How do you get a win, when the AI doesn't want to give you one ?

Yeah, we have all been there at some point in our CM/FM careers.

Our players are vastly superior, and can normally knock 6/7 goals past the opposition every game, whether it is home or away. Then along comes a dreaded match against vastly inferior opposition where the AI just will not let you win, your players are just knocking it about instead of giving you the penetration and chances you normally get.

So, what to do to get that result ??

In CM4 I would wait till 60-65 mins and if it wasn't cutting the mustard for me (as manager and watching the highlights etc), I would think, ok, let the AI play the AI. So I would just pause the match, make any final subs etc, then go on holiday and let the AI play the AI for those last 25-30 mins.

It was surprising how many times I would then score almost immediately upon viewing the match highlights when the game was over.

Seems that the AI would have times when it wouldn't let YOU win, but your team would get the win anyway if you went AI vs AI. (As if there were 2 different ME's, one for actually watching a match as it was played, and another for AI vs AI)

Anyone found any suitable workarounds for FM 2010 in those dreaded situations ??

Can't say I have tried the CM4 method yet as I am in a relatively low lg and steamroller the opposition.

There is no such thing.

Why do people keep thinking SI or any game studio would develop a game that screws over paying cutomers?

Maybe you're just not very good.

Well, technically the AI should never want to give you a win....

(flame shield at the ready)

its your tactic mate

LOL at this conspiracy

(flame shield at the ready)

its your tactic mate

Never has this response been so right

It would be scary if the AI wanted to "give me one".

Use the 'match fixing' cheat.

For more information contact bruce.grobbelaar@howtomatchfix.zw

Why do people keep thinking SI or any game studio would develop a game that screws over paying cutomers?

Not saying there is such a thing in FM but nearly every game does cheat in one way or another. The reason is quite simple - to keep the AI competitive with human players.

Not saying there is such a thing in FM but nearly every game does cheat in one way or another. The reason is quite simple - to keep the AI competitive with human players.

The game doesn't cheat. Period.

Don't be ridiculous, there is no code in the game to make the 'AI competitive' - if you can't win a match then I'd point the finger at your players morale or your tactics not working well against theirs.

1. He didn't say there was in FM, he explicitly stated so.

2. He is correct about many games (especially RTS games) having "cheating" AI.

Don't be ridiculous, there is no code in the game to make the 'AI competitive' - if you can't win a match then I'd point the finger at your players morale or your tactics not working well against theirs.

I never said the AI in FM cheats did I? My reply was in response to Tomer's question why would any game studio "screw over" paying customers. Plenty of games do it, PES, FIFA, they all cheat on higher difficulty levels to make the AI competitive.

1. He didn't say there was in FM, he explicitly stated so.

2. He is correct about many games (especially RTS games) having "cheating" AI.

Tell me, how does the AI cheat?

Tell me, how does the AI cheat?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_artificial_intelligence#Cheating_AI

Have a read.

I never said the AI in FM cheats did I? My reply was in response to Tomer's question why would any game studio "screw over" paying customers. Plenty of games do it, PES, FIFA, they all cheat on higher difficulty levels to make the AI competitive.

Enlighten me then, how do games like PES and Fifa (and RTS games) cheat?

Valid question, by the way, not trolling. I just find it very hard to believe.

Enlighten me then, how do games like PES and Fifa (and RTS games) cheat?

Valid question, by the way, not trolling. I just find it very hard to believe.

The link posted above does actually explain it to some extent. It's a very rough description, but still worth thought.

The link posted above does actually explain it to some extent. It's a very rough description, but still worth thought.

Yeah, I just read that after I posted it. Never really looked at it like that.

That said, I'm not sure if there are many games that cheat like that. Thena gain, I don't play a whole load of games

Also, it's a little different than the kind of cheating the OP refers to.

The AI is not a single identity in FM. Also, is had been said that the ME part of the AI cannot distinguish between human and AI teams, so rubber banding cannot happen.

1. He didn't say there was in FM, he explicitly stated so.

2. He is correct about many games (especially RTS games) having "cheating" AI.

Is FM an RTS?

So the point is.............?

Is FM an RTS?

So the point is.............?

Read Rista's post #14 and I sincerely hope you get the point of my post. Of his too hopefully.

Read Rista's post #14 and I sincerely hope you get the point of my post. Of his too hopefully.

