English Premier Division Data discussion

2 minutes ago, george_nufc said:

As far as I'm aware any injuries that occurred before the end of the transfer window are included as clubs still have time to replace these players.

That's madness if true - the point stands, you have the same injuries at best, or a few more most likely. Plus your players are further behind thanks to no pre-season, less tactical familiarity. For those of us who play with no first transfer windows it's even madder.

Let's take Diego Carlos, starting with a major achilles injury - nothing stopping Tyrone Mings also picking one up in pre-season too.

Former Red Devils u23 assistant Neil Ryan, is missing as he is currently a manager for England u18

Edited November 8, 2022 by roussos
Miss

On 01/11/2022 at 13:48, cocoadavid said:

Arsenal's Saliba's composure is 13 in the game,which I think is not high enough. One of his main strengths is how he can keep his cool with the ball at his feet and he remains calm even if he is pressured by multiple opponents at the same time. 

Multiple sources, such as the Athletic and Skysports, highlight that his composure is one of his skills that makes him so good. If you rewatch Arsenal's matches or search twitter you can find multiple examples when he was extremely calm in dangerous situations.

Sources:

https://theathletic.com/3652063/2022/10/04/william-saliba-arsenal-tottenham/

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/12717881/william-saliba-allows-arsenal-to-move-up-the-pitch-and-dominate-opponents-as-evolution-under-mikel-arteta-continues

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/rio-ferdinand-arsenal-william-saliba-28133635

 

Recommendation:

Increase Saliba's composure to 16.

 

Thank you,

David

I just want to add a few more sources to back up my opinion.

Mikel Arteta, the one who might know Saliba's qualities best, said:

"I think the way he has established himself, the composure and leadership that he's shown on the pitch – it's done in a very natural way without any flashlights, just being himself. Being very quiet but, at the same time, very confident."

(https://www.arsenal.com/news/every-word-artetas-pre-liverpool-presser)

 

The Athletic's Arsenal correspondants:

"His composure and his coolness at the back of the team is blowing my mind."

(Handbrake Off - the Athletic's Arsenal podcast)

 

Video showcasing his composure: 

21 minutes ago, cocoadavid said:

I just want to add a few more sources to back up my opinion.

Mikel Arteta, the one who might know Saliba's qualities best, said:

"I think the way he has established himself, the composure and leadership that he's shown on the pitch – it's done in a very natural way without any flashlights, just being himself. Being very quiet but, at the same time, very confident."

(https://www.arsenal.com/news/every-word-artetas-pre-liverpool-presser)

 

The Athletic's Arsenal correspondants:

"His composure and his coolness at the back of the team is blowing my mind."

(Handbrake Off - the Athletic's Arsenal podcast)

 

Video showcasing his composure: 

Thanks for your input, @cocoadavid, we will take into account your well-presented case when updating the ratings.

10 hours ago, roussos said:

Former Red Devils u23 assistant Neil Ryan, is missing as he is currently a manager for England u18

Thanks @roussos - Neil Ryan is not extracted into FM2023 because the youngest England international age group that is represented is the U19 team.

12 hours ago, llama3 said:

That's madness if true - the point stands, you have the same injuries at best, or a few more most likely. Plus your players are further behind thanks to no pre-season, less tactical familiarity. For those of us who play with no first transfer windows it's even madder.

Let's take Diego Carlos, starting with a major achilles injury - nothing stopping Tyrone Mings also picking one up in pre-season too.

Hi @llama3 - you make a valid point, but there is no perfect solution for the injury date cut-off point.  Clubs that have, in real life, brought in players before the end of the transfer window because of long-term injuries that may have been suffered since season start, will start FM with those recent acquisitions.

On 07/11/2022 at 12:16, Platinum said:

Hi, Arteta and a lot of Arsenal players dont have the 2020 Community Shield win on their profile 

Thanks very much, @Platinum - you are quite correct; sorry about that.  I will get those added in the database.

Should Divock Origi not be on Liverpool's favoured persons list? 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2022/jun/09/goodbye-divock-origi-liverpool-never-to-be-forgotten-cult-hero#:~:text=Divock joins the special list,or play hundreds of games.

