Ineffective Wingers

Okay you can call this a stupid question, but I prefer to create a thread rather than post on the 'stupid Qs' thread as I don't think it can be answered by some 1 liners and prefer some discussion analysis rather than that.

So one thing I really notice now in 10.2 patch is how ineffective wingers are.

I remember how wingers performed really well in the old patch as they were able to run with their blistering pace, got one step ahead from the marker and cross from the byline CLEANLY to a striker that heads it home in the penalty area.

What I notice now is how wingers can't perform like that anymore.

They do run.. and fast. The problem is how when they run and hug touchline they can't create a 'small' space to create a good chance for crossing.

Usually they will be followed tightly by the one or two marker and ended up totally blocked from crossing. When they force to cross, it's blocked.

I have tried to combine it wide or narrow pitch but nothing seems to work. (Currently my winger setting is deafult with just a little less creative freedom.)

Anyone care to help me out and share their expertise?

Is it just happening to me or the AI has improved that much?

If you do have similar problem you can just share it here and give eachother insight.

Cheers

It's a little thing called Patch 10.2, which has sadly killed off the Winger for the moment.

It is next to impossible to create a tactic which utilises Wingers (or, in fact, any type of player in the AMR/AML position, including Inside Forwards.)

Patch 10.3 may address this, because as far as I can tell this is the only major issue that needs addressing, alongside a probably free-kick bug.

Yeah I realize how difficult it is to play from wingers or any wide playing really.

Improved AI defense is one thing but killing off winger.. Well that's just sad.

I can't say my Walcott performance is bad but it is certainly under-performing. He assists one per two game (while my AMC assists the most), but most of them comes from through ball instead of crossing.

Hopefully it will certainly be fixed in the new patch..

But for the time being.. there is absolutely no tweak to just 'fix' this? or at least improved it?

Like making it cut inside (well that's inside winger?), cross from mixed or anything?

Off the topic, but which one is the free-kick bug? Is it the one where our player can't mark opp. properly?

Hopefully that is the one because mine just letting people go too easily currently

It is next to impossible to create a tactic which utilises Wingers (or, in fact, any type of player in the AMR/AML position, including Inside Forwards.)

I disagree, most tactics posted on this forum utilise wingers or inside forwards to great success. I've made multiple formations all with wingers or inside forwards and haven't had the issues a few have. They get great ratings, lots of goals and assists. Maybe its how I set up the rest of the players around them, but I can only speak from my own experiences and my wingers or inside forwards are normally the better players for my side than the rest of the squad.

erm for me, my winger are doing great. they are doing crossing and cutting in all the time. although they doesnt cross at the byline, cause i set them to "deep". but they are still doing great. i score around 30-40% of my goal which is done using crosses.

I disagree, most tactics posted on this forum utilise wingers or inside forwards to great success. I've made multiple formations all with wingers or inside forwards and haven't had the issues a few have. They get great ratings, lots of goals and assists. Maybe its how I set up the rest of the players around them, but I can only speak from my own experiences and my wingers or inside forwards are normally the better players for my side than the rest of the squad.

Really? Then it's just me then?

It seems like whenever I watch my winger gets close down on the byline so badly that he can't cross.

How do you handle that? Not having them to hug touchline?

However.. I do find my winger play more cutting inside and scores more from there..

erm for me, my winger are doing great. they are doing crossing and cutting in all the time. although they doesnt cross at the byline, cause i set them to "deep". but they are still doing great. i score around 30-40% of my goal which is done using crosses.

Hmm really? Deep eh?

But it doesn't really utilize the pace that they have to run past defender, does it?

Imma try that.

Really? Then it's just me then?

It seems like whenever I watch my winger gets close down on the byline so badly that he can't cross.

How do you handle that? Not having them to hug touchline?

However.. I do find my winger play more cutting inside and scores more from there..

Hmm really? Deep eh?

But it doesn't really utilize the pace that they have to run past defender, does it?

Imma try that.

