4-2-3-1 Super_Defense

Disclaimer:

First of all, despite the name, this is not an anti - football tactic. It can score enough goals to win games and some can be really aesthetic as well. It is however a tactic that primarily aims at having a water tight defense. This does not mean you will never concede. You will still concede through set pieces, extraordinary skill from your opponents, gigantic mistakes from your defense or sheer bad luck. The tactic does however ensure that it offers proper defensive cover at all times on all areas of the pitch without making you offensively impotent. It does require that you watch your matches at least in key highlights and that you do a minimum amount of preparation before each match. If you are not willing to put even the slightest effort it might not work as expected. A detailed explanation of the philosophy, framework and specific slider settings will be provided later on (for those who care for such things). For now, let's take a look at the formation itself and some key points since I don't want to bore everyone with details that only a few might be interested in:

Download Link: http://www.mediafire.com/?i8ujddlmfbfdfd4

Version 2: http://www.mediafire.com/?fktf1sa7latwnj4 Check if your right DM has RFD set to sometimes, if not set it or re-download this version

Version 2 Classic: http://www.mediafire.com/?lxfi448m44t4fz8

Update: The "Version 2" is, by popular demand, simply a more attacking version of the original tactic. There is only one change in roles, the striker from a complete forward/support (or false nine if you like) becomes a complete forward/attack more or less. Basically he has a considerably higher mentality and he will often act as the spearhead of your attack, but will also open space for the attacking midfielders. Since he won't be dropping deep that often the emphasis on his attributes shifts a bit from creative/technical to being more of a poacher. Since I had many requests for a version that was not in classic format, I provided both versions. Something I feel worth pointing out is that it is very important to know when to switch between the two versions. After a while your team becomes too predictable and you need to change between the two versions to keep your opponents on your toes. This can make a massive difference.

Formation:

As you can see it is a "deep" 4-2-3-1 formation. The player roles are almost identical to real life Real Madrid, with the exception of how the two DMs work.

Results:

1. Arsenal (no transfers)

2. Wolves (sold a few players, made a few transfers)

(This was easily one of the most exciting games I've had in any FM. The title was decided in the very last match of the season. Sadly, my team completely

imploded under the pressure and registred their greatest defeat of the season when it mattered the most, a shamefull 4-0 loss to title rivals Arsenal an the Emirates.

Had we won, we would have been champions but it was a great season nevertheless, and we managed to beat United, City and Tottenham away amongst others.)

3. One of my best matches with Wolves:

Main Features:

- Compact formation that leaves little space between the lines, solid defensively against most formations and styles.

- Short passing, relatively high tempo with an emphasis on counter attacking and intricate passing patterns.

- Ball retention. The tactic aims to only take a shot when there is a real chance of scoring, and move the ball forward when the opposition's defense is vulnerable instead of gifting the ball through rushed attempts.

- Against quality opposition the possession is usually 50-50, against weaker teams it can go to 60-70% in your favour depending on your team and the oppossition.

- It does not require a very high overall team quality, provided you understand how it works and what players to use (more on this later).

- Uses inverted wingers. This is crucial for the current attacking setup.

- Constant, fluid movement by the forwards and patient build up play can be quite beautiful to watch at times.

Stuff You Must Do Before And During Games:

1. It is mandatory that you use OIs to always close down and show on weaker foot for the oppossition wingers.

2. If you are playing against a team with extremely agressive fullbacks or you see that the opponent is moving his fullbacks extremely high up the pitch in order to cross from

the byline, go to the tactic screen and set your wingers to specific mark their respective fullback.

3. You can use the show on weaker foot OI for other players you might deem usefull, but never use the closing down or tackling settings as it can jeopardise your

defensive function.

4. Always watch games in at least Key highlights. Personaly I watch important/difficult games in Extended but to each his own. It is crucial to lower the tackling settings to normal or easy (depending

on how brave you are) for any player that gets booked. It is equaly important to watch out for any changes in the opposition's formation and adjust your OIs immediately.

5. Since the corners are aimed at the far post make sure you always use a left footed player for right corners and right footed player for left corners. This makes a huge difference and even players with low corner attribute but with the "wrong" foot will work a lot better.