Got it. Sorry must admit I was posting while having half an eye on work (I'm sure my boss would be happy to know it was my posting that was half arsed and not my work).

Totally understood. Ignore what I said.

Got it. Sorry must admit I was posting while having half an eye on work (I'm sure my boss would be happy to know it was my posting that was half arsed and not my work).

Totally understood. Ignore what I said.

No worries, I do the same thing all the time.

No worries, I do the same thing all the time.

SCIAG, you have your imitator!!

SCIAG, you have your imitator!!

I noticed

Technically, 'cheating AI' is referred to as 'catch-up AI' in code. It allows the games that incorporate it (EA not FM) to make the game more competitive. Trust me, you wouldn't want to play those games if you won all the time by 10 goals. As to FM having cheating AI...not a chance. The game is decided before you watch it. The only time it changes is when you change an input like a substitution, touchline shout or tactical change.

I found a Champions League final recently un-winable, was playing as Man Utd against Real Madrid, played the match 10 times and lost everyone. I then used the FMRTE to destory the Real Madrid Team and its reserves. Played the match again and they still won. Went back and this time banned all their Keepers from being selectable and most of their defenders. This time won the match - but only on penalties. Then when I clicked continue after the post-match team talk I apparently lost the match 1-0 with no mention of Penalties.

So someone care to explain that one?

Don't be ridiculous, there is no code in the game to make the 'AI competitive' - if you can't win a match then I'd point the finger at your players morale or your tactics not working well against theirs.

I'm not saying that the AI/ME 'cheats' or 'tries to be competitve', just that at times it behaves in what I would call 'a strange way'.

Using CM4 as my main example since it is the version I have the most experience with.

I had a team in the English Conference. 1st season filled with players I bought for nothing from a parent club (Florentia Viola) who at that time were in the lowest level playable in Italy and I wanted the challenge of taking 2 clubs to the top from the bottom.

With Florentia I managed to get every possible 'free transfer' that was available at start of game who could be sold to other clubs for a lot of cash, e.g Ivan Hurtado who I could flog to Barca, etc etc, and without cheating figured out how to prise Marcos (the Brazil goalie) from Palmeiras and who I also flogged immediately to Barca for 9 million.

After my whealing and dealing, I had something like 55 million pounds for transfers available in that 1st season. And bought the best players who actually wanted to play for Florentia in that low division (Serie C2 Central) (so no superstars etc). I lobbed 2 teams worth of those players (22) including Anatoli Todorov etc, into my Conference side.

The team was SO good, I was even winning the FA Cup and even the UEFA Cup (deliberately stayed down to see if it was possible) from the English Conference. And was scoring on average around 7-10 goals without reply EVERY league game home and away.

HOWEVER, there were ALWAYS maybe 2-3 league games in the season, where the opposition would all play like Pele etc, even though their attributes were utterly rubbish. And in such games, my players would all play crap and find it extremely difficult to get that victory to keep a perfect league season alive. (42, 0, 0)

And it wasn't because my players were tired etc, because I would sometimes field my '2nd team' (but still vastly superior to anything else in the Conference) so that I wasn't playing the same 11 every couple of days, which is what happened after new year if you were still going strong in all cups.

A team who scores 7-10 a game every game just DOESN'T suddenly stop scoring in a given game against woeful opposition for no apparent reason, when none are unhappy, full morale etc etc.

HOWEVER since the game is essentially run on mathematics and RNG's, so that every game will give a completely different outcome, i.e load up the same game, play the same match over and over again, and you won't have exactly the same number of passes, actions etc from every player each time that match is played and played and played.

You WILL therefore inevitably come across a match where your RNG value is incredibly low, and the opposition's is v high, so that no matter how good your players are compared to theirs, the ME/AI simply won't 'allow' your players to play to the standard they have been playing at in every other match.

And then immediately after that 'strange' match, it's back to wham bam thank you ma'am 7-10 goals a game time again.

So not winning a particular match you would expect to, isn't about tacs, morale, team talk etc. It's about the v low RNG that was generated for all the match variables just before the match started.

I'm guessing it is the same low RNG that is generated whenever a cupset takes place for the AI teams vs the AI teams.

In CM4, I would put the % chance of recieving that RNG at about 4-5 % based on the thousands of hours of playing and observing that edition. (And which (probably coincidentally) is 1 in 20, the same range of values for all the attributes of each player).