1st place coach leaves and goes to 14th place club in December...

In my league, our 1st place club - Hoffenheim - is a little bit of a surprise. Top 4 contendors for sure, but not title contendors pre-season. So it just turned to December, and they're currently in 1st! By a wide margin. So the 14th place club - Hamburger/HSV - just fired their coach. Few days later, HSV hire Hoffenheim's coach (Ralf Rangnick). $3.3m was paid to Hoffenheim.

Now, I'm not too familiar w/ true life Bundesliga politics or movement or whathaveyou. But surely, this is a bit absurd? Do coaches in FM11 have any sort of AI besides the stat ratings they have? I mean, would there be any situation where a coach would leave a 1st place club mid-season for a club bordering relegation? Considering Rangnick and Hoffenheim have never won 1st and Hoffenheim has only been in 1st division since 2008 (currently 2012-13 season in my file)? Wouldn't SI just have some sort of AI program for them to win at all costs as its a huge monumental achievement for the club? I mean, even if HSV offered Rangnick $1 BILLION, i would think he'd still turn it down for pride's sake, right?

edit: btw, contract offer was $34k/week. Not sure what he was making at Hoffenheim, but cmon...!!!

In my league, our 1st place club - Hoffenheim - is a little bit of a surprise. Top 4 contendors for sure, but not title contendors pre-season. So it just turned to December, and they're currently in 1st! By a wide margin. So the 14th place club - Hamburger/HSV - just fired their coach. Few days later, HSV hire Hoffenheim's coach (Ralf Rangnick). $3.3m was paid to Hoffenheim.

Now, I'm not too familiar w/ true life Bundesliga politics or movement or whathaveyou. But surely, this is a bit absurd? Do coaches in FM11 have any sort of AI besides the stat ratings they have? I mean, would there be any situation where a coach would leave a 1st place club mid-season for a club bordering relegation? Considering Rangnick and Hoffenheim have never won 1st and Hoffenheim has only been in 1st division since 2008 (currently 2012-13 season in my file)? Wouldn't SI just have some sort of AI program for them to win at all costs as its a huge monumental achievement for the club? I mean, even if HSV offered Rangnick $1 BILLION, i would think he'd still turn it down for pride's sake, right?

edit: btw, contract offer was $34k/week. Not sure what he was making at Hoffenheim, but cmon...!!!

Of course managers leave to other clubs, regardless of where they are in the table when the season isnt even half over!

Do you know what his loyalty rating is? They might have doubled his wages, given him a massive budget etc. OK, HSV are 14th but they are not exactly some nobody club are they?

Of course managers leave to other clubs, regardless of where they are in the table when the season isnt even half over!

Do you know what his loyalty rating is? They might have doubled his wages, given him a massive budget etc. OK, HSV are 14th but they are not exactly some nobody club are they?

Hoffenheim have a tycoon owner. Its unlikely any of your conditions would have been met.

They are also a village team who bought their way to success, while HSV are an established team with traditions, from one of Germany's biggest cities.

Having said that, I do think it's slightly unrealistic, but it's really difficult to balance such things in the game.

Ive seen this happening, Mick McCarthy left a champions league bound Wolves for someone, ended up winning the FA cup but getting relegated, but thinking about it Harry Rednapp left Portsmouth for Spurs when they had a bad start, club potential is probably higher at HSV

Ive seen this happening, Mick McCarthy left a champions league bound Wolves for someone, ended up winning the FA cup but getting relegated, but thinking about it Harry Rednapp left Portsmouth for Spurs when they had a bad start, club potential is probably higher at HSV

And Coyle's move from Burnley to Bolton when Burnley were above them. Still 1st to 14th is extreme. I was wondering about Hoffenheim...they manage to afford the wages of the Man city rejects (De jong and Boateng so far) so i suspected they must have a tycoon.

Maybe the pressure got to him

Yeah, like Bababui said, Hoffenheim have a tycoon owner. However, as also stated, HSV does have more tradition. The wage I assume was less b/c the replacing manager at Hoffenheim (Italian guy from Zenit, forgot his name) is making $51k/week. So, not really sure why the heck Rangnick took the HSV job, AI-wise. Less lucrative job at the current time, worse position, NOT a favored club by the manager, (most likely) lower pay, etc. I guess maybe some coaches are attracted to tradition? So much they'd leave their 1st real chance at winning the league title and starting a new tradition to go rebuild tradition at another club...?

I'm actually really curious now how the coach's AI processed this decision. Any chance SI comments on this? =D

I guess that this is simply calculated by reputation and HSV have a higher reputation than Hoffenheim. Not sure whether that could happen in real life, though. There's nothing wrong with Rangnick joining HSV but it's a bit weird that he decides to do so while leading the league comfortably. IRL he left Hoffenheim in winter because he felt that there was too much interference from the sugar daddy (Luiz Gustavo was sold to Bayern Munich). Had HSV been in search of a manager at that time, he might have been a suitable candidate.

Recently, the manager of Leverkusen has announced his intention to join as the manager of Bayern at the end of the season.

If you look at it, Leverkusen are 2nd and Bayern are 4th.

Not the same but manager don't always intend to join teams that win, sometimes its based on a chairmans intention for the club, or his forseeable future.

For example, I would much rather take a job where I would be guaranteed the a long-term job and the ability to build my own team with a patient chairman, rather than a job at Real Madrid / Man City, where getting fired is something being considered after losing 1 game.

Hoff. is actually a high pressure job due to the chairmans intention to splash cash and generate instant results.

Though if you were to just analyze the decision based on FM's coding, it might be due to the fact that they are first only in December. They still have not won anything to increase their reputation substantially and the other half the season is massively unpredictable. It really doesn't matter how good you do in the first half of the season if you falter at the end. *Leverkusen last year were unbeaten for the longest time until they reached the 3rd quarter of the season and pretty much lost everything.

How much time did he have left on his previous contract? Some 6 months before their contract ends they start to expect new contract offer from current club. If no contract is offered, they start to look around.

But...

leaving AT THE END OF THE SEASON is ok...

However leaving a title-contender IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON to join another club in the same division, stuck in mid-table, is just dumb and unrealistic.

Is the new club richer, more respected and popular? Will they offer the manager 10x his current wage and a 200M transfer budget? FINE, he'll sign but for the new season.... To me it just makes zero sense having managers jumping ship during the season, even less sense if the jump is a jump backwards.

The "manager market" in FM is just messed up

If the AI is going to do this it should have a news item like....

"Much to the surprise of fans, Mr Whoever has decided to step down as manager of first placed Hoffenhiem and take up the reins at HSV Hamburg. Mr Whoever cited that it was too good a job to turn down and that HSV's position in the table was not an indication of their true ablility."

"In a parting shot at his former employers Mr Whoever doubted Hoffenheim could continue the recent success given their provincial roots"

Ouch...

Is the new club richer, more respected and popular? Will they offer the manager 10x his current wage and a 200M transfer budget? FINE, he'll sign but for the new season.... To me it just makes zero sense having managers jumping ship during the season, even less sense if the jump is a jump backwards.

The "manager market" in FM is just messed up

I think your last remark is spot on, but this guy leaving high flying, but provicial, Hoffenheim for underachieving giants HSV is actually sort of proof that there is something right in the FM-manager-market after all IMO. If Cagliari are top of Serie A, is their manager going to reject Milan?

You can question the time of departure sure, but if a big club is eager to sign a manager right away (to save the season), and offer their target a contract which will start immediately, take it or leave it. What would that manager do? The chances are they'll pick another manager instead if he doesnt take it and he might never manage a club of that stature. Why do players move in the winter transefer-window? Same thing really, isnt it? And the fact he is up there with Hoffenheim makes him the ideal candidate to get HSV back on track. I understand completely.

I wish these sort of things would happen to me in my journeyman-save (that isnt quite turning out to be so journeyman after all because of the lack of these sort of things).

And I agree with the newsitems of BlueSqFCB

Any chance of having my news item included in the game SI? I have produced a final version...

"Much to the surprise of fans, Ralf Rangnick has decided to step down as manager of first placed Hoffenhiem and take up the reins at HSV Hamburg. Mr Rangnick cited that it was too good a job to turn down and that HSV's position in the table was not an indication of their true ablility."

"In a parting shot at his former employers Ralf Rangnick doubted Hoffenheim could continue the recent success given their provincial roots"

The "manager market" in FM is just messed up

I agree, I've played in the Premier League before and Man City and Chelsea bosses are always under fire even if they finish 2nd and win the FA Cup. It's dumb. I've seen Mourinho get fired after winning the CL, but finishing 4th in La Liga...don't even get me started about La Liga in general...

I think your last remark is spot on, but this guy leaving high flying, but provicial, Hoffenheim for underachieving giants HSV is actually sort of proof that there is something right in the FM-manager-market after all IMO. If Cagliari are top of Serie A, is their manager going to reject Milan?

No way you can compare HSV's history w/ Milan's. HSV won a lot of silverware in the 70s only, no? And is pretty much just known nationally, no? Milan is world-renowned club and has been winning titles of all varieties for over a century. However, all in all, i see the point you're (trying to be) making.

Any chance of having my news item included in the game SI? I have produced a final version...

"Much to the surprise of fans, Ralf Rangnick has decided to step down as manager of first placed Hoffenhiem and take up the reins at HSV Hamburg. Mr Rangnick cited that it was too good a job to turn down and that HSV's position in the table was not an indication of their true ablility."

"In a parting shot at his former employers Ralf Rangnick doubted Hoffenheim could continue the recent success given their provincial roots"

I wish. There was no explanation at all and I even saved the news item as a note!

No way you can compare HSV's history w/ Milan's. HSV won a lot of silverware in the 70s only, no? And is pretty much just known nationally, no? Milan is world-renowned club and has been winning titles of all varieties for over a century. However, all in all, i see the point you're (trying to be) making.

I'm not saying HSV is as big a club as Milan, but in germany it is one of the few clubs that follow in the almighty Bayerns wake. HSV, Schalke, Dortmund, Werder, those are big clubs with an enormous history and following. These are clubs of a size you shouldn't underestimate, and are certainly not just "known nationally". If Bayern is ManUtd, then HSV would be Arsenal, Chelsea or Spurs. Hoffenheim would be Wigan or Bolton.