Match Preparation:

I always have it on the highest workload untill my team are accomplished in most areas, then lower it a bit. Since the main threat for your defensive record will be set pieces, I reccomend leaving it on Defending Set Pieces at all times, unless you sign new players and need your team to gel. It is very important for your team to get accustomed to your tactics, so arrange as many pre - season friendlies as possible. In my Wolves game for instance, in the first half of the season I really strugled to score and conceded many soft goals. Once my team became accomplished in most areas of my tactic I stoped conceding and starting playing really well up front. In the second part of the season I had only two defeats, conceded half the goals I previously had, and went from 7th position to title contenders.

Pitch Size:

Either minimum or narrow, or long and narrow I haven't tested all these combinations yet. Generally try and limit the width of the pitch as much as possible.

Team Talks, Mind Games, Media Handling and Chatting With Players

This is easily one of the most important areas of FM '11, possibly even more important than the tactic itself. There are a lot of guides out there so I would only like to state the obvious: use common sense. Always be honest with your team. When the team or a player is not performing, let them know it. When he is doing well, praise him. Always try to put pressure on the other managers. Make sure your team does not become complacent if you are a top side, or loose confidence after a few defeats (this especialy is a horrible scenario and it's quite hard to turn around). Be strict but fair. All that stuff. One can not stress the importance of man managment and morale in FM '11 - quite often it is what makes or breaks a team, provided you are using a moderately reasonable tactic.

Players You Need

First of all make sure you have a large enough squad, and that you train players in as many positions as possble according to their attributes. I would generally reccomend taking a look at SFraser's excellent team building posts. A qucik glance at players roles and what attributes to look for:

ST: This is basically a "false nine", or in other terms a Complete Forward. He needs to be able to drop deep and roam to create space for others, dribble and turn the defenders to create chances for himself, attempt killer passes, hold the ball and score though any means possible. There are not many strikers who can fullfil all these criteria perfectly. Personaly, I would prefer a "jack of all trades" here than a specialist striker like a target man or poacher. Fletcher for my Wolves team and Van Persie (at least on the few occassions when he wasn't injured) were brilliant in this role.

AMC: needs to score, pass, dribble and move into space off the ball

Wingers: go for the AM/ST type of winger, they need to dribble, pass, move into space and score. If they have low finishing teach them to round the keeper. The most important thing is that they are inverted wingers - left footed if they play on the right wing and vice versa. You can retrain any players you think suitable for this possition though.

DM left: all that matters is that he can defend.

DM right: should be a bit more technicaly gifted than the other one but the emphasis is still on the defense. Having a high score in the Long Shot attribute will get you a considerable amount of goals.

DL: an offensive wingback

DR: a more defensive fullback. Should still be fast, never use slow fullbacks no matter what their other defensive qualities may be. Also, if your fullbacks are not horrible in the air it will save you from conceding a few goals from crosses aimed at the far post.

DC left: a quicker, more agile player with good positioning and anticipation (the Cravalho role in Mourinho's Chelsea side or Ferdinand's role at United for example)

DC right: an aerial powerhouse and good tackler (the Terry role at Chelsea or Vidic at United)

GK: a good shot stopper that can deal with crosses. He won't be doing much sweeping.

What You Can (and are encouraged to) Tinker With

The offensive part. You might like a more direct aproach, or you migh have a thing for attacking down the flanks or you have this DM in your team with a great long shot attribute. The Tempo and Time Wasting settings are the default TC settings for short passing/control. The passing length I shamesly copied from Mr.Hough's winger tactic for FM 10 (with an exception or two), just because I really liked how it looked on the pitch, and because it worked well for my tactic. I have experimented with both shorter and more direct passing settings and it can still work, but I like the current setting from an aeshetic point of view and it really worked well for me. So credit here to Mr.Hough and his beautiful tactic.

Generally, feel free to tinker with any of the attacking settings (passing, RFD, RWB, crossing etc) for the wingers, strikers, fullbacks and DMs if you feel like it, although personaly I remain a big fan of the short passing school of thought for a variety of reasons. The core of the tactic really is the mentality framework, closing down, and defensive settings.

Under The Hood - A Brief Explanation of the Framework And Slider Settings

The purpose of this tactic is to try and always have a "spare man", someone to cover if one of your players makes a mistake. The idea for the framework is to have a basic "Nike" setting for your back four, and a second "Nike" in front of it. Now, for a deep 4-2-3-1 in particular that would mean that the "midfield nike", would include the two DMs acting as DCs, the AMC taking the role of the DM, and the wingers as fullbacks. Now the difference here is obviously that the DMs, wingers, and AMCs are positioned in a slightly differentl way than that of a back four with a DM in front.