I don't cross from byline as my players are more effective when cutting inside. They utlise their pace for running at defenders and commiting them instead.

for deep, my player run by the side line and do crosses before they cross-over the Box. actually they do run pass the defender, and it takes only 1-2 sec and when it does, you will feel excited abt the cross and the coming goal. ^^

you can check my post for my tactic. you get some idea. ^^

I don't cross from byline as my players are more effective when cutting inside. They utlise their pace for running at defenders and commiting them instead.

Does cutting inside still effective when the playing pitch is wide or you make them play narrow?

for deep, my player run by the side line and do crosses before they cross-over the Box. actually they do run pass the defender, and it takes only 1-2 sec and when it does, you will feel excited abt the cross and the coming goal. ^^

I see.. Sorry but what's 'cross-over the box'?

Okay then I'm gonna try both.

I really it in the old patch where almost all of my crosses are picked up by the target man. Hopefully your inputs help me..

Still welcoming all sort of discussions regarding wingers around here

Does cutting inside still effective when the playing pitch is wide or you make them play narrow?

I mix them up.

When I play a team who is going to defend heavily and not allow the space to cut inside, then I'll instruct them to cross from deep instead.

Does cutting inside still effective when the playing pitch is wide or you make them play narrow?

I see.. Sorry but what's 'cross-over the box'?

Okay then I'm gonna try both.

I really it in the old patch where almost all of my crosses are picked up by the target man. Hopefully your inputs help me..

Still welcoming all sort of discussions regarding wingers around here

sorry for my bad english haha. what i mean was the penalty box. my player usually do cross on the line or before the line. they rarely go all the way to the corner line.

I disagree, most tactics posted on this forum utilise wingers or inside forwards to great success. I've made multiple formations all with wingers or inside forwards and haven't had the issues a few have. They get great ratings, lots of goals and assists. Maybe its how I set up the rest of the players around them, but I can only speak from my own experiences and my wingers or inside forwards are normally the better players for my side than the rest of the squad.

Agree with Cleon.

My Barca tactic in this forum is using wingers to great effect. If patch 10.2 killed wingers, yet Ive got Messi to score 42 goals from the wing, then I guess wingers arent really that killed afterall.

I disagree, most tactics posted on this forum utilise wingers or inside forwards to great success. I've made multiple formations all with wingers or inside forwards and haven't had the issues a few have. They get great ratings, lots of goals and assists. Maybe its how I set up the rest of the players around them, but I can only speak from my own experiences and my wingers or inside forwards are normally the better players for my side than the rest of the squad.

The formations that utilise Inside Forwards tend to do so from an AMC position - the 4-2-3-1's that are common place use AMR/AML but they don't work to anywhere near the standard that the narrower formations do.

The formations that utilise Inside Forwards tend to do so from an AMC position - the 4-2-3-1's that are common place use AMR/AML but they don't work to anywhere near the standard that the narrower formations do.

If wingers are broken like you claim, then (if) they get so called fix we'll be back in Diablo territory as I can easily get my wingers scoring a crazy amount of goals already.

Asfor inside forwards they do damage from all over not only the AMC position. Mine left inside forward does his damage from the edge of the 18 yard box out wide. I'm using a 4-2-3-1 at the minute and my wingers are doing great. I honestly don't see the issue with wingers. Look through good player forum and you'll see wingers with amazing ratings from playing out wide.

imo the issue isn't with wide play not been good enough it's more a issue with narrow formations been too good. The same thing that happened on FML in beta thats all.

If wingers are broken like you claim, then (if) they get so called fix we'll be back in Diablo territory as I can easily get my wingers scoring a crazy amount of goals already.

Asfor inside forwards they do damage from all over not only the AMC position. Mine left inside forward does his damage from the edge of the 18 yard box out wide. I'm using a 4-2-3-1 at the minute and my wingers are doing great. I honestly don't see the issue with wingers. Look through good player forum and you'll see wingers with amazing ratings from playing out wide.

imo the issue isn't with wide play not been good enough it's more a issue with narrow formations been too good. The same thing that happened on FML in beta thats all.

i agree with you. one of my tactic using 4-2-3-1 too. my both inside forward/wingers are all over the place, creating and scoring at the same time. i just love it.

but for my p.o.v, as long as my team play like what i ask them to do so, im happy enough. ^^

Hmmm, I can ony say that I've found Crossing to be VERY poor on this game (only played 10.2 patch).