1 minute ago, yifanwang99 said:

Should Divock Origi not be on Liverpool's favoured persons list? 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2022/jun/09/goodbye-divock-origi-liverpool-never-to-be-forgotten-cult-hero#:~:text=Divock joins the special list,or play hundreds of games.

Yep, fair point

Bought this up here about a week ago but never got any response.. Can't fathom how Azpilicueta isn't on Chelsea favourite persons list. Bloke has literally won everything possible with us over 10 years and is the epitome of professionalism. Played all across the backline and never moaned, displaced Ashley Cole at LB and given us at least a 7/10 every week for 10 years lol. Most of us hold him in the same regard as JT, Lampard and Big Pete, if not unquestionably one tier below. 

Edited November 8, 2022 by danbucks

39 minutes ago, danbucks said:

Bought this up here about a week ago but never got any response.. Can't fathom how Azpilicueta isn't on Chelsea favourite persons list. Bloke has literally won everything possible with us over 10 years and is the epitome of professionalism. Played all across the backline and never moaned, displaced Ashley Cole at LB and given us at least a 7/10 every week for 10 years lol. Most of us hold him in the same regard as JT, Lampard and Big Pete, if not unquestionably one tier below. 

Datalock was over two weeks ago so your opinion couldn't have been taken in to account unfortunately. Hopefully it will be considered for the next DB update

7 hours ago, Pete Sottrel said:

Hi @llama3 - you make a valid point, but there is no perfect solution for the injury date cut-off point.  Clubs that have, in real life, brought in players before the end of the transfer window because of long-term injuries that may have been suffered since season start, will start FM with those recent acquisitions.

Hi Pete,

That's fair that replacements for long term injuries are a factor too. I think personally that I'd say start of the season - rather than transfer window, but appreciate it's not straightforward.

Hi, according to this news:https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/tottenham-champions-league-squad-confirmed-27918631,

Ben Davies,  classed  as an 'homegrown' player in Champion league squad list, but the game doesn't seem refer to that.

Possibly, there will be a quick update about the players applied to the similar rules?

On 25/10/2022 at 17:23, SL19 said:

Palace's transfer budget is too low.

Palace bid over £25million for Gallagher in the last few days of the window, tried to sign Soumare from Leicester and also made bids for Edwards at Peterborough and Sow from Frankfurt.

Palace also sold Benteke for a few million to DC United.

A budget of £1.7million doesn't add up.

Other then that the Palace data this year has been superb. Props to whoever you got in.

Sorry for the late reply on this one - mix up on my part.

Thanks for flagging, as part of the overhaul we'd missed the transfer budget - for the release it has been raised to 15m.

At least in the logic we'd followed was that whilst there was a large "fund" that was potentially avaiable at the end of the summer window, that would have to come from outside funding based on the state of the last accounts and overall overheads for this season.

Gallagher being a "special" player, he would have warranted exceeding the general amount - i.e. a board request. Also in terms of FFP etc he would have been a low-risk gamble over a five-year contract, due to his ability and there is a likely prospect of selling one of Guehi/Eze/Olise to get funds back into the club within 12 months.

So hopefully as part of the game mechanics 15m is a better starting point, knowing that there are high-wage players the club would likely need to offload be it in the "first window" or after the 22/23 season.

I believe that the finance arrangement for AWB and the loan taken out in Dec '21 are all up to date.

Any other feedback welcome, it was quite a large overhaul this summer, esp. with backroom staff. So there are potential gaps! Will aim to fix for Jan.

Crystal Palace's Mateta needs fixing on player's history. Looks like a double transfer.

15 hours ago, roussos said:

Crystal Palace's Mateta needs fixing on player's history. Looks like a double transfer.

Thanks @roussos - I have amended in the database.

22 hours ago, code-t said:

Arsenal's central midfielders and their technical / offensive stats compared (FM23):

Partey is apparently the least technical, has the worst first touch, he's the second worst dribbler, and has the second worst flair.