To adress this issue, I followed a simple rule. Lets assume that the pitch can be devided in 3 lines: the defense (where the CBs are), the midfield (where the MCs are) and the attack (where the STs are). The DMs and AMCs are "between" the lines, and the distance between, say, DCs and DMs is "half a line". Now, I described earlier how the "midfield nike" (horrible desciption but I don't know what to call it!) had the problem that that AMC and wingers where higher up the pitch than they would be in a normal nike defensive line. In the terms we mentioned above, assuming the DMs are the "base" of the defensive line, the wingers and are an entire "line" higher on the pitch than they would normally be, and the AMC would be "half a line" higher, since in a normal nike defense the fullbacks are level with the DCs and the DM is just half a line in front of them. Therefore, to solve this issue and force the players positioned higher up the pitch to drop deeper, we substract 1 notch of their mentality for every half a line they are positioned higher compared to where they would be in a "basic" nike. (* you can apply a similar rule and substrack more than one notch but your team might end up being too compact)

To better explain this, a basic "nike" defensive line (meaning, the DCs, FB, and DM) could look something like this (numbers represent the mentalities of each position):

Now, assuming the DM of the "basic" nike structure is the deeper (left) DM of the 4-2-3-1, and applying the rule we described above when substracting mentality notches, a deep 4-2-3-1 framework would look like this:

The striker's mentality is equal to that of the "cover" DC in order to make him drop deep and take part in the build up play.There is one thing I must mention here: after observing countless matches, I noticed that for my own, more offensive framework (the lowest DC has a mentality of 9), I noticed the AMC was not droping as deep as I would like and the fullbacks played slightly higher than I wanted to, so I lowered their mentalities by a further one notch compared to the framework settings I described above. Generally, I feel the most vulnerable area of possibly any tactic in FM 11 is the area behind your fullbacks and between the fullbacks and the DCs. So if you feel your fullbacks aren't really that great and you see too many balls played over the top in the space behind them you could try to further decrease their mentality by 1 or two notches, but personally I would not reccomend lowering it more than 1 above your most defensive DC. Finally, I would like to mention that the same basic rule of substracting 1 notch for every "half line" can be applied in order to fit any formation into this framework. For the time being I have not tested any other formations extensively, but I intend to do so in the future.

P.S. Any comments, questions and criticism are more that welcome but please, make sure they are well documented.

patch 11.1.1?

patch 11.1.1?

Any one else getting Fooked off with posts like this?

Great opening post Elhan , going give this a test run , was going to goto bed , but ill play a few games with this see how it goes =)

All the screenshots I posted where in 11.1, I was testing it in 11.1.1 with Fiorentina but I did not have time to finish the entire season, the tactic worked just as well so I just posted the screenshots of my previous results.

exactly the formation i was trying to use, 4231 with 2 DMs, gonna give this a try.

i play with a very similiar tactic that i created by studying tactical theorems appendix with my southampton squad. your mentality settings really solved my positioning mistakes and increased possession. thank you for sharing.

how you try pressure on the other managers???on pre match conferencions??can you write shortly your team talks,please?

Nice Post , Nice results , I'm go tested )

12 goals conceded with Arsenal? Bloody good work sir!

12 goals conceded with Arsenal? Bloody good work sir!

Arsenal defenders are a lot better in FM than they really are. If only Wenger used real scouts instead of FM ones when looking for new players, Arsenal might actually win something...

So for the false 9, what attributes would you recommend?

Obviously there's finishing and I'd assume off the ball...but what else?

And for the AMC, passing, creativity, finishing, dribbling, decisions, off the ball?

Great stuff with Wolves btw.

EDIT: Oh and you also mention getting your wingers to specifically mark attacking fullbacks...How is this done?

So for the false 9, what attributes would you recommend?

Obviously there's finishing and I'd assume off the ball...but what else?

And for the AMC, passing, creativity, finishing, dribbling, decisions, off the ball?

Great stuff with Wolves btw.

EDIT: Oh and you also mention getting your wingers to specifically mark attacking fullbacks...How is this done?

