Arsenal 4-2-3-1 Away suggest

[BojanVu]

Hello mates.

I starting this topic because i have problem with my tactic when playing away and i can't finde  tactic when playing away. I was trying everything but whitout result.

I am satisfied how we playing home and have good result.

This is my home tactic ( first and second SS)

When i playing away against team WBA Stoke Burnley i playing standard - fluid ( 3 and 4 SS)

Five SS is my shedule and game away.

When I playing away i havent game, my player not playing like a home game even when i playing attacking or control or standard.

Any suggest would be very well...

HOME

AWAY

 

[TottenhamBoi90]

Another away matches thread 

Both your tactics are so so narrow with no exploit left or right and no overlaps you'd be able to throw a blanket over most of your team. Anyone who crowds that area and attacks down the sides would get some joy. 

Id use some different formations in away matches learn what formations beat what but I would have more stable tis and player roles in there first. 

[BojanVu]

What you suggest how to play away?

[TottenhamBoi90]

3 minutes ago, BojanVu said:

What you suggest how to play away?

Depends what they play, 442 then close down less and drop line slightly deeper and that normally beats that with a stable possession based set up. 4411 then I'd use 4141. 

As a suggestion Monreal as a full back support and Sanchez as winger attack would help in away matches.

[Chip]

There's a few things you could do when playing away. Changing formation could be one but doesn't need to be. Things like changing your DLP-S to something like a CM-S to help support with atacks more could be a thought. 

You have 2 IF's coming in towards an AP so it will be very tight in the centre of the midfield. 

Taking off "work ball into box" could be another idea. That shout could be focusing your attacks on passing through and around the defence, against teams who sit back you're gonna need to vary your attacks. 

On the other hand if you're against a team who is committing men forward then a different approach is needed and you will need to look to exploit the space the leave when they attack. Try and make the most out of transitions in these games. 

[martplfc1]

I'm the same. Find it terribly easy at home and just never know how the team will play away, it's incredibly annoying.

Top of the league v 14th Burnley and had to rage quit. 4-1 down after an hour against a team playing with what looks like a very defensive 442 (both CMs in the DM position). 

Really can't crack it at all.

[RTHerringbone]

I really don't  like the central midfield combination. You have a BWM charging about and two playmakers moving towards the ball. There is consequently a very compressed middle, plus the issues already picked up by others above. All of those problems, plus the use of CWBs means your defence will be pulled all over the place.

I've said it before, and there is simply no need for an "Away" tactic. Arsenal have a high reputation so teams will adopt a more cautious mentality against you, but what you need to consider is if the fundamental structure of the roles and duties, plus the team instructions etc. are actually stretching defensive sides, whilst solid enough to defend the inevitable counters.

[James9]

36 minutes ago, RTHerringbone said:

I really don't  like the central midfield combination. You have a BWM charging about and two playmakers moving towards the ball. There is consequently a very compressed middle, plus the issues already picked up by others above. All of those problems, plus the use of CWBs means your defence will be pulled all over the place.

I've said it before, and there is simply no need for an "Away" tactic. Arsenal have a high reputation so teams will adopt a more cautious mentality against you, but what you need to consider is if the fundamental structure of the roles and duties, plus the team instructions etc. are actually stretching defensive sides, whilst solid enough to defend the inevitable counters.

As most of you know i play with Arsenal also and I use the 4231 because got get Mr Ozil in the game innis favourite number 10 position. 

I do face the same problems also teams will be very cautious against me and try to hit me on the counter.

I now start most of games on Standard/Structured and I push the defensive line up. If I cannot break them down I then switch to Control/Structured. By switching to Control I am telling my players to take more risk with a hope of unlocking a stubborn defence. If that does not work then Ingonto Control/Fluid and add work ball into box push higher up and play out of defence. Basically what I am trying to do is camp in their half . I also always tell my front 4 players to close down more and tackle harder. I will also set my full backs to attack so that I can control the transitions better. (Rashidi likes to call it)

[sporadicsmiles]

18 hours ago, TottenhamBoi90 said:

Both your tactics are so so narrow with no exploit left or right and no overlaps

He has an overlap on the left flank by default from this player roles, and an overload on the right flank. You do not need to tell players to look for overlaps that are naturally there.

12 hours ago, martplfc1 said:

Top of the league v 14th Burnley and had to rage quit. 4-1 down after an hour against a team playing with what looks like a very defensive 442 (both CMs in the DM position). 

 

I imagine you are going to be vulnerable to counter attacks, or anything with a bit of width to it (forwards moving into channels. Both wing backs are going to push high, leaving you exposed there. To make it worse, both central midfield players are going to be quite high (nobody is in a holding role at all). The 2 forwards in the 442 are going to be against your two CDs only if you lose the ball. You need to look at your team shape in the transition where you lose the ball, and you should think about how to provide a defensive screen in midfield.

[martplfc1]

Why is that any different to how they set up at when I'm at home (which I've checked and they set up exactly the same)?

I appreciate teams have off days but find me a real life example of a team first in the league losing 4-1 after 60 minutes to a team in 14th.

