BlairNo.1 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Evening all. Posted a few of these last year and it appears i've reverted back to form, having the same old issues of creating chances. I've had numerous saves on FM19 already, completed around 10 years at York and took them to the Championship. Unlocked the invincible's achievement with Liverpool but yet still not being happy with my tactics. I've started a couple of other Liverpool saves since and really struggled trying to find a solid formation and style that creates plenty of chances. One of the biggest problems is getting enough goals from my striker. My preferred formation has always been the 4-1-2-3 or 4-1-4-1DM as it's known this year. So my ideal way of playing would be a quick, attacking game without sacrificing too much possession as that is one of the philosophies of Liverpool at the start. We have a brilliant team which seems to fit this formation very well but setting it up with the right roles and TI's seems to be beyond me at the minute. I want the front 3 to be the main source of goals, but equally I want them all involved in the games consistently so I'm not getting to the end of the season with my strikers average rating less than 7. When I did the invincible season it is worth noting that my top goalscorer and alway golden boot winner was Fabinho playing as a B2B midfielder getting 24 goals. That is complete madness, albeit he was my penalty taker and scored a fair few of those. Not sure whether this tells me an issue with the match engine or I just got lucky. I'll post my formation, along with TI's and my preferred 11 and would welcome any feedback or advice you may have. I know this particular formation is untested but I have created it based on what I have said above and would like opinions or potential problems before I go ahead and fire up a new save. I can bare the thought of downloading someone elses tactic but also I can't keep going through a preseason every night on the road to failure haha. Thanks in advance. It is worth pointing out that these seem to be the best roles for my current line up and also allow for me to bring Ben Woodburn back in January as he will slot in quite nicely. I need to get the best out of Salah and Mane and this seems to be the only way I could do that. The reason for selecting DLF(a) for Firmino is not just because it's his best role but it is also to try and involve him in the play more than just leaving him up top on his own whilst everyone else catches up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robot_skeleton Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 I think it looks great, but try to forget what the player's best role is and just create a system that is balanced and works on its own. The way I see it you have a goalkeeper and two centre-backs who will look to play risky passes, and a deep lying playmaker on defend who I presume won't be playing those risky passes, and except for the B2B midfielder and right wingback every one of your players will be playing those risky passes especially on positive mentality. This isn't a bad thing, but do you want it to happen? And defensively do you have problems with having a mezzala next to an attacking inside forward? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlairNo.1 Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 4 hours ago, robot_skeleton said: I think it looks great, but try to forget what the player's best role is and just create a system that is balanced and works on its own. The way I see it you have a goalkeeper and two centre-backs who will look to play risky passes, and a deep lying playmaker on defend who I presume won't be playing those risky passes, and except for the B2B midfielder and right wingback every one of your players will be playing those risky passes especially on positive mentality. This isn't a bad thing, but do you want it to happen? And defensively do you have problems with having a mezzala next to an attacking inside forward? Thanks for the reply. My thoughts around the goalkeeper and 2 ball playing defenders were to try and initiate counter attacks, but this doesn't seem to be working so well. I would like some risky passes when the opportunity is there but not so much that they trying them all the time. Would you say this could be a problem due to having my players already quite high up the pitch? Maybe I could change the goalkeeper and ball playing defenders to more rigid roles and just let them follow the TI's? I would like the moves to start with the DLP as that is what he's there for. My thinking around the Mezzala was that he would play that bit wider when the inside forward cuts in, not sure what other people's experience with that is. Perhaps having the DLP in that position would be better and then playing my current DLP as a DM instead? That way he will cover for more attacking wingbacks? Thoughts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyzer Soze Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Why not pump a quick FMT save, with only the premier league load up, to test the tactic? You can make a quick preason, and jump more quickly to competion games. No need to worries with tactic familiarity. Just an idea. About your setup, i think it could be a bit risky to have 2 players with roam from position in the midfield. You can easily loose shape, giving too much work to the DLP. I also don't like much the combo MEZ(s) with the IF(a) in the right wing, because they will try to attack the same area. About the TI's, i would problably drop the higher tempo. You are already playing in a positive mentality, and by rushing more your play you could be preventing that the players from your midfield get in time in the box to make a real impact. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlairNo.1 Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 20 minutes ago, Keyzer Soze said: Why not pump a quick FMT save, with only the premier league load up, to test the tactic? You can make a quick preason, and jump more quickly to competion games. No need to worries with tactic familiarity. Just an idea. About your setup, i think it could be a bit risky to have 2 players with roam from position in the midfield. You can easily loose shape, giving too much work to the DLP. I also don't like much the combo MEZ(s) with the IF(a) in the right wing, because they will try to attack the same area. About the TI's, i would problably drop the higher tempo. You are already playing in a positive mentality, and by rushing more your play you could be preventing that the players from your midfield get in time in the box to make a real impact. I have done that a few times but when I get good results in FMT and bring them back to FM it never seems to be the same haha. Admittedly when I use FMT i do just go on holiday and get my assistant to use my tactic. I have made a few changes which I'm going to try fro a few games. I've changed my GK to a GK(d) instead of SK. I've also changed one of my centrebacks to just CB(d). The mezzala has been changed to Carrilero. I'll see how this works for a while. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinceLombardi Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Keyzer Soze said: About your setup, i think it could be a bit risky to have 2 players with roam from position in the midfield. You can easily loose shape, giving too much work to the DLP. I use the roam from position PI liberally. Sometimes 5 or 6 players in a tactic. It's works and the shape can survive. They just roam around in their respective areas. But you need to make sure you have a couple anchor points that stay put. Typically that's the Holding Midfielder and one of the Strikers for me. Note the PI is very different than the hard coded highly roaming roles, like Roaming Playmaker. I wouldn't use them that way. The Box 2 Box Mid is more like the PI in his roaming. He stays in his area. Mez too, though he can wander a bit since "his area" is much larger. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlairNo.1 Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 Still no luck at all. I'm going to revert to FMT so I can test different things out with my tactics. I love this formation and really want to make it work but I just don't seem to be able to get my striker involved. This results in a complete lack of shots in general, and hardly any half or clear cut chances. So frustrating. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Experienced Defender Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 I think your tactic isn't bad at all, it needs just a couple of tweaks to roles/duties. For example, I would try starting with the following (and then just make small tweaks to team/player instructions as I see fit): TQ IFs RMD DLPs MEZs HB WBa BPDc CDd WBs SKs Bolded are the changes I've made to your original roles and/or duties. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlairNo.1 Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said: I think your tactic isn't bad at all, it needs just a couple of tweaks to roles/duties. For example, I would try starting with the following (and then just make small tweaks to team/player instructions as I see fit): TQ IFs RMD DLPs MEZs HB WBa BPDc CDd WBs SKs Bolded are the changes I've made to your original roles and/or duties. But what would be the reasoning for the changes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robot_skeleton Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 5 hours ago, BlairNo.1 said: I have done that a few times but when I get good results in FMT and bring them back to FM it never seems to be the same haha. Admittedly when I use FMT i do just go on holiday and get my assistant to use my tactic. I have made a few changes which I'm going to try fro a few games. I've changed my GK to a GK(d) instead of SK. I've also changed one of my centrebacks to just CB(d). The mezzala has been changed to Carrilero. I'll see how this works for a while. I think you were on the right track, simply this formation is already defensive by default, so be a little more bold with your duties in midfield, someone on attack in the midfield 3 will do wonders. Other than that, did you change your TIs? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Experienced Defender Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 2 hours ago, BlairNo.1 said: But what would be the reasoning for the changes? Let's begin with half-back. The role is great when you want someone who will drop a bit to form a virtual 3 at the back when you are on attack, thus allowing both fullbacks to bomb forward more comfortably, but at the same time the HB will take his own part in attacking build-ups in a more active way than an anchor-man does. DLP on support in the left MC position. In addition to orchestrating attacks from a deeper area, he's also a holding player that should provide defensive cover for the attacking wing-back on the left. Salah as a RMD. I think it's the best role for him when deployed on the wing, according to both his FM attribute ratings and real-life performances. Firmino as a trequartista. The role is nominally on attack duty, but has complete freedom to drop deeper, drift sidewise and do whatever he deems the best at the moment. He can be both a creator and scorer, depending on the situation. And I believe Firmino absolutely has what it takes for the role. Alternatively, you can use him on support duty as either F9, DLF or even CF. As for team instructions, maybe underlap left would be helpful, given that your formation has none in central attacking midfield, and Robertson is good at both overlapping and cutting inside. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robson 07 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Just a few suggestions. Toys to use or discard as you see fit. I find that 'positive' can play too direct for my liking sometimes. I'm always reticent to play out of defence and use a playmaker at DM. Your defenders should look for the playmaker anyway to give you the effect you want but occasionally I want my defenders to have a little more freedom in their passing choice. Yet to find much that excites about the carrilero role especially outside of the diamond formation. They just move sideways like crabs. Do you need all players to passing into space? I tend to DL and LoE in sync at least until the general flow of the tactic is working. Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlairNo.1 Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 Cheers for all the feedback guys. I'm just trying a few things on FMT now. I've tried to implement some of the things you've suggested and come up with the following which I will talk through. My reasoning may be utter nonsense but I'm sure you'll tell me if that's the case :-) So, I've gone with a SK because Alisson has very good passing and may be able to unlock teams with his trait of long throws. This actually goes against the distribute to centre backs TI I have selected so I will be removing that from the image below. I've gone for wing backs support and attack. Their mentality is set to the opposite of the player in front of them just to avoid being too predictable on one side. One ball playing defender which will be Van Dijk just because he is good enough. Not using him in that role may waste much of what he is good at. I anticipate alot of teams will defend deep and compact against me so he may be able to open them up every now and then. I've set the DM to HB to hopefully strengthen and cover in defence, plus I want the playmaker to be a bit higher up the pitch where they can have more impact. The Centre mids are still up for change but I've gone with DLPs and Mezs. Now, I'm not 100% comfortable with this for reasons I don't know, it just doesn't feel right but I could be wrong (usually am). The wide players are Salah as RMD, not only because it was suggested above but I have used him in that role in FM18 with alot of success. Having looked at the role aswell it will hopefully reduce the number of cut inside and shoot from distance scenarios. Mane IF s on the other side. Again, this is the opposite of the other wing and really the only suitable role I see for him. I've gone with DLFa for Firmino. I want to get him involved in the build up but also being in position to score goals and I feel this would work best. When selecting Treq it seemed to push him really high up and I felt there may be a big gap which would affect the link up play. The TI's will be as per the picture, minus the dist to centre backs. I'll report back after a few games on FMT. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlairNo.1 Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 I've done some further testing today and settled upon a tactic with a slight variation for home and away games. I found that my home record was very good with a quick and direct style but away from home we were pretty good with a quick game and just standard passing. This is what I'm going to start a save with over the weekend but as always I would appreciate any feedback or advice, simply to point anything out which you think might cause problems etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luizinho Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 23 hours ago, Experienced Defender said: I think your tactic isn't bad at all, it needs just a couple of tweaks to roles/duties. For example, I would try starting with the following (and then just make small tweaks to team/player instructions as I see fit): TQ IFs RMD DLPs MEZs HB WBa BPDc CDd WBs SKs Bolded are the changes I've made to your original roles and/or duties. This is the exact system I'm using with Barcelona (minus the BPD), with the Tiki-Taka style. Wanted to try get the best out of Messi and Saurez, so thought I'd use a Treq and Raumdeuter combo respectively. Good to see my logic backed up! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Experienced Defender Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Luizinho said: This is the exact system I'm using with Barcelona (minus the BPD) Honestly, I myself almost never use a BPD. The only reason I kept him here is that I was trying to make as few changes as possible to the OP's original setup Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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