Generaly try to get a striker who is technical, and has no glaring weaknesses like being very slow or very weak, or has too low balance, or can't pass a ball. A bad example for this role would be a player like Alberto Paloschi who is an otherwise great poacher. It's hard to pick a few specific attributes to focus on to be honest, you just need a guy who is good (but not neccessarily great) at everything. Personaly my best performer in this role out of 3 games I have played (arsenal, wolves, fiorentina) was by far Steven Fletcher. Lukaku might work if you can sign him cheap, although I haven't tried him myself. You might want to experiment a bit with whatever strikers your team has before signing anyone. Ideally, you would have someone like Berbatov of Van Persie playing there. Please keep in mind what I said about the team gelling though, in my experience so far my teams struggled a bit offensively untill they became accomplished in most areas of the tactic.

As for the AMC again the requirements aren't too strict, but he generally needs to be a "Kaka" type of AMC, not a "Riquelme". Flair, creativity, passing would probably be the top attributes I would look for, as long as he isn't too slow, or too bad a finisher. Generally, AMCs that can also play as strikers work great here. The two best players I have had in my games in this position were Matias Fernandez and John Fleck (both are also excellent on the wings).

About the specific marking, you just go to the tactics screen, choose the player you want, and change his marking from "zona"l to "specific marking", then choose the fullback he should be picking from the menu that will appear. You can only do this during a match.

P.S. The "plays one -twos" ppm is quite helpfull for all the front 4 players.

Cheers. What do you think of this guy for the false 9? Is he too small?

BTW, I'm playing in the Swiss Super League, so he is not going to have to be Premiership quality.

http://oi54.tinypic.com/2rrkls5.jpg

EDIT: Also found this guy...

http://i53.tinypic.com/iz5l36.jpg

Both of them should work really, the first guy having only 10 stamina will probably exhaust himself, even though the striker's closing down is set to 0. Probably due to the "free role" setting, he does too much running around. You can experiment a bit and try without it if your strikers are getting tired too soon.

first of all i want to say that i ve tryed to create a tactic with the same purpose, and i t looked JUST LIKE YOURS...

i had my left back full attack (like a hidden winger) ,my right back working like a stopper, and cover to DCR so when attacking it was like i had 3 DCs behind (DCL - DCR (SW) - DR), my left DM ultra defensive to cover the left back and the same formation up front with the only difference that my left winger was an inside forward (and the left back coming forward by hugging touchline and being a winger) like yours but my right winger was a playmaker...all these with classic tactic creator like you...

i managed in my first matches in PL to achive the thing you say...SOLID defence, and to any opportunity to score...my opponent had many shots but 0-2 CCC, and i had 6-7-8 shots with 3-4 CCC...

but after 5-6 matches i think the ME learned my tactic and i was OWNED by most of the teams by losing 4-0 etc with a lot of CCC...most of them created by my left wing...so i quit...

I AM VERY HAPPY to see that an idea like that (SOLID DEFENCE, LITTLE SHOTS BUT CLEAR CUT) is POSSIBLE to work to the ME, and i think this tactic is the proof, what a great game FM is (in the tactics area besides all the other REALISM)......and thats because i think the easy (not so easy but easiest) part of tactics is to create an attacking tactic...but SOLID SUCCESFULL tactics for lower teams (like wolves) or for top teams from low countries to champions league is very difficult...after hours of testing to create one i though it was IMPOSSIBLE...its good you prove this wrong

CONGRATS...i ve already star using it

@ HTC

Thank you. Personaly I find double pivot systems work much better in FM 11 than in FM 10 for whatever reason. Good luck with it - I would reccomend patience if you get a few too many draws at first, for some reason the attacking part takes more time, in my experience, to start ticking. It's a bit wierd really, but it happened on all 3 teams I've tried it on so it can't be a coincidence - perhaps it is because I always set the match preparation to defending set pieces.

Quote from the opening post:

"Stuff You Must Do Before And During Games:

1. It is mandatory that you use OIs to always close down and show on weaker foot for the oppossition wingers.

3. You can use the show on weaker foot OI for other players you might deem usefull, but never use the closing down or tackling settings as it can jeopardise your

defensive function".

Is this a mistake or do you mean never close down anyone apart form the wingers?

Thank you very much for sharing this tactic. The defense is working wonderfully and it is a joy not to see my centre and full backs runnig around like headless chickens anymore. This tactic also stopped me fearing the away matches.

