Regen GK

I've just been looking ahead a little and been preparing for the time when my GK retires and will need to be replaced by a regen. I like teamwork, I like work rate and I'd quite like a team player between the sticks.

Alas, none of my prospects have any teamworking ability or any work rate. So I cast my net and had a look at what my scouts had found. Nope, none of them were hard-working team players either. In fact, very few had over 6 in either attribute. So I threw any vale of realism out the window and had a manual search through the Premiership and CL squads. Nope, no-one has found a hard-working team player to stick between the sticks. Does one exist in the world? What has happened to them all? How can all of the GK's have become lazy soloists? Has it always been that way? Nope, my faithful trusty old GK works pretty hard for the team.

And, more interestingly, will a global lack of work rate lead to GKs too lazy to reach their potential?

It is the same with regen GK's attributes in my long save, too. I think Determination and Professionalism are more important for gaining CA than Work Rate, so I doubt there will be a problem with quality GKs. As for Teamwork, GKs probably use the Communication attribute instead.

I think work rate is more an on the pitch attribute so it shouldn't make a difference to them reaching their potential. This happens on every long term save I have ever had all newgen GK's I have seen have work rate and teamwork lower than 8. I have had lazy strikers and AMC's who had no problems filling their potential.

I'm not sure how much emphasis the engine puts on workrate for goal keepers its not an attribute I look for in them.

Sounds like the regen GK template doesn't priorities it. If it has no or little effect in the ME there can be no harm in allowing it to have higher values for no more cost and making the regens look more like the researched players.

Seems strange that in my first season game with Spurs I searched for GK's with at least 10 for work rate and team work the result 516 players. I then searched in my 2030 game for the same and there was not a single GK, there were 8 that had at least 8 in both attributes but 4 of them were old non-newgen GK's.

must say its not a stat i ever look for in a GK

They are just attributes I like to have all over the pitch but I could see why work rate isn't particularly important on the pitch for GKs. I'd definitely like teamwork though, not masses of it but 10+ preferably.

I guess it makes no odds in the long run as comparatively you'd eliminate those stats from your ideals. If no-one has those skills then it doesn't matter that my keeper doesn't either as comparatively he could still be the best in the business.

Just a curious quirk of the game I guess. I think logically you'd expect at least reasonable levels in those stats, on par with the real players anyway. I guess SI didn't want to offend anyone with their opinion that all GKs are selfish and lazy!!

Lower work rate=higher reflexes/shot stopping/ariel ability etc, so it really doesn't matter to me.

It doesn't have to just make it cost less CA points and its average level higher.

Templates for all players in all positions and roles should include all the attributes. There should be no -completely- randomized attribute.

Why? Because in earlier versions of FM, more attributes were random than they are now, and the game has improved because of it. Logical thinking would therefore dictate that the best possible attribute generation mechanic includes all attributes, not just a few.

I just don't like the difference between the start of the game and 20 seasons in. Anyone else with a long term game 15 seasons plus, could you serach for GK's with at least 10 in team work and work rate?

So, at the start of the game:

GKs: 4577

Work Rate 10+: 990

Work Rate 15+: 114

2025-26:

GKs: 4248

Work Rate 10+: 268

Work Rate 15+: 8

2025-26 (regens only):

GKs: 3806

Work Rate 10+: 172

Work Rate 15+: 0

Although it really doesn't matter from what I've seen. There are lots of World Class keepers and work rate is hardly something that's critical in keepers. However, the OPs observation is very obvious looking at those numbers. It went from 21.6% of keepers having 10+ and 2.5% of keepers having 15+ to 6.3% and 0.2%. This number further drops to 4.5% for regens only at that time and 0% for 15+! Good spot, but I'm not sure if it really matters.

I just don't like the difference between the start of the game and 20 seasons in. Anyone else with a long term game 15 seasons plus, could you serach for GK's with at least 10 in team work and work rate?

2022 and no regens with over 10 in teamwork. Minimal numbers have 10 or more work rate. Just 2 over 13. I have quite a good scouting network too so that's pretty thorough.

As a former irl goalie, I can tell you that workrate on the pitch means practically nothing. Even in games where you're busy, you spend an awful lot of time as a virtual bystander. The most important parts of the mental side of the game are concentrating on what's happening and communicating with your defence.

surely workrate isn't important for goalkeepers. they often just stand about in games and dont do much! are you expecting them to want to get forward and be part of the play of what?

as long as they are good at shotstopping, come off the line when the ball is easily in their territory and have a good ammount of intelligence then you dont need a lot else?

So, at the start of the game:

GKs: 4577

Work Rate 10+: 990

Work Rate 15+: 114

2025-26:

GKs: 4248

Work Rate 10+: 268

Work Rate 15+: 8

2025-26 (regens only):

GKs: 3806

Work Rate 10+: 172

Work Rate 15+: 0

Although it really doesn't matter from what I've seen. There are lots of World Class keepers and work rate is hardly something that's critical in keepers. However, the OPs observation is very obvious looking at those numbers. It went from 21.6% of keepers having 10+ and 2.5% of keepers having 15+ to 6.3% and 0.2%. This number further drops to 4.5% for regens only at that time and 0% for 15+! Good spot, but I'm not sure if it really matters.

I never understand why SI put high rates for Cech, Valdes, Casillas, Lloris, etc... but never for regens. And the problem exists since many years.

As a former irl goalie, I can tell you that workrate on the pitch means practically nothing. Even in games where you're busy, you spend an awful lot of time as a virtual bystander. The most important parts of the mental side of the game are concentrating on what's happening and communicating with your defence.

Ok I can see why work rate isn't necessarily important as it is vaguely equivalent to concentration maybe for GKs but the last part, communicating with your defence, surely encompasses teamwork and I'd say this is a pretty vital quality to have.

surely workrate isn't important for goalkeepers. they often just stand about in games and dont do much! are you expecting them to want to get forward and be part of the play of what?

Of course not. It's more of a mentality thing really. Any sort of lazy sportsman isn't really what you want in a changing room. I'd imagine the top GK's put in just as much work as anyone in training. Professionalism & concentration probably covers my point.

Communication is it's own goalkeeping stat though. Teamwork is more about if you forgo individual opportunities for the benefit of the team, for instance passing to a better placed player rather than dribbling or shooting yourself. A goalkeeper will pretty much always look to pass to a team mate as soon as possible anyway.

edit: And professionalism is what effects player development, not workrate. So look for players described as professional if you want a great tutor to get your wonderkids to fulfil their potential.

I a do not consider them important attributes but if they were so unimportant then why are there hundreds of GK's at the start of the game with these attributes in double figures?

Communication is it's own goalkeeping stat though. Teamwork is more about if you forgo individual opportunities for the benefit of the team, for instance passing to a better placed player rather than dribbling or shooting yourself. A goalkeeper will pretty much always look to pass to a team mate as soon as possible anyway.

edit: And professionalism is what effects player development, not workrate. So look for players described as professional if you want a great tutor to get your wonderkids to fulfil their potential.

Agreed that communication is the most important attrib but logically it would work in tandem with teamwork. The prime objective of GK communication is to defend the goal of course but that objective is accomplished by the 11 players on the pitch working as a team (often directed via communication from the GK), hence teamwork in real-life is important for GKs. Although it seems likely it's probably ineffectual in FM terms.

I'm pretty sure work rate plays a part in player development but, as with teamwork, it is secondary to other attributes.

I just looked through an old FM09 long save, my regen GK has 11 for teamwork & work rate and I'm pretty sure I will have looked for that. I'm not expecting epic levels for these attribs but around 10 seems reasonable in RL for a top class keeper. I'm guessing I just got extemely lucky with this guy and that he would of been just as good with 2 in these attribs as FM doesn't seem to use them in GKs.

I a do not consider them important attributes but if they were so unimportant then why are there hundreds of GK's at the start of the game with these attributes in double figures?

I can only assume that SI didn't want to offend anyone (still seems odd though), in the same way that any negative personalities are described as 'balanced' for real players.

Yeah i would have thought the attributes for real life players are played "safe" as to avoid any questions, where in FM terms the attributes are almost redundant for keepers so regens dont develop them.

I don't think that is the case the researchers rate players realistically.

I don't think that is the case the researchers rate players realistically.

Yep but if the attribute in-game doesn't matter then why risk upsetting the apple cart by claiming that a GK is lazy or selfish. The negative personalities are masked for that very reason.

Yep but if the attribute in-game doesn't matter then why risk upsetting the apple cart by claiming that a GK is lazy or selfish. The negative personalities are masked for that very reason.

So why does Reina have 2 for team work then?

So for GK's and no other position SI fix the attributes so they do not offend anyone yet they do not do the same for outfield players?

The attributes for outfield players are important so they can't fix them without ruining the integrity of the simulation (which is possibly done anyway by fixing irrelevant attributes for that reason).

Good point about Reina. It's potentially very difficult to make the call on teamwork for GKs from only watching games for reasons presented in this thread, if the researcher knew the players or watched them train then maybe a more accurate rating could be presented as surely work rate & teamwork is more obvious for keepers off the pitch than on it.

I am not sure how they rate the two attributes, I would guess rating GK's for these attributes would be quite hard to do. I just do not think that the researchers are told to have high ratings for certain attributes so they do not offend anyone, I guess only SI and the researchers know that.

Agreed, it sounds a little odd but I can't think of any other reason why real GKs are reasonable in these areas but regen ones arent. Especially given that they probably aren't used by the ME for GKs.

I certainly won't be worried about trying to find a GK with 10+ for those attributes now!

I think it is just a simple case of as time goes on the youth are becoming less and less hard-working xD

I think it is just a simple case of as time goes on the youth are becoming less and less hard-working xD

Degens

xxx

I Posted in the bugs forum and linked to this thread. hopefully not to late to be fixed in time for FM12.