I've given up using Wingers after a season in the Championship with good wingers (loaned from Prem teams), one with 15 and one with 14 crossing delivering a grand total of 3 assists between them over a WHOLE SEASON.

This despite having a beast of a Target man (Chris Iwelumo from Wolves), 6 foot 4, 18 strength, 17 heading and jumping.

When I checked the Analysis tabs, all their cross were red (blocked), the game descended into a long series of corners (few of which were scored as they all came out as Red blocked shots too !)

This was the same against every team, even one which had one of its fullbacks sent off.

Also true against League 2 teams I met in the cups.

When they cut inside they were fine, and my Left winger did very well at assisting around the box and scoring after good dribbles around the area (after cutting inside)

I find the best way to play now is with one or more pacy forwards. No more big Target man, which is also how the opposition teams line up againt me.

A Shame as English Championship level football and below uses cross and target men a lot.

Not possible in 10.2.

Okay thanks for the feedback so far guys..

So far I'm noticing how narrower approach have been more 'friendly' with the 10.2 patch where the wide player can be utilized better with them having more of a inside striker who cutting inside..

.. compared to going wide with 'traditional' winger who run unto the byline and try to cross from there but found himself being surrounded by markers.

Am I concluding it rightly? Correct me if im wrong.

I've been sensing that too really, since I see that my winger - even when I set them to don't cut inside and play on the byline - they still go inside and find themselves in good fair share of scoring in my team.

Hmmm, I can ony say that I've found Crossing to be VERY poor on this game (only played 10.2 patch).

This despite having a beast of a Target man (Chris Iwelumo from Wolves), 6 foot 4, 18 strength, 17 heading and jumping.

When I checked the Analysis tabs, all their cross were red (blocked), the game descended into a long series of corners (few of which were scored as they all came out as Red blocked shots too !)

Not possible in 10.2.

Agreed.

maybe you can say that this patch, the players doesnt like to "kiss the line" anymore =P

Yeah LOL.

I'm gonna test them to play cut inside and crosses from mixed instead of byline and post how it goes.

Should I stay playing the team wide or make it narrow instead?

not sure for you, but i like to play wide team. cause imo, a winger need to play with a wide team or they cant perform well.

If wingers are broken like you claim, then (if) they get so called fix we'll be back in Diablo territory as I can easily get my wingers scoring a crazy amount of goals already.

Asfor inside forwards they do damage from all over not only the AMC position. Mine left inside forward does his damage from the edge of the 18 yard box out wide. I'm using a 4-2-3-1 at the minute and my wingers are doing great. I honestly don't see the issue with wingers. Look through good player forum and you'll see wingers with amazing ratings from playing out wide.

imo the issue isn't with wide play not been good enough it's more a issue with narrow formations been too good. The same thing that happened on FML in beta thats all.

That's quite possibly true, but it amounts to exactly the same thing - the aim of the game is to be a good manager in terms of using the match engine. Therefore, if a narrow tactic works better than a tactic with wingers (which is my belief, and I AM a fan of wingers but I'm more a fan of winning!), then it needs fixing whatever way it gets fixed.

I usually set my AML and AMR's up as inside forwards. I tend to find that I will get 10-15 goals a season from each of them which is pretty good. I have them set up to cut inside and run with the ball often. They are set up with mixed crossing and mixed through balls. Cross from is set to mixed and cross aim is set to near post.

It's also worth noting that my central striker is set to move into channels and roam from position. I have done this because I noticed that when he moves out wide, an opposing central defender will follow him creating a hole in defence for my inside forwards to drive into and exploit.

I usually set my AML and AMR's up as inside forwards. I tend to find that I will get 10-15 goals a season from each of them which is pretty good. I have them set up to cut inside and run with the ball often. They are set up with mixed crossing and mixed through balls. Cross from is set to mixed and cross aim is set to near post.