Additionally it provides beautiful passing football at times. I will post a download link to a video of a match where some marvellous goals have been scored. I used the attacking movement match preparation.

Here is the link: http://www.filefront.com/17571859/HSV-v-Hertha-BSC-24022013.pkm/

Great tactic mate fair play , been using this on random teams for 10-20 games each just to see how the tactic itself ticks ,

One way I do conceede golas from those is bloody free kicks.

Free kick gets taken goes towards the back post and its either headed in or the player slides with his feet to knock it in grrrrrr .

I have set heavy workload and defend set pieces in match prep but to no avail.

I have a great defensive corner routine just those pesky freekicks

Quote from the opening post:

"Stuff You Must Do Before And During Games:

1. It is mandatory that you use OIs to always close down and show on weaker foot for the oppossition wingers.

3. You can use the show on weaker foot OI for other players you might deem usefull, but never use the closing down or tackling settings as it can jeopardise your

defensive function".

Is this a mistake or do you mean never close down anyone apart form the wingers?

I am not refering to the slider settings but the Opposition Instructions (OI). What I mean is that using the OI option "close down at all times" on players other than wingers, can often be a risk not worth taking. Generally, your Assistant Manager, if asked, will identify a key player in the opponent's squad and will suggest that you should set the OI ""close down at all times" on him. For me, this can cause more trouble that it is worth for the simple reason that if that player is a striker or even a midfielder he migh be closed in by the wrong player (a DC for example), completely destroying your defensive setup.

On the other hand, wingers play on the flanks, and they will always be closed down by the fullbacks,DMs and sometimes your own wingers, wich are exactly the players you want to use in order to close them down immediately and prevent crosses. So, to summarise, always use the OI option "close down at all times" on the wingers, and never use it on anyone else, the closing down sliders will do the job by themselves.

@ andrjam

Thanks for the observation, I will take a closer look at the settings for defending free kicks and see if there is anything I could improve. If you come up with a better setting for either attacking or defending set pieces, feel free to upload your own tweak and share with the rest.

I am not refering to the slider settings but the Opposition Instructions (OI). What I mean is that using the OI option "close down at all times" on players other than wingers, can often be a risk not worth taking. Generally, your Assistant Manager, if asked, will identify a key player in the opponent's squad and will suggest that you should set the OI ""close down at all times" on him. For me, this can cause more trouble that it is worth for the simple reason that if that player is a striker or even a midfielder he migh be closed in by the wrong player (a DC for example), completely destroying your defensive setup.

On the other hand, wingers play on the flanks, and they will always be closed down by the fullbacks,DMs and sometimes your own wingers, wich are exactly the players you want to use in order to close them down immediately and prevent crosses. So, to summarise, always use the OI option "close down at all times" on the wingers, and never use it on anyone else, the closing down sliders will do the job by themselves.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Can i just say i'm very impressed not only with the tactic, but the way you have presented in on here.

Also unbeaten with Arsenal and the loss of only 12 goals and almost winning the league with Wolves are a testament to how solid this tatic is.

I'll be using this tactic and following this thread.

Hey mate I honestly believe you have created a great tactic , the amount of attacking tactics on here and other FM forums just goes to show how difficult it is to produce a tactic that defends well AND attacks with finesse absolutly wonderful some of the movement I have seen using this on random teams , I am now using it on my Swansea save , was using a deep 4-2-3-1 myself hopefully my players can adapt nicely to this

3 games into the season , just got an impressive 0-0 draw away to porto in the Champions league qualifyer , all i did was lower the defensive line a notch or two so I could conatin Hulk better and it worked a dream .

beat Birmingham 3-1 at home a howler from my keeper around the 80th min was the only blemish on that defensive display.

Currently beating Fulham away 3-0

I can post up what Im using for a defensive corner routine if you like mate , also trying aout a all out defend "defensive Free kick routine" see how that goes .

Thanks andrjam. Sure, if you come up with a rutine that worked better for you go ahead and post it, others could find it usefull.

Sorry for the shameless self-promoting here but I can't help myself:

Forget about Messi, Ebanks-Blake is the best player in the world! Well maybe not, but Barca just couldn't handle my counterattacks. The possession was pretty good as well given the quality of the two squads.

