How to achieve striker movement a la Lukaku/Haaland?

[kandersson]

Yesterday I watched Haaland and Lukaku scoring goals for their teams after some of their typical movement on and off the ball (Haaland goal at 4:50 of first clip; Lukaku's at 1:10 of the second):

https://streamable.com/8u4dpq

I always found these type of movement and chances very difficult to re-create in FM. Of course I guess it takes a rare type of big, pacey, intelligent target man, which is the case for players like Haaland and Lukaku. Personally I'd see both of them as strikers on Attack duty in FM (maybe CF/A?) because they tend to be main source of goals for their teams and push the opponents defensive line. Still, as seen in yesterday's goals, they also like to come deep to get ball and play with back to goal, in order to start one-twos and then attack the box to receive the ball in space at full speed.

I imagine this might be replicated with an Attack duty plus specific Player Traits (Comes Deep to get Ball, Plays with Back to Goal, Plays One-twos, Gets Into Opposition Area), though it's worth to note neither of Haaland and Lukaku have these Traits in FM, and actually you can't have a player learn both 'Comes Deep to Get Ball' and 'Gets into Opposition Area' (or even 'Likes to try to beat Offside Trap) traits if I recall correctly.

Alternatively you could maybe use them as a False Nine to re-create the movement of coming deep to get ball, plus training specific Player Traits (Plays with Back to Goal, Plays One-twos, Gets Into Opposition Area), though a support duty for Haaland and Lukaku doesn't seem very intuitive to me.

I'not sure if it's a 'trait' of ME or tactical issues, though i have to say I have very rarely seen this type of movement from strikers (mine or AI) in FM20, and generally I feel movement of offensive players should be more fluid and versatile regardless of roles and duties. Anyway I would like to hear some ideas to achieve these particular movement and chances in FM.

Edited October 25, 2020 by kandersson

[zabyl]

Earlier FM's from FM19 there is a PI for support forward roles "get further forward". I preferred using it with a support duty forward role instead of attack duty forward roles. Because i know training a player to learn a trait like "comes deep to get the ball" , "gets into opposition area" and "likes to try to beat offside trap" or etc. takes time. 

 

I don't know why they remove that PI from support forward roles.

 

So I'm agree with you about their movement.  In my opinion; they can play like in real football with a CFa role combined with certain traits.

Edited October 25, 2020 by zabyl
corrected some text

[Experienced Defender]

In terms of role, Haaland's movement mostly resembles a DLF on attack duty. But a behavior of a player in FM (including his attacking movement) is affected not only by his own role (+ player traits + attributes), but also the rest of the tactic. And that's exactly where most people playing FM make mistakes - viewing things in isolation instead of taking the big picture into account. 

As for Lukaku, I cannot open the video anyway (says it's unavailable). 

[kandersson]

3 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

In terms of role, Haaland's movement mostly resembles a DLF on attack duty. But a behavior of a player in FM (including his attacking movement) is affected not only by his own role (+ player traits + attributes), but also the rest of the tactic. And that's exactly where most people playing FM make mistakes - viewing things in isolation instead of taking the big picture into account. 

As for Lukaku, I cannot open the video anyway (says it's unavailable). 

Well in this case I'd say it's also part of Haaland's skill-set as I've seen him performing the same movements at Salzburg in an attacking 442 and now at Dortmund in a creative 3421, or a 4231 like this latest goal. Anyway, any suggestion of a tactical set-up that encourages this type of movement for the strikers is welcome.

[Experienced Defender]

37 minutes ago, kandersson said:

Anyway, any suggestion of a tactical set-up that encourages this type of movement for the strikers is welcome

In which formation?

[Johnny Ace]

I watched the Dortmund game, I don't think Haaland's movement in FM is possible tbh 

[kandersson]

19 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

In which formation?

I tend to favor 4231 or 442 myself, usually aiming to implement a style similar to Ralf Rangnick at Leipzig (or even Salzburg). Would like to fully take advantage of a strong, athletic striker who can both come deep and play with back to goal, and then sprint into opposition area at full speed. Maybe something to try again in FM21.

[Experienced Defender]

59 minutes ago, kandersson said:

I tend to favor 4231 or 442 myself, usually aiming to implement a style similar to Ralf Rangnick at Leipzig (or even Salzburg)

Unfortunately, I am not familiar (enough) with the Bundesliga. But anyway, DLF on attack duty with the Roam from position PI would be the first role I would experiment with.  

[32MJ32]

@kandersson FWIW I'm 5 seasons in with Inter. I play Lukaku as a DLF(S) on the right side of a partnership with an AF(A) in the left slot. The idea is to get him to pick the ball up on the right side of the pitch and cut in on his left foot, per his goal at Genoa (I assume that's the video - I can't see it but I watched the game)

I've set him to Roam From Position & Dribble More. I've also trained him with Plays With Back to Goal and Dribbles Down The Right Flank to go along with Knocks Ball Past Opponent. With all those traits active, you get a nice mixture of him holding the ball up and laying it off and taking off and running at guys. He's also been lethal with over 30 goals each year (a ton are headers from deadballs, to be fair, but still!)

My 2 cents is that PPM's play an enormous role in players behavior in this year's game. I don't think you can "make a Lukaku" without getting his PPM's right.

[zlatanera]

On 25/10/2020 at 14:06, kandersson said:

 

I imagine this might be replicated with an Attack duty plus specific Player Traits (Comes Deep to get Ball, Plays with Back to Goal, Plays One-twos, Gets Into Opposition Area), though it's worth to note neither of Haaland and Lukaku have these Traits in FM, and actually you can't have a player learn both 'Comes Deep to Get Ball' and 'Gets into Opposition Area' (or even 'Likes to try to beat Offside Trap) traits if I recall correctly.

Had to wait for the training to finish before I could confirm this but yes, you can have a player learn both Gets Into Opposition Area and Comes Deep To Get Ball. Bernardo Silva also possesses that combination, and on my FM19 save at least Gonzalo Higuaín has Tries To Beat Offside Trap and Comes Deep To Get Ball. 

I have however found it often to be the case that I can't even attempt to train Gets Into Opposition Area on natural ST. 

[Edit] I just realised on my earlier Manchester United save I also trained the Gets Into Opposition Area / Comes Deep To Get Ball combination onto Kai Havertz and Juan mata. Similar to Vargas they have good Teamwork (for CDTGB) and Finishing (GIOA). I think Acceleration helps with GIOA too, Off The Ball also.

Edited October 29, 2020 by zlatanera

[Jean0987654321]

DLF (a) or CF (a) with Drop Deep PPM usually does the trick there IMO

Edited October 28, 2020 by Jean0987654321