It's also worth noting that my central striker is set to move into channels and roam from position. I have done this because I noticed that when he moves out wide, an opposing central defender will follow him creating a hole in defence for my inside forwards to drive into and exploit.

yeah, that what i do too. haha. ^^

Thank you for the feedbacks so far..

So basically I *think* I just found a right tweak for my wingers to play as I wanted to.

Basically I made my team player narrower... as I see how people suggest that "narrow tactics" tend to work better currently.

For my wingers, I made them to cross set to 'mixed' instead of 'often'. It improves their performance as they won't force much crossing..

I also make them to cross from mixed instead of byline so they won't get under pressure as the In depth analysis suggest.

In game, they are now more flexible crossing sometimes from deep or when possible to beat opponent from byline.

Occasionaly they cut inside just on the edge of penalty area and make the cross from there or pass it to my run-from-deep fullback which then crosses.

Glad to say that my targetman began to score from crossing once again..

I got my Walcott from basically never completed a cross in most games, now he just grabbed 3 assists from crossing to my target man

I haven't change the wide play to cut inside yet. He's still on hug touchline. I think I'm gonna test if after some game with this setting and compare it.

grat you got it fix. haha. have fun ^^

If wingers are broken like you claim, then (if) they get so called fix we'll be back in Diablo territory as I can easily get my wingers scoring a crazy amount of goals already.

Asfor inside forwards they do damage from all over not only the AMC position. Mine left inside forward does his damage from the edge of the 18 yard box out wide. I'm using a 4-2-3-1 at the minute and my wingers are doing great. I honestly don't see the issue with wingers. Look through good player forum and you'll see wingers with amazing ratings from playing out wide.

imo the issue isn't with wide play not been good enough it's more a issue with narrow formations been too good. The same thing that happened on FML in beta thats all.

is that with Utd or Sheffield FC Cleon? If it is with utd will you be updating the project thread with the tactic? (Always looking to see what people are doing with a 4231 )

I have been playing a 451 with inside forwards at AML and AMR (rotating Arshavin, Vela, Walcott and Obasi in these positions) and they have scored a fairly high number of goals and assists between them, so I don’t think that wide players are ‘broken’ in 10.2.

What I have found though is that traditional crosses from the byline to a big target man seem to be less effective than in previous versions. My wingers do a reasonable job of getting decent crosses in (though there are an unrealistic number of corners that result IMO, but mostly because 99% of tackles/blocks deflect away for a corner. In one game I had nearly 20 corners) , but the problem for me has been that the target men (I use both Cardozo and Bendtner in this role) don’t seem to score from these with any sort of regularity. In my season with Arsenal I had set up a ‘plan B’ type tactic utilizing crosses to the target man but ended up abandoning the tactic altogether after half a season. However my 451 ‘inside fwd’ formation with Van Persie at the FC position was very effective.

Now I do concede that I didn’t tinker with the ‘plan B’ tactic to any great degree and it may well be possible to get it working much better than I had, but I do think that overall traditional crossing from wide has been made less effective in 10.2

It's a little thing called Patch 10.2, which has sadly killed off the Winger for the moment.

It is next to impossible to create a tactic which utilises Wingers (or, in fact, any type of player in the AMR/AML position, including Inside Forwards.)

Patch 10.3 may address this, because as far as I can tell this is the only major issue that needs addressing, alongside a probably free-kick bug.

Completly disagree with this.

I play with wingers all the time and won lots.

Well everyone's post suggested that wide plays is not completely killed off.. but it's the traditional wingers is as I suggested earlier.

Cutting inside seems to be more effective now. I bought in Sanchez and make him winger (although in MR position) with cut inside option and tweaking on the settings. He grabbed himself 15ish goals and 20ish goals per season. Is that normal?

Not stand out really since I implement the use of attacking midfielder which scores similarly but have been the main contributor of assists around 35ish and 30ish goals/ season.