He's portrayed as an untechnical defensive player. I don't think this is accurate.

Dribbles attempted / minute vs dribble success

Partey has the best dribble success rate out of the players listed above and a comparable number of dribbles per minute to Odegaard. Elneny is clearly last, then Lokonga then Xhaka.

In fact, of all midfielders in Europe, he has one of the best dribble success rates (he is the yellow dot circled to the bottom right of the image):

Partey has a dedicated youtube video of him just dribbling for 8 minutes

 

There is a level of technique and control shown here that I have not seen in the other midfielders, other than Odegaard. It begins with four consecutive examples of him nutmegging a player. It's almost a year old, so missing his best form which has come this season.

 

Alvaro Romeo (the Spanish correspondent on the totally football show) had this to say about him when he signed for Arsenal (beginning 6m50s):
 

The Athletic on Partey:

The Athletic on Partey again:

The Athletic on Partey one more time:

This twitter thread from the editor of ESPN:

Comparison of FIFA 23 stats:

Seems more accurate.

Normalising the stats to 20 here is the difference compared to FM23:

 

Was looking to do a breakdown on exactly this when i found the time. Do not think i would have broke it down as good as this though. Brilliant breakdown and facts and stats to go with it! Well done @code-t

 

Not to knock the Arsenal researcher because i think they have done a fairly good job in regards to the Arsenal team attributes. But surely the researcher would have watched Arsenal enough to see this themselves, Partey should have been given a boost in terms of technique, dribbling, flair, first touch and tackling attributes. Someone who also plays his way out of trouble as a preferred move too! 

Again though well done @code-t!

 

Harry Maguires 12 pace is very generous

On 01/11/2022 at 13:47, Dan Ormsby said:

Hi there, we don't believe this is correct.  Saliba qualifies as U21 in game, so does not have to be registered for either the Premier League or Europa League in the first season.  He should gain homegrown status if he stays at Arsenal until next season, both in game and real life.

Saliba isn’t indicated to turn home grown in either the player overview information eligibility 

or 

squad homegrown status

 

This is obviously something that needs rectifying

Now that we have completed the first half of the league season I'm returning to address some ratings for Spurs players.

First I still believe the ratings for Hojbjerg, especially his passing/technical ability, are well below his demonstrated performance over an extended time period.

I'll start here:

In terms of progressive passing his two closest peers are Rodri and Thiago. However, Hojbjerg is being rated far worse in attributes related to passing.

I then went to look for more detailed comparison data.

I selected 5 PL players who play in similar positions and roles and who have similar amounts of league minutes/appearances for their clubs (I initially wanted to compare Thiago but he hasn't played nearly as much this season).
https://fbref.com/tiny/T91F6

All of these 5 selected players (Rodri, Rice, Xhaka, Tielemans, Guimaraes) currently have passing related attributes in FM that are significantly higher than Hojbjerg.
When we look at progressive passes using this second source, we see confirmation that Hojbjerg has the most of these peers.

He also ranks:

• Total completion %: 3rd
• Short completion %: 2nd
• Medium completion %: 3rd
• Long completion % 2nd
• Completed passes into opponent box: 2nd
• Goal creating actions per 90: 3rd
• Passes that led to a goal: 2nd

We can also look at his percentile ranks to see how he compares to all other midfielders:
https://fbref.com/en/players/8b04d6c1/scout/11566/Pierre-Hojbjerg-Scouting-Report

22/23 season vs all PL midfielders:


21/22 Season vs. all PL midfielders:




My point here is not to say Hojbjerg is the best passer in the PL. I simply think he should be rated in the passing relevant attributes in a way that reflects his actual peers. If my count is correct, there are currently 53 PL midfielders in FM23 who have been rated higher in the singular "passing" attribute than Hojbjerg.

In summary, I believe Hojbjerg has been generally "miscast" in FM as a slow but strong DM destroyer who has limited passing and technical ability. He's actually a dynamic box to box type midfielder who is not a "creator" but does act as the consistent and trusted distributor for a Top 4 side.

