is 100% fully??

Are any keepers show as match fit?

Seeing as they arent running not sure of the relevance and does any keeper have the same fitness level as an outfield player? Play him in midfield for a while see what happens lol.

Bottom line is, you sort by fitness and match is above fully so Ill take that as a given until SI confirm otherwise.

[Jam_Man]

That's got to be wrong.

Some of my players who play every week are 'fully fit'.

Jon Twin, who is fully fit, is in his peak condition and ready for the match.

Joe Twin, who is match fit, is not quite at his maximum condition, but he is match sharp.

That's how I would read it.

Regards,

C.

So why does match fit appear above fully fit in sort order?

What level of fitness would a player be who has been injured for 6 months and is now raring to go but has no games?

For me match fit is a player who has games under his belt, which is more useful than a fresh player who hasnt played.

Until SI confirm either way Ill take my own take on it and the fact thats how it sorts to be the answer although it may be the wrong one!

[crouchaldinho]

Right, to solve this, I have checked the settings using an old save game from FM08. I have downloaded the FMM editor and I have changed the values of one player to see what happens.

In superb condition = physical condition and match fitness up at maximum.

Fully fit = physical condition and match fitness up at maximum.

Match fit = match fitness and physical condition 90% or more.

I could find no difference between 'in superb condition' and 'fully fit' other than the former tended to be the label for players who had reached 100% fitness a few days after a match, with 'fully fit' generally describing someone who was at full fitness but maybe hadn't played for a bit longer. Otherwise I could see no differences even when changing mental attributes.

I would assume this is the same on FM09.

This was only a quick test so maybe somebody will have time to expand upon it.

Regards,

C.

[Shottaz]

Right, to solve this, I have checked the settings using an old save game from FM08. I have downloaded the FMM editor and I have changed the values of one player to see what happens.

In superb condition = physical condition and match fitness up at maximum.

Fully fit = physical condition and match fitness up at maximum.

Match fit = match fitness and physical condition 90% or more.

I could find no difference between 'in superb condition' and 'fully fit' other than the former tended to be the label for players who had reached 100% fitness a few days after a match, with 'fully fit' generally describing someone who was at full fitness but maybe hadn't played for a bit longer. Otherwise I could see no differences even when changing mental attributes.

I would assume this is the same on FM09.

This was only a quick test so maybe somebody will have time to expand upon it.

Regards,

C.

Thanks Crouchy D, Seems to have solved the issue.

[Cougar2010]

That then fits in with what most people have been trying to say all along.

I haven't played recently to test it but I suspected "Superb Condition" = "Match Fit" + 100%.

The main questions are what causes "Fully Fit" to become "Match Fit"/"Superb Condition" and is there any difference within the match engine associated with this.

[Jam_Man]

In which case the sort function is wrong.......

[Shottaz]

'The main questions are what causes "Fully Fit" to become "Match Fit"'

playing a game and recovering back to match fit from tired?

[Cougar2010]

'The main questions are what causes "Fully Fit" to become "Match Fit"'

playing a game and recovering back to match fit from tired?

I'll have a go at testing it next time I play but I suspect it will be x number of games/minutes within x timeframe.

[crouchaldinho]

'The main questions are what causes "Fully Fit" to become "Match Fit"'

playing a game and recovering back to match fit from tired?

Fully fit becomes match fit when physical condition drops below 100% or match fitness drops below maximum rating, or both.

No idea about 'In Superb Condition'. I took two players, one of which had 'In Superb Condition' and the other who had 'fully fit' and they had identical fitness ratings for everything. So I'm totally confused.

The only different was that one player within the last week, while the other one hadn't played for over a week. So that was my immediate hypothesis. Changing mental stats or natural fitness ratings also made no difference.

Regards,

C.

[crouchaldinho]

I'll have a go at testing it next time I play but I suspect it will be x number of games/minutes within x timeframe.

Yes, I think that as probably the difference between 'in superb condition' and 'fully fit'.

But 'match' fit is as I have described above.

C.

[lam]

If anyone has access to FMscout, you should be able to test this.

Check on jadedness for players vs the ingame title.

LAM

[Noidenous]

This could explain why some FM players constantly have injury runs year-in year-out, even after fully patching each installment.

They've not been using their fittest players, believing that "Match Fit" is more reliable than "Fully Fit".

[TheMister]

Crouch - I'm with you.

Simply because, IIRC, when players are going through pre-season or coming back from an injury they cycle through lacking-match-fully; regardless of how FM sorts this in a menu, although that in itself is misleading.