I wonder how much of this is because of a failure to keep up with the evolution of Football tactics that is being more heavilly punished in a more realistic ME. It is extremely rare to find a team that actually relies upon a traditional winger system feeding a traditional targetman in the box, certainly in the more publicised and famous leagues and competitions around the world.

How many genuine wingers will you find in a combination of the 1st team squads of Barcelona, Real Madrid, Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool? 2? 3? 4?

If the genuine winger role sucks in FM and it is hardly used by any of the top teams in the world in real life then what does that say about the game?

I see what you are saying SFraser about traditional target men/winger combos being much less commonly used today at the elite level, but I’m not sure that this either means that this type of play isn’t effective, or that it isn’t a common and viable tactic at other levels of football. I haven’t played lower levels on this version of FM, but I would imagine that similar difficulties would be experienced with getting this approach to work consistently.

On a related topic, I think what we see at the highest levels with regard to wing play ‘dying out’ as you suggest is more because tactics overall have become more attacking. While few managers at the top level employ traditional wingers on a regular basis, I would argue that nearly all employ wingbacks/attacking fullbacks and that these players have to a great extent ‘replaced’ the role of the traditional winger, meaning that managers are then freed up to play more midfielders or ‘cutting in’ wingers. Indeed 5 of the 6 examples of teams you use employ what could be called specialist wingbacks to offer crossing options into the box (amongst other things). The only team I exclude from this is Arsenal as they do use attacking fullbacks but neither Clichy or Sagna are good crossers of the ball, so not what I would call specialist wingbacks.

What I’m getting at overall is that I don’t see why fundamentally crossing from wide players should be any less effective now in either real life or in FM. I would therefore argue that any reduced effectiveness in the game is down to changes to the match engine (whether intended or otherwise) rather than simply SI ‘reflecting’ some questionable real life trend.

Like I said in my above post, I have not yet put a great deal of experimentation into trying to get crossing to work more effectively (either by my inside fwds or attacking fullbacks), but general play seems to clearly indicate that this type of play is less effective than in previous versions. I’m arguing that it seems to have been made either too ineffective or unnecessarily difficult to set up to be more effective.

Completely agree with dz47. I use Wing Backs with quite a bit of success as they tend to "get the job done" on the flanks. They also allow you to play more central attacking players, resulting in a narrow formation.

Basically, I play the Ancelotti "Diamond", which is Mr. Hough's formation but my own version.

I have another formation, where I tried to emulate the 4-2-3-1 a la Man Utd w/ Ronaldo. I used Inside Forwards, Wingers, cut inside, hug touchline, play down both flanks... every setting you could think of, but they just won't perform to the standards you'd expect. Nearly every time the AMR/AML would attempt a cross, it was either blocked by the full-back, drift harmlessly over everyone in the box, be cleared by the defence - all of which you'd expect quite often from decent sides. However, the success rate was very, very low. Cross completion would frequently be approx. 5-10%. This is from players like Vukcevic, Holtby, Salvio, Barnetta taking on, say, Burnley. It simply wasn't working.

I even downloaded a similar formation on here to see if it was my settings -but the results were exactly the same.

And it wasn't the players - because as soon as I moved the two wide players inside the AMC, they scored for fun as central Inside Forwards.

So I have to conclude that, from my point of view, crossing is too weak compared to the incisive through balls that can be achieved centrally. For all those who are saying "my wingers score lolz", I can guarantee you that if you played the exact same player in a central position, they'll get you 5-10 more goals; even if they're out of position.

Just to add, I have played this series since CM97/98 and I don't make a habit of bitching about this kind of thing, but if there is a fault it should be recognised - if, as Cleon says, central tactics are "nerfed", I wouldn't mind as it would make the game more challenging as a whole. But currently I can't agree that the wide formation is fine.

Just want to clarify what I’m saying. I don’t think that wide play is ‘broken’ as I play a 451 formation with AML/AMR and they get a good number of goals and assists, but almost all the assists are central passes or through balls. I do believe though that the effectiveness of crossing has been unnecessarily reduced.