Must be something....Wolves beat the crap of barca...

quite nicely done....won 5-1 the first game as Liverpool beated Blackburn....1 scored in fk, 1 in corner, 1 own goal and 2 nice goal!!!

2nd game away to Spurs....won 2-0

Excellent tactic, just given a 5 game trial with my struggling Margate side

Pld5 W4 D0 L1 F9 A3

Very impressed so far, and all this without my first choice striker

Anyone else with lower league using this? I'm holding off starting a proper game till patch 11.2 comes out and would like to know if it works with rubbish teams.

Yop, playing with CO Desportivo in Portugal, Segunda Divisao ZS (3rd division).

P: 10

W: 7

D: 2

L: 1

F: 25

A: 12

Including a win in Taca de Portugal (portuguese cup) over FC Rio Ave from Supertaca (1st division) with 3:2

Excellent tactic, just given a 5 game trial with my struggling Margate side

Pld5 W4 D0 L1 F9 A3

Very impressed so far, and all this without my first choice striker

UPDATE

Pld15 W11 D1 L3

This tactic really is excellent and should be getting more coverage, it has propelled me into the playoffs and i am pretty sure if had used this from the start of the season i would have the best defense in the league. I relly enjoy watching it in 3d, the way the players close down is first rate 10/10

I have played just around 10 games, I am liverpool.

strength:

score a few from corner, and pick up some PK from foul in corners!!! All my strikers couldnt convert them!

Defensively quite good! Just concentrate on defensice set piece.

Pick up quite a few straight red cards....but still i couldn't lose those games!!!

Weakness:

My AL and AR are not scoring or assisting much yet....do they supposed to score or assist?! If I put left foot on the AL, would he assist more?!

Not really scoring great yet for me, perhaps still need time to gel.

I'll give this tactic a try. Solid defending is what I'm looking for. Let's see how it goes in my Ipswich game, I'll update with the results.

I have played just around 10 games, I am liverpool.

strength:

score a few from corner, and pick up some PK from foul in corners!!! All my strikers couldnt convert them!

Defensively quite good! Just concentrate on defensice set piece.

Pick up quite a few straight red cards....but still i couldn't lose those games!!!

Weakness:

My AL and AR are not scoring or assisting much yet....do they supposed to score or assist?! If I put left foot on the AL, would he assist more?!

Not really scoring great yet for me, perhaps still need time to gel.

They are supposed to both score and assist. As I have already stated in the original post you should always use inverted wingers, meaning left footed as AMR, right footed as AML otherwise they won't be of much use. With liverpool I would play Torres up front, Gerard as AMC, Babel as AML, Jovanovic as AMR (in FM he is actually good). Sign up a cheap cover for Jovanovic as he has very low stamina and he might need to be substituted early.

I've been doing a few one season games with sunderland to test out a few tactics from here, seen your post and was ready for a new game so i thought i'd see how i get on with your tactic.

I'm only 4 games in so far but got off to a very positive start, pre-season went really good and so did the first 4 prem games

Results so far

The West Ham game was great to watch, the passing was like something you see from Arsenal when they turn on the style, totally dominated the game from start to finish. The Man U game was a bit tougher (for the obvious reasons) but we looked solid at the back, they threw everything at us but just couldn't break us down, you've definitely name the tactic 'Super defense' for a reason lol

There is one thing i've noticed happening with the opposition, usually second half (i say usually but it's happened every game so far) change formation, always a narrow looking formation aswell (no wingers)

Typical formation change

Is this happening for you ? maybe a possible chance to exploit the wings ?

Another thing aswell, considering the players are on hard tackling i havn't been getting many bookings, maybe just luck or a lenient referee.

Anyway, i'm really enjoying your tactic and i'm sure it's going to give Sunderland a cracking season, i'll follow everything you mentioned i.e closing down/weaker foot on wingers and lowering tackling when a players carded ect

Will post screenies throughout the season.

Edit : i was meant to highlight the Man U formation in the 2nd screen shot

That's a really interesting observation. I think I've only noticed this happen once or twice but it did seem weird to me at the time. My only guess is that the AI is trying to have 3 DCs to better cope with your wingers, who often act as forwards as they move into channels etc. I don't know how trying to exploit the wings would work in all honesty, but for me this formation Man Utd are using in your screenshot doesn't really seem a good counter to 4-2-3-1. It's biggest problem would probably be marking the AMC and the striker droping deep, since they have no DM to cover the area in front of their defensive line. This is all theoretical though, I really haven't played against 5 man defenses much, not even in Italy. Interesting stuff nevertheless!