In truth, his tackling statistics are not very strong when compared to many other PL CMs. (He should have that attribute reduced IMHO). His best defensive strengths are in positioning and anticipation. He intercepts the ball often, and blocks shots/passes often. He is not an excellent "ball winner" in the traditional tackling sense. (See attached defensive comps for 21/22 and 22/23).

I'll also add, he's sitting on 4 goals and 4 assists for the season at this point. Something that I think would be hard to see in any current FM save based on his attribute spread.

In order to capture the truth in how Hojbjerg plays, I think his attributes need a complete rework.

Significant improvements in a combination of: Passing, Vision, Decisions, Composure, Anticipation, Positioning, Marking.
Reductions in: Tackling, Strength, Aggression

Happy to discuss. Thanks.

18 hours ago, jere_d said:

Saliba isn’t indicated to turn home grown in either the player overview information eligibility 

or 

squad homegrown status

 

This is obviously something that needs rectifying

Thanks @jere_d - I will look into why this is.  FYI @Dan Ormsby

6 hours ago, The_Batmantis said:

Now that we have completed the first half of the league season I'm returning to address some ratings for Spurs players.

First I still believe the ratings for Hojbjerg, especially his passing/technical ability, are well below his demonstrated performance over an extended time period.

I'll start here:

In terms of progressive passing his two closest peers are Rodri and Thiago. However, Hojbjerg is being rated far worse in attributes related to passing

...

Thank you for all this - I'm going to be taking a look back at the Palace passing in relation to the numbers, so this is all very useful. Even if it's in relation to Spurs.

I'll DM if I have any questions if that's okay?

12 hours ago, code-t said:

One thing about that first graph is that how many progressive passes you make is very contingent on how much possession you have and your position on the pitch and quality of the players around you. The deeper you play the more progressive your passes are and the less possession you have the less opportunity for progressive passes you have. If your team is bad you’re also likely to make less passes. So it’s hard to be completely objective placing all players in different positions (Odegaard plays further forward than Jorginho for instance) and on different teams together. I don’t think all players in the bottom left are automatically worse at passing it could just be that they play for Fulham / Everton etc. 

Even so though Hjoberg’s stats are good 

Sure, I don't disagree with that at all. That's exactly why I tried to find a group of similar players to directly compare their performance in similar roles. Of course, it's not perfect, they don't all exactly play the same way in the same system with the same teammates but the evidence is clear that Hojbjerg is passing at high rates and success with strong outcomes at the same level as players who are being significantly higher rated.

@Sean Blinkhorn

Iker Pozo (28109881) is missing a tick in the loan box from his spell at Rijeka last season

I sent him out on loan and recieved a news message stating that he was a new signing at Man City...

On 09/11/2022 at 19:59, code-t said:

Arsenal's central midfielders and their technical / offensive stats compared (FM23):

 

Partey is apparently the least technical, has the worst first touch, he's the second worst dribbler, and has the second worst flair.

He's portrayed as an untechnical defensive player. I don't think this is accurate.

Dribbles attempted / minute vs dribble success

Partey has the best dribble success rate out of the players listed above and a comparable number of dribbles per minute to Odegaard. Elneny is clearly last, then Lokonga then Xhaka.

 

In fact, of all midfielders in Europe, he has one of the best dribble success rates (he is the yellow dot circled to the bottom right of the image):

 

Partey has a dedicated youtube video of him just dribbling for 8 minutes

 

There is a level of technique and control shown here that I have not seen in the other midfielders, other than Odegaard. It begins with four consecutive examples of him nutmegging a player. It's almost a year old, so missing his best form which has come this season.

Partey has a dribble success rate of a rather poor 60% this season and his attempted dribbles and successful dribbles are well below his marks in previous seasons. I don't think his current play makes the case that these attributes should be significantly upgraded.

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/238940/Show/Thomas-Partey

https://fbref.com/en/players/529f49ab/dom_lg/Thomas-Partey-Domestic-League-Stats

You're saying his best form has come this season, and maybe that's true with other parts of his game, but the numbers don't support that when it comes to dribbling.