Tubey84 may be right though in suggesting that the same players played centrally would do even better. Not sure if it can be directly related, but I got Walcott to learn ‘runs through middle’ and he became far more effective even though he’s played on the right and is right footed. I’m heading into my 2nd season now so might experiment with this more central set up a bit to see what the results are.

I'll try to demonstrate what I mean. I'm not saying you can't attack at all from wide positions, I'm saying you can't "as effectively" play with the AMR/AML position.

Here I throw together a really narrow formation for a difficult away game against Fiorentina in the Champions League.

Due to experience, I know that the ball will still be played out wide, but it will be the strikers that roam into that position.

In the next screenshot, the left striker is located in the traditional AML position automatically. I can't think of a way of showing you the difference with what would happen if you actually played a AML, but I'll explain it - he'd be a lot deeper, he may get the ball, but he'd be caught by a full-back almost instantly and the cross would be blocked.

But in the following instance, Ngasa is so far ahead of play he can actually do what a winger usually does.

Now, despite being set as a central striker in all of his settings, Ngasa attacks the byline because he has the space to run into.

If this was an AML, he'd be held up and invariably stop play and pass it back to the full-back or something daft.

Because Ngasa has come from a central position, he doesn't do this.

Goal.

Cardozo is actually the right hand striker too. Because he's so central, he automatically cuts inside far more effectively than an inside forward located at AMR would have done.

Despite the narrow formation, Fiorentina didn't worry me all game. When they did get wide, they blew it, because quite frankly I trust the fact that crossing is so flawed for those who use traditional wide players that 99 times out of 100 my defenders will comfortably clear anything coming into the box - assuming it makes it there in the first place.

The above happens when you play three AMC's instead of one with AML/AMR either side.

What I'm saying is that you will always get better results in patch 10.2 if you have players drifting wide from central positions. Not only that, you get far more defensively too.

EDIT: I'd also like to point out the Fiorentina left-back, number three. What's he doing? If this formation had utilised a AMR, he may have traced the player as the full-backs automatically mark wingers. Because the strikers are drifting wide from central positions, they're going from centre to wide cutting off the full-back altogether. For the AMR/AML, the full back would standardly be in front of the wingers.

EDIT-EDIT!: Tell ya what - instead of bitching about a problem I'm seeing, I'll do what any good tactician does and see if I can find a way to solve it

that's a really interesting post Tubey84. I can honestly say that in the season i just completed with Arsenal, i did not score a single goal in that fashion, and that is precisley the kind of goal i used to score with regularity in previous versions, including 09 when i played with the same 451 formation i am using currently.

I'd be really interested to see this tested some more. Would also be intersting to hear from someone from SI to see if this apparent 'central bias' is something that has been intentionally or unintentionally created in the new ME.

I'll try to demonstrate what I mean. I'm not saying you can't attack at all from wide positions, I'm saying you can't "as effectively" play with the AMR/AML position.

Here I throw together a really narrow formation for a difficult away game against Fiorentina in the Champions League.

Due to experience, I know that the ball will still be played out wide, but it will be the strikers that roam into that position.

In the next screenshot, the left striker is located in the traditional AML position automatically. I can't think of a way of showing you the difference with what would happen if you actually played a AML, but I'll explain it - he'd be a lot deeper, he may get the ball, but he'd be caught by a full-back almost instantly and the cross would be blocked.

But in the following instance, Ngasa is so far ahead of play he can actually do what a winger usually does.

Now, despite being set as a central striker in all of his settings, Ngasa attacks the byline because he has the space to run into.

If this was an AML, he'd be held up and invariably stop play and pass it back to the full-back or something daft.

Because Ngasa has come from a central position, he doesn't do this.

Goal.

Cardozo is actually the right hand striker too. Because he's so central, he automatically cuts inside far more effectively than an inside forward located at AMR would have done.

Despite the narrow formation, Fiorentina didn't worry me all game. When they did get wide, they blew it, because quite frankly I trust the fact that crossing is so flawed for those who use traditional wide players that 99 times out of 100 my defenders will comfortably clear anything coming into the box - assuming it makes it there in the first place.

The above happens when you play three AMC's instead of one with AML/AMR either side.

What I'm saying is that you will always get better results in patch 10.2 if you have players drifting wide from central positions. Not only that, you get far more defensively too.

EDIT: I'd also like to point out the Fiorentina left-back, number three. What's he doing? If this formation had utilised a AMR, he may have traced the player as the full-backs automatically mark wingers. Because the strikers are drifting wide from central positions, they're going from centre to wide cutting off the full-back altogether. For the AMR/AML, the full back would standardly be in front of the wingers.

EDIT-EDIT!: Tell ya what - instead of bitching about a problem I'm seeing, I'll do what any good tactician does and see if I can find a way to solve it

Funny enough I came across the same thing last night, playing a 4-5-1 with AML/R, and it hardly created a chance against reading, switched to 3 central strikers, but had the outer 2 as deep lying forwards and suddenly the attack clicked, 4 CCC in the last 15 minutes. I'm swapping to a more tradional 4-3-3 shape for a while, to see how it goes.

if you want to play with wingers just put your dl to wing right and dr to wing left.this works a threat.

if you want to play with wingers just put your dl to wing right and dr to wing left.this works a threat.

That's not a winger though. That's not what the thread is about

That's not a winger though. That's not what the thread is about

ok good sorry thanks

I'm playing as Man Utd, a narrow 4-4-2 or 4-5-1, and Valencia has scored 8 goals in 12 games, with 5 MOM. (Though the MOM seem to be biased toward goalscorers, he has scored the only goal in 2 1-0 wins and a 1-1 draw and got MOM...)

To be honest, I thought wingers didn't work at all on 10.1, but the new patch is great. He is set to hug touchline and roam from position with lowish creative freedom. I find that he beats his full back regularly, getting himself 1v1 against them before crossing from the byline. But when the ball is on the other side of the pitch, he gets in to the box, and has scored most of his goals finishing off team moves that start on the left and are finished with a through ball.

The only problem with wingers (imo) is that cut inside doesn't seem to work as well

I wonder how much of this is because of a failure to keep up with the evolution of Football tactics that is being more heavilly punished in a more realistic ME. It is extremely rare to find a team that actually relies upon a traditional winger system feeding a traditional targetman in the box, certainly in the more publicised and famous leagues and competitions around the world.

How many genuine wingers will you find in a combination of the 1st team squads of Barcelona, Real Madrid, Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool? 2? 3? 4?

If the genuine winger role sucks in FM and it is hardly used by any of the top teams in the world in real life then what does that say about the game?

Now that you mention it.. Your point does make a sense..

This 'ineffective traditional wingers' have become so due to the match engine that is 'tweaked' so the game can be more realistic in pitch.

Like I said in my above post, I have not yet put a great deal of experimentation into trying to get crossing to work more effectively (either by my inside fwds or attacking fullbacks), but general play seems to clearly indicate that this type of play is less effective than in previous versions. I’m arguing that it seems to have been made either too ineffective or unnecessarily difficult to set up to be more effective.

Well I have..

One thing for sure is that playing wingers on byline and force them to touch hugline will not do any good on your crossing. 90% of your cross will be blocked or be passed back to your running fullback.

The deal is that when wingers run with the ball on wide plays. 2-3 defenders began to mark them and that pretty much ruins any chances for good crossing.

Changing it to cut inside won't do much either. It is more effective compared to hug touchline, but still your winger will be tightly marked badly.

I have realized as well since I develop a new tactic which is Barcelona-like 4-3-3 system and what Tubey pointed out is totally true.

EDIT: I'd also like to point out the Fiorentina left-back, number three. What's he doing? If this formation had utilised a AMR, he may have traced the player as the full-backs automatically mark wingers. Because the strikers are drifting wide from central positions, they're going from centre to wide cutting off the full-back altogether. For the AMR/AML, the full back would standardly be in front of the wingers.

Yeah probably what your pointing out is spot on. Seeing how 'wide players' from 4-3-3 formations and traditional wingers being marked in game, it can be said how opp. fullback will constantly tight man mark them if wingers is applied.. and therefore making them harder to do what they should do .

I don't know how 3 forward man will be marked though. Isn't the right and left forward will be marked by fullbacks?

EDIT :

Is that on normal plays or are you on a counter attack?

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glad how this thread turns out to be a very good discussion.

More importantly, turns out it's not just happening to me LOL.

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I'm playing as Man Utd, a narrow 4-4-2 or 4-5-1, and Valencia has scored 8 goals in 12 games, with 5 MOM. (Though the MOM seem to be biased toward goalscorers, he has scored the only goal in 2 1-0 wins and a 1-1 draw and got MOM...)

To be honest, I thought wingers didn't work at all on 10.1, but the new patch is great. He is set to hug touchline and roam from position with lowish creative freedom. I find that he beats his full back regularly, getting himself 1v1 against them before crossing from the byline. But when the ball is on the other side of the pitch, he gets in to the box, and has scored most of his goals finishing off team moves that start on the left and are finished with a through ball.

The only problem with wingers (imo) is that cut inside doesn't seem to work as well

Why are you having the opposite situation?

Wingers works on the old patch for me.. *Did it work for anybody else as well?*

My Walcott on the old patch got like 40 assists which mostly are crosses to Cardozo.

It's now how it has become less effective in that sort of play.

There is little 1v1 opportunities, and if it occurs, although he have already beat the marker but somehow the fullback able to catch up to him to the byline and blocked the cross anyway.

What happens now most is when he crosses from deep or make little cut inside run and pass a through ball to my poacher who then finishes it.

Although I have to agree that when the opposite side crosses he will come into the box and scores from there. And it's doing great. Probably comes from the roaming from position settings.

anyone tried the aaron lennon approach for the wingers?

rarely cross, cut inside, RWB often, cross from byline, hug touchline (although touch hugline as someone wrote earlier did make me laugh )

doing this from thought not sure if if cut inside and hug touchline can both be set or alternatively are contradictory to each other

anyone tried the aaron lennon approach for the wingers?

rarely cross, cut inside, RWB often, cross from byline, hug touchline (although touch hugline as someone wrote earlier did make me laugh )

doing this from thought not sure if if cut inside and hug touchline can both be set or alternatively are contradictory to each other

They're contradictory. Best you can do is "Mixed".

And yes, tried that, spectacular failure. They just half-arse run straight into the opposition full-back for 90 minutes.

maybe set to move into channel instead of cut inside. with that setting, your winger might cross from byline and hug touchline.

oh yeah, maybe you want to set your team forcus passing to down both flank? might help too.

(although touch hugline as someone wrote earlier did make me laugh )

LOL My bad !

They're contradictory. Best you can do is "Mixed".

And yes, tried that, spectacular failure. They just half-arse run straight into the opposition full-back for 90 minutes.

Which one is the failure? Setting it to mix or the one Sokem posted?

maybe set to move into channel instead of cut inside. with that setting, your winger might cross from byline and hug touchline.

oh yeah, maybe you want to set your team forcus passing to down both flank? might help too.

Nah moving into channel isn't the right wide area move for wingers..

Curently transforming my 442 diamond to 4-1-1-2-2 or 4-1-3-2 and see how it goes.

yeah wingers are not so effective my assist.. im using man utd, rooney and berbatov are my top assists..

wingers are a waste of time on my man utd game

I've recently posted my tactic which relies heavily on wingers. They get a fair share of goals (10 or so a season) and provide lots of assists, so I don't think wingers are ineffective at all. Check out the thread: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=184893 - the first post contains the full settings I've got them on as well, it might give you some ideas.

im glad i have stumbled across this thread as I too have suffered similar issues. i thought i had merely set up my wingers wrong so it is heartening to see that others are seeing the same issue. To see a winger beat a player, then slow down, then shuffle slowly whilst the defender is in front of him, only to see his cross blocked and go out for a corner is rather frustrating.

Overall though, i think its important to remember that the wingers contribute in other areas as well so despite being a little ineffective in the wing play area I find that their other qualities can add greatly to my gameplan.