[BojanVu]

3 hours ago, RTHerringbone said:

I really don't  like the central midfield combination. You have a BWM charging about and two playmakers moving towards the ball. There is consequently a very compressed middle, plus the issues already picked up by others above. All of those problems, plus the use of CWBs means your defence will be pulled all over the place.

I've said it before, and there is simply no need for an "Away" tactic. Arsenal have a high reputation so teams will adopt a more cautious mentality against you, but what you need to consider is if the fundamental structure of the roles and duties, plus the team instructions etc. are actually stretching defensive sides, whilst solid enough to defend the inevitable counters.

Can you tell me with this my team how would you set up instruction and roles for away game?

 

 

[Rashidi]

Very quickly the fundamental issues you have are these:

1. The home system you have a central midfield pair that moves around too much, so they are not effectively protecting your defenders. Check for interceptions. They should be doing around 4-6 per game each. 

2. You also have 2 CWBs who are bombing forward with roaming instructions, that leaves you with 2 BPD, it's asking a lot even for a good side. If you want them to play it short and keep possession they still will if they midfielder drop deep enough to help them

3. Your dline is very high, too high in fact for a side that has no midfield screen

4. You are playing a 4231 with no width, but opt to use wide players why? There is no reason for it. If you want something that plays narrow then stick those 4 upfront into a narrow configuration and set the backs to wb if you want. 

5. Why are you using tight marking as a team shout? Have you ever seen a single video from me that even used that team shout. I wouldn't use it especially for an attacking fluid system

6. Since when do I play with a home and away tactic? I have never played a home and away tactic. I use the same tactic and maybe drop my defensive line and change my mentality and shape, but its always the same tactic, with the same amount of pressing in the right areas.

Your formation shows that you are not selecting the duties based on what you are trying to achieve, from what I can see you want flanking attack patterns with a lot of creativity upfront. That can be achieved but you need to change quite a few roles around. 

If you watch any of my videos you will see that I play a bit more attacking with sides that are camped and I am a lot more patient. Against sides that are better than me, I tend to be a bit more conservative and sometimes I drop my mentality and change my shape to structured. In all cases I make sure that my roles and duties are solidly planned out and I have the right players playing in support duties to help the team out in every transition. While you appear to have split your duties up interestingly among 3 of your support players, your midfield pairing is a train wreck and not a screen. You don't even need a DLP playing in a 2 in midfield. Your thrust comes from the flanks and from attack. If you need to use a DLP in central midfield then you shouldn't even be playing Attacking mentality with a maxed out D line. Your playmaker should be the AM.

 

 

 

 

[BojanVu]

55 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

Very quickly the fundamental issues you have are these:

1. The home system you have a central midfield pair that moves around too much, so they are not effectively protecting your defenders. Check for interceptions. They should be doing around 4-6 per game each. 

2. You also have 2 CWBs who are bombing forward with roaming instructions, that leaves you with 2 BPD, it's asking a lot even for a good side. If you want them to play it short and keep possession they still will if they midfielder drop deep enough to help them

3. Your dline is very high, too high in fact for a side that has no midfield screen

4. You are playing a 4231 with no width, but opt to use wide players why? There is no reason for it. If you want something that plays narrow then stick those 4 upfront into a narrow configuration and set the backs to wb if you want. 

5. Why are you using tight marking as a team shout? Have you ever seen a single video from me that even used that team shout. I wouldn't use it especially for an attacking fluid system

6. Since when do I play with a home and away tactic? I have never played a home and away tactic. I use the same tactic and maybe drop my defensive line and change my mentality and shape, but its always the same tactic, with the same amount of pressing in the right areas.

Your formation shows that you are not selecting the duties based on what you are trying to achieve, from what I can see you want flanking attack patterns with a lot of creativity upfront. That can be achieved but you need to change quite a few roles around. 

If you watch any of my videos you will see that I play a bit more attacking with sides that are camped and I am a lot more patient. Against sides that are better than me, I tend to be a bit more conservative and sometimes I drop my mentality and change my shape to structured. In all cases I make sure that my roles and duties are solidly planned out and I have the right players playing in support duties to help the team out in every transition. While you appear to have split your duties up interestingly among 3 of your support players, your midfield pairing is a train wreck and not a screen. You don't even need a DLP playing in a 2 in midfield. Your thrust comes from the flanks and from attack. If you need to use a DLP in central midfield then you shouldn't even be playing Attacking mentality with a maxed out D line. Your playmaker should be the AM.

 

 

 

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I playing home game very well .. win against City 6-0 Roma 6-0 ManUtd 5-1 i have possesion best in Liga 56 % tackling best 77%  Home games all win. my problem are away games. I playing more controled game away my D line is about normal and width is balanced. I havent game away. I lost against smaler team. I won againts ManUtd 3-1 away but smaler team are problem.  

Your judge 2.  

This is SS home game and Intc my two MC

[Rashidi]

The problem like I said is your formation and your roles and duties for it

[BojanVu]

5 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

The problem like I said is your formation and your roles and duties for it

I make some changes and won away vs Stoke..

What you think about this instruction and tactic set ? Some suggest? I asked you because you knowing better then me tactic and instruction.

[BojanVu]

 

 Thanks Rashidi for advice i found my formula for away. 

5 away  5 wins and one the big   against liverpool.