Work Permits for "Talented" Players - Why so Inconsistent?

Yes, it's another WP question. I know that players who don't qualify for them through international appearances can sometimes get them because they're essentially very talented. What I can't understand is why the definition of "talented" seems to vary so much. Here's an illustration with three players I've been chasing:

Alvarez, a Mexican Left Back

Chen, a Chinese Left Winger

Liu, a Chinese Attacking Midfielder / Forward

All three were rated by my 20JPA scout as having the potential to be leading Premiership players. So who got a WP? Well, the two Chinese were rejected, and Alvarez got his. He's least talented - going by his attributes - and has only played internationals at youth level, while the other two are good enough for a low end Premiership club already, and have played every international they've been able to since coming into the game (Chen was injured for a couple).

This isn't an isolated incident. I've noticed several excellent young players not getting WPs, while seemingly weaker ones get them. Based on my experience, it almost seems that those from Latin America get them, while those from elsewhere don't. So what's going on?

No idea, I believe that in FM08 yougsters would get a WP when having a PA of 180 or more, but not sure, maybe it is the same for FM09.

No idea, I believe that in FM08 yougsters would get a WP when having a PA of 180 or more, but not sure, maybe it is the same for FM09.

I don't like checking PAs, but I was intending to sign them all anyway, so I thought I'd take a look with FMRTE:

Liu: 169

Alvarez: 176

Chen: 196

So that's not the answer (and I'm even more convinced I need Chen ).

Then I have no idea, maybe try the bugs forum, or wait if someone here can give you (and me) a clear answer.

Maybe there's a random element involved in decision? So that people can use whether a decision is accepted or not to rule out players who don't reach the 180 mark?

Also, are there any real life factors to take into account? For example is there legistlation out there that makes it harder for certain nationalities to gain a work permit? In some EU countries don't South American players gain the adopted nationality, like Spanish, quicker than others would?

OT: How do you show those attributes in different colors?

The fact that in real life, alex song of arsenal was granted a work permit for being a 'talented' player yet carlos vela wasn't and had to go out on loan for a few seasons in spain.

this kind of xplains it but i've no idea why.

I'm going with random element then. Partly to obscure the PA of players (so it's not a simple case of all the ones who get accepted are going to be great) and partly because in real life you get some odd decision made anyway (subjective nature of it all. There is no one set measure of a players ability).

Reputation also comes into play here. China isn't exactly a football powerhouse, but Liu looks incredible considering he can use both feet.

Reputation also comes into play here. China isn't exactly a football powerhouse, but Liu looks incredible considering he can use both feet.

But why should a country's reputation matter for individual players? Surely if they're talented it shouldn't matter were they came from?

Oh, and Chen ain't half bad with his right foot either

Maybe the squad status you promise to them also has an effect. Key players should get the permit if all of this would be logic, don't know if it works like that in the game though.....

But why should a country's reputation matter for individual players? Surely if they're talented it shouldn't matter were they came from?

Oh, and Chen ain't half bad with his right foot either

I guess the country's reputation reflects on the players it produces. For example Italy having, or had, a reputation for great defenders, Brazil with strikers and so on. Counting the number of world class players China has produced is probably easier than listing all of the ones to come out of South America, or even just one country like Argentina or Brazil.

Players from those countries might be considered a 'safer' bet when it comes to work permits because of the countries track record as a whole.

Reputation also comes into play here. China isn't exactly a football powerhouse, but Liu looks incredible considering he can use both feet.

Right, but it's more down to player rep than nation. Check their reps (if you checks PAs then this shouldn't be hard).

Maybe the squad status you promise to them also has an effect. Key players should get the permit if all of this would be logic, don't know if it works like that in the game though.....

Key players are far more likely to get them, correct.

The home officer civil servants who make these decisions use discretion, so there is a random element in real life.

They consider whether the player is better than a home national player. If you state that he will be a key player, they will take that more favourably than if you tell them he will be taking the place of a reserve or U18 player.

what andy said really.

The home officer civil servants who make these decisions use discretion, so there is a random element in real life.

They consider whether the player is better than a home national player. If you state that he will be a key player, they will take that more favourably than if you tell them he will be taking the place of a reserve or U18 player.

And yet, in this case, I set Alvarez as a "hot prospect" and the other two as "first team".

I guess the country's reputation reflects on the players it produces. For example Italy having, or had, a reputation for great defenders, Brazil with strikers and so on. Counting the number of world class players China has produced is probably easier than listing all of the ones to come out of South America, or even just one country like Argentina or Brazil.

Players from those countries might be considered a 'safer' bet when it comes to work permits because of the countries track record as a whole.

You have a good point here, never tought of that but to me it makes sence.

The home officer civil servants who make these decisions use discretion, so there is a random element in real life.

They consider whether the player is better than a home national player. If you state that he will be a key player, they will take that more favourably than if you tell them he will be taking the place of a reserve or U18 player.

I always try to give them a key player or first player team contract when brining in a player who needs a WP. For me the ones I do want to sign always gets the WP.

Pretty certain for a WP the country of the player must be in the top 70 worldwide or something like that....with china being so kack (no offence) this is probably why their appeal is repeatedly refused.

Just found it:

In the UK, the Liverpool football teams's failure to obtain a work permit for Chilean footballer Mark Gonzalez earlier this month again highlighted the unpredictable process of getting UK work permits for non-European players. Gonzalez was born in South Africa and moved to Chile as a young boy. He had initially agreed a one year loan deal, which, if successful, would result in a £4.7m transfer to the European champions. His work permit application, however, was rejected due to Chile's position outside the top 70 FIFA world rankings: Chile are ranked 72.

last world ranking has china at 98 !

I also got rather frustrated with this matters... I found an fairly promising looking 22 year old right-back from iran (can't remember his name anymore) who i was trying to buy. I could had have him for less then a million but the transfer fell through for him not getting a work permit. I was rather suprised he didn't get the work permit, as his a really established international player, despite his young age he has already 44 caps for iran.

Is this Hosain Kaebi you're talking about? He was pretty decent for my Leicester side in FM08.

Pretty certain for a WP the country of the player must be in the top 70 worldwide or something like that....with china being so kack (no offence) this is probably why their appeal is repeatedly refused.

Just found it:

In the UK, the Liverpool football teams's failure to obtain a work permit for Chilean footballer Mark Gonzalez earlier this month again highlighted the unpredictable process of getting UK work permits for non-European players. Gonzalez was born in South Africa and moved to Chile as a young boy. He had initially agreed a one year loan deal, which, if successful, would result in a £4.7m transfer to the European champions. His work permit application, however, was rejected due to Chile's position outside the top 70 FIFA world rankings: Chile are ranked 72.

last world ranking has china at 98 !

That's only for "guarenteed" work permits. In theory, any player can have one granted on appeal. That rule only applies for before the appeal.

Lets face it none of them are going to blow the country up so they should be allowed in.

That's only for "guarenteed" work permits. In theory, any player can have one granted on appeal. That rule only applies for before the appeal.

Erm no. The "guarantee" is if they have played 70% more of their countries international matches in the past two years I think. If a player is rejected on the basis of this, they can apply on the basis of talent, which again would be restricted to players from nations within the top 70 of the world.

Erm no. The "guarantee" is if they have played 70% more of their countries international matches in the past two years I think. If a player is rejected on the basis of this, they can apply on the basis of talent, which again would be restricted to players from nations within the top 70 of the world.

I'm not sure that we have enough cases of tremendous talents from outside the top 70, but I believe Ryan Nelsen was granted a permit even though New Zealand were out of the top 70, so I think that anyone is open to an appeal.

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/NewsFromTheFA/Postings/2008/11/Work_Permits_Players_PBS.htm

Thats the official bit from the FA.

It seems the country in question has to have been place 70 or above within the last two years...which I'm not sure FM has the capability to calculate or measure. When an appeal is launched, the case is referred to a panel of football luminaries - hence maybe the reason why Nelsen's was granted (he speaks english !!! surely makes a pleasant change for the panel).

Either way, I would assume that - even if there isn't - there should be a CA/PA system of some sort that means that a player from pretty much anywhere can sign as long as he's good enough. In RL this is not measurable - FM can, and should, do it.

I'm not sure that we have enough cases of tremendous talents from outside the top 70, but I believe Ryan Nelsen was granted a permit even though New Zealand were out of the top 70, so I think that anyone is open to an appeal.

Doesn't it matter that New Zealand has historic link with the UK.