Well the last 2 games the AI didn't change formation, but i lost one and drew the other one, so maybe they're doing it when i'm winning, i'll keep my eye out in future games to see what happens.

I'll post some more results when i'm 13 or so games in.

They are supposed to both score and assist. As I have already stated in the original post you should always use inverted wingers, meaning left footed as AMR, right footed as AML otherwise they won't be of much use. With liverpool I would play Torres up front, Gerard as AMC, Babel as AML, Jovanovic as AMR (in FM he is actually good). Sign up a cheap cover for Jovanovic as he has very low stamina and he might need to be substituted early.

Thanks for your reply. I overtook Liverpool in the middle of the 4th season so no re more Torres and Gerald. I had to rebuild the whole squad and that's the fun in

Another weakness of this tactics....

I get so many straight red cards....

Another weakness of this tactics....

I get so many straight red cards....

If the tackling settings are too much for you, lower them all to normal, try keep it for at least the fullbacks though. Geneally forwards and wingers don't have high agression so it's not very likely they will get straight reds anyway, and personaly, I find hard tackling for most players a risk well worth taking. But I understand it might not be for everyone.

Are you lowering the players tackling if he receives a yellow card ? are you taking into account the leniency or strictness of the referees ?

thanks for your comment....However I mentioned straight red cards, which means that he gets directly a red card rather than 2 red cards.

If the tackling settings are too much for you, lower them all to normal, try keep it for at least the fullbacks though. Geneally forwards and wingers don't have high agression so it's not very likely they will get straight reds anyway, and personaly, I find hard tackling for most players a risk well worth taking. But I understand it might not be for everyone.

thanks...will try it out....my wingbacks were the ones who got straight red most....

by the way a question...if you are NOT playing well and under extensive pressing and attack, do you:

1) Play more defensively in mental way?

2) put higher time wasting?

3)...?!

by the way a question...if you are NOT playing well and under extensive pressing and attack, do you:

1) Play more defensively in mental way?

2) put higher time wasting?

3)...?!

If you are being outplayed for no obvious reason*, for me, it's better to make a drastic change rather than try to make small adjustments. Take a risk and do something that might make a difference, like switching to another tactic altogether to surprise your opponent or make an early substitution and bring in a player who you know can be a match winner. You can also wait for the halftime and hope your teamtalk can turn it around. In my experience however, if you are being totally outplayed your chances aren't looking that good anyway. Some games you are just "ment" to loose, meaning the sum of a variety of factors (psychological, weather, etc etc) is so much in your opponent's favour that you really can't do much.

* "For no obvious reason" means that it's not something specific your opponent is doing, like taking advantage of a weakness in your formation, but rather just playing much better than you all over the pitch.

Doing reeally well so far really sound in defence and scores plenty aswell only problem with goals conceeded are a through ball between my two central defenders striker runs onto it and its a goal

Not sure how to combat this any ideas?

some ideas ,

1, increase closing down and mentality of goalkeeper?

2, narrow the width although im sure the width setting does not effect defensive play to a certain degree

thanks for your comment....However I mentioned straight red cards, which means that he gets directly a red card rather than 2 red cards.

Anyway, onto some more results, not doing too great atm but sitting in 8th place after 10 games so i can't complain, only thing i would like is to keep a clean sheet, 10 for and 10 against in the last 8 games, but i'm sure the clean sheets will come eventually, Rome wasn't built in a day theory.

Results so far

The team are starting to get used to the tactic tho, slowly but surely

Match Prep so far

I think it's only a matter of time before we go on a good run, i'll post more results in 10 games or so.

and regarding the corner....do you mean that with a high corner stat taker is better than a left footer with low stat on the right side?!

Left foot -> right corner and right foot -> left corner regardless of his corner attribute. It is a simple matter of physics, if a right footed player hits a right corner, the ball will be spinning counterclockwise and this will result in the ball moving away from the goal. The player sitting at the far post will need to move away from the goal as well in order to hit the ball so the resulting header will loose both speed and accuracy. The same principle applies if a left footed player